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193 Comments
- killamockingbrd, on 10/28/2009, -2/+74I'm confused. I was appalled watching this; yet I never think twice while mowing down innocents in GTA. Curse you Infinity Ward for making me have this moral dilemma!
- DiggityDugged, on 10/27/2009, -13/+76I applaud Infinity Ward for their brave "modern warfare" approach to war games, and refusing to shy away from very real concepts, actions and beliefs that are fueling today's wars across our planet.
- Nyaasee, on 10/28/2009, -1/+56Rated "M" for Massacre.
- SoftRobot, on 10/27/2009, -1/+54***** incoming in 3... 2... 1...
- thejwac, on 10/27/2009, -7/+58In video games, we've all "killed" plenty of innocent civilians. From Rampage to Grand Theft Auto IV, it's been a long and interesting road. I never batted an eye at doing so. Something about this feels off though. I wonder what point IW is trying to make.
- Murrabbit, on 10/28/2009, -0/+46The difference here seems that the point is to take the straight-faced roll of a terrorist gunning down civilians. In a game like GTA it's all tongue in cheek and generally killing unarmed people who are of no threat to you is sort of an optional thing - they just get in the way a lot, it's not actively encouraged. Here, though, gunning down civilians seems to be the whole point.
- brohammer5, on 10/27/2009, -3/+43I can hear it now: "Terrorists play videogames like this and they influence them to kill civilians."
:-\ - TotalHalibut, on 10/28/2009, -8/+47Real concepts such as regenerating health-bars, experience points and respawning enemies...
- inactive, on 10/28/2009, -3/+35OMG FINALLY I CAN TRAIN FOR KILLING EVERYONE AT THE LOCAL MALL JUST WHAT I NEEDED
- zimsters, on 10/28/2009, -2/+30Think it's 2 additional things that make it shocking:
1) The realism of their falling as you gun them down - check people running out of doors falling on the floor or blood spattered stairs
2) People interacting with one another saving one another. in GTA etc you'd have onlookers and people saying stuff, but here you had one person dragging the dead body of their partner and you gun them down.
Shocking. - monkeyroyal, on 10/28/2009, -1/+19This + Fox (US) / Daily Mail (UK) = public outcry & massive free publicity for Infinity Ward.
Mission complete. - inactive, on 10/28/2009, -2/+19From just reading the article I didn't think the whole killing civilians thing would be that big of a deal because, like jwac said, there have been plenty of games made throughout the years where you can kill civilians. But after watching the video I'm not so sure. Not only did killing civilians seem to be the primary objective of the level, but the degree of graphic detail (at one point the guy in the video shoots a civilian who is trying to drag an injured civilian to safety) really skeeved me out. Don't get me wrong, I'm still going to buy and/or pirate the game, but I wonder if IW is ready for the media ***** that is soon to follow the release.
- liltbrockie, on 10/28/2009, -18/+35Hey did you know the games not going to have dedicated servers?!?!?!!?!
- masterstghm, on 10/28/2009, -0/+17I've killed many civilians in Sim City 4
- inactive, on 10/28/2009, -0/+15First time in my life where I've actually regretted not paying attention in French class in high school.
- SpeedSteamBoat, on 10/28/2009, -0/+15Right, granted, but now you've got another question: What's wrong with that?
Is it creepy, disturbing even? Sure.
Is it wrong for a game to creep you out and make you think about morality?
You're right to say this isn't GTA. It's actually much deeper. It's pretty clear here that IW doesn't want you to look at the violence and laugh. They want you be uncomfortable, and they want you to think about why that is.
The fact that we are having this conversation is already evidence that it worked. This game is going to be brilliant beyond measure. - BigGooseX, on 10/28/2009, -0/+14The terrible screams in the background are haunting as well.
- Moufoo, on 10/28/2009, -1/+13I can tell you, I've met a lot of dumb people on this planet...
- inactive, on 10/28/2009, -0/+12Hilarious terror maybe.
- SpeedSteamBoat, on 10/28/2009, -5/+16Well, just because the player was shooting the civilians doesn't mean it was the objective.
Either way, if you were a terrorist then wouldn't killing civilians actually be your objective? Wouldn't the point of the scene be to disturb you?
And what about when the player shot the civilian dragging a wounded person to safety? That shooting wasn't a part of the game. It was an action the gamer took. You were actually "skeeved out" by a choice someone made in a video game. Isn't that interesting? And, of course, you won't be forced to make the same choice.
There are lots of far more disturbing and graphic scenes in movies but not one ever flips out over the latest Saw release promoting violence.
Why do people trust that movie goers can separate fantasy from reality but not gamers? - Pakivelli, on 10/28/2009, -0/+11Actually they go undercover to both good and bad. They arn't moral superheroes. They would do whatever to protect their interests. Even kill innocent civilians. But I'm not saying that they would do something like this in the game, but I'm not saying they wouldn't either. Like how the CIA backed death squads in central and south america.
CIA Atrocities.
http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/history-cia-atroc ... - BishBashRoss, on 10/28/2009, -0/+10Video games as art. Seriously, that's the most thought provoking scene in a video game I have ever seen. Good or bad? I think probably a bit of both. A real example of the power of the video game, the power of making the decisions instead of just watching them played out. It's going to be interesting to see how this is dealt with in the media.
- Gogogo111, on 10/28/2009, -8/+18You know I finally get into the multiplayer of Modern Warfare just about 3 weeks ago; And then they announce the no dedicated servers *****. What were they thinking? I stick to one server, and there's a tight knit community on there, its like the intro to cheers.
- inactive, on 10/28/2009, -0/+10um, yes they would. that's what CIA does. here's some breaking news from today
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/world/asia/28int ...
KABUL, Afghanistan — Ahmed Wali Karzai, the brother of the Afghan president and a suspected player in the country’s booming illegal opium trade, gets regular payments from the Central Intelligence Agency, and has for much of the past eight years, according to current and former American officials. - thecosmicpope, on 10/28/2009, -3/+13In GTA it is designed to feel unrealistic. In this..man, the video just looks brutal.
- furtivefella, on 10/28/2009, -4/+13But this time is seems as it is the objective. Big difference.
- SpeedSteamBoat, on 10/28/2009, -0/+9Have you considered that maybe this particular portion of the game isn't supposed to make you jump for joy?
I'm sure not every movie you have ever seen has featured nonstop excitement and laughs.
These aren't just games anymore. It is art. - MrJohnSmith, on 10/27/2009, -4/+13This will spark a controversy for sure, but I like it... Oh, and nice twist at the end.
- SpeedSteamBoat, on 10/28/2009, -0/+8Oh, right, because governments, armed forces, diplomats, senators, etc. are all completely moral and would never have a hand in abhorrent acts of violence... oh wait.
Btw, I'm pretty sure that MW2 pre-orders are about shoot through the roof. - inactive, on 10/28/2009, -3/+11The civilians in GTA are little more than copy and paste cartoons There's not much about it that's realistic. These people are running in terror and the sound of it all happening creates a much different mood. It's a minor distinction for what amounts to the same sort of thing, but I would not compare this to GTA style killing at all.
- jcrs, on 10/28/2009, -0/+8This is genius in terms of creating an emotionally immersive experience. It's also great commentary on terrorism. We are supposed to think it's terrible.
- DennisOhlson, on 10/28/2009, -0/+7Yep dugg. This seems to be the big argument here.
- chillypacman, on 10/28/2009, -0/+7In GTA you're just some random criminal, here you're part of a terrorist organization going around with the intent of killing.
Not that it is significantly worse tbh, however it still is a pretty big idfference. - pathouston22, on 10/28/2009, -2/+9Awesome, you mean I can finally shut up that TSA *****?
/Being logged and wiretapped by the NSA/CIA/FBI now. - inactive, on 10/28/2009, -3/+10This was just on the FP a little while ago. http://digg.com/gaming_news/Modern_Warfare_2_s_Con ...
Really ***** up video, though. This game is going to be getting 24 hour coverage on Fox News for a couple of days at least. - inactive, on 10/28/2009, -1/+8who says you can't? move to israel, join idf, and go on a shooting spree in gaza.
- SpeedSteamBoat, on 10/28/2009, -2/+9Better example: What about violence in movies? Why is Saving Private Ryan or Apocalypse Now allowed to depict horrors and they are regarded as masterpieces?
I think games are turning a corner. They're not just entertaining distractions anymore. They're turning into relevant art with real political messages and moral questions behind them.
This scene probably will give many people the willies. It should. It's thought provoking, and it intends to be.
What's wrong with a game that makes you think about more than how to solve a puzzle? - EvilDeadAsh, on 10/28/2009, -3/+10lol.
- mrdeadhead, on 10/28/2009, -0/+7people aren't going to consider this that "realistic" in 5 years, when you can actually choke a baby with your bare hands in Natal2.0 for the X-Box 1080.
- Ci5tm, on 10/28/2009, -6/+13Yeah I agree with you on some levels, although I found this footage a little bit heavy - IW have done a good job creating games out of current (if somewhat fictionalized) events but this just seems distasteful and unnecessary. I may seem like a hypocrite because, like others have said, I have mowed down countless civilians on games like GTA - However the nature of the killings in such games have never been quite as cold as this and the objective has rarely been to actively kill civilians. Making civilians the enemy/targets is a slightly dodgy move IMO.
- SpeedSteamBoat, on 10/28/2009, -0/+7Wow, what the *****, man?
- inactive, on 10/28/2009, -0/+6Well I disagree. I'm not saying it's bad and should be banned, but I found it rather unexpected and fairly creepy in tone.
- grantmoore3d, on 10/28/2009, -0/+6Leaving my opinion on the morality of this level aside - I find it amazing that IW is able to create a game experience which somehow manages to speak to people enough that they would be bothered by the circumstances within the game.
- goomba323, on 10/28/2009, -2/+8Well technically, we've been fighting a war in Iraq/Afghanistan for 8 years now. So that means kids were 10-11 years old when we killed their parents, so now they've become our new enemies, so isn't that basically the same thing as "respawning"??
- inactive, on 10/28/2009, -1/+7@SpeedSteamBoat: it was a choice made by a player in a video game yes, but have you ever played other video games? The civilian dragging the injured civilian to safety isn't standard computer AI, especially for NPCs. It was a scripted scene where the civilian dragged the injured civilian right past you as you happened by with a gun, after you and your compatriots had just opened fire on a crowd of unarmed civilians. There are other scripted parts of that level if you watch the video again, such as injured civilians trying to crawl away from you as only once you pass a certain part of the level, which certainly puts the suggestion of shooting civilians on the table. Of course you could choose not to shoot anyone while playing that part of the game, but that raises the question why have that part be playable v. a cut scene?
And to your point about movie scenes: I agree there are countless more disturbing movie scenes than what was shown in that MW2 video, but the difference between movies and video games is that you have control of a character's actions in a video game. I never really cared about civilian casualties in other games like GTA because a lot of it was tongue-in-cheek. And even with other FPSes you're killing other players, but they are also trying to eliminate you in a competitive format. Not having played MW2 yet, I can't say if there is a larger context that provides extenuating circumstances, but you can't even admit that watching that video feels just slightly off? Infinity Ward does a great job programming and maximizing their graphics engines, so even the NPCs look very real, and then your character is given a gun and placed in the middle of those NPCs.
and lastly, I never suggested that movie goers can separate fantasy from reality or that anyone who plays this game is going to go somewhere and shoot up an airport. I even stated that I'm still going to play this game regardless because it looks awesome, but that scene didn't feel quite right to me and, according to the number of people who dugg jwac's orginal comment, 20 other people as well. - johnsmith3210, on 10/28/2009, -1/+7Because sometimes you wanna go where everybody knows your name? Am I right? Oh... and they're all so glad you came.
- bills534, on 10/28/2009, -1/+6boo hoo :'(
- Foenetik, on 10/28/2009, -2/+7it's "their" you ***** simpleton. also, have fun sucking that corporate *****.
- SpeedSteamBoat, on 10/28/2009, -1/+6Frigg is right. It is creepy, and it's supposed to be.
Cheers to IW for making people think about the violence present in video games and other media. -
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