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Confirmed! XBox360 can transmit a DIGITAL 1080p signal

uk.gear.ign.com — Tons of disinformation out there. We already know a Fall software update will give ANALOG 1080p via component and VGA. Now there's confirmatoin of DIGITAL 1080p ability. Microsoft is simply waiting for market demand to catch up.

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  • nklnch, on 10/12/2007, -48/+13You are contributing to the disinformation. Directly from the article that you linked to:

    "IGN: Can the X360 send out a digital signal now, or ever?

    Microsoft: Xbox 360 currently doesn't include a digital out connection for video. Our platform is flexible enough to allow support of a digital connection in the future should we choose to do so."

    So, no, the 360 absolutely can not do digital video output, 1080p or otherwise. Microsoft said they may add this in the future if they choose, but that's a very vague statement at best.
    • opnickc, on 10/12/2007, -4/+27Hence the update to the page.

      "Microsoft just got back to us to clarify the Xbox 360's ability to transmit a digital signal. In short, it can, which means that Microsoft could conceivably release an HDMI cable for the Xbox 360."
    • nklnch, on 10/12/2007, -29/+15I quoted directly from the update to the page that you are referring to.

      Maybe the 360 has the potential to output digital video at some abstract level, but currently, users can't do so. And there are no announced plans or intentions of any kind that will change that.
    • BassCadet, on 10/12/2007, -17/+14I know about 15 people with HD sets and not a single one of them is capable of 1080p.

      Another boat that Sony missed....1080p-capable monitors should have been available from the very beginning. And honestly from what I have seen of 1080p, I don't know if I would be willing to pay double the price for a non-interlaced 1080 signal.
    • negativenancy, on 10/12/2007, -11/+23Well I know 15 people WITH 1080p sets so HAH, it must mean everyone in the world has 1080p sets.

      Anecdotal evidence is NOT evidence.
    • NYC10004, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7To state that the 360 hardware can't produce 1080p is ridiculous. The boys at XBOX just haven't found it necessary yet. They didn't even find HDMI necessary, and trust me, I was pissed about the lack of picture quality I'd miss out on. However, I have an awesome picture on my 36"HD that says different - so they were right. And they're probably right about the 1080p too, cause how many people have an HD let alone a 1080p HD. Even though the 360 can do it, what's the point in doing it, only for a handful of equipped customers?
    • Konklone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@negativenancy:

      Except you failed to convince me you're telling the truth.
    • camix, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3I really don't see what all the hype is about with HDMI. The only real benefit is you get your video and audio through one cable. Whoopi!!! 1080p can be achieved via Component plus it's compatible with most already existing HDTV's. Anyone that doesn't know what HDMI is or what it's really intended for (copy protection) should read:

      http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/122868.html

      I really don't understand all this hype behind HDMI, I guess it's marketing at its best...
    • Kniggit, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4To clear up a few misconceptions...

      The Xbox360, like all platforms of its kind, can support HDMI output by the addition of HDMI transmitter silicon. The way they mean that they can support this is through ITU-R BT.656 output from the display processor attached to the HDMI receiver or through some other proprietary method (highly unlikely given costs). That being said, existing Xbox360s cannot output 1080p except by analog component output unless they build a component-to-HDMI converter. Not a cheap thing to build, quite frankly. It's interesting because it implies the inclusion of at least triple 150MHz digital-to-analog converters from the start (1080i/720p is just under 75MHz). The output raster capability has probably already existed, although it'll be interesting to see how much bandwidth they have such that they can render full 1080p at 60fps or they cheat and render fewer frames and do add/drop frame rate conversion.

      There is also an inaccuracy in the article that says that the aggregate data rate is 3GB/s. Assuming 8-bit output only (I doubt Xbox360 can do 10-bit or 12-bit out) the HDMI interface data rate is 1.485Gbit/s per channel for YCbCr 4:2:2 color space or 148.5MHz analog equivalent. Even the latest crop of HDMI 1.3 receivers can only do 225MHz analog equivalent per channel (2.25Gbit/s)when you actually need to be able to do 300MHz (3Gbit/s/channel).

      TVs with 1080p analog input capability are just starting to enter the market this fall in any decent quantity because DTV chips have only now started to go into production with this capability. You'll otherwise be stuck with 1080i or 720p, plus you'll have to manually adjust the output since component is only a one-way street and can't really communicate back information from the display about the display's capabilities (a feature that HDMI actually does have).
    • gabebear, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1HDMI should be considerably cheaper, as well as be easier, better quality, and DRMed. Analog signals made sense for CRTs, but how many HD TVs are CRTs? I think the simplicity of having only one cable will effect the average consumer. Why the hell did they use a red wire for component when it was already in use?

      HDMI and cablecard are an improvement that I think most pro-sumers will want. The HD landscape will be much more clear in January when the buying frenzy calms down.
    • nklnch, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1Could someone explain why my comment was dug down?
    • acurism, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It states in the article ...

      "Microsoft's current response DOESN'T yet explain how the company can rectify its claimed support of 1080p with the fact that the 360 doesn't support the connection (HDMI) that will actually allow most 1080p HDTVs to display the signal. While the VGA solution may work for a minority of 1080p HDTV owners, we're left wondering if Microsoft is promoting this new 1080p capability primarily to blunt the onslaught of the PlayStation 3, which supports HDMI and 1080p"

      marked as inaccurate
    • ElectricGrandpa, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Could someone explain why my comment was dug down?"

      Um, because you were wrong.

      The 360 is *capable* of digital 1080p out.
  • bpinard, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13I WANT MY DVI ADAPTER NOW!!!!
    • mentill, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Agreed!!
    • electrosoccertu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15You know you really can't notice a difference between component and DVI. If there is one it is so *so* neglibable as to not be worth bothering about. I'm sure there will be enthusiasts that claim they see grains and interference and the like...but that's REALLY pushing it. It simply isn't there.
    • totalinsomniac, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12^^
      Yes that may be true that little difference between DVI and Component exists.
      One major difference is that I could then play a 360 on my computer monitor, which could be very convenient for someone cramped for space.
    • sinembarg0, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4For those of us that can clearly see a difference between DVI and VGA, theres is en even bigger difference between DVI and Component, because component is basically VGA that combines both the horizontal and vertical sync with the green. Also, DVI i sbetter for LCDs because the output is digital from the lcd controller to the lcd itself, so it doesnt make sense to go from digital (computer & graphics card) > analog (DAC on graphics card) > digital (LCD controller). there is quality loss each conversion.
    • neoian, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2i use the VGA cable and an adapter. works fine here. Beautiful picture too!
  • isewise, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10There is a difference between "can" as in "its possible" and "can", I can go buy a HDMI or DVI connector at EB right now.
  • Pharaoh777, on 10/12/2007, -21/+4Upconversion is not the same as if it were native.
    • Eztli, on 10/12/2007, -3/+24Microsoft already stated that the X360 supports games running NATIVELY in 1080p. Not upscaling. They specifically said it is not just upscaling.
    • SimonX314, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Did you read the interview?

      IGN: Will games begin to be developed with 1080p as the native resolution, or is the 360's new 1080p support an advance in the console's internal scaling abilities?

      Microsoft: If developed, the Xbox 360 will support playback of NATIVE 1080p games and all existing Xbox 360 titles can be up-scaled to 1080p.
    • Rousterfar, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3Actually, he is partly right. All current games will be up-converted and we will see some native games.
  • foolfromhell, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Im getting a 360 this month, and I read a link on Digg a few hours ago saying Amazon will give a free copy of Gears of War with every 360. could someone clarify this for me? Thanks.....
    • nreynolds, on 10/12/2007, -29/+6don't get a 360 unless you get GoW with it. There aren't any good games (i have a 360 and have resorted to playing classic ps1 games - Legend of Legia - greatest game ever, if anyone else knows about it, you're my hero). I'm waiting for GoW and Halo3 but I recently discovered a bank account with ~$400 so I'll be getting a ps3 come november/december (if i can find one).
    • lakawak, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11nreynolds...did it ever occur to you that someone else's taste in games might be different than yours?
    • JaytB, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10@ nreynolds
      There aren't any good games?
      For the RPG fans: Oblivion
      Tactical shooter fans: Ghost Recon advanced warfighter
      FPS fans: call of duty 2
      Racing fans: PGR3
      Need I go on? I can't believe you haven't enjoyed any games on the 360, I know I do and still do. True, there not that many great titles yet but they are there and more to come.
    • darthsnoopy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@Jaytb
      Don't forget the alternative titles for 'other tastes'
      For the RPG fans: Enchanted Arms / Final Fantasy
      Tactical shooter fans: Battlefield 2
      FPS fans: Prey
      Racing fans: Burnout
      Zombie fans: Dead Rising
      Platform: Tomb Raider: Legend
      Arcade: Street Fighter 2
      Puzzle: Zuma / Hexic

      I agree, I can't belive he's not enjoyed any games on 360 either...some of the games are not exclusive, but on 360 they're in HD and hook up to XBL
    • Charlatan22, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I saw something about that, and the amazaon site said you got a free *pre-order* of gears of war when u purhcased an xbox360 in october. Whether that means you will recieve the game free (Unlikely imo) or they will take the honor of righting your name on a list that will reserve you a copy for **free**, I am not sure because the offer is not worded very well. So meh...
  • staticneuron, on 10/12/2007, -7/+5The point of this is? So MS backtracked on the 1080p is impossible for games claim. THe reason why many people were harping on the high end PS3 was because of the posibility that HDCP would be enabled on the movie. If I am not mistaken HDCP security is located on a chip. Besides the wonderful advantage of viewing the games over DVI how does this help the ICT situation? Or is everyone willing to believe that they will hold out on the DRM until either media is firmly rooted?
    • Rayonic, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3They never said that 1080p gaming was impossible. Just that it probably isn't worth the detail tradeoff for the bump in resolution.

      Rendering more pixels means you have to sacrifice polygons, textures, special effects, or framerate. (versus the same game running at 720p, which is still 1280x720 you know).
    • staticneuron, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"Scott openly offered his opinion, stating: "I think 1080p, just to address that directly, will be basically impossible. I think if you talk to any developer they will tell you that they will not have a performing game at 1080p.""

      Scott Henson, Director, Game Technology Group, Microsoft - March 21, 2006

      http://games.kikizo.com/news/200603/101.asp
  • EXreaction, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Confirmed now?

    I knew about this for the last few months...
  • trunkster, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Secret Weapon Sony Killer Attack!
  • snowwolf, on 10/12/2007, -11/+3The "Update" from the IGN editors is overly optimistic based on the information in the interview (from which the update is based on).

    "Xbox 360 currently doesn't include a digital out connection for video. Our platform is flexible enough to allow support of a digital connection in the future should we choose to do so."
    "Platform"- are they referring to the capabilities of the internal hardware? My guess is yes, based on the use of platform over xbox360 and the fact that they say "currently doesn't include" implying an update of the output or motherboard of the 360 is necessary for digital output.

    "we have a solution and it is a free upgrade for them"
    Solution sounds more like "plan" and why the hell would they give away free HDMI cables when most consumers would gladly buy them. Much like Nintendo did (initially) after removing the digital out on the gamecube, users could call up and ask for one that you could put component cables on. Microsoft will most likely allow you to call up and with proof of purchase of a 1080p projector or HDTV, exchange your xbox360 for one with updated hardware that has digital output and therefore support for HDMI.

    This is my guess, because Microsoft is very vague. If you can add a HDMI cord, why not just come and say "we don't want to sell one yet" instead of the fancy wording this representative uses to explain that it "doesn't currently offer the ability" and then explains why it doesn't support HDMI. I bet the newest update on the 360, with the 65nm CPU will support full digital output via HDMI.

    TLDR: Microsoft sucks, and needs to learn how the hell you explain stuff that is easy to understand and leaves us with more questions than answers.
    • NYC10004, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5TLDR: Microsoft sucks, and needs to learn how the hell you explain stuff that is easy to understand and leaves us with more questions than answers.

      Microsoft did say that, right out of the gate.

      "as the market matures, we will provide an HDMI for our customers when it makes sense. The reality is, you don’t need HDMI for HD gaming.”

      There's nothing vague about it at all.
  • Splitt3rxx, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4I don't See why DVI is a necessity, my 17" LCD can do a beautiful 1280x1024 and it uses VGA.... why would you need DVI for an HD signal?
    • snowwolf, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4DVI supports DRM (HDCP) on the video signal, while VGA does not. DVI also has higher resolution support, and is a digital signal while VGA is analog. Some say they see a difference in the quality, I don't, but i suppose if your running 1080p versus 1280X1024 you may. The main reason for DVI/HDMI is the HDCP and the fact that they are both pretty much the standard connections on new TVs and projectors.
    • y2tattle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1for 17inch you don't need 1080p so don't worry about it. I wonder how much the HDMI adapter would cost?
  • ronaldst, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6DOAXBV2 is going to be great at 1080p. :D

    http://games.teamxbox.com/xbox-360/1490/Dead-or-Alive-Xtreme-2/
  • zeejay, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Just because it can do it doesn't mean that it'll be able to do it well -- keep in mind that even though the numbers look "close" on paper, 1080p is actually 225% more pixels than 720p.

    They could implement 1080p now, but a) it'd add a little cost, and they're already operating in the red, and b) the lack of support and underwhelming results when it *is* supported at this point in the console's lifecycle wouldn't help the cause. If anything, it turns into an Achilles heel -- say there's a kick-ass game with killer graphics and effects that utterly taxes the hardware at 720p. When it doesn't support 1080p, every half-wit poseur game journalist and dumbass forum poster will be deducting points from reviews, complaining that 1080p isn't supported. Because that's what they do.
  • Irimi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1*righteous indignation* OK, This is lame. I really could care less. Kkhuh!
  • HappyScrappy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8The article, in the clarification area says

    "Xbox 360 currently doesn't include a digital out connection for video. Our platform is flexible enough to allow support of a digital connection in the future should we choose to do so."

    The platform was designed with it in mind. That doesn't mean any existing 360 can output HDMI.

    And again, this is in the clarification area. The summary up top summaries this clarification by creating a conclusion that is not supported by the interview text.

    Marked as inaccurate.
    • Jarett, on 10/12/2007, -9/+4Your right HappyScrappy.
      No digital out = no 1080p digital signal. Even a fanboy should be able to understand that.
      Marked as innacurate.
  • daridave, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5The only reason SONY is so eager to put HDMI in there is for Blu-Ray and DRM crap. If it was for game only, they would be doing the same thing Microsoft is -- in other words, Microsoft's way is the right one. "True high def" is nothing more than a carrot.
  • inajeep, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I think MS understands that the majority of the market does not have a 1080p tv nor does it have a reciever that handles HDMI. Which is why they haven't done anything. MS is attempting to counter Sony's marketing regarding HDMI/1080p support or what is a percieved benefit of the PS3 by leaking the information and leaving us guessing what the full abilities are. Neither will help me because I am one of those who has 1080i component supported equipment (HDTVs + A/V receivers) and will not be upgrading for either my 360 or HD-DVD add-on or a unplausable PS3 purchase.
  • velvet396, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1only reason I'd want HDMI is because the rest of my tv's inputs are currently used!
  • Almadiel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Someone didn't read the article. It cannot output digital at all, they are only saying that they might put it in sometime in the future, which would almost certainly require buying a new system. But the X360s that exist now can't, and never will.
  • vuduchild, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This is good news when can finally load some type of XBMC on to it, a homebrew version that is, for xvids/.h264 and the like.
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