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- LordSkywalker, on 10/12/2007, -9/+52Answer: How the PS3 got to be $600.
Question: What is Sony's overconfidence and distorted view of reality. - aplardi, on 10/12/2007, -10/+37How it happened? Simple, it started with the PlayStation 2.
The PlayStation 1 was a runaway hit, after that Sony got over confident and decided to take risks. With the PlayStation 2 they made several batches with cheap PSU%u2019s and DVD-Rom drives. They messed over customers by claiming it wasn't a widespread problem, until the customers had to file a class action lawsuit, and scare the junk out of Sony so they would fix them for free. They later learned and of course released a smaller revision of the PlayStation 2 that to date has little problems, but regardless that should have been the first product. They also messed over everyone who bought the Sony Hard Drive and Final Fantasy XI by removing the capability from newer ones, and jacking up the price to fix an old one to the point where either way the customer loses out.
But this is where Sony really lost it, they figured that if they keep making products that break, people will have to buy new ones, seeing as not everyone knew that for a few months they were obligated to fix them for free. Sony has a big head, they lost all the Music Format wars, and when they helped DVD become a success, took hold of a good thing like the PlayStation 2 and made it their stronghold. They thought they had become gods.
And now, years later, rather than treating customers with respect like Microsoft's Gaming Department and Nintendo do, they refer to them as slaves, who "will buy" their product and "will want to get a second job" for it. Yes, we will get second jobs when financially this world is so hard as it is, so we can get a game console that is more than likely to break down in a year or so, is greatly crippled if we don%u2019t pony up the extra 100 dollars, and play Final Fantasy 31, Ratchet and Clank 14, and Gran-No Collision Detection or Online-Turismo 5.
WHERE CAN I GET IN LINE?
Andrew Lardi - devindotcom, on 10/12/2007, -5/+26http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=blu-ray+player&btnG=Search
From some angles the PS3 is an incredible bargain... not my angle personally but there you go. They built their machine to a 2008 standard; unfortunately it's still 2006. - breakneckridge, on 10/12/2007, -7/+27They can set their blu-ray stand alone players at $100,000 and then stuff it into a PS3 that sells for $50,000 and then say "You're getting a great bargain!" but it doesn't make it true.
- SpeedyG, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20The ONLY other consoles in history with a starting price higher than $400 are the Neo Geo and the 3DO. The last two Playstations came out at a price of $300. Now they're asking for up to $600.
Sony's Betamax format didn't work, because they were too stubborn about the use of the format. Sony's Minidisk format didn't work, because they were too stubborn about the use of the format. Sony's UMD format didn't work, because they were too stubborn about the use of the format.
Sony's famous DRM system (read: rootkit) was a disaster, and an obvious example of which divisions of Sony wear the pants in the family. (Hint: it's not the ones actually developing the products for sale.)
Sure, I can't see into the future, but I CAN see into the past, and Sony is doing a whole mountain of things that have been spectacular failures in the past, all at the same time with the PS3. For them to not be the least bit concerned is complete and total lunacy. - Spastastic, on 10/12/2007, -4/+21mainly because they're trying to make the ps3 a trojan horse for blu-ray. I like what microsoft done, which is at least give you a choice if you want to buy a hd-dvd player.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16I think the PS3 would be a lot more successful when HDTVs become the standard, but right now they arte placing overpriced bleeding-edge parts in the machine which obviously jacks up the price beyond Consumer standards at this moment in time.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+20Is anyone planning on buying one of these things? Honestly.. I can't even imagine paying that kind of money for a console that will last a couple years... I think the Wii is brilliant, tho I've never been much of a Nintendo fan.
- Akyan, on 10/12/2007, -4/+18I think that it is completely possible for the PS3 to be a complete dead horse, or it could be completely fine. The problem is they are hinging the success of there "games" console on the format which is completely unproven, and yet to show itself to be amenable to the consumers. Under the circumstances in which Blu-Ray takes off and becomes the format of choice then the PS3 will be a great price, but I mean heaven forbid it completely flops then Sony will be right in the crap.
- tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -5/+18What IS unprecedented is a $600 console that's a success.
- aplardi, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15The difference is that the WMP capability doesn't jack up the price 300 extra dollars, and it is actually get a lot of use.
- commongiga, on 10/12/2007, -7/+18and the neo-geo fell on it's face, no?
- tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14I don't think no-one will buy one, and I'm fairly sure the PS3 will sell out the first 6 million fairly easily.
As the article said, though, Sony have invested an enormous sum of money in it, and 6 million sales won't take them into profit - especially if people are buying them as blu-ray players and not a games console. What Sony need is consistent sales right to the end of the life of this generation, much like the PS2 has achieved. A surge at the beginning then very little then onwards won't be of much use to them.
I think you'll see more 30 somethings playing the Wii than you realise, for the virtual console if nothing else. It was 30 somethings that were playing Mario and so on back in the 80's and many will find it hard to resist being able to play them again. If anything, I'd say Zelda & Mario appeals MORE to the over 20's than it does to those under 20, who have been brought up on WWII sims and so on.
Apparently GTA will be out on 360 & PS3 simultaneously in October 07. There will be exclusive episodic content for the 360 version, though nothing has been annouced for the PS3 version yet (that's not to say there won't be anything). - tapo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11I'm sorry, but when you're comparing Microsoft and Sony in the "learn and steal fast" category, Microsoft isn't exactly an angel there.
- rumor, on 10/12/2007, -6/+16sakuraz: and what makes us mere mortals and companies more than that?
- aplardi, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15Microsoft's Gaming department actually has earned a great reputation, and in turn so has Peter Moore. You can hate all you want but they have done a good job in the US Market in the area of tech support, making a user accessible online interface, quality hardware, and introducing features like the Hard Drive (1st Gen Xbox) without charging an arm and a leg more.
- asmodeus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11VMWare isn't an emulator, and the PS3 isn't using an x86 CPU. So if you can get Windows running on it, it will be through an x86 PC emulator on Linux, which wouldn't really be very fun to use, or useful for anything except basic business type software.
- Trjn, on 10/12/2007, -6/+15That's all fine and dandy. But I just want a machine that plays games, call it a toy if you like, but when I'm buying a console, it's going to be because of the games available on it.
I don't need all these extra features, compare the Nintendo DS with the Sony PSP, the PSP can do a million and one things, but when it comes to the primary focus, the DS is superior (argue all you like on this one people, but IMO Metroid, Maro Kart, New Mario and many many more > GTA and Lumines), thus the DS is winning.
The best consoles are the ones with the best games, not the ones that can wash your dishes, shave your ass and clip your dog's claws as well as have a few games.
I refuse to pay a premium for things that I'm not going to use, although I will pay a premium for a console that has numerous excellent exclusive games. If the PS3 ends up having both, great, but without the games, I know I won't be buying it, and neither will a lot of gamers I know. - zetsurin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10I would really love it if people stopped personifying corporations via the use of the word CARE. The only thing Sony, Nintendo AND Microsoft require is MONEY, and they will and should do just whatever it takes to get that. And that is not evil or wrong.
- Boondoggle, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9It depends on how you measure success. The Blu-ray / HD-DVD issue is going to be a hard fight, and honestly trying to force the issue by bundling it with an expensive , late console does not seem like a winning strategy.
I believe that Sony is going to give up some market-share. That doesn't mean that they won't sell lots of consoles though, and make lots of money over time. - tapo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8"Xbox 360 use a IBM CPU too and it's run windows, I see no problem here, within or without a x86 emulator"
Alright, just because they're both made by IBM does *not* make them the same processor. The Cell and the Xenon are two completely different beasts.
Secondly, the Xbox 360 does not run Windows, it runs a kernel based slightly off of Windows 2000, but with an OS that's designed to fit in 4 MB of flash ROM because the core 360 lacks a HD.
Unless someone manages to write an x86 emulator for the Cell, then you're not gonna run Windows on it. Even if you could get that running, you couldn't run games on it, since 3D games do not do well under emulation. Running Windows on VirtualPC for Mac (a PPC to x86 emulator) already shows how slow this can be.
And even if you got *that* running, you'd still need 3D card drivers.
You're gonna be running Linux on that machine. There's no way in hell Windows will work. - ByteGuerilla, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12"Ive seen video of Assassins Creed. It blows away xbox 360 in terms of photo realism. Its like looking at a CGI movie."
Funny, 'cause there are no Assassins' Creed videos out rendered on the PS3... the ones floating around the 'Net (I think Gamespot has them too) are CGI renders.
"There is a reason Sony is very confident. Look at the games!"
What games? Sony has had nothing to show us... E3 told us that much. - replica, on 10/12/2007, -7/+15Yes, I have seen the games. The PS3 games DO NOT look better than the 360. No way.
- BugMeNot2, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12"What if I (ONLY) want a console, (NOT!) a Blueray player?"
Then don't buy a PS3. Simple as that.
Kutaragi says that the PS3 is not just a game console, but rather a computer entertainment system. - spectre_25gt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7No, he's going to blame sony for being so controlling over their formats that they ended up killing it. I hate seeing Betamax spread all over these comments too, but it's referenced often because it's a very good example of Sony not playing the market well. Personally, I think mini-disc is a better example, however.
- dharm, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10"did someone say BETAMAX?"
in every single bluray or ps3 thread, someone makes that comment...
***** betamax, it was a superior media back in the day, which just never caught on... you gonna ***** on sony cause they came up with a new idea that produced superior media than previously existed? - BruceCLin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Lol. Yes, they did say that.
Let's pretend that the technology is advance enough to last 10 years. Their console's laser head seems to last only 2~3 years. - Leo55, on 10/12/2007, -7/+13PS3 is basically a Xbox 360 with wii-mote.
Microsoft got a strong control over the PC market...
That is their advantage.
Nintendo got their Wii games which can't be played on any other consoles!
That is Nintendo's advantage.
Sony's advantage?
They learn and steal fast.
Good luck Sony.
I am going to the Wii 360 camp.
It is nicer there. - navster15, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9The 360 put up an amazing showing graphics wise at E3. I need only to point at Mass Effect as having the most polished in game graphics for any console on the show floor. Sure the PS3 is more powerful, and the graphics will look better in time, but what developers are squeezing out of the 360 puts Sony to shame.
- tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10You mean like Tekken 6 or the Gran Turismo that's not even a real game or the one that's based on actual Japanese wars (remember the war with giant crabs? me neither) that you can't even see because they stay off-screen?
Every console has its turkeys, but if they're the games you're showing off to the world proudly, I wouldn't be very confident about it. Look beyond the graphics... There wasn't much on show to be impressed about. - breakneckridge, on 10/12/2007, -16/+21"rather than treating customers with respect like Microsoft's Gaming Department..."
Wow, that's some quality stuff you're smoking. - tastypastry, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Didn't they say that the PS3 would have like a 10 year life span.
- televisible, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6It is just not a hip thingy to complain to Apple.
- hmmm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Bad comparison.
Neo-Geo was made for a niche market of gamers that wanted the best (at the time) in gaming technology and could afford it.
PS3 is supposed to be a console for the mass market but suddenly, the everyday gamer might not be able to afford it. - zetsurin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7And what did the Neo Geo have in common with a PS3 apart from the fact that it's expensive, that contributed to it's downfall? Pretty much nothing. You'll have to come up with more similarities than that and still you won't have any clue as to what the future actually holds.
- drummer87dude, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Why doesn't anyone bash Apple for their 60GB iPod being $399??? That much money just for something that plays audio and video on a small ass screen? Yet, people still buy it...
- Wingman007, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7"they know that their all important target audience - 20 - 40 year olds that have disposable income aren't really going to care if it's $200 or $600."
20 to 40 year olds are now an "all important" audience? Yes, there has been quite a bit of expansion into that age range, especially over the last generation, but the average age is still just a little bit lower. Also, I don't care how old you are, a $600 game console is expensive. If anything, age should teach people the value of a dollar. Not to be cliched or anything. - honavery, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5The gamers for Neo-Geo were also $120.
- samdu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4It's easy to question a lot of things about the PS3. But the timing of the price announcement isn't one of them. While others have noted that pricing is usually reserved for later in the cycle (closer to release), Sony was smart to release the price of the PS3 at E3 this year. You can already see the shock wearing off. By the time the unit ships, far fewer people will be complaining about the price. It's the nature of people to forgive and forget over time. If Sony had released the price information closer to launch, the backlash would have gone well into the release of the machine. As it stands, sticker shock will have worn off to a certain extent (not completely, of course).
- sakuraz, on 10/12/2007, -17/+21it's not overconfidence and distorted view of reality.
it's just a little choice that will lead them to either closer to their doom or their rebirth.
it's really too early for mortals like us to predict what will reshape the future of
*movie industry
*game industry
*HDTV industry
with just a little view that it's too expensive.
when PS2 was released in japan, people thought it was expensive too. - millixaw, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I'm not sure about Sony but I know from personal experience that Microsoft Games Studios has some great tech support over the phone. They're actually polite and solve problems. I don't think they're from India, either.
- millixaw, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Unlike the price of CPUs, disc drives drop rapidly in price even as the technology gets better. Case in point, you can now buy a high-quality 16x DL DVD plus/-RW drive for about $30. About two years ago, you would pay $300 or so for a 2x DVD-R or DVD-plus R drive (only one or the other). What this means is that PS3 at first will cost less than a stand-alone Blu-Ray player, but not for long.
In about a year's time, the Blu-Ray disc drive price will drop, and set-top players will cost in the ~$200 and less range. The PS3 price will still be high because of the cost of its other components, mainly the Cell processor.
The only way consumers are going to win in the Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD war is when they start to release players that can read both discs. Sorta like the DVD-R and DVD-plus-R problem. - tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9Your choice is entirely yours, but a couple of points...
Firstly, the PS3 will be £425 in the UK, no core console available.
Secondly, the premium xbox 360 is £280. I would call £150 a fairly significant difference.
Thirdly, the only game you mentioned that is exclusive to Sony is Gran Turismo. Is that worth £150 to you? To me it'd make more sense to get an xbox for your games if you're going to get a separate HD player anyway.
I can't see anyone except the most hardcore of hardcore getting an xbox & ps3. I think many people will get one of those plus Wii though. - sanza, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5What Sony fails to understand is that winning the console wars is not about what machine can do the most, it's about what machine can do the most for the least amount of money. And they've been here before and have seen how this scenario plays out. PS1's first sold for $299.00 while the 'unbelievable' 3DO sold for $699.95. Need I mention who won that war? Should I mention the Neo-Geo ($649.99)?
Anyone can design and build a top of the line machine if they don't worry about the final cost. The trick is to balance the cost and the power to create an affordable gaming system. High End sounds like a great selling point but it's always on the Low End of the selling curve.
Just the fact that the public is eating up the all the information it can about the Nintendo Wii should be making Sony shake in their boots, but they've been on top for so long that they just don't see it. Perhaps if the system sits on the shelves they'll drop the price to a more reasonable dollar amount and manage to get their installed user base up, but I fear it's going to take a while.
A year or so ago I thought that Nintendo was going the way of Atari, but I was wrong. Nintendo never forgot that the majority of people buying their systems are not CEO's and such -- They are average people with average incomes. - millixaw, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4MGS4? Final Fantasy 13? Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn. I hope you got more than that, Sony.
- Agret, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7Wii all the way for me.
- triplehelix, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7even just for game media, 50 gigs of storage unleashes a lot of restraints put on game developers.
and nobody is looking at the positives of having an all in one unit as opposed to MS's add on drive.
sure people say but if i just want to play games not watch hi def movies it's a waste. i disagree. i think in the long run it may limit games for the 360. developers will have to develop for the lowest common denominator for that platform, which will be the dvd only consoles, where the PS3 will all have the expanded drive. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4The post description is lifted from my writeup at Joystiq.com. It covers David Cole's look at the PS3's price, Sony's consumer electronics model for pricing, last year's 360 eBay auctions and why Sony needs to show us how Blu-ray helps gaming.
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/27/a-look-at-how-the-ps3-got-to-be-600/ - DocDEB, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4The success (or failure) of BlueRay and the PS3 are inextricably linked. If BlueRay can get to market with more media before November-December AND if BlueRay can rapidly become the high volume storage solution in the PC market then the cost of the PS3 will look acceptable. Sony has to push the $600 version because that is the version with digital video out and the only version that can really take advantage of BlueRay. Me thinks Sony has boxed themselves into a corner that may be very difficult to get out of.
- hchaudh1, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6The PS3 is expensive. No doubt about that. I am "planning" to buy one for its processor and MGS4. And the Linux that's supposed to come out of the box. If they fulfill what they said about the performance of the cell processor, I will buy it. Good games will come along as studios start to take advantage of the power of the PS3.
I have friends who have purchased watches, or cameras, cell phones etc. that are way more than $600. If you really want it, I guess its worth it. -
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