What is Digg?125 Comments
- CatfishJones, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14The claim seemed a little far-fetched at first, I still don't believe it fully. I've bought, maybe, 5% of my games from Wal-Mart. Every once in a while you get a good deal, like Indigo Prophecy for $20 CAD not two weeks after release. The other 95% of the time I go to a game-only retailer or a pawn shop. I just don't see many (older) gamers buying the majority of their games from Wal-Mart. The average "savings" is barely a dollar in most cases and their selection is poor.
The article claims game-box sizes were directly influenced by Wal-Mart as well as game-box art, game content (violence, nudity) and game genres created. I highly doupt Wal-Mart is the end all and be all of these decisions. I would say Wal-Mart is probably a great lowest-common-denominator-measure for publishers to decide which games will sell big and which won't. With that in mind, I doupt a Wal-Mart veto on an upcoming game title would trigger the cancelation of said title's development. (as the article claims) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13You moved to be able to buy video games more easily?
- AssProphet, on 10/12/2007, -7/+19Agreed.
"every triple-A game sold at retail in North America is managed start to finish, top to bottom, with the publisher's gaze fixed squarely on Wal-Mart, and no other."
All this superlative language just make the "article" sound like over hyped *****. I don't doubt it may be true to a degree, but why write as if it's God's Aboslute truth about the gaming market. This is bad journalism. - stan205, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12This is just the tip of the iceberg. If anyone really cares about there local community watch this movie:
http://www.walmartmovie.com/
and then do something about it. Make the choice to stop shopping at Walmart. - stealthboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10I haven't stepped inside a Walmart in oh, 5 or 6 years. Not too hard. Support your local stores.
- Chewie67, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Last time I saw their prices, I agree. They are far from "cheap" when it comes to the price of video games.
- mark1372, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10They do this with a lot of products, including music and movies. Manufacturers have to change packaging or content all the time for Wal-Mart, and usually have little to say about it. For example, Wal-Mart has over 50% of CD sales and can also dictate rack placement, therefore, a record company won't want to piss them off. Hardly unusual for them, unfortunately.
- amitlu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Dude, have you SEEN Deer Hunter's numbers? It's insane. Just because you don't shop at Wal-Mart doesn't mean millions of people don't. It's just a demographics thing.
- Squirrelinabox, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9It's depressing to see how many comments are people boasting about stealing in one form or another. Yes, I know this is a tech site, and as such bit torrent and screwing over Wal-Mart are part of the mission statement, but stealing is still wrong people.
As for the story, I do believe Wal Mart can heavily influence certain aspects of games, but not nearly as much as the article claims. - amitlu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8You're right. You can't buy a topless version of a game in America, but not because of a legal problem. Why? Because retailers won't sell it! Check out anything on the digital distribution channel (like the latest uncensored Liesure Suit Larry game or Second Life) and see what you find.
This isn't anecdotal, man. While Wal-Mart might not have a specific anti-gaming agenda, what they choose to put on shelves affects enough developers to where they just won't design certain types of games. - dclowd9901, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11You bring up a good point. There are a lot of towns that rely solely on a Wal-Mart for their goods. The city I used to live in, Lake Havasu City in Arizona, has no Target or Gamestops or anything of that nature. If you want a game, you have to buy it from Wal-Mart.
So I moved. - JoshuaWood, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8They definetly influence music, with artists creating censored versions, as well as books. Howard Stern's book was not picked up, but I don't think they do anything for video games. Some of the most violent/controversial games (GTA, etc) have been sold there.
- CatfishJones, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8In short (for the lazy readers), Wal-Mart the corporation holds no sway over game design, however, the democraphic which Wal-Mart represents happens to be the ultimate group from which publishers can make an easy buck.
"Several publishers, running entirely below the industry radar, have found excellent business catering to the Wal-Mart demographic." - amitlu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7What happened to GTA after Hot Coffee? Wal-Mart and others pulled it and cost Take Two $40 million, which _was written about in the article_.
Also _in the article_: "For the U.S. version of Giants: Citizen Kabuto (2000), Planet Moon put a bikini top on Delphi, the game's topless sea-nymph heroine, after Wal-Mart refused to carry the seminude version."
So hey, looks like there's one game I didn't get, at least how the devs wanted it to look, thanks to Wal-Mart. We can do this all day, man. - amitlu, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Two things:
1) It's inaccurate just because he doesn't link to irrefutable proof, despite the fact he has quotes from Wal-Mart execs and game designers? (See, I read the article.)
2) "Fools"? ICEBURN! - geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Well, I admit I'm not going to sit down and read that whole article (it's formatted worse than most newspapers I try to sit down and read..), but from what I read, it's pretty sensible. It's not like Wal-mart sits down and says "this game won't get made because we don't like it", it's more like "this game won't be marketable under our "Wal-mart Family Image", so we can't carry it", and the game designers make the final decision.
Believe it or not, Wal-mart is still the largest retailers of a large number of items, simply because they're everywhere, and often they're the only place in certain communities to even obtain certain items (for example, in my hometown, they're the only place to shop for practically everything except groceries and gasoline). Certainly computer games factor deeply into this (because in these communities, if you're lucky enough to even own a computer, it's very likely you still shop at Wal-mart, and if it's not there, you either have to turn to buying it online, or go without).
I'm not going to author a conspiracy theory on why my bag of chips contains mostly gas simply to fill up the bag and to take up more space inside a box because Wal-mart won't buy them if they're not like that, but certainly Wal-mart factored into that decision as well ("Hey, we've gotta make sure Wal-mart in Maine can get these chips fresh and not broken into a thousand pieces, so we should inflate the bags to maintain chip-life"). - tkerwin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5A very interesting take on how big retailers shape the game market. It's looking more and more like games are being transformed by forces not under the designers control to appease big business and go for maximum immediate "profitability". The same thing happened to movies and music.
- cusoman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4And when was the last time you attended a meeting with wal-mart or game developer execs?
- gschoots, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Usually a store has people selecting products that they think will sell well, this has everything to do with all kinds of demographics like common family construction, ages and even violence levels. If a store thinks violent games will sell well they can decide to do so or their business policy may advise otherwise (aka the do no evil principle). And if all stores decide not too for some reason there is always some way to get it anyway.
I don't believe game companies will slash game releases if Walmart decides not to sell it however since they are so big in the US a game publisher may listen to the reasons why they won't and decide if thye are going to change something about the product to influence the decision. - MysticalMatt517, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I can tell most of you haven't read the article. Avoiding Wal-Mart when it comes to buying games isn't enough. At the end of the day any manufacturer will tell you that if a consumer oriented product isn't in Wal-Mart, it doesn't exist. If you're a game developer, especially a small one, you need to do everything you can to make sure your game gets into the house that Sam built. Although there have been rare "Wal-Mart Cleansed" games, most of the time it's not economically viable. Consequently going to Best-Buy doesn't change anything, because the developer made the game specifically so it would pass the "Wal-Mart" test.
With music it's a simple solution, if you don't want censored music don't go to Wal-Mart. Unfortunately it's much more difficult to "bleep" a video game than it is a CD. Consequently we're all getting the "bleeped" versions.
If anything this is a case for digital distribution. I know calling Xbox Live Arcade the savior of the gaming industry is getting passé, but it's true. The sooner we can buy and obtain our games online the better off we'll be. - JohnboiWaltune, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5He'll make an adorable wife for his cell mate
- bcorder, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Long time reader of escapist magazine. Article makes some good points. Not as conspiratorial as you might think, just market influence of the 8000 lb. gorilla.
- d4rkj3di, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Violent games you will see all day long at Wal-Mart, they sell shotguns. Games containing nudity? They refuse to sell morning after contraceptives. No, F-ing way. So as far a determining content, why do you think Tomb Raider got pushed back for a nipple in one of the textures?
- knupso, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4You are right about the box size. It was more pressure from eviromental groups. There is no reason to have a huge box when all it contains are a couple CDs, a thin book and some post card sized ads.
- SixSider, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4If you read "The Wal-Mart Effect," this is not crazy.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1594200769/002-7223407-6956840?v=glance&n=283155
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5181097
HOWEVER, I'm not sure I've seen huge affects of this on games. I have never heard of a game idea that has been canned because Wal-Mart said they wouldn't carry it. - gregoj, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6So now opinion pieces have an accuracy rating? So we can expect the majority of newspapers in the nation to not find it up on Digg very often. Comforting.
Wwwwwwwow. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I think the article is extreme. He cited some sources, but not enough to support the extreme positions stated in the article. That said, I do think there's a problem worth discussing. If you don't think there's a problem, you won't get much out of reading my comment.
I think the problem is that developers think of themselves as studios, when they should think of themselves as stars. Studios stake out markets. Studios buy other studios that hold strong positions in other markets. But stars move freely among studios and markets. Stars produce big-budget action movies, and then they go on to make low-budget independent dramas. That's the trade-off stars make. They do the big movies to make money; then they make small movies to further their craft and pursue the interests that got them involved in the craft in the first place.
Businesses are all about making money. Artists are not. Software developers need to start thinking of themselves as artists. That would solve this market problem--and a lot of other problems involved in the stagnation of the videogame industry.
Make your big Wal-Mart game, and THEN make the game you really want to make. Or vice-versa. - dclowd9901, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7I moved because Havasu sucks. A fringe benefit happened to be that I didn't have to support a monopolistic conglomerate anymore. Sorry if that point was confused, though, you could've given me the benefit of the doubt.
- MicroBerto, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3If GTA sold at Wal-Mart, I doubt they would heavily influence anything else. I don't buy the hype.
- CatfishJones, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I nearly fell out of my chair. "Look at the people from other countries. They don't have Walmart or any such day to day products. They live in poverty and will do anything even for $1."
You heard it here first folks. Third world countries are poor because they don't have any Wal-Marts.
Fani, in regards to "generic ***** comments without any proof", perhaps you should do some research yourself. Here's just one example: Wal-Mart is causing (and contributing) to urban sprawl all over this continent. Hell, I only have to compare a 20-year old map and a recent map of my city along with "grand opening" dates of the various stores around our local Wal-Mart. Not to mention the 20 minute drive on a four-lane road that magically ends at our Wal-Mart. It's not rocket science. - bjkrautk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Pretty sure you can still get "God of War" and it's explicit content at Wal-Mart....and I'm sure we could think of plenty of other games to tack on to that list. If Wal-Mart doesn't carry a game, it has more to do with thinking it won't sell than it does nudity (BMX XXX comes to mind...).
No Digg. - quincymd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Walmart do have a say in how games develop. I have a friend who worked on an non-AAA Xbox title and during their meetings with their publisher it was said in no uncertain terms that if there was no XBox Live support, then there was no Walmart shelf space available. So to make sure they didn't throw away possible sales they had to implement the Live feature and that added big bucks and delayed release dates.
I agree that with big selling franchise titles, FIFA, GTA, Tomb Raider, walmart will only care about the dollars that they will bring in, but each of these franchises first started as possible duff games and therefore walmart would've been in a stronger position to dictate the content/features that fit into its store 'vision" - stealthboy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I see, so theft is ok just because the security is "stupid".... riiiiiight. Can't wait to see how you'll contribute to society!
- RubberbandLN6, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Unfortunately, this conspiracy theory may make sense.
- terrix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Meh, Walmart lowered the cost of living and got rid of a lot of archaic ways of doing things in the retail industry. This made them cheaper. Being cheaper, more people bought from them. This drove outdated business's out of business or forced them to choose a non-competing niche like offering better service or higher quality goods. Point is, Walmart has so much power because us shoppers dictate it as so. I don't buy most of my games at Walmart because the selection sucks and the best sales take place elsewhere on games. That said, at least now they carry more games, and Walmart has to be careful what they carry, their image is important to them as it should be for any company. They want their customers to feel its a store they can take their kids too and doesn't sell any objectionable material. It's democratic in a way. Walmart does the best job of what it does and lowers the cost of living for its shoppers, so shoppers go there instead of somewhere else. Sometimes shoppers go to Target.
- jonconley, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4I don't have anything to back this up, but seems to be a pattern.
There are always arguments about the majority controlling the decisions. Example, the politicians can only do what the majority of their constituents favor. Or Wal-Mart is a retail business, and therefore must cater to there customer.
We, being Americans, are a lazy and ill-informed people. Look at how the voter turnout is. 60%, so 2 out of 5 people don't even vote. And the vast majority of those people probably voted blindly (party alignment maybe) or by being subjected to what they see on TV everyday in ads or news like the "no-spin zone".
That is OUR president and we are that passive on what happens. Same thing with media (being movies, CDs, books). Largely it is demographic, like horror movies sucking the last few years because all the market was preteens so you get a PG-13 film.
Wal-Mart was catering to demographics such as that which as a whole cannot be controlled easily.
Another factor is we only see what they want us to see. Seldom do you hear how much was cut or edited from a movie or album. So it is largely based upon a small group of people that control the content before it reaches the mainstream. Wal-Mart has a board dedicated solely to this function. So no, we don't dictate what Wal-Mart carries. Could we.. maybe? Unlikely, due to the fact that we aren't active enough about leaders of our country let alone if the newest Eminem (not my cup of tea) album is available just as the artist wanted them.
When a large amount of advertisement is via Wal-Mart and the distribution is such a large percentage (I saw a lot of numbers so far and Wal-Mart is ever growing), they have the might, not the customers. We are spoonfed whatever we get. A country who lost an ability to think for themselves.
Hope I explained the mentality and linkage, but alas I am no Malcolm Gladwell...
Gotta go watch some MTV, might miss the next big catchphrase the kids are using or what brand that Bam is endorsing now! - Machine, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It's not so much a conspiracy... more a bowing down to reality. Wal-Mart is a massive force in retail... creating a game.
that Wal-Mart won't carry will just lose a software company a space on the shelf, which will go to another video game company
The same thing is happening with book publishing... there are a handful of large chains (Wal-Mart, Sam's Club, Costco, B&N, and Borders) that buy and then sell the bulk of the books published... so you want to keep them happy and offer them products that they can feel comfortable carrying. Nothing too offensive on or between the covers.Music and movies are the same way...
Sure, we can all think of exceptions... but for the most part games seem to be stuck in this endless stream of movie-tie-ins, sequels, a variations on a well-played out theme. - AerodynamicHair, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2First off, I'll admit that I'm digging this mostly because I love The Escapist, and have read about some very interesting ideas in their previous "magazines."
For those calling the article here say, just remember a few things:
1. The article stresses that Walmart does not have direct control of game design and publishing, but that they do have a large influence over it because of their standards.
2. I notice a strange thing about the Internet medium. Magazines often publish articles with just quotes from figures interviewed by the reporter, and we accept that because we trust magazines that have the funding to be distributed. However, on the Internet one cannot judge an article simply on its ability to be distributed, so jaded readers demand for sources, probably links to other websites with bigger names. Since The Escapist is trying to mimic a magazine format, it offers only the quotes the author found, but because it's on the Internet, the quotes come into question. Truth is a cruddy website can have the same level of accuracy as a big magazine, it's just how we perceive it.
3. Don't think about it as Walmart calling up game executives, think about it as Walmart saying it simply won't carry a game. While other distributors may carry the game, Walmart is a very large vendor, and losing such a hard vendor is something you don't want to do. As the article quoted: "There's not much nudity other than statues. Wal-Mart is picky about that. When you have to decide between feeding your family or putting nudity in the game, you choose food."
That's my two cents. Think of it as a peer-reviewed essay, not a piece of pure, unadulterated truth. You'll enjoy it more that way. - Cowboy5995, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I knew it!!!! Insane conspiracy's theory's 1 and regular theory's 153,563,356,......................................2
- JohnboiWaltune, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I always pirate a game before I buy. I have been burned many times by games that won't work on my hardware (Civ 4), or crash too much to be playable (Oblivion), or just plain suck too much to hold my interest for more than an hour (many).
You can't return them. The best you can do is sell the used game on eBay for half of what you paid. Until they allow games to be returned, I will pirate every time. If it works and it's good, I'll buy it. If not, I delete it. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3http://www.walmartmovie.com/
- rc_collins, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2If you dont want to sell your game at walmart you dont have to, thus if walmart doesnt want to sell your game, they dont have to... Get over it!
Also, Walmart became the biggest by being the best. They started on the same level playing field as every other department store in the last 100 years (Sears, JC Pennys, Kohls, Bergners, Macys, etc etc etc.). Watch a documentary about the history of Sam Walton and his inovation and how even today everyone enjoys products at low overhead because of them.
--dan - rushiku, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2What percent of game sales does Wal-mart represent?
How much of an increase in sales will a game see if it includes the "Banned by Wal-mart" label?
Yea, that's what I thought.
Bull.***** - cavanaughphoto, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2This story doesn't cite a single source. It's validity seems suspicious at best. No digg.
- rockforever, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Save_Scenic_Loop/
and we won. - j0keR, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Good article, please at least read it before drawing conclusions. They definately have a lot of influence with the small/independent developers. Let's face it, unless you're among the top selling developers, you'd better hope you can strike a deal with the retail chains. The article even gives a few examples of games that even changed their content just to make the shelves... Is that really surprising to anybody? I've heard the same goes with music, because Wal-Mart takes issue with explicit lyrics.
- Ian_Dass, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2to quote a money magazine or business week article i read about a year ago, "the best thing any business can do is go into business with Walmart. the worst thing any business can do is not go into business with Walmart."
- gumby013, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2This is news to people? All retailers have some level of input on new products. And as the largest retailer, Wal-Mart has the most.
Wal-Mart treats shelf space very preciously. The smaller the packaging, the more they can fit on a shelf, the more they can sell from the same space. As for packaging content, Wal-Mart has always been a stickler for what appears on the outside of a product. It is what sells the item in a low service system. And as another bit of information. Most companies get sampler items for review long before the item ever hits the shelves. - KMcG, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The short answer is no...Walmart may have the largest sales numbers right now, but the EB games and gamestop merger will at least move them from the 3 and 4 slots to at least 2ND place (currently held by best buy) and maybe even pass up walmart.
The sick sad truth is except for a few select privately owned development companies that have the money to establish their own brands, the publishers still run the show. the only influence walmart would have would be in the budget game market PC market where the publishers would force the developers to meet stricter requirements to meet the standard computer power of the average walmart shopper (which would be their main market for the title). Even then that has no bearing over content of the game, so walmart's influence is minimal.
the truth is walmart would lose huge amounts of money by not stocking the most popular brands. That is why they still stock games like GTA. They could chances are break a few of the smaller companies by just not stocking their budget titles, but walmart makes a killing off of those from casual gamers so they have no reason not to stock them. - drakethegreat, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6I'm so glad there isn't a walmart within 20 miles of my house. Makes it easy not to support what this article suggests. Do the right thing and buy your games online. Its cheaper then stores (usually) and you can support being a lazy American.
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