The Digg Crew wants to hear your thoughts!
Please take our short survey about Digg and potential feature ideas.
Do NOT buy the Toronto Sun - Bad Journalism Gives Games Bad Name Again
gamespot.com — It's always been a garbage paper, but this is the last straw. If we as a community don't learn to boycott bad press, it'll never change. Stop buying the Toronto Sun, and if you do buy it regularly, write a letter to the editor to let them know why. Take a look at the cover to the September 14th issue and read the letter to the editor below.
jimmycanuck- 964 diggs
- digg it
- karuberutsu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+44Dugg and emailed the *****. Why must people suck so much?
... can an email get the digg effect?- SPLASTiK, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24"... can an email get the digg effect?"
It seems Ted Steven's tubes are always clogged. - birkoph, on 10/12/2007, -3/+34What's a "newspaper"?
- eplawless, on 10/12/2007, -0/+24Video games didn't do it. Clearly it was Goth Myspace:
http://www.torontosun.com/News/Canada/2006/09/17/1852400-sun.html - chris9902, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14@ birkoph
a "newspaper" is a form or primitive media that people hide behind on the train to work. - BassCadet, on 10/12/2007, -18/+9BLOG SPAM!
The SUN is a joke newspaper and you're using this to bring people to your blog. Shame on you. - defubar, on 10/12/2007, -12/+8If he were any good at video games he would of been able to kill more than one person.
In all seriousness though, blaming video games is just plain stupid. - dmoney06, on 10/12/2007, -12/+5I don't blame him. Whoever made that game is clearly ***** in the head.
- ElectricGrandpa, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Anyone who actually lives in Toronto knows that the Sun is the worst-of-the-worst of all Toronto papers. It's basically just a "tabloid"...
- Jinno, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1Anyone else spot the OTHER proof of bad journalism here?
"Canada Rocks!" ?
Anyone else think they need to check their facts better? - igotdugout, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3People buy the Sun for the sunshine girl, not the news. They always glorify the story to an unimaginable extent. I'd stick with the Toronto Star.
- SPLASTiK, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24"... can an email get the digg effect?"
- latova, on 10/12/2007, -0/+28The toronto sun IS a garbage paper, nobody I know gets it. I read about it in the star, and games were barely mentioned at all in the issue I got.
- twtmc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21Ya, the Toronto Sun is like 99% *****. In all the articles I read in BC's newspaper The Province, video games were only mentioned in the sense that "Oh coarse, some will blame video games for this"
- affanjam, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Hey everybody love the sunshine girls in the back of the paper.
- kettlechips, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9white trash paper
- theragu40, on 10/12/2007, -10/+3Of COURSE it's garbage. Notice the headline on the top of the front page...
"Canada Rocks!"
Do we need further proof of illegitimacy?
- lefrat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Permalink for the blog post: http://www.gamespot.com/pages/profile/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=m-100-24696389&user=jimmycanuck
- shikirocks, on 10/12/2007, -0/+26Truly it is nothing but immature garbage. Even respectable Canadians don't read that paper.
- ImTheDarkcyde, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7it isn't even worth trying to reason with you people. you all freak out at the slightest foul drop of the term 'video games'
guess what, it's just talk. nothing is going to happen. period. - tride, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8I still believe Marilyn Manson is at fault.
Seriously, I heard a quote on the news from a police officer in Montreal saying that he was "an isolated individual who had minimal exposure to anything but violent television and video games." not to mention the Internet through vampirefreaks.com.
I'm no psychologist but given his obvious mental illness you may have a different perception on reality if you surrounded your being in media violence. Someone should have been checking this guy's behavior, like his parents. Perhaps these are external signs of a problem.
Is the video game, or the Internet at fault? Hardly.- Etheo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'd call games and internets spurious variables in a correlation. The guy is already imbalanced, and he just happen to like playing those games because it fits his desires. Does that mean he won't go on a killing spree without those games? Hardly. It's just a coinciding factor between his mind and the outcome.
- tizz66, on 10/12/2007, -0/+27Since there's no proven link between the two, the paper headline should really have been 'Video game killer?'. Then they wouldn't be *saying*, they'd just be *asking*.
Anyhoo, I'll e-mail the letter too, even though I'm not from Canada, because this kind of sensationalist journalism is ridiculous wherever it occurs.- drunkendash, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Dugg for the Daily Show reference =)
- Kniggit, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Actually there isn't a good Toronto paper to read at all. Think the Star is any better? It's pretty much the same sensationalism but on different topics.
Remember: newspapers generate money and will do anything to make that money. ANY of them. - J1X1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3It doesn't matter if anything will come of it. It is a claim based off of no scientific fact. There is no evidence to suggest that video games cause violence. Publishing this article will draw even more criticism towards the industry. All this is slander, probably written so people will even look at the crappy paper.
- wbsiii, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1there is a preponderance of evidence that exposure to violent media (including video games) causes aggressive behavior, as well as decreases pro-social behavior. this newspaper is obviously using sensational journalism as no one would argue that only playing violent video games caused this individual to commit this act, but it is untrue to claim that there is no scientific evidence that violent video game play causes violent behavior.
- nuvem, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1wbsii: Causes or is correlated with? There's a huge difference between violent media causing violent behaviour and violent people seeking out violent media.
- wbsiii, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1nuvem: violent video game play causing aggressive cognitions, aggressive behavior, and aggressive affect has been replicated time and time again in experimental settings. Anderson and Bushman (2001) have a good metaanalytic review:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11554666&dopt=Citation
if your point is that the longitudinal study results correlating violent media habits (among other factors) to violent behavior does not imply causation as a result of the nature of correlational study design, i would reply that the mantra "correlation is not causation" is a good way to understand the limitations of correlational design, but in reality where we have ethical and logistical considerations and cannot control all confounding variables, using the corroborating results of longitudinal, correlational, and experimental studies does give supporting evidence to a causal effect.
- everymahn, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5Two words: Sunshine Girl
http://www.torontosun.com/SUNshineGirl/home.html- xr56n44, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3ggggACK!!! Alana needs to drop at least 20 pounds, what a porkette
- hobnob, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2nahhh, Alana is actually pretty damn sexy
lemme guess, seeing a chick's rib cage = that's hot ?
- andrewguy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8For people who need a quick link to the email: editor@tor.sunpub.com
- aywwts4, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Do not buy the Toronto Sun -
Done.
Now its up to every digg reading, video gamer who gets his news from a supermarket newspaper to continue this embargo. I'm sure we are pretty much The Sun's target demographic too.
(Note, this is sarcasm) - sprintmarathon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8The Toronto Sun is a blue collar rag that presents material at a grade four reading level.Their approach to journalism is bombastic and sensationalist: asserting arguments that would only seem reasonable to people with a limited intellectual capacity and educational background. It seems pointless to me to wag your finger at them and expect a higher standard given the publications target demographic.
Come to think of it, the reason the Sun might want to diminish the appearance of gaming to its readers is because it sees itself in direct competition with the gaming industry for the attention of under-motivated and dim consumers. Oh, and homicidal maniacs too...- beotch, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Don't insult blue collars, people that read that ***** are so stupid they would have had to study and practice being stupid. My elected officials come to mind.
- hobnob, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0bury @ beotch
blue collar workers are what run the country, really,
be it Canada or usa
- InsaneHomer, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2I bet George Bush never played that game and he's killed a helluva lot more than 1, not to mention he likes the odd bit of illegal detention and torture? Did he per chance play Command and Conquer?
What correlation can we draw from that?
Did the game sell him the guns and ammo?
He liked the game because he was ALREADY a nut job, it didn't make him into one... at least try blaming his parents, the bullies or TV 1st ffs!
piss poor journalism strikes again :.(- pointblank187, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I think that's part of the problem. Even if there was a correlation between video games and violence, correlation is not causation.
- wulfflower, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13I truely hope no one here sends a letter/email along the lines of....
OMG WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU IDIOTS YOU DESERVE TO DIE!!!!1!! OMG!
Please... I really hope not. Send something that doesnt make things worse for us all. - jatlasb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Okay, the Sun is about as respectable as the National Enquirer. It's a tabloid. They make stupid gaudy headlines in the hopes that SOMEBODY will be dumb enough to read it. This is the kind of paper that puts up a picture of Godzilla with the caption "Tokyo's new Bioweapon?"
Get real, anybody who takes this paper seriously has bigger problems than video games.- jatlasb, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2Dugg down for even giving a publication like the Sun this kind of attention.
- Parasocks, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2You're thinking of "The Sun" newspaper from England. We're talking about "The Toronto Sun" newspaper from Canada. It is not a tabloid, it is a real newspaper that covers real events.
It's also only $0.50, written for a grade 8 reading level (grade 4 someone said, that's just ridiculous) and they use very catchy sometimes over the top headlines to get people to buy their newspaper. It is aimed at the blue collar segment of society (hence the 50 cents). My guess is they'll make it free soon enough on weekdays, like The Metro and 24. - masonreloaded, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3No. You're wrong. The Sun from England is a "tabloid" but the term in England only really refers to the layout and less formal writing - it is still a respectable(ish) paper that doesn't (blatantly) make ***** up. The only paper in England that is like an american "tabloid" is the Daily Sport - which does indeed run reports about Elvis and the Loch Ness monster being found in bed together...
- Parasocks, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Then I've learned something today! Thank you. Still, the below quote has no bearing whatsoever on the Toronto Sun newspaper.
"Okay, the Sun is about as respectable as the National Enquirer. It's a tabloid. They make stupid gaudy headlines in the hopes that SOMEBODY will be dumb enough to read it. This is the kind of paper that puts up a picture of Godzilla with the caption "Tokyo's new Bioweapon?""
- bluemeep, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Why, this paper looks to be as high calibur and hard hitting as the Weekly World News. Oh, that Bat Boy... What hijinks will he have next?
- teddyrux, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Dugg.
RIP Anastasia DeSousa - nohart, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2lets digg effect the toronto sun.
- CDRutledge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1His editorial is really weak. Although I think what the Toronto Sun's headline was about as tasteless as the title for the "Super Columbine Massacre RPG." If you want someone to respect what you have to say then maybe you should use a better title.
The creators of "Super Columbine Massacre RPG" really have some explaining to do about that title. - 1310nm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Just stop validating these tool's writings by launching disingenuous boycott campaigns that you know won't gain footing anyway. Anyone who writes anything relating to people killing each other due to video game induced psychosis should not be given a reason to do it again (read: actually wasting brain cells reading the garbage).
- bouche, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4personally, the photo itself was WRONG. it helped glorify the arsehole to other disturbed individuals out there. Imagine being a family member of the girl who was killed and seeing that evil guy pointing a gun on every newsstand!
They ran the same cover in Ottawa with a different headline...and it was actually pulled and replaced before noon.
I'm glad someone took the time to write a shared letter, but I will certainly add my 2 cents about the photo chosen as well. - canrocks, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Sheila Copps, what are you doing working for them? WHATT??
http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Copps_Sheila/ - gxcdesign, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1If you guys are saying that video games didn't motitvate or contribute at all to his killing spree, get a life.
Seriously he just didn't take the responsiblity to maintaining the difference between video games and reality.
Hell I'll subscribe to the Sun just for ***** and giggles- bouche, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I think the point is that they sensationalized the fact that he had a list of favourite games. It wasn't just the columbine massacre game, and it wasn't even at the top of his list. I'm not sure if you saw his blog which was posted, but he had about 50 games that he liked including warcraft 3. Why didn't the media suggest that his love of Warcraft 3 was the cause? The media misused the words for gaming and put undue blame upon games.
I'm playing Resident Evil 4 right now, and I'm killing dudes that aren't even zombies. They've got a virus of some sort. It's a game. I dont' care how violent a game gets, it's still a game. *****-for-brains was 25, he wasn't a casuality of vids like some 13 year old newbie. He was an adult that was ***** up.
- bouche, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I think the point is that they sensationalized the fact that he had a list of favourite games. It wasn't just the columbine massacre game, and it wasn't even at the top of his list. I'm not sure if you saw his blog which was posted, but he had about 50 games that he liked including warcraft 3. Why didn't the media suggest that his love of Warcraft 3 was the cause? The media misused the words for gaming and put undue blame upon games.
- right-h.man, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2i don't comment much but this is a good article on digg
i'm a long time sun reader but as of today i'm going to stop until they make some changes
its very sad that this has happened - i will probably switch over to the national post - mastahack, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2GO GTA!!!!!!!!!!! (GREATER TORONTO AREA!)
- nevenmrgan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0The letter is dumb, as are all the points and comparisons you make.
The newspaper cover was dumb as well, but this doesn't distract from your own perspective-lacking rantings. - Yage2006, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Who the hell still buys news paper's anyway ?
I don't by any and nobody should.
Save the tree's :) - pollyparrot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2What if you happen to agree with the idea that violent video games are symptomatic of a larger problem with Western culture -- a culture that seems to pride itself on self-reliance to the point of belligerence and self-sufficiency beyond the point of greed? A child sitting down to kill the latest anthropomorphic alien seems not so dissimilar from bringing your children to the Circus Maximus to watch the charioteers crushed under hoof, or watching the humiliations of 'reality TV' so dissimilar from watching the staged dramas and deaths of the Colosseum.
- Parasocks, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4The romans used to bring in live jungle animals from Africa to maul people as entertainment for the masses. They got the idea from a video game, obviously.
- Avili, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"The Toronto Sun" is and has always been a joke! They're the only newspaper that I know of, that has a section dedicated to "Girls". I mean the only reason people buy their BS of a paper is to probably oggle the sunshine girl (basically a daily foldout of a skantly clad girl).
I wouldn't take anything they publish seriously, let alone - one columnist even wrote an article on his blog saying that he knew his career was at a standstill when he began writing for the Sun. There also one of the only newspaper to carry headlines "Women gives birth to 3 headed goat". - emjaymj, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2what male adolescent DOESNT play violent video games, ESPECIALLY somebody who would do something sick like this? doesnt it make about 100 times more sense that a person with such violent tendencies would naturally just be drawn to more violent video games?
- shintriad, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1So, like, you guys are pissed because this newspaper made the obvious, provable connection that psycho mass murderers are also into extremely violent video games?
I knew gamers were losers, but indignant losers? Wow. You guys must get ALL the ladies.
Useless friggin' twerps.
Oh, and please don't flame me and/or shoot my dog. - swazo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I phoned her, but I got the voice mail. I assume countless others are doing the same.
The message I left was along the lines of :
Hello,
Whether you listen to this or not, I don't really care:
In regards to your article, "Stay home, you freaks!"
You really should learn more about the culture before making such large attacks. "Freaks". You call them freaks as if they are the scum of the world. Do you honestly wonder what makes these kids tick and explode in such violent manners? The two kids from the Columbine attacks did what they did because of constant harassment and teasing, they were also referred to as "freaks". In regards to the columbine attack, I blame it not only on the boys who took things too far, but on people like you who feel a need to cut these people with your tongue.
The Montreal attacks are incredibly tragic and we should all take our moments to grieve. How can you go out of your way to blame this on video games? Are you that incompetent? Before you start talking out of your ass, try regaining some Journalistic Integrity, as impossible as that may sound. - strangehold, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Hi,
I'm a reporter with the National Post (another national daily newspaper based in Toronto) and I wrote the story inquiring about a connection between Mr. Gill and violent video games. As an avid video game player myself, I tried to stay as objective as possible when writing the story, but it's almost unavoidable to not make a link between what Mr. Gill played and why he did what he did.
Studies have shown that aggressive video games do heighten aggressive tendancies in adolescents that exhibit violent behaviour and I got other good quotes about an individual's mental state when he exhibits obsessive traits, as evidenced from his writings. However, those tidbits were cut from the article.
You can read it here:http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/corrections/news/story.html?id=63e316b8-f23e-431c-a030-9d957114bfea
A side tidbit, Jack Thompson, whom you all must be aware of, contacted our newsroom to talk to him about what was going on. His phone numbers were passed onto me but needless to say, I did not want that man of his reputation contributing to an article which, again, I tried to write as objectively as possible.- jimmycanuck, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0First, I just wanted to congratulate you on a fantastic article.
Having written the post that this digg leads to, I just wanted to clarify my intent. My issue was with the Sun using a sensational headline that implicated video games as the motivation behind these killings.
I'm completely willing to accept that Kimveer Gill was a violent person who was drawn to violent things, video games included. But arguing that violent video games lead to violent acts in stable people is like arguing that a heterosexual could become a homosexual just because they went to a gay bar. There's something that's already there, and if it's gonna happen it's gonna happen, bar or not. - sprintmarathon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@ stranglehold
I wonder if there are any studies documenting aggressive acts perpetrated by young males who exhibit violent behavior or antisocial tendencies who are given legal, registered access to high powered assault weapons? Isn't it more appropriate to ask how an individual who in hindsight is so obviously unstable was permitted to acquire such an arsenal?
The whole video game angle just seems like such a soft story to me. You are really only going to see incidents of violent behavior triggered in people that lack the capacity to differentiate reality from fiction. Individuals with a compromised mental state are just as likely to be triggered by stimulus that is totally unrelated to video games: say perhaps from living in their parents basement in their 20s, playing DnD and listening to death metal all day long. We really need to be asking how it was that he got his hands on the guns in the first place. - sprintmarathon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1But digg for your post none-the-less :)
Your article was way better.
- jimmycanuck, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0First, I just wanted to congratulate you on a fantastic article.
- Nick22, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2hmm.. i wonder if anyone ever stops and thinks Hey, maybe these guys play violent video games because oh i dono..THEYRE VIOLENT? durr. Not the other way around.
- strangehold, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@ sprintmarathon.
I replied to the digg article in the same context as it was presented, which is video games and its association with the Montreal shooter.
Asking me a pointed question about Mr. Gill's access to guns isn't something that I believe I could answer in the near future. Police are still asking themselves that in their investigation. If you want to talk about that, I suggest another forum which I would be happy to participate in.
As for the angle being "soft", I encourage you to pour over Mr. Gill's blog postings, all 20 pages of them, like I have, and try to avoid a video game reference in any of them. Like it or not, video games were a major part of Mr. Gill's life and it is something we need to look at when examining the reasons why he decided to do what he did. - eMuleDude, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1That paper has always been more about tabloid style news than real news. It's a right wing rag that has never had much credibility.
- Parasocks, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1The argument that violent video games need to be looked at is a bit silly if you ask me. Ask yourself the following questions.
Is a delusional violent person more attracted to violent video games?
Is a normal level headed person who plays violent video games more likely to commit mass murder?
Decompile! - Guy0510, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Dugg and letter sent!
- astroboiii, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1nobody reads the sun here anyways. It's known to be read by low class citizens and dullards usually. What kind of paper can respect itself after being mostly known for it's last page. (atleast I know that's the page I go straight for when I grab the free one's at fast food joints =D.
For those who don't know, the last page has the "sunshine girl" =D.
National Post ftw. - Oogler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The Sun is a total rag in every sense.
- cheesehead, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The Sun (aside from the Sunshine Girls) is only one, of the many crappy papers controlled by a handful of vested interests in Canada.
This is a fatal flaw in our so-called North American democracy.
Lyin Brian Mulrooney the Tory was directly responsible for creating our one version media concentration by dropping the combines act and allowing all our little papers to be swallowed up by the big bucks.
I laugh my ass off every time I see his buddy Conrad Black the Canadian media mogul, trying to steal documents, being caught and then dragged back into court. Maybe the Americans can hang him. Canadians are too polite.
The Victoria Times Colonist also sensationalized the photos of the nutbar university killer.
In a later edition, their front page carried a large picture of some old geezer in a cowboy hat who is ill and won't be able to sell honey at the market anymore. Meanwhile the story of Tory Steven Harper's increasing our Afghan commitment and number of Canadian troops, to Bush's "Whar on Terr"... was consigned to a back page. This is not a news service it's a disinformation system
I cancelled all my subscriptions and now get my information from around the world, via the Internet. It saves trees and why pay for propaganda? - NanoStuff, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1To the editor:
I was playing a game,
In this game I was a crazy assassin with a vendetta against irresponsible journalists. The methods my character used to resolve the problem were rather brutal and barbaric.
The recent article is a proof positive counter-claim against it's very own assumptions. The fact I'm writing a frustrated reply rather than loading a hand gun demonstrates this nicely.
And no, I don't buy the Toronto Sun. Try and guess why. - Quash, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3People neglect to mention the most disturbing piece about the Sun: it is a very politically conservative paper, trying to convince working poor people that the government shouldn't support the working poor. The Sun speaks down to its readers, assuming they're stupid by treating them as if they're stupid, with low grade level writing (often filled with spelling mistakes and grammatical errors) and insulting content and story angles.
Insult the readers of the Sun all you want - that misses the point. It's the editorial control of the Sun and its attempt to manipulate voters toward a conservative agenda that is what people really need to watch out for. - xtremesniper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The Toronto Sun is not a newspaper. It's a tabloid that calls itself a newspaper. I never buy the Sun and I never will buy the Sun.
Read a real newspaper like the Toronto Star or The Globe and Mail. - n8dawg87, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1for those who aren't from the States and may not know what level the Toronto Sun is on, its pretty much the equivalent of your Fox News.
- matokwdd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1SUN sucks, the STAR always has an agenda... the only paper in Canda worth reading is the Globe & Mail
Browsing Digg on your phone just got easier with our enhancements to the 
© Digg Inc. 2008 — Content posted by Digg users is