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Do complex games face an uncertain future on the Wii?

nintendowiifanboy.com — Underwhelming sales of Capcom's Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure in the US and Japan have once again raised questions over whether or not the Wii crowd really wants complex games.

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  • atomicpoet, on 11/15/2007, -5/+72I think everyone who liked Zack and Wiki knew it would have been a miracle if it sold well. It's got a stupid name. It's an adult game seemingly marketed to minors. And Matt Cassimasina from IGN seemed to be the one generating most of the hype. With that said, I'm amazed it got the sales it did.
    • Scienceisfun, on 11/15/2007, -1/+41100% agree. I hate to be one to judge a book by its cover, but I initially figured Zack and Wiki for yet another generic, brightly-colored platformer. It was IGN's review that brought me around, but seriously, if you aren't visiting some type of gaming site (which probably covers millions of the Wii's owners), how could you possibly identify it off the shelf at Best Buy or Gamestop as something original and worth picking up? Even then, the name is just so generic! It doesn't even compel a more serious gamer to give it a second look.
      • KingGoonie, on 11/15/2007, -3/+16I completely agree... its an extremely fun game, a challenging game... but when the only thing I knew about it was its name I figured it was a run of the mill kiddie game. I think I first started hearing about it on here.. like people would say "and zach and wiki is going to be great!" and I remember thinking... huh? That sounds like its going to be like boogie, a stupid crappy kiddie game... and then I kept hearing it more and more and figured maybe it would be good... maybe like a banjo and mario and DK64 type game... you know thats what it sounded like, like if it wasnt a kids only game then maybe a fun for all platformer, thats what hte name sounds like... Zach & Wiki.. Banjo & Kazooie, Jack and Daxter, Rathcet and Clank... that type of thing. So eventually after hearing enough about it from digg mentions (but before hearing the ign thing) I looked it up on wikipedia and saw that no its kinda puzzleish... which I thought might be cool but I didn't really get in what way it would work. Then I heard more on IGN podcasts, saying how great the game was... but still didn't quite get it... what? you don't control the characters? But the IGN praise really started getting to me, and then when they started explaining it more, then the great review... I was like you know what I gotta get this game. And I'm glad I did...

        But you see the problem here? I go to ign usually once a day.. i listen to there podcasts... i come to digg... thats how I know about the game, and how I came to buy it. But its not like thats something everyone does. Not all casual gamers really go to review sites, and there are even people who do that look at a game name and dont even click to check out the review... This is definitely a game that needs to 100% go by word of mouth.. and probably arguements "dude you gotta get Zach & wiki!" "uh.. zach and wha?" "ZACH AND WIKI, QUEST FOR BARBADOS TREASURE! ITS AWESOME" "uh huh.. yea... yea that sounds like a kids game..." "NO DUDE ITS NOT, TRUST ME, I KNOW IT SOUNDS LIEK THAT BUT IT SLIKE THIS.." "oH, yea that does sound cool, maybe I will give it a try"
        • mywhitenoise, on 11/15/2007, -39/+5WILL YOU SHUT THE ***** UP!?

          Seriously, do you always have to post a wall of text that goes nowhere?
        • atomicpoet, on 11/15/2007, -7/+16@mywhitenoise

          Do you always have to obnoxiously piss on other people's opinions? No one was holding a gun to your head to read what he had to say. You had to actually click on the thread to read it. Get over yourself.
        • sanman, on 11/16/2007, -1/+3I recently bought a Wii, and I'm most interested in games that make use of the new control paradigm.
          If I could lash a whip like Indiana Jones, or toss a grenade using the motion of my hand, or handle a sword and shield using the Wiimote and nunchuk, that would probably be my most favorite type of gameplay. Oh, and of course lots of Zapper/lightgun blasting, naturally.
          Hell, I love Wii boxing and I'd probably like to have a combat game like Tekken or Mortal Kombat where you can throw real punches or karate chops, etc. That's the stuff I really want to get to.
          And plus it will all make for great physical exercise, rather than being a thumb-jockey who adores his PS3 so that he can look at the same old boring FPS gun in even higher-res than ever. (Oooh, look! I can see beads of sweat on my gun! I can see my reflection in those beads of sweat! Bah!)
        • Exhaust, on 11/16/2007, -0/+2I have to agree with white on this one. Goon is always posting long rambling incoherent comments. Just get to the point for gods sake. I think Goon is at least mildly retarded. Only reason hes being dugg up is this forum is another circle jerk for Wii fanboys.

          That being said I'm not anti-Wii. Just started SMG last night and its awesome. Probably end up playing that more than Assassin's creed. I'll have to check out Zack and Wiki...

          Now commence the digg down...
    • gharding, on 11/15/2007, -2/+30I've never even heard of it. Maybe their marketing is to blame.
      • johnhummel, on 11/15/2007, -1/+8I have to agree with that. I only knew about it because of my following the gaming crowd.

        The game is sheer awesome. I've been avoiding even looking at gaming faqs, because so much of the fun is going "OK, so I have an umbrella, and a shovel, and - oh, wait! I got it!"

        You fail, but every level can be restarted, and once you figure it out, you can blaze right through.

        But - the marketing. The name. The look. I keep comparing this game to Ico. In Ico (and it's "sequel", "Shadow fo the Colossus", everything you needed so solve an area's puzzle was right there in the room with you. You didn't have to go back and forth across the map to solve the puzzle. But the look is very mature, very cool, and sold rather well.

        I can't help but wonder what if Capcom didn't look at the Wii as "the kid and family friendly device", and designed Zak and Wiki with that in mind. You could have the same story-line, without the cartoon cell shaded graphics and wacky cartoon physics. The games play and mental puzzles are *far* above that of a child - perhaps a teenager and up, at least, so the childishness was really not needed.

        Don't get me wrong - I like the look, and my children are enjoying playing it with me (well, I play, they point their Wiimotes on the screen and draw lines and shout suggestions that usually don't work - but I walk them through my thinking process). But I can't help but wonder if the game wouldn't have sold more if it had, and God forgive me for saying this, a more "mature" look and feel.
    • mrbeagle, on 11/15/2007, -13/+4wii is for babby
    • Dissonance, on 11/15/2007, -0/+5I was a huge fan of Sierra games and have long been waiting for something in that vein. If I had seen Zack and Wiki in the stores, I would have never even thought that it might even closely resemble the kind of problem solving Sierra games used to involve. It definitely looks to kiddish. Roberta Williams where are you!?
    • BearinG, on 11/19/2007, -0/+1But its good isn't it?
  • SkippyDoorknob, on 11/15/2007, -3/+88Zack & Wiki is being killed by its name.
    • squirmalicious, on 11/15/2007, -3/+14Yeah, the name is terrible.
    • darkNiGHTS, on 11/15/2007, -3/+9Treasure Island Z is what it was originally called and it should have stayed that way.
    • DarkDx, on 11/15/2007, -7/+2[Citation Needed]
    • attractivetb, on 11/15/2007, -11/+4If it was called "Mario and Wiki" it would be a million seller. Wii gamers want Nintendo games. I have a Wii, with Galaxy and Twighlight Princess. That's all I want.
      • MaynardJK, on 11/15/2007, -0/+12Speak for yourself. I don't care who the characters are as long as the game is good.
    • FuzzyBunny, on 11/15/2007, -0/+19And by the fact that it's an unknown IP with almost zero marketing amidst what is quite possibly the biggest holiday games lineup ever.
      • emjaymj, on 11/16/2007, -0/+1DING DING DING
        We have some common sense!
    • Tahiri, on 11/16/2007, -1/+1On a system called the wii, ironic.
  • Zamfir, on 11/15/2007, -45/+10Too complex for the average Wii owner.
    • atomicpoet, on 11/15/2007, -6/+27Put down your fanboy goggles for a moment. Would you have bought Zack and Wiki if it was on the 360 or PS3?
      • xOpifex, on 11/15/2007, -11/+8I have a Wii and I don't want to buy it.
        • KingGoonie, on 11/15/2007, -9/+4Then your crazy.
        • xOpifex, on 11/15/2007, -3/+9I'm crazy for having a different opinion about a video game than you?
      • Zamfir, on 11/15/2007, -6/+4Yes, I would probably... but I *like* complex games... the casual gamer, maybe not so much.
    • chris9902, on 11/15/2007, -24/+3circles are too complex for most Wii owners.
      • KingGoonie, on 11/15/2007, -3/+8Considering the Wii is such a phenomenon because all types of people like it, I would say that if anything the wii has the most complex of all the systems owners. Its got the kids, the adults, the guys with an IQ of 75 and the guys in mensa... etc.
        • mywhitenoise, on 11/15/2007, -11/+3I think you meant guys with an IQ of 75, and people with dementia. Based on all the disney games, Hannah Montana, and friend codes, i'm going to guess Nintendo is catering more to a younger audience.
          • EtherGnat, on 11/16/2007, -0/+3I'm reluctant to even post my IQ (it would just seem like bragging and I think it's a rather pointless measure of intelligence anyway) but I'm a smart guy, and the Wii is the only modern console I own. I hang out with smart people (engineers, scientists, etc) and they seem to enjoy the Wii. In fact I find that very intelligent people frequently have an appreciation for silly and child like things: Cartoons; toys; puns; etc.

            The Wii is the first gaming console my parents have owned since the Atari 2600. My 80 year old grandma loves to play Wii Sports: Bowling. Nintendo has designed the Wii to be family friendly, but it would be immature to mistake that for meaning kids-only.
          • R3Dirkulous, on 11/16/2007, -0/+2whitenoise...why are you such a troll? you contantly bash the ***** outta the wii..and even accuse me of not having a ps3..were you raped by someone wearing a mario mask?
        • atomicpoet, on 11/15/2007, -3/+10@mywhitenoise

          It's more like Nintendo is catering to everyone who isn't a twitchy 18-year-old boy hopped up on Red Bull and pale from lack of sunlight. Stereotypes, afterall, are a great way to gauge a consoles appeal -- that's what you're implying, right?
        • heypetray, on 11/15/2007, -1/+3@King
          I know what you're saying, but mass appeal doesn't equal complexity. May I present to you, Pornography

          @Whitenoise
          There are plenty of older people who want to feel young again, and there's nothing wrong with that. In my opinion, Halo doesn't require nearly as much of an IQ as even Zelda. If you play video games to feel smart or elite, you're a more than likely more retarded than the person who is playing a game for FUN i.e. The Mensa guys who probably rock out on Guitar Hero - and you know they're out there.

          @Atomicpoet
          My thoughts exactly.
        • Elranzer, on 11/16/2007, -1/+1Anytime you hear Wii bashing, you're dealing with 13 year olds who haven't discovered masturbation yet.
      • DarkSamus, on 11/16/2007, -0/+1that's not what your mom said when i was hitting her O
    • WhereAmI, on 11/16/2007, -3/+1This is true. The average Wii owners just want simple games to play with their kids. Or just simple games they can enjoy. The only ones that bought Zack and Wiki are the same Nintendo fanboys that bothered to buy a Gamecube.
    • WhereAmI, on 11/16/2007, -3/+1This is true. The average Wii owners just want simple games to play with their kids. Or just simple games they can enjoy. The only ones that bought Zack and Wiki are the same Nintendo fanboys that bothered to buy a Gamecube.
  • mccurdyj, on 11/15/2007, -2/+16It's such a great game. It's really sad more people haven't picked it up. Especially all those people complaining about not enough "Great" games for the Wii.
  • caddyalan, on 11/15/2007, -13/+2What *is* a complex game? Is it RTS, FPS, or RPG? Is it a sandbox game? An economic simulation? Whatever one is, it certainly doesn't have to feature a space marine, a vigilante, or a 20th century war.
    A game which is no different from any other except for some controller-based tricks probably isn't much good. But I believe there can be depth and strategy in platform games or easy-to-understand games.
    • atomicpoet, on 11/15/2007, -1/+16Zack and Wiki is an adventure-based puzzle game where you have to use gestures -- with little to no hints -- to pass the levels. Being able to pass this game requires lots of imagination. It's a good game but was ultimately destined for obscurity -- and eveyone in the know knew it. I think even Capcom knew it.
      • KingGoonie, on 11/15/2007, -4/+1SPOILER ALERT..............

        The most difficult part to me is I keep forgettign you can flip things like the umbrella or broom around.
    • feshmania, on 11/15/2007, -1/+5Have you even played Zack and Wiki before you write it off as just another game?
  • Tygell, on 11/15/2007, -1/+35My wife ended up playing and beating it in a week and loved every minute of it. When i first told her about the game though, she gave me a puzzled look. "Zack and what? You just ring a bell to beat enemies? I don't get it." It's like trying to explain ICO or SotC to someone.

    I think part of the problem is that it was never advertised as far as i remember. I didn't hear about it until about a week before it's release, and i spend a decent chunk of my time on gaming forums.

    Z&W goes on my list of unappreciated games with the aforementioned Sony titles, Beyond Good and Evil, Psychonauts, and Planescape: Torment.
    • typicalusername, on 11/15/2007, -6/+3I think it's funny that Psychonauts was listed by most people as a failure, and most my friends absolutely love it.
      • geartype2, on 11/16/2007, -1/+1because of gametap and steam Psychonauts is slowly making more sales than it did in retail. So don't discount it just yet.
    • GreyICE, on 11/15/2007, -0/+10Can't forget Okami. Though Okami: Wii might give the best game on the PS2 a second life.
      • Tygell, on 11/16/2007, -0/+1I forgot about Okami. I'm shamed to admit I never got around to playing it. I'll likely try it out for the Wii when it comes out.
  • KingGoonie, on 11/15/2007, -13/+9What is a complex game anyway? Because I really don't think they do well on ANY system. You wanna say RPGs are complex? I don't think so... but even so are you going to sit here and tell me a Final Fantasy game wouldnt sell well on Wii? Zack & Wiki would not have sold any better on PS3 or 360. Sometimes its not about the game, but other factors. Advertising, consumers misconception, etc, so lets not act like because this is Wii here.
  • badassninja, on 11/15/2007, -9/+4I think part of the problem is it is made by Capcom. I mean really, if they just kept on putting out Mega Man X every few years then maybe they could stay a float.
  • gweedo767, on 11/15/2007, -3/+18The game has been out for what...two weeks? I am going to buy this game, but not until the new year do to other games coming out. I don't understand why the first two weeks of a games sales are the sink or swim for it...
    • Schmapdi, on 11/15/2007, -1/+5Really - the only reason I didn't go buy it was because I put it on my Xmas list. I would think they would wait until the end of the year before making such claims.
    • FriedTurkey, on 11/16/2007, -0/+3Often if a game isn't selling well, the retailers no longer allocate shelf space for it. It is like the movies where the success deems how long it stays in theaters. Also publishers stop producing copies based on the early sales reports.
    • WhereAmI, on 11/16/2007, -0/+1Keep hoping.
  • KirbyMeister, on 11/15/2007, -2/+33They never even advertised it outside of the Internet. And they expect it to sell millions of copies on release week on hype ALONE?!
  • rhgtp, on 11/15/2007, -6/+3I think its funny this headline appeared on my front page directly above the headline "Major Leaps In PS3 Visuals For At Least Four more years"
  • Hetman, on 11/15/2007, -12/+4zack and wiki = horrible name. Should have called it mario puzzle extreme. It would have sold millions.
    • FoxOrian, on 11/15/2007, -1/+4You really should have just not bothered.
  • mattdanis, on 11/15/2007, -1/+40Until I read the IGN review I never even heard of it. There's your problem.
  • Gnusto, on 11/15/2007, -1/+9A lack of advertising, coupled with a lack of stores that bothered to carry it didn't / doesn't help the game. I live within about 5 miles of 3 separate EBs, none which carried this game or had even heard of it. Same goes for local Wal Mart, Target, and Best Buy. I'd love to try it as it looks great, but I'm the last person on Earth who doesn't buy anything online so it's just not an option.
    • brownhound, on 11/16/2007, -0/+0anecdotal i guess, but the walmart by me had it - that's where i bought it. great game.
    • Goombellaofgoom, on 11/16/2007, -0/+1Same story here, sort of. I tried tons of stores (Target, Walmart, Toysrus, 2 EBs, 3 Gamestops, Bestbuy, and Gamecrazy), and none of these had Z&W on release day. None of the employees I asked had heard of it, and they had to check their computers to see that they didn't have any coming in. The last place I checked, Gamecrazy (Hollywood Video's gamestore) said that they might be getting some in, and to check back in a couple days. I did and they finally had it so I got it.

      You might want to ask if you can get your preferred store to order one for you. It wouldn't be that hard for them to get a couple copies with their regular game order, and you don't have anything to lose by trying.
  • nblsavage, on 11/15/2007, -2/+8Never even heard of it.
  • 1nhuman, on 11/15/2007, -1/+24Come on. I never heard of this game until now. And I read digg hourly. I'm definitely going to buy it. Must be a marketing issue.
  • Aeronaught, on 11/15/2007, -1/+8Maybe if Capcom had made enough copies to put more than freaking 2 in each store. Every Gamestop/EB/etc. I went to was sold out; give us the goods, and then we'll deliver.
    • cgeorge, on 11/15/2007, -1/+1Maybe Gamestop/EB didn't order many copies because no one had a clue what the hell it was? If Gamestop doesn't think people want it, they're not going to order it, and then you can't get it off their shelf. And without any hype, what's to make them think it'll be any good? They didn't have an IGN review to go on when making that call. Their re-order will likely be bigger, but re-orders at the corporate level don't happen that quickly.
  • tacklebox, on 11/15/2007, -10/+5Never heard of zach and whatever. I have a wii, its kind of lame without people to play with. I might have to check the game out. Once I'm done with Halo, bioshock, Mass effect, assassin's creed and call of duty 4. sigh.
    • Elranzer, on 11/16/2007, -1/+4FPS after FPS after FPS after FPS... really diverse game collection you got there.
      • KrustyTClown, on 11/16/2007, -5/+1Kind of like, mini game after mini game after mini game....
  • samdu, on 11/15/2007, -16/+6The "Wii Crowd" wants mini-games and non-games. It's the market Nintendo has been pursuing. I don't know why this is a surprise.
    • GreyICE, on 11/15/2007, -3/+9Mini-games and non-games. Like Metroid: Prime 3, Mario galaxy, and Twilight Princess.

      Oh wait, real games involve someone with a hideously generic name using a bunch of generic guns to kill generic aliens.
  • dolemite43, on 11/15/2007, -1/+12terrible marketing. IGN is the only place I heard about this game.
  • Buddhaismybuddy, on 11/15/2007, -3/+6How can you gauge the success of a whole genre off of one game?
    • samdu, on 11/15/2007, -6/+4Super Mario Galaxy has had very disappointing sales in Japan (it's actually tracking behind Super Mario Sunshine on the GC - that's BAD). As did Zelda. Looking at the entirety of Wii software sales, it's valid to be concerned about "real" games on the platform. Third party and "real" games just aren't selling as well as they should be considering the install base.
    • samdu, on 11/15/2007, -8/+3Fully expected the downward diggs. Believe what you want, but the 360 is obliterating the Wii in software sales. Consistently. And it now has officially fewer units in the wild.
    • WhereAmI, on 11/16/2007, -0/+2This is what people feared would happen, and its what you'll continue to see. The Wii is a simple toy, its not a game console. Its like selling Japanese style RPGs on the 360. Theres a REASON Eternal Sonata is being made for the PS3 now. Another game was Blue Dragon that did poorly.
  • yohnstoppable, on 11/15/2007, -2/+7It's the stupid name that keeps it from selling. If you saw "The Contrabulous Fantraption of Professor Horatio Hufnagel" on the shelves you probably wouldn't buy it.
    • ronh, on 11/16/2007, -0/+1You jest? I would surely purchase said product, but I suffer from lysdexia.
  • TrevorBradley, on 11/15/2007, -4/+1"on the Wii" is extraneous. Watch ZeroPunctuation's review of "Peggle", you'll see what I mean.

    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/edit ...
  • sparr, on 11/15/2007, -8/+2screw complex games. wii users want casual games. *I* want homebrew games. give me one of those mythical $2500 dev kit units and let me publish a wii-store-downloadable game.

    where is the online play that the wii promised us a year ago?
  • sunshinex, on 11/15/2007, -4/+2Go read the About section of their page. It sounds like it would suck. I suspect its sucking has more to do with poor sales.
  • thedmg, on 11/15/2007, -1/+11It's a great game that Capcom had failed to advertise, it's not the fault of the "Wii Crowd" because most don't even know what the hell the game is. The only places I knew of this game were GameTrailers and IGN, and although each site probably has a lot of Wii owners, I don't think it will catch the eye of the casual gamer that wants to play games like Mario Party and Wii Sports.
  • Lindane, on 11/15/2007, -5/+0A game does not please and sparkle if it is too complex.
  • Zarxrax, on 11/15/2007, -2/+12The problem is probably that the game looks like its made for kids. If you saw this on the shelf and had no idea what it was, you'd probably think it was some crappy licensed game based on a kids show.
    Name one other point and click adventure game that was aimed at kids and sold well. All the ones I can think of were aimed at teens or adults. Maniac Mansion, Sam and Max, Full Throttle...
    Ok so most of the adult population will ignore the game right there. Now how about the kids? Well, its NOT a licensed game based on some crappy cartoon, so they aren't going to care either!

    Games like this need to appeal to a large audience. Games don't have to have "adult content" (i.e. violence, strong language, sex) in order to appeal to adults. However, if you want your game to appeal to adults, then you better not make it look like its aimed at 4-year-olds. This isn't rocket science.
  • sinoth, on 11/15/2007, -1/+2It seems to be a rather large jump from one game selling poorly to thinking complex games won't sell on the Wii. Next time they should try 'marketing', preferably in Boston.
  • aqzman, on 11/15/2007, -1/+1It's too bad the game didn't sell too well, I keep hearing great things about it.

    I'm planning to get it around Christmas time, it'd be nice to add a few challenging games to my Wii collection.
  • gudnbluts, on 11/15/2007, -0/+1I'm not much of a gamer as such, I don't think I'd even played one game in the five years before I bought a Wii. I honestly haven't heard of Zack and Wiki before this thread. My game buying has been based on doing quick searches on the internet for people's top Wii games and it's never come up as "play Zack and Wiki - it's the best game ever".

    So maybe that's why it hasn't sold.
    • WhereAmI, on 11/16/2007, -0/+2See, here is what I'm talking about. The massive amount of Wii owners bought it on hype and they want simple fun games. They aren't gamers.
  • rz8472, on 11/15/2007, -0/+2I would expect it to be easier to have complex games on the Wii than the other consoles. Just replace the function of the mouse with the Wiimote and you could probably clone most RTS games (minus the key shortcuts).
  • Ub3rg33k, on 11/15/2007, -0/+4I've looked for it and no one in the North Atlanta area seems to carry the game. Various BB, Target, and Gamestops have all come up empty for me. Target and BB didn't even have shelf space that indicated that they carried the game. The two Gamestop locations had two copies and were currently out of stock.
  • crazyhorse13, on 11/15/2007, -1/+5It's a failure because it had no marketing.
  • thecrazyd, on 11/15/2007, -0/+3I don't think it is the complexity so much as releasing so close to Mario Galaxy, as well as the name and marketing, as discussed above.
  • terryshaw09, on 11/15/2007, -4/+2damn the wii its a kiddie/family system with a very few adult games
  • HCJfilms, on 11/15/2007, -0/+6The problem is there's been absolutely ZERO marketing for the game. The second Capcom saw all these rave reviews for the game they should have developed a marketing strategy for it and really pushed it. What is stopping them from running a few ads on TV displaying all the praise its gotten? Hoping people will see reviews isn't going to cut it anymore.
  • ZenMojo, on 11/15/2007, -2/+3In theory, the Wii seems to be the perfect bridge between complex and casual gaming. The myriad buttons on the Xbox 360 and PS3 can be replaced by simple gestures while still allowing basic controls to be skimmed back.

    This is purely theory. The nunchuk and wiimote are sold separately, forcing you to purchase two halves of one controller for twice the price. Unfortunately, the Wii was marketed as a whole-piece system, so the discovery that you really can't do anything near to what you can do with any other controller on any other system on the market is a bit of a slap to the face. Complex gaming for the Wii is by virtue of an expansion, not by virtue of the system itself, and that is why games like Zack and Wiki don't sell as broadly as they should, because most of the sales of the system were with the Wiimote ALONE in mind, a counterpositive stance against the complexity inherent in the other systems.

    The blunt truth is that the Wii has a capacity for hardcore gaming but that's not why most people bought it...it's almost the OPPOSITE of why people bought the simple, sleek, Xbox-quality graphics Wii.
    • gudnbluts, on 11/15/2007, -0/+1What are you talking about? I've never seen a Wii sold without a nunchuck and wiimote.
    • atomicpoet, on 11/16/2007, -0/+1You are right about hardcore gamers -- which is why I'm so surprised when hardcore gamers complain that there are no games for the Wii. Fact of the matter is that there are lots of great games for the way, just nothing for hardcore gamers. Of course, when I'm referring to "hardcore", I'm not meaning retro gamers. Retro gamers love the Wii. Hell, anyone who spent the 80s in an arcade loves the Wii.

      However, about Zack and Wki, you are plainly wrong. This is a game that wouldn't sell on any system. Seriously, change the platform and suit it up on a different controller (which is probably impossible), and I don't think it would sell. Viva Pinata didn't sell, did it? The fault clearly belongs with marketing. They should have. at the very least, changed the name of the game.
  • Lonecow, on 11/15/2007, -0/+3The game is awesome, but they should have teamed up with Lucas Arts, brought in Ron Gilbert, scrapped all the character designs and writing for the game and turned it into Monkey Island 5.
  • cjschmidt, on 11/15/2007, -1/+3Z&W is a fantastic game hidden behind grossly inappropriate character designs, writing, and marketing. The whole thing was japanese little-kid baby-talk cutesy crap. The actual gameplay was very much aimed at older players. If you rebranded the exact same game with Sam n' Max style and some snarky humor and it would have been a hit.

    100% Capcom's fault.
  • jizzlies, on 11/15/2007, -0/+5I never heard of it, so maybe marketing is to blame as well.
  • HypocriteDigg, on 11/15/2007, -0/+3I think it has more to do with lack of marketing for that game than anything else.
  • benitojuarez, on 11/15/2007, -0/+4Ive never heard of this game, the name certainly doesnt have an awe inspiring ring to it, And if i had to make a purchase decision based solely on the cartoony image from the article, I would give it a pass. To me it looks like some anime show cash in.
  • rivasj, on 11/15/2007, -3/+2Complex games on the Wii? If they are cartoonish and somehow incorporate Mario...instant hit!
  • NathanielJ, on 11/16/2007, -0/+3Please, the "failure" of Zack and Wiki doesn't show anything about complex games on the Wii, it shows that games that aren't marketed in any way, that are given a terrible name, and that have no built-in market won't sell well.

    Lesson learned.
  • tekrat, on 11/16/2007, -1/+2'In such a scenario, the message being sent to publishers is loud and clear: more party, less epic.'

    This article misses the point of what made games fun and sell in the late 70's, 80's, and the early 90's and will sell games on the Wii today. The games were fun. They were games that had a bit of a back story, likeable characters, decent graphics, and a challenge that began at an easy level and gradually increased. Let’s look at some of the hits:

    * Sonic - Saving Mobius from Robotnic, uses rings for protection and power ups, play out the changing levels.
    * Mario - Saving the Mushroom Kingdom from Kuppa/Bowser, uses mushrooms and stars for protection and power ups, play out the changing levels.
    * Metriod - Saving the whole freaking universe from Metriods and Space Pirates, uses energy orbs for protection and search for power ups, explore changing levels.
    * Kid Icuras - Saving the world from Medusa and egg plant wizards (?), uses hearts for protection and search for power ups, explore changing levels.
    * Zelda - Saving Hirule from Gannon, uses hearts for protection and search for power ups, explore changing levels.

    Gosh, quite a few of those sound pretty complex and those games are on the Wii. I wish the author would catch a clue and see that people *want* challenging games on any system. They just don't want a game that is mind numbing hard like this Capcom game.

    That also where reviewers get it wrong. THEY PLAY GAMES PROFESSIONALLY! What is fun and mildly challenging to them is hard as hell to bulk of us. Mario Party looks like it has fun mini-games. Mario Galaxy looks hard as hell. You’ve got to jump on parana plants the size of planets.
  • gamemaker, on 11/16/2007, -0/+2The only thing Zak and Wiki shows is that people don't buy games that they DON"T ***** KNOW ABOUT.
    I haven't seen one commercial or advertisement for this game. For an original game, that's suicide. Hell even licensed games get more marketing than that. As opposed to Mario ... where I seeing commercials on mainstream TV the day it's available on shelves.
    Wow what a surprise, don't market your new product and people don't buy, who woulda thunk it?
  • PooChunk, on 11/16/2007, -5/+2Nobody gives a ***** about zak & wiki. Hell, i don't even care about the Wii and I love Nintendo. I'll be playing Ninja Gaiden on my DS and won't be playing the Wii till they stop releasing games I can play for half the price or more on my PS2.
    • atomicpoet, on 11/16/2007, -0/+1Zack and Wiki already has a cult following. I suspect in a couple of years, this will be a game that will fetch a high value on eBay.
  • zelgadissan, on 11/16/2007, -1/+2Maybe if it wasn't called ***** Zack and Wiki people would buy it.
  • xerus, on 11/16/2007, -0/+1Capcom doesn't care about Zack and Wiki it seems. They're too busy with their quadbillionth Megaman game.... not than I'm complaining :I
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