What is Digg?39 Comments
- roijen, on 09/20/2008, -1/+16It might seem logical that second had sales would appear to be a loss to EA. Who is going to pay for a new game when they can get a pre-owned one for cheaper? This is different than the purchasing a new car vs an old one because a new car generally is better than the old one. They are not the same vehicle. However, games are the same whether or not they have been played before. Because a pre-owned game does not lose value at a rate different from a brand new one the publisher could make an argument that re-selling hurts their sales.
This is a flawed and misleading argument though, mostly due to its complication. If you take a step back, it does not make sense that a publisher should get a percentage of a pre-owned game. They already got their take on that game. The resale explicitly shows that demand for their product has not increased. As they have not sold anything more, why should they make more?
In short: Someone has to buy the game for it to be re-sold. - hugolp, on 09/20/2008, -0/+9Completely agree. If you sold a game, you sold it. The owner can do whatever he wants with the game. Keep it or sell it. DRM should be ilegal.
- spammishking, on 09/20/2008, -4/+13/sarcasm?
- dle5, on 09/21/2008, -2/+9"The argument that the second hand business model exists in other industries isn't comparable, says the senior VP, as videogames don't wear and tear and become an inferior product as they are passed from consumer to consumer."
Utter *****. Discs can become scratched, cases and books damaged or lost, and most games in general lose their play value after a year or so. They can become obsolete as much as anything else.
Dreamcast is the exception :) - spammishking, on 09/21/2008, -2/+9This is pointless, you're a dumbass.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property - lanismycousin, on 09/21/2008, -0/+7it honestly doesnt surprise me one bit, in this way you are "forced" to buy a new EA game
- Gnar04, on 09/20/2008, -15/+21There you have it. Hate DRM? Blame gamestop. Ive always said developers should receive some sort of royalty for the reselling of their games. ***** you and your unfair practice gamestop.
- lobsterxcore, on 09/21/2008, -0/+6It makes a lot of sense, but it still ***** over the guy who throws fifty bucks out there for a new game. Plus, most places won't even accept used PC games as a trade-in.
- Khast, on 09/21/2008, -2/+7Well, fine...make it so no one can play your stupid games unless you buy them new. I have many games which I can play from Windows XP, 2000, 98, 95, and DOS which don't require online validation..... So...3 years down the road when you finally pull the authentication server for today's hot games...I'll still be able to play the old games...and you just screwed your loyal customers who purchased your game from a retail store.
- bubbakja, on 09/21/2008, -1/+6I will say that with Rising development costs, there should be some kickback to developers. This isn't 1995 and I'm trading in a couple old NES games to Funcoland (bought up by gamestop). Games are reaching 9 figure development costs. IMO they should just realign the pricing structure for the industry. If you aggressively drop the price after the game rolls out that might help. The issue is it takes a year to see a decent discount on most games..
On that note...No Retail outlets resell PC games, since they are so easy to pirat. EA's BS excuse for Spore is toast. - anaxa, on 09/21/2008, -2/+6***** pawn shops & garage sales, too? They have the a similar "unfair practice"...selling used games.
- opticwind, on 09/21/2008, -0/+4Except that you usually can't buy used PC games.
OH HOLY ***** I GET IT! - mattyice11, on 09/21/2008, -0/+4You know what else battles second hand sales? Steam distribution. Get your games on Steam and use their built-in DRM that works for both publishers and consumers.
- LuigiBrasile7, on 09/21/2008, -3/+6TPB > DRM
- Shogi, on 09/21/2008, -0/+3There seems to be a very simple solution to this problem:
Scale back the prices. I understand that that's no easy task, but if the one of the main reasons that people pirate/buy used is the cost, then the simple answer seems to be to reduce the initial cost and make it up in the increased volume. - saejinn, on 09/21/2008, -0/+3I agree with you. In fact, in some ways PC games can become unplayable much much faster then a used car.
- Bith8654, on 09/21/2008, -1/+3I guess games can become scratched, but it isn't really the same as say, a car. With a car parts are stressed when you use them, meaning it's not really a matter of whether something will break down, its a matter of when. Actually playing the game doesn't slowly build up scratches on the disc, failing to take good care of the game is what does that. Plus, as long as you have whatever DRM the game comes with (cd key in most cases) you can just download the client online. If taken care of properly, games can last years easily.
Look, I don't think EA's DRM decision was a good one at all, I feel it screws over the legitimate consumers more than it does to pirates, which is never a good business model. But you can't make weak and just plain wrong arguments like "oh its just like garage sales" or "discs wear out too" because those in charge of the DRM will just assume your looking to easily pirate games.
Gamestop is NOT like a garage sale because a garage sale is a limited time event, often lasting only a few days, with no advertising other than a couple signs in the neighborhood. Gamestop has about 5,550 locations, open every day, with strong advertising and a much wider selection than any garage sale. To top it all off, I have gone into Gamestop to buy a game brand new, only to have them tell me I could save 5 dollars if I bought the used one instead.
If you really want the DRM to stop, you need to at least understand where they are coming from so a realistic solution can be found. By telling them that all of this loss in sales in all in their heads, you're no better than Phil Gramm with his "nation of whiners" comment. - smoger, on 09/21/2008, -0/+2If i were so inclined, I could go out today and buy a car from 1973 that functions exactly as it did ... in 1973. Because games are still tied to physical media(for the time being), they are just as likely to degrade as a vehicle.. it only depends on the care that the previous owner put into it.
Also like cars, there will always be people who prefer to buy new, and there will be people who refuse to part with their goods.
The REAL solution to this problem that wouldn't be an attack on their customers would be to make games that keep people coming back over and over, either through optional open ended gameplay(Grand Theft Auto), frequent updates(Burnout Paradise.. which happens to be an EA game), or a robust multiplayer experience(COD4).
Of course nothing will stop pre owned sales completely, but the better the game is, the more demand there will be and a lower amount of used copies available. With fewer used copies available, the going-price for them will remain close to the price of a new copy, which will make people more likely to put out the extra 5 bucks or so to get the new one. - saejinn, on 09/21/2008, -0/+2This is stupid. They want to outlaw sharing stuff with your friends.
It's not true games do not degrade. The disc becomes scratched over time until it is unplayable. Not to mention computers, operating systems, consoles etc. are always changing making it harder and harder to be able to play a retroware game. Besides, how many people are going to play Halo 1 when Halo 3 is out?
EA wants to control what you BUY to the point that you can't even let your friends borrow YOUR product that you BOUGHT without giving them more cash. Sounds like renting to me. - sampson123, on 09/21/2008, -0/+2Steam is great, but it's still only a small percent of consumers that buy anything over digital distribution, the vast majority of consumers still go to retail. Steam also takes a significant royalty for every game sale which is something publishers need to consider before putting their games on steam. Hopefully digital distribution services like Steam and Impulse continue to grow since it's a win-win for both publishers and consumers.
- javaroast, on 09/21/2008, -0/+2EA is walking a very slippery slope here as they are trying to have it both ways. They are comparing themselves with products that expire over time like an auto. The part they are leaving out is that creating a 2nd copy of the game =next to nothing vs the costs with creating a second copy of the auto.
They can play word games all they want, but if they persist with this business model I can tell you that I won't be purchasing EA games. - Ajajadude, on 09/21/2008, -0/+2And what happens when they stop putting that game on a disc? There is still a market for old games that are no longer supported, marketed and sold by the producing companies.
So, say in 5 or 10 years I want to play Spore but I never owned it before? Or any other game for that matter? Is EA (if they're still EA at that point) going to fire up a manufacturing line so I can buy the game from them?
And say someone buys a game like Spore, installs it and starts playing and their HDD craps out a week later. They've just blown an install. Should someone who's close to the point where they're going to buy a new computer wait to buy a DRM'd game?
People who are going to wait to buy a used version of a new game probably never were only going to buy it used. And it just pushes people to want to go and download a pirated DRM free version. In fact, EA is begging people to do that. - roijen, on 09/21/2008, -0/+2I looked at demand. Not cash transactions. My variables were quantity of games released by the publisher and games purchased. These two must be equal. That is why if you step inside, the logic looks circular. Because it is. Zero will always equal zero if you take out the key variables in an equation. That is what is going on in the article.
In order for a game to be resold that means the original purchaser does not want the game anymore. If it is resold that means that someone wants the game that was pre-owned. Net effect is that no new games were created. - OneOfNone, on 09/21/2008, -0/+2EA is wrong on one more count: games DO age and become harder to use with time, as needed computer systems and OS versions become obsolete, average level of game technology improves, and servers (multiplayer & DRM) near their shutdown times. Games have limited lifespans, just like cars.
- saejinn, on 09/21/2008, -0/+1I pirate and I use Linux, so my answer is a bit biased.
- smoger, on 09/21/2008, -0/+1if you actually read the article as opposed to going solely on the title submitted to digg, you'd know that they are proposing expanded online services and content. I don't think DRM was even mentioned in the article from what I recall.
- yurishoujo, on 09/21/2008, -0/+1Sounds like a lot of pissing, moaning and greediness to me. How exactly is reselling a game unlike reselling a book? I have bought second hand books that are from the 70s, they still work fine. They're a little worn, but still work. Used games are often the same way. They get scratched, discs don't hold their data forever. CDs eventually lose their data (possibly faster than a printed page will if the paper is taken care of.)
I'd be a lot more sympathetic to EA's problem with the second hand market if they weren't so high and mighty about it, thinking their problem is somehow so much worse than every other industry's battle with second hand goods. If a video game is intellectual property and books and movies aren't, I'm a ***** monkey. - resolve, on 09/21/2008, -0/+1I understand their problem, but they've decided to tackle it in a very stupid way. The way it SHOULD be handled is like what Blizzard does with most games. Make the online part exciting and fun. Make it so people really want to play online. Include a CD key usable ONCE to create ONE account online.
Putting install limits on a game heavily infringes upon legitimate usage and ends up pissing people off more than helping. - inactive, on 09/21/2008, -0/+1This is going to end badly for EA. Once this ends up in court... and it will... chances are good that the First Sale Doctrine is going to apply, and EA are going to be hurting.
- saejinn, on 09/21/2008, -0/+1So with your logic car industries should put DRM into their vehicles so when you buy a new car you cannot sell it to someone used. Once you buy that car its yours for good. Same with movies, once you buy a movie you can't lend it to anyone else. Say goodbye to Netflix and Blockbuster. I hope you don't rent ANYTHING because with your logic any and all industries that rely on renting would have to fundamentally change their business model or cease to exist.
opticwind, if you have ever held a garage sale or sold something used on ebay, or rented anything in your life (including an apartment since, with your logic, the construction crew who built the place should continue to get paid), you're a hypocrite. - Christbait, on 09/21/2008, -0/+1If a game is seeing more second hand sales than unique sales, then it speaks volumes about the quality and interest in the title. Stop releasing half finished games and instead you'd see lots of unique sales on the first week.
- chaosblade77, on 09/21/2008, -1/+1Lowering prices will do more to fight used game sales that crappy DRM.
- lamiaconfitor, on 09/21/2008, -4/+4***** YOU EA!
- YancyFryJr, on 09/21/2008, -3/+2***** EA. The god-damn thumbnail doesn't help alleviate any anger, either.
- VipeNess, on 09/21/2008, -4/+3well, when the world is against you, blame someone else.
EA: NO NO, he did it!
Gamestop: NO NO, I didn't do it, It was him! - sampson123, on 09/21/2008, -3/+1Like it or not this is the real reason most PC games have DRM. The used game market costs the game developers and publishers billions every year. DRM like SecuROM that Spore uses has essentially killed the used game market for the PC. Since most consumers have no idea how to pirate a game, the publishers consider DRM to be a huge success. So before you make another post about how DRM doesn't work just answer this one question, when is the last time you bought a used PC game?
- opticwind, on 09/21/2008, -3/+1That's ridiculous. Most used sales are just people trying to save 3-4 bucks. Nobody goes in and says "I want this game but the hell if I'm paying an extra 3 dollars".
You do make good points about the life of a game. DRM like Spore's seems to make it impossible to enjoy down the road a bit. However, if you're playing Spore in 10 years...I mean, really? With Crysis 4 out? - opticwind, on 09/21/2008, -4/+1I disagree. It represents a lost sale. Someone will buy your used game IN PLACE of buying the full game. Your argument is that "they have not sold anything more" and that's circular because they would have sold more without the used title.
- Gnar04, on 09/21/2008, -8/+4oh, i forgot those, i forgot they buy your games for next to nothing, then resell them for an almost new price. silly me.
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