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155 Comments
- Koopa, on 10/12/2007, -20/+102It's because he needs a special type of disc, with enough space to store his vision of a spectacular 4-D game only possible on the Playstation 3 Cell Processor. Also, giant crabs with weak spots that can be attacked for massive damage require lots of memory.
.....
RIIIDDDGGEEE RAAACCERRR! - PoVRAZOR, on 10/12/2007, -6/+76MGS4 is gonna be the best cutscene ever.
(Adam C) - MouseCircus, on 10/12/2007, -14/+56Is this from that interview a few weeks back? If so, then this has already been on the front page. Not to mention the fact that the quote is taken out of context.
Here's the actual quote: "You may hear Blu-ray is huge, gigantic, 20 GB or so, but that's not really that big to us. One basic [gameplay] with HD visual and 5.1 sound takes up so much space that the capacity will become too small in no time."
To me, it sounds as if though he's saying that if he were to choose to go full out HD cinematics and 5.1 sound, that Blu-ray still wouldn't be enough. I think he's saying that it's a step towards full HD gaming, but it's not a big enough step.
Afterwards, he goes on to say the following: "We're not the ones who are saying we want HD. I'm not interested, myself, about HD at all. MGS games tend not to care about how clean the screen looks...we deliberately make the graphics look dirtier to give the atmosphere more life."
If I remember correctly, MGS4 is only going to be 1080p per Sony's request. Sounds like the guys from 1-UP are just twisting his words around. MGS4 on a dual-layer Blu-Ray disc? I doubt it. Buried. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -13/+53Wow this game is gonna have massive loading times
- thatsmyaibo, on 10/12/2007, -8/+42"Wow this game is gonna have massive loading times"
Actually loading times arent too bad because the PS3 stores a lot of info on the hard drive and loads from there. Hence Resistance's 120MB required memory notice on the back. Not a fanboy, just stating facts. - Gardenhead, on 10/12/2007, -21/+51Anyone else think this is a publicity stunt for Sony? I seem to remember something about junk sectors being put into make games look like they need more space. This could draw a few news stories about Blu-Ray, putting it in a good light.
- timpkmn89, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24He means it as in "the only reason it will be at 1080p"
- MouseCircus, on 10/12/2007, -6/+28Hey, bury me all you want. The fact still stands, though; the quote was taken out of context. He never stated that MGS4 will be on a 50GB Blu-ray disc, or that he wants 50GB Blu-ray discs.
Yes, timpkmn89, that's what i meant.
The link from the original Digg article, which hit the front page a week+ ago: http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/kojima/kojima-doesnt-care-about-hd-interested-in-wii-225925.php And the interview came from GamePro. Mag scan: http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/7018/dsc00056hj0.jpg - vhold, on 10/12/2007, -9/+27"Wow this game is gonna have massive loading times"
Well, it could just simply be HD full motion video. I bet we'll see a lot of PS3 games for the Japanese market that take advantage of that, especially RPGs. - Supaman223, on 10/12/2007, -7/+25@ Brett
Yes it does, it doesn't support the 200gb discs that are in development. - Renton, on 10/12/2007, -11/+25I wish he would just get MGS4 over with so he can start working on games for the Wii and 360 like he wanted to in the first place. You know, before the death threats.
- JayD16, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14Why is it surprising that games will take up 25gigs. The decision to go with bluray wasn't completely without merit... Blue Dragon is already on 3 DVDs. I'm not sure if they're dual layer. If not thats already 15 if they are thats already 27gigs being used.
- pronouncable, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Blue Dragon is already out in Japan on 3 discs.
- chaskell, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9It doesn't really make sense to do games in 720p/1080p with low-resolution textures. Because of this you need larger resolution textures, which do take up more space.
This isn't why 1080p is hard to do, btw. It isn't even the number of polygons. It is the number of per-pixel operations that have to take place that slow it down. All those fancy pixel shading effects are expensive when you have to do them 124,416,000 times a second (1920 * 1080 * 60hz). - MouseCircus, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12@bucknekkid
If you truly had read that forum post, you would have noticed that the topic starter has a link to a short clip from the 1UP podcast in question. If you listen to it, you hear some guy with an English accent say "...Blu-ray being too small." Then they all start talking about it, and the guy with the English accent mentions that Kojima "doesn't care much about HD...." which pretty much confirms that it's from the GameInformer interview. I don't even know how these people can pull quotes from the 1UP podcast. It's the equivalent of a bunch of guys sitting around in the living room, drinking beer and talking about video games.
Personally, I believe the GameInformer interview seeing as it's Kojima's own words, rather than some podcast. It seems like the topic creator on that forum gave it such a sensationalist title on purpose. - rockforever, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Kojima isn't doing this as some kind of stunt. Hes one of those rogue's who does what he wants, even when it pisses lots of people off. Kojima also never uses pre-animated cutscenes, unless its 2D animation or real video. My guess is that he's gonna just add something pretty cool. VR Training missions. Some kind of storyline explanation. Snake Vs. Monkey. Who knows? This is one of the most creative minds in gaming, the possibilities are endless.
- kingfelix, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11akaji: it's not?
i watched mgs2. it was o.k., but i've seen tons better movies.
the gameplay segments were great while they lasted, though. - Rayonic, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9It'll be great. There will be a 2 hour documentary about giant robot anime, and extra-long codec conversations.
- InfinitySnatch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6at supermanred:
What are you, dense? Microsoft will never release a game that can only be played on the HD-DVD drive because only a fraction of 360 owners will buy it. And Blu-ray can already hold more than 50 gigs on a triple layer disc, which kind of shatters whatever twisted notions you have of HD-DVDs being able to hold more. - mr_bako2, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8do you mean the real time cutscenes? beucae kojima has always used real time cutscenes, even on the playstation... and i dont have a problem with that.
- InfinitySnatch, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10On 5 separate discs it could.
- LordSkywalker, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9They need to just stop making videos that can be created using the in-game engine. I could understand back in the day, using FMVs, but now with the graphics as great as they are, not only does it take up unnecessary space, but takes away from the seamless experience. The worst part are videos/FMVs that aren't even CGI, but just game engine created footage converted to video. Just stick to in-game engine animated motion sequences.
- rick2k, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5IF he wants 50gb.. or even if he doesn't what's the problem?
- modifiedbears, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5japanese love their cut scenes.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+52 disks?
- chinaman1472, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7MGS games have NEVER used pre-rendered cutscenes. Go back and play them, the graphics remain the same the entire time.
Kojima has always been about the experience, you can tell from playing his games. Using FMVs really takes away from the MGS experience. - Blandyman, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8He never said he didn't want to work on MGS4. He said he didn't want to work on MGS4 for the PS3. He's argued (Kojima) at least on one occasion that MGS4 would run perfectly fine on the Xbox 360. If I find the article in question, I will post a link.
The size requirements may have changed, but again, he's arguing on the whole about Blu-Ray and HD Gaming in general... that once we take full HD visuals and 5.1 surround into account, the standard Blu-Ray disc might not be enough. That's talking about some other stuff, like lossless image formats and lossless audio formats. If developers knew what they were doing, and just used formats that looked great, not just incredible if you could zoom into 1600% of the original image's size, then it wouldn't need to take all that space up.
It's like back when BMP was used over PNG, even though the quality of PNG is the same as BMP except much smaller in size. - JayD16, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9I like that you decided to lump wanting to work on the 360 with wanting to work on the Wii. The only reason for him to go 360 would be xbox live and even then he's already done some online/networking on a Sony system with MGS:PO. He's already put a huge amount of effort into learning the ps3 with MGS4 anyway.
The Wii on the other hand has a great chance of getting Kojima love in my opinion. - Sp1k3, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6What are they using completely uncompressed 32-bit 10.1 PCM streams along with fully uncompressed DV 1080P cut-scenes? There is no need of this game of using more than a single DVD9 with decent compression. Kojima is on crack!
- InfinitySnatch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Granted Call of Duty 2 was a fine launch game, but hating on Resistance just screams ignorance and bias.
- Akaji, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9It almost sounds like you're saying that that's a bad thing.
- Spr0k3t, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Easiest way to copy protect a game is to make it so large that it's pointless to copy it.
- InfinitySnatch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Have any of you actually played through Resistance besides at the EB demo booth? It's a kickass game for a release title. 360 had nowhere near that kind of high quality game at launch.
- apoc06, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5http://www.joystiq.com/2006/11/26/resistance-17-75gb-of-garbage/
dont believe everything you hear... that rumor has been debunked. - Sagags, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5for one they wont use HD-DVD discs for gaming on the 360
second im sure they could put it on the PS3 but it will require at least 3 discs - SnowFire, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7I think Mr. Kojima's games in the past have been brilliant, but after playing snake eater and portable ops you get the impression that you spend more time watching cinematics than actually playing the game. If 20 gigs (or whatever) seems to little too Mr. Kojima, then I say this:
Just make a ***** movie and save yourself and your dev team the hassle.
I play games for enjoyment, but one thing is an experience where you actually are immersed in the game and another is just being a passive and silent witness with little interaction whatsoever.
Its a sad thing when people believe their own Marketing Hype as well. Its such a false statement to say MGS4 can "only be done on the PS3". I mean if you actually believe then that you must be living in a fantasy world.
Anybody willing to second the notion that he should just STFU and get back to work?
Anybody? - olddirtycr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Resistance was going to be 22 gigs but the burn time was too long for the developers (had to meet a deadline i guess?) and they 7 gigs out of it. Resistance is a fun game multiplayer wise and singleplayer while not mind blowing is still very good. It's funny how people judge a game before they've even touched it.
- staticneuron, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"Here's the actual quote: "You may hear Blu-ray is huge, gigantic, 20 GB or so, but that's not really that big to us. One basic [gameplay] with HD visual and 5.1 sound takes up so much space that the capacity will become too small in no time."
To me, it sounds as if though he's saying that if he were to choose to go full out HD cinematics and 5.1 sound, that Blu-ray still wouldn't be enough. I think he's saying that it's a step towards full HD gaming, but it's not a big enough step."
I am with you all the way until "you" make the "assumption" that Kojima is talking about HD cinematic scenes instead of HD textures. I have not known that many japanese devs to go on record and try to speak for each other, so it is within reason that he was referring to his own experience and POV. I have not played a game in which kojima has used cinematics. They have all been ingame. I don't agree with people trying to put words in his mouth by saying that he wants/needs the 50 gig disc but you are in a similar crowd by downplaying his concerns about space. - apoc06, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3the resistance padding wasnt a [another] lie. the padding was only 400mb total per region. 400 multiplied by the three regions and you have a lil over a gig of padding. given that the game is 17 gigs, a 15gig game w/o the padding is still larger than a dvd9.
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/11/26/resistance-17-75gb-of-garbage/
the rumor has been debunked. - HappyScrappy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4An experimental 3 later (45GB) HD-DVD was made. There is no info it was ever tested in the Xbox 360 drive.
Furthermore, there are only about 150,000 Xbox 360 HD-DVD drives in users' hands. They'd be fools to release a game for it. - HappyScrappy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Pressing a BluRay disc is not expensive and is almost certainly cheaper than two DVD9s.
- HappyScrappy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Are you talking about BR-R blanks? I'm talking about stamped discs.
Consumer prices for movies ARE assrape based. You pay $20 for a movie on DVD, meanwhile other companies send DVDs out for free as promotional material.
What you pay for a movie on a disc has nothing to do with the cost of the disc. It's the cost of the content.
And I'm excluding the cost of producing content, because the content is already factored in, you're already presuming you have 18GB of data ready to go, and what format you put it on won't affect the price of the content if you already have the content made. - HappyScrappy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4The HD-DVD drive is $199, not $99.
- FlakPyro, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5wow you guys are so full of sony hate its crazy. move on already..
- apoc06, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4go look up a sleeper gem called zone of the enders.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4They're not prerendered
- chinaman1472, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4You're also talking about porting a game to a superior system. PS2 was technically speaking, much weaker than X-Box and Gamecube. I'm pretty sure everyone and their pets know that. However, he's trying his hardest to push the PS3 to its limits, and it's not like X360 has a huge lead in the power department over PS3, especially when you compare something like PS2 to an X-Box or a GC.
- FrankieB078, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4@herrshuster
Have you forgotten that you can't play games with the HD-DVD drive for that 360? Please don't talk out of your ass. - boardo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Haven't played Resistance but CoD2 and PGR3 were both strong launch titles for the 360. Also, despite it being a love it or hate it, Perfect Dark Zero was a good multiplayer game. Too bad the single player was hit or miss.
- DarkJC, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance. "
And although the XBox is superior to the PS2 technically, that game was a really laggy port. Nice example. -
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