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ESRB Now Censoring the Internet

destructoid.com — The ESRB has been found contacting a gaming site asking them to remove certain Dark Sector trailers months after they've already been released because of the "excessive or offensive content" found within. Are you starting to notice a pattern, too? Wanna fight back? Check the "Gamers For Gaming" link on the page.

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  • GodLen, on 10/11/2007, -6/+26ESRB: "Hey! Where you guys talking about that game Manhunter? A game that has excessive and offensive content?"
    Gamer: "Maybe..."
    ESRB: Bang!
  • iluvatar, on 10/11/2007, -24/+3Look guys, I know a lot of you feel very strongly about what the ESRB has been doing lately, but I need to make something very clear:

    --> This is not censorship
    • iluvatar, on 10/11/2007, -7/+1ok, digg is totally botching up my posts today. Bury at will.
    • jdaniel284, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Define censorship. Be careful how you define it though, or you might be eating some words.
    • acdcfanbill, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2When collusion between a ratings board and retailers results in a specific rating not being sold in most stores, then I would consider it censorship.
  • iluvatar, on 10/11/2007, -19/+6Ok wow. Digg totally screwed up my post, so let me complete it before I get buried into oblivion:

    This is not censorship... (at least not in the way most people have been talking about it) BECAUSE

    This is not a violation of anyone's first amendment rights. It's only a violation if the government does it, or is involved in it. The ESRB is a privately owned organization going after other privately owned organizations. If you don't like what they do, then let them know. Write to them; this isn't the RIAA we're dealing with, they might just listen to you. If all else fails, organize a boycott. We still have control over the situation.

    What I'm worried about is what happens when we do lose control. If we don't support the ESRB and work with them then it will be declared ineffectual at which point you WILL start to see censorship. I think the penny-arcade guys tell it best: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/10/01
    • Stonedonkey, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4The ESRB is attempting to "gate" explicit content so that it can't be viewed by minors. The site in question does not have a system to gate its content. They are asking the site to remove the content. The ESRB instituted this policy about a year and a half ago. It's not censorship -- its a ratings board trying to create a bulwark against "family values" litigation. By presenting themselves as responsible screeners, they can avoid getting sued by families and special interest groups. It makes the industry as whole look more responsible.

      But why should I point that out when the headline is just so ***** exciting.
    • geekfrom99, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2boycott what? video games? fat chance man
    • theragu40, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2No one means censorship in the legal sense. If you don't restrict the definition of censorship to the legal term, then this clearly *is* censorship.

      Also, you're wrong that you can only have your first amendment rights violated by the government.

      Furthermore, we *don't* have control over the situation. That's the issue. The publishers are going to do what the ESRB says, because stores won't sell unrated games, and because the ESRB has the power to do things like they did to Manhunt 2.
      • DoctaStooge, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1and to think that the game is only going to get more press because of this...
    • Whackly, on 10/11/2007, -4/+0If I'm stupid please educate me but I really don't know why anyone would rail against the ESRB. I watched the Dark Sector trailer involved. It is pretty graphic. Trailers are generally understood to be approved for all audiences (thanks to the movie industry and the cute little green screen before each one). I didn't see any evidence that they were asking for the game to be changed. Seems like they were only asking that the trailer be a little less.... nasty.

      In general isn't railing against the ESRB like peeing on your own feet anyway? When some kid shoots up a school and investigators find he had a copy of San Andreas or whatever we know that somebody will try to blame this kids violent behavior on his exposure to the game. I think there's some pretty clear arguments based on research and on pure freedom to be made that trying to blame real life violence on violent video games is a bunch of crap. However, the people who want to point the blame will point the blame. And they are the people with power. An fear mongering raises ratings so the media will jump on it like reporters on a school shooting... er... literally.

      In those instances isn't the ESRB the savior? If some 9 year old is playing a game rated and clearly labelled for Teens, 17 year olds, or adults only then the content of the game is irrelevant. The affect the game had on the kid is irrelevant. The only relevant fact, at that point, is "Why in all holy f*** were that kid's parent allowing him to play a game that is clearly inappropriate for him?" Or "WTF was the Wal-Mart cashier thinking selling this game to this kid and why is this kid allowed to buy and play games without his parents looking in to what he's up to?"

      Isn't the ESRB really doing us all a favor? Well, I guess, if you're a 13 year old who wants to play Manhunt 2 they probably aren't. But good for them. Your 13 year old punk ass doesn't need to be playing Manhunt 2. Why don't you just go back to screaming idiotic homophobic and racist platitudes after every round of HALO 2.
    • Analblazzer, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0I agree ESRB is better than BUSH ADMIN
      but if the UK can ban a game like manhunt before it even comes out there is something wrong
      It all comes back to paranoia and control
      The cowboys keep the sheep in fear with propaganda like this
      The simple idea out there of a game being banned in multiple countries makes people afraid for their kids
      even if the game isn't out yet or even as violent as other forms of media
      its called an example
      and its something you never want to be
      especially if you created the game and want to sell it to rabid fans
      The only hope is enough good stuff gets through so we are not stuck with poor parenting as a reason not to play manhunt
      As the old giesers who are currently holding all the keys die off
      Doors will open for every genre
      id like to see more violent games to be honest-most stuff is so watered down its not even fun
      And tell me sex games need to go mainstream
      with big budgets and real girls
      Somebody needs to get Vivid and Rockstar making a real offensive game
      tons of them flooding the market
      to the point where tons of stuff gets through and one or two don't
      thats how porn went mainstream
      I don't think too many people subscribe to websites anymore and very few buy dvds
      porn needs to embrace the blue ray and start making some fetish freaky hardcore games with gratuitous nudity and sex
      forget violence its not sexy anymore!
  • Limezor, on 10/11/2007, -8/+73ESRB should stick to what they're good at: nothing.
  • wild, on 10/11/2007, -8/+29From what i understand, the ESRB told the pubiser they were too mature, and so the publisher took the steps of requesting their removal.

    The ESRB are not the bad guys. Because they exist, you don't have government regulations on video games. Just because they rated Manhunt AO isn't a reason to turn on them.
    • joklem, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9Exactly. The real problem with Manhunt 2 isn't the game being AO (I heard it really does deserve it), it's shops that will not sell it, and Nintendo/Sony (and Microsoft?) not allowing them to run on their consoles.
      • merreborn, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3You can thank consumers for that. If walmart stocked AO games, a bunch of "think of the children" groups would go nuts. Similarly, Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft don't want their console to become "The one with the bad testicle-ripping game".

        If this country weren't filled with a bunch of prudes that insist on forcing their politics on the retail sector, we'd be just a little more free.
    • theragu40, on 10/11/2007, -2/+14Rating the game AO wouldn't be such a big ***** deal if the AO rating didn't already carry the stigma that it does. But do you honestly believe that the ESRB didn't know that Nintendo and Sony don't allow AO games on their systems? For Christ's sake, of course they did. That's why people are pissed: because giving a game a rating that you know will cause it to have to undergo changes in order for it to be released is censorship by proxy. Same goes for pressuring publishers into removing trailers that have been up for months. And that's *****.
      • merreborn, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1"giving a game a rating that you know will cause it to have to undergo changes in order for it to be released is censorship by proxy"

        The game deserved the AO. Why the hell should they give it anything less?
        If you think the consequences of giving Manhunt 2 an AO were bad, the backlash had it been given an M that it didn't deserve could very well pave the way for the dissolution of the ESRB, and its replacement with something far worse.
        • theragu40, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I'm sure it deserves an AO. I don't want it getting into the hands of minors. But for crying out loud, you already aren't supposed to get M rated games as a minor, so what's the difference? Perhaps the issue is more with Nintendo and Sony, but their policies are already laid in stone. It was the ESRB that had the leeway to give this game a rating that would either allow it to sell to a limited audience (M rated), or be effectively not sellable (AO rated). I am just disappointed that they chose the latter, considering they certainly knew the consequences of such an action.
    • joklem, on 10/11/2007, -2/+10And giving a lower rating than it deserves would be good because.....?

      I want Manhunt 2 as much as the next guy (and as violent as it is right now), but this is hardly ESRB's fault. Shops and Sony/Nintendo should realise that the difference of age between M and AO is one year, and they could actually, you know, not sell it to minors.
    • jivemasta, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4 Why don't they just treat AO games like porn? Keep it behind the counter, and require an ID. Problem solved.
      The part I don't get is why the console makers decide that AO content can't be played on their consoles. That just makes them more money.
      The makers of manhunt 2 should just go rogue and release the game for free, open source, and for PC. That way the ESRB can't rate it, and we all get the game we want. It's not like they are going to make any money off of it just sitting on a harddirve locked in a safe immune to minors.
      • dudefather, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2hey rockstar, mind releasing the game you just spend money and time developing for free? it will prove a vague point!

        if rockstar wanted to express themselves artistically through the medium of ultra-violence, they would have released the game freely for the PC, but since, like all commercial games companies, they also wanted to make money, they decided to release it for ps2 and wii, and in doing so had to follow the guidelines of both the console manufacturers and the ratings boards, this was all of course, a decision made by the developers who wanted to sell a product.
    • bIuebonics, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8really though, what's the big deal about the game getting an AO rating? AO's 18+; MA is 17+. amazing, a whole year. who cares if a store doesn't sell it, if you're 18 you can just as well order it online.
      • Shaflugi, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Yeah, except you won't be able to get it on Wii or PS2. Which is all it's being made for, isn't it?
    • CyberNigma, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1Wild is right.

      Some of you aren't really thinking straight. The publishers themselves admitted it was targeting an adult audience and that they (the adults) should make their own decisions. As far as not rating it AO because it screws distribution, well you can also say that about movies rated XXX. Most theatres won't show them because of that rating. Should they lower it to R or PG to make it fair for them to be shown in all theatres? It's not the fault of the theatres or stores as well. Companies and people censor all the time and have every right to. It's only the government that you don't want to be able to censor. If you don't want your game to be adult's only, don't make an adult's only game.. brilliant...

      I'd like to see some of you complain to Regal or AMC about not showing XXX movies.
    • Osjpr, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1"The ESRB are not the bad guys. Because they exist, you don't have government regulations on video games. Just because they rated Manhunt AO isn't a reason to turn on them."

      You people are ABSOLUTELY CLUELESS about the ESRB. The only difference between AO and Mature is ONE YEAR of age. So rating all AO content Mature has neglible significance.
  • meshman, on 10/11/2007, -8/+3Would it kill them to mention what the ESRB is? (yes, I (now) know what it is)
  • HawkeyeMatt, on 10/11/2007, -8/+32***** the ESRB
    • oxdeltaxo, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10***** censorship period.
    • gDubz, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2Wow, you're an idiot.

      Read:
      ESA's programs include:

      * Presenting the annual E³ (Electronic Entertainment Expo)
      * Supporting the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB)
    • evilevil, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1you mean

      ***** THE ESRB!!!
  • halosniper7, on 10/11/2007, -4/+2i'd rather it be ***** the esrb. The people who do a service to people can have capital letters.

    i forget what it stands for anyway.
  • Kohath, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6How do you "fight back" against someone "asking"? How dare they "ask"!!? They better stop it or we'll "ask" them to do something in return!
  • realwx, on 10/11/2007, -4/+1F*ck ESRB and their stupid commercials.
  • DrIce926, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6I've always thought that the ESRB does do a good service to parents who DO care about what their six-year old children play.

    I honestly, however, had no idea that they had this much power. Are they going to try to moderate the internets? All of them?
    • celkin, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0Im in ur internets, censoring ur game trailorz.
  • fober, on 10/11/2007, -5/+3This is Ludacris!

    http://www.daveyd.com/ludacris97.jpg
  • MikeWanDo, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1A quote from one of the comments from RonW: "Here's a bit more info - Since we pulled the trailers, we contacted the ESRB to ask why. They sent us back a semi-canned response. More info here: http://news.filefront.com/esrb-responds-to-dark-sector-trailer-removal-requests/ "
  • macweirdo42, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4"Excessive or offensive content"? What the hell is excessive content? I get the concept of offensive content, sure, but "excessive content" makes no sense to me.
  • ShoeString73, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2who exactly makes up the ESRB? Is there a set board of people who convene on this stuff regularly or is it one or two people making these decisions? just curious.
  • Utils, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3This is what you call a slippery slope.
  • Azdak, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4The only thing worse than the ESRB's behavior is the stunningly wooden-looking gameplay in that trailer! What a disappointment.
  • masona3, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1The ESRB can't force anyone to take anything down from their website. End of story. End of thread.
  • DarkDragon, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Evil organizations used to be TLAs (Three Letter Agencies: NSA, CIA, FBI, etc..) but recently the FLAs have become pure evil (ESRB, RIAA, MPAA etc...)
  • DawningImage, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Video games are violent? What?
    Seriously, people. At least you can see what your getting into before purchase. I don't understand censoring that.
  • TH3W1R3D, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5get the ***** off my internetz
  • Razster, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1What they're doing is like trying to prevent kids from viewing porn on the Internet... there are thousands of gaming sites with that trailer.
  • zanbato, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0I'm sorry if the ESRB doing what it can to make the government believe they don't need to impose their own rules on video game content has been misconstrued by you people as an attempt to censor the internet. Without the ESRB there would be government regulations on games, and with the current government that would mean no Manhunt, no GTA, possibly even no Halo 3. So think about it for a minute before you get all pissed off at them for making a request.
  • TheEditor1, on 10/11/2007, -3/+1Want some real information about the ESRB. Its is the logical extension of Tippy Gore's crusade about violent video games. Basically another moonbat organization that wants people to do what they say and not what they do.

    On another note, I find it disgusting and sad that liberals and their blog spammers have recently taken over digg completely. The majority of the front page stories in the last 24 hours have been thinkprogress.org, rawstory.com, crooksandliars.com and other liberal sponsor and funded blogs and the comments that have been left on the story items show me that people in the left are not even capable of independent thinking and using their own free will.

    For the conservatives that read digg, there is salvation on the horizon, I can't say what yet, but it is coming and it will bury the moonbat left with concrete evidence and rock solid information.

    Watch for it and join the discussion backed by truth and not paid bloggers!!
    • mojama, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2what are you on about?
    • BabyWookie, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2What's a "moonbat"? No, seriously, are you LGF fruitcakes organizing for a massive Digg gaming campaign or what? How sad. It won't work though.
  • Analblazzer, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1GAMERS ABROAD
    No matter what there will always be censorship as long as their little kids with overbearing parents
    Wouldn't it be worse if it was imposed by the bush administration than a privately owned company made specifically for this type of media?
    But on the other hand i bet Americas Army would be rate E for Everyone!
    Manhunt is tame compared to some movies that get released like Shrek 3
    I almost killed somebody walking out of that piece of *****!
  • Majora26, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Moderating the Interwebs? Good lord what next?
  • Kwipper, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Lets see..

    First it was..

    ***** the RIAA.
    .. then it was
    ***** the MPAA
    ... now it is
    ***** the ESRB.

    How many more four letter companies do I need to add to my *****!?
  • Hangender, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5Hmmm, Internet, rated AO.
  • sunshinemonster, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Game websites already (usually) have one of those birth date checks to see if you're old enough for the content on their website. And come on guys, if you are old enough to figure out how to fake your birth date to get on a website, I think you're old enough to see what's on there.
  • mswc, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1"im on ur innanetz esrbing your trailers"
  • Jadart, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2The ESRB is the one organization that should know and take into account that most gamers are not ***** kids. I think retailers showed have some kind of sense not to sell M rated games to 10 year olds but in the end it is up to the parent's to control what there kids buy (I would hope parent's can control what they buy there kids, but then again.) and what they hell they do on the internet.

    This whole issue just pisses me off to the point because of what I have seen in person. I was working in Souther California installing an Alienware display @ the Universal Studios City Walk EB. A black mother and her son where there and the son asked for a copy of GTA SA. This is Southern California, you would think that a mother would not want her son to play something glorifying (debatable) the times of the LA Riots. Of course the clerk also tried to sell them the strategy guide as well. I was happily surprise when the mother inquired on whether he was "old enough to understand it". The clerk started to explain the content of the game. Shortly into his explanation the mother starting to talk again. She informed him that her question was whether he was old enough to understand the strategy guide. ...WTF?
  • funkydopeloven, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1asking =/= censorship = forcing
  • GeorgeTuk, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1ESRB have the responsibility of monitoring all game related material. This was an advert in an area of the website without warnings over adult content so it was removed.

    I suppose as always its easier to hate things then understand them
    • BabyWookie, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1How much do they pay you over at the ESRB, any way?
  • MINJA1131, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0im not worried about it, video games are to big of an industry
  •  

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