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Company WANTS its game pirated!

dragotaur.com — Optional CD-key and no copy-protection, Galactic Civilizations 2 by Stardock claims its success is based on the fact that "we want people to pirate it", says developers.

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  • carpespasm, on 10/12/2007, -344/+38cool
    • Ace2005, on 10/12/2007, -18/+117The Lower something is rated the more people that read it, how else would it have gotten -80diggs? something with +80 diggs would never stand out but hidden ones do, maybe there should be different colours for different levels
    • kimastergeorge, on 10/12/2007, -18/+12That's a great idea, ace. I hope Kevin Rose listens to this suggestion, at least. I digg your comment heartilly. (Or should I negative-digg it...? ;-) )
    • Chozabu, on 10/12/2007, -13/+9ace, that really is a good plan
      right now, the comment system is still not too great compared to slashdots
      making other improvments, instead (or as well as) cloning slashdots would be cool
    • motionblur, on 10/12/2007, -10/+6Ace: I have my filter set to +10 diggs or higher. Therefore I never have to read the rotten comments because they are out of view. I only read the extremely low modded comments out of curiosity, and that's very rare. Good suggestion though.
    • DaPhantom, on 10/12/2007, -3/+71Here's the developers reply on their main page:

      Some site is claiming that we want Galactic Civilizations II to be pirated. That's total rubbish. Of course we DO NOT want our game to be pirated. We're a small company, every lost sale hurts us.

      However, we simply don't think that the way to stop piracy is through invasive copy protection such as CD checks or strict DRM. For that reason, Galactic Civilizations II doesn't include any CD copy protection. We provide a serial # that users can choose to enter when they install and use that unique serial # to download free and frequent updates.

      Our license allows you to install the game onto as many machines that you own that you want as long as only one copy is being used at once. How many sales are lost because people want to have a game on their laptop and desktop and don't want to drag CDs around so choose not to buy the game?

      Our company also makes utility software. We've been around a long time -- 14 years now. Our software gets pirated. We don't like it but piracy is a fact of life. The question isn't about eliminating it, it's about reducing it and trying to make sure that people who would buy your product buy it instead of steal it.

      Our primary weapon to fight piracy is through rewarding customers through convenient, frequent, free updates.

      If you make it easy for users to buy and make full use of your product or service legitimately then we believe that you'll gain more users from that convenience than you'll lose from piracy.

      We realize that some people or companies might feel threatened at any evidence that implies that draconian DRM schemes or CD copy protection may not make that big of a difference in sales.

      For example, we were quite disturbed to discover that the company that makes Starforce provided a working URL to a list of pirated GalCiv II torrents. I'm not sure whether what they did was illegal or not, but it's troubling nevertheless and was totally unnecessary.

      All software is pirated, there's no way around it. We've been making software for over 10 years. We don't like our software being pirated. Like I said, every lost sales has an impact on us. But there are other ways to reduce it than through draconian copy protection systems.

      Incidentally, the site that Starforce linked to "prove" how much our software was being pirated we visited, followed the instructions on the site to get our game removed and the links were removed within a couple of hours. We'll continue to follow-up with them.
    • Spencerocks, on 10/12/2007, -19/+3LEEEEROOOOY JEEEEENKINNNNNNNS!!!!!!
    • mfelkins, on 10/12/2007, -14/+2why the hell did this person get negative 243 diggs for a comment such a "cool"?
  • ShaDoWwork, on 10/12/2007, -190/+13i have said it before i will say it again warez is the future of all software to think its not is stupid.
    • xxsiriusxburnxx, on 10/12/2007, -24/+35Only criticism on this is that Warez is not the future, warez is sites and groups who claim to have what you want only to bombard you with adds and spyware to make there 10 cents a click. The future is just like this title the future is just plain "pirating" theres my 2 cents, no adds no spam no spyware haha
  • 1raZer1, on 10/12/2007, -73/+18Everything should be free...
  • brianpeiris, on 10/12/2007, -6/+64Taken from their wiki (http://galciv.wikicities.com/wiki/Galactic_Civilizations_Wiki):
    Our license allows you to have it on as many machines that you own as long as no more than one copy is being played at a time per license.
    You don't even have to enter in the serial number when you install
    Updates require the serial number.
    They seem like a cool company.
    • theragu40, on 10/12/2007, -6/+43Finally a company that gets it. When companies say they are "losing money" from piracy, that's only very partially true. I think a lot of piracy with games happens when people don't know if they are going to like a game, and a friend has it or they can find it online, so they want to try out the full version. This has happened a few times with me. I don't support piracy of games, don't get me wrong. However, sometimes I will play a burned copy of a game only to purchase it later if I like it. If I had not played the burned copy, I never would have played it at all. In essence, my having played a "pirated" version gained the company money. Now finally it seems as though a company is understanding that people who are pirating the games are people who would not have bought the game anyway. Hopefully some of the other companies decide to reach this level of clarity also (though that is probably just wishful thinking on my part).
    • DigeratiPrime, on 10/12/2007, -8/+23i bought UT2004 for $20 at gamestop and I was extremely pleased with it.
      There is no 'cd check' - no need for a crack - and i can install it on all my computers at home and play lan games.
      It also seems to work on some servers online, ive had 3 computers here with the same key play online on the same server without problems.
    • Crazy_8, on 10/12/2007, -8/+15Yes...UT2k4 is very nice about it. I have it installed on 3 different computers, they can LAN game on the same CD-Key, and even all go online at the same time, but not to the same server. Don't try it with HaloPC though, they even check CD-keys on LAN games. Very anal. UT2k4 > Halo
    • ziffel, on 10/12/2007, -5/+20"They seem like a cool company."

      Stardock is a very cool company. I've bought many of their products, including the amazing Multiplicity. That's why I think it's important that if you play GC2 and like it and decide to keep it, you should pay them for it. Reward the companies that don't treat their customers like criminals! (like that Starforce *****)
    • TheTrueSora, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8I agree, Stardock is probably my favorite non-OSS company. All their skinning software works great, and they don't treat their customers as if everyone will pirate their stuff.
    • r0bm, on 10/12/2007, -6/+6@theragu40: "However, sometimes I will play a burned copy of a game only to purchase it later if I like it. If I had not played the burned copy, I never would have played it at all. In essence, my having played a "pirated" version gained the company money. Now finally it seems as though a company is understanding that people who are pirating the games are people who would not have bought the game anyway."

      Now if only we had a better name for this marketing concept besides piracy...hmmm...How 'bout calling it shareware.
    • northLite, on 10/12/2007, -9/+4UT2k4 removed the CD-check with a patch, before that it checked for the cd.
    • ktetch, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0this kinda relates to another story on here
      http://neuron2neuron.blogspot.com/2006/03/copy-protection-necessary-evil.html

      seems like someone read THAT digg article, and decided to spin it another way
  • ilyag, on 10/12/2007, -4/+42What the hell? It's actually a criticially acclaimed game! How is that possible that I've never heard of this thing before?

    http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/galacticcivilizations2/review.html
  • talor, on 10/12/2007, -6/+56I will buy this game JUST to support this bold move.
    • mindlessxd, on 10/12/2007, -7/+14I wouldn't mind buying the software that I pirate, as long as it's reasonably priced and worth the money.
    • jivemasta, on 10/12/2007, -8/+5I think that is thier master plan. They had to know that them supporting people pirating thier game, would get on digg. Which is free advertisement.(Saving them money) Then on digg, a lot of people will download it and buy it just because they are being cool about it. It seems like a perfect plan to me. I might even buy it.
    • SecretChief, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3That's true of everyone, and not very interesting unless you say what you consider "reasonable".
      I often fork out 25 $ to buy cds of small bands that I love, and I get really pissed when I see people write things like: "charging 12 $ for a cd is highway robbery. I don't really like pirating music, but I will continue to do so until the cds are priced reasonably, like 5 $ each".
    • Seumas, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3Dude, don't buy it just to support the move. Buy it because it's an awesome game! I've been playing it off and on for years (and I paid for it - twice). It's really fun and in-depth. A great little strategy game. Not multi-player, but the AI isn't bad at all. You'll enjoy it, I'm sure!
    • cliffski, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1eh?
      How about you try all the drm free games and buy the ones you actually like?
      heres one:
      www.democracygame.com
      Stardock are cool and GalCiv2 is great, I bought it the day it came out, but they are not the ONLY company doing this. Just the most famous.
    • warwer2000, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0I pirate games all the time and iI don't mind buying them but games these days are so expensive that in order to keep my game library in shape I have to crack them.
  • cirmot, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13I agree. I find more often than not that I buy a program, game, book, etc. after I've gotten it for free via warez, the company or whatever - that is if I like it. I just hate to shell out dollars for something that sucks. The try before you buy concept is OK, but I hate demos. Sometimes two weeks, a month or whatever just isn't enough...I want to try it on my terms and make that decision. I applaud this company!
  • chicken101, on 10/12/2007, -8/+12Is hell freezing over? What next, is the MPAA going to give out free DVDs?

    Here's one geek: dazed and confused.
  • agjimenez, on 10/12/2007, -5/+21I'm pretty sure they don't WANT you to pirate it. But they aren't going to try to prevent it. Try it, like it, buy it!
  • appidydafoo, on 10/12/2007, -8/+5You know... I think this company has a good outlook, and they're asking the question Why Not, rather than Why? If you look at it from the shortsighted perspective of shelf life sales conversions being the number one attribute, you're behind the game. Look at Steam, look at all these game rental services for consoles, look at the account based monthly fee "play all the emulated games from our platform" type services there are. The old models don't work, so I can only say kudos for being a little more lax... what's the worst that could happen to them? More people will play their game? Hahah... yeah, that's rough right there! Wouldn't want a healthy and constantly available influx of players or anything... no way!
  • jijin, on 10/12/2007, -9/+3hxxp://www.dragotaur.com.nyud.net:8080/2006/03/08/galactic-civilzations-2-has-no-copy-protection/

    coral got it in time to grab at least the text
  • TheWriteGuy, on 10/12/2007, -37/+2Somehow this makes me less interested in playing it. :)
  • LatvianHedgehog, on 10/12/2007, -30/+7We will pirate games anyway, with or without protection. Strange move anyway.
  • craigm01, on 10/12/2007, -5/+18Check out the Poweruser.tv podcast over at neowin.net . The owner of the stardock company "Brad Wardell" (sp?) is on that podcast. They have talked about this before on the podcast, it's not that he wants the game pirateted. It's more to the point he does not want his paying customers screwed by wacky DRM problems. (think starforce)

    • pinsomniac, on 10/12/2007, -5/+16Exactly. I had to look at the link twice over to make sure that I wasn't missing anything.

      This is more so a story of what seems to be a relatively unknown product being very successful upon launch due to word-of-mouth. The only mention of piracy in the article itself is in the context of DRM, and they believe that their refusal to use copy protection (which I applaud) may lead to a reduction on piracy.

      Sorry, but the headline is misleading. Stardock does not want, condone, or otherwise encourage the act of piracy.
  • camintmier, on 10/12/2007, -24/+5So, has anyone found/made a torrent of it yet?
    • ilyag, on 10/12/2007, -24/+8It isn't exactly very hard to find torrents, you know. I found about a dozen after looking for 10 seconds.
  • Moocat, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8I bought this game the day it came out, it's very good, what MOO 3 should have been and more. Graphics are updated, gameplay is as easy or as hard as you want and the computer doesn't cheat! Anyway, it's a good viral marketting move if they want to get the word out about their game since they are a relatively lowkey company. That way, their next game might hit it big.
    • ilyag, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5Their NEXT game might hit it big? Did you even read the article? THIS game is currently the #1 best selling game (out of both PC and consoles) in America right now. The whole point of the article was that they're saying that the game is so massively successful despite the fact that they have no copy protection schemes.
    • Moocat, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1Yes, I read galciv2.com quite often thanks. The game was a sleeper hit though, it was "good" before, but then PA hyped it up, along with a few other sites and THEN it went through the roof. Most people who weren't following it beforehand didn't even know what Stardock was, much less that they were a part of a driving force behind the next MOO.

      I blame the downfall of civilization and good "future oriented" turn based strategies on MOO 3 :) Maybe now we'll get something other than the 500th World War 2 game :P
  • xdviper, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3 i need a mirror, already has been dughg
  • ehmjay, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2I remember a while back when I was in grade 8 I bought Stardock's Object Desktop for 80 bucks u.s. (I live in Canada)...if only they had the same rules for that little group of software.

    needless to say, it was 80 bucks well spent.
  • sid0, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2Galactic Civilizations 2 is a great game, worth playing even if there was copy protection.
  • Portwineboy, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15I own this game and think Stardock is an excellent publisher. They make a number of great products for UI customization on Windows. Check them out, support them. Please don't pirate this game. The headline of this digg is absolutely incorrect. Stardock does not want you to pirate this game, they want you to buy it. They just don't want to piss you off with DRM.
  • JhAgA, on 10/12/2007, -10/+4That's not exactly how it sounds... To be able to uprade the game, you must login to the site using a serial code found in the CD. An as of the last patch, you need the serial code to apply it as well. If they aren't so worried about piracy, why they don't let people download the patches freely?
    • Saoshyant, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6Read other people's comments before posting yours. The title is mis-leading.
  • oringo, on 10/12/2007, -6/+22Here's what I think they are really doing:
    Step 1. Make a decent multiplay strategy game
    Step 2. Release the single-player verision with the promise of no DRM, but requires a real serial to update
    Step 3. Wait for the game to become popular and gamers get hooked
    Step 4. Release the multiplayer update and profit. Now all the pirater during step 3 will be glad to pay $40 a pop to get the upgrade.
    • JeffD, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2Well it they do that Ill definatly upgrade my pirated copy to a legit one.
  • Hellomoto, on 10/12/2007, -10/+4i agree with you oringo
  • KevinJ, on 10/12/2007, -19/+5Most software CEOs don't care if their software gets pirated. Its justs that the programmers like to bitch. Company's do not loose that much to piracy. And if they do, then that means their software is obviously usefull.

    If I was Adobe I would wait 2 more versions then implement a strict anti-piracy policy
    W/ each version of PS people pirate it and more people realize its usefulness
    Now heres how to tap that situation
    Make it unpiratable and what do u got? TONS OF PEOPLE WILLING TO BUY YOUR SOFTWARE

    This is going to happen!
    • fullcollapse, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4you cant just make software "unpiratable" its nearlly impossible.
    • NOFXY, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3I disagree. I wouldn't use Photoshop if i had to pay for it. I would simply learn to use the gimp. Now, if i used it for commercial purposes, i would gladly pony up the cash, i would have no problem with that.
  • GoodShipBebop, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2Worked for me - I got this game from a friend at work and wasn't that sure I'd like it - I've played it for a week and would be ashamed with myself if I didn't give a good company a little hard earned cash.
  • Bobski, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2To: xxsiriusxburnxx

    I'd suggest that those were your two brain cells along with your 2 cents
  • jboi, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1Its a truly great & fun game.
    Nothing really new, but everything just fits together very well.
  • loker269, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4this game was posted on digg when it was released but never got dugg to the front page....also they do not want you to pirate it they just took into account everything and decided leaving it unprotected would be better than DRMing it up!
  • TheFoundry, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4I agree with what most people are saying here. As a programmer myself I wouldn't really care if people pirate my stuff (although ALL of my stuff is open source =P) because more people are using it. I know the don't really want you to pirate it, but still more people are playing and there is a possibility that they could offer a $20 multiplayer addon via paypal or something similar.
    • MikeCampo, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3I guess I wouldn't mind, as long as I get my paycheck. So unless the pirating doesn't severely affect profits, it isn't a big deal.
  • kankerfist, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3I bought this game the day it came out. Go to their forums and read the posts of their customers and you will be astonished how pleased they are with this company. The devs, including Brad, post all the time and answer tons of questions. It's crazy to see a company that is 100% dedicated to pleasing their customers. I posted a bug once, and a dev answered my post and it was fixed the next patch.
  • burnt1ce85, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1The gaming and software industry needs a license that is between a PAID full software and FREE demo/trial software to enhance user experience and lead them on to buy their product. Warez is one of them, it's free and at the sametime it gives the user the full experience of a software/game. The only problem with it is that it's very hard to regulate piracy. Therefore, it's not a full solution to what the industries need.

    Hopefully, some computer/electrical engineer can develop a device to control piracy.
  • Spencerocks, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1At least they didn't print the serial on the inside of the box like Valve did, I soon found out that every shelf box had a retail serial and because of Steam it was possible to download straight from their servers.

    Cha ching.. unlucky high street retailers, these days kids want the serial more than the CD.
  • DannyX0, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Yeah, that's an odd thing to say comming from Stardock.
  • Vision77, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3+Digg because I buy Stardock products. Good company, good customer service, and its community lives for creativity and innovation.
  • Lumiras, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Oh yes, GalCiv 2 is such a good game. I bought it about a week and a half ago, and I can't stop playing it. I also have it installed on two machines and I have no need to carry around the discs for the game. These guys are awesome. Also, if you happen to lose the game or your disks get damaged, you can download the entire game all over again (with a serial number)
  • Parsolamew, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Nobody carries it where I am, so I bought it off their website. They've got incredibly robust servers, the gig and a bit download, on opening week, only took me around an hour. Just like every other commenter who's bought it, I can't stop playing. Ye gods is this thing fun.
  • crobcary, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3That game looks really cool, it's a shame there's no Mac version out there to pirate. :-)
  • Pile, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11As a Shareware author who made a lot of money writing my own software in the 90s, my success was due in large part to piracy. I knew I had a lot of customers who were using the software against my policy (it was a 30-day trial version but it wasn't crippled in any way). In fact, I ended up getting "Editor's Choice" in PC Magazine for my software. It would suck to have non-paid users call up for support, but I have to admit if it weren't for lots of people using the software, I wouldn't have made as much money as I did.

    This is even more true nowadays than it used to be in the BBS years. The same goes for musicians. It used to be if you had a good product, people would hear about it and seek you out, but now the distribution chains are controlled by mega-corporations who have deals with larger software companies to not carry competitive products. Piracy in many ways, is a viable distribution and marketing method for smaller companies. Just like giving away your music online is a practical approach towards marketing for new bands who have a snowball's chance in hell of getting airplay on the corporate-controlled radio stations.

    Most of you reading this probably already know that the "#1" piece of software in most categories is not actually the best product any longer. This is why.
  • fac3less, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4There!
    Bought and downloading.

    One of my latest impulse buys.. ;)
  • evirus, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2a real world example of piracy convencing someone to buy a game is..... me, i first had a pirated version of half-life 1, but after playing it, i bought it to play the online multiplayer modes(cd key delima) and this was years before that steam(y) crap
  • simd, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2If only the RIAA understood that there's no better marketing than viral and referral marketing - a little piracy ultimately leads to more sales, not less.
  • seeprompt, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2i wish more companys would release free games ::sigh::
  • Mooinakan, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3Makes sense:

    Hacker pirates game, installs.
    Plays game, has a bunch of fun, shows game off to friends
    Friends don't like the hassle of piracy/don't understand warez, go buy game at store
    Stardock makes another sale they otherwise wouldn't have made, hacker is happy, since he never would have played the game if it wasn't warez-able

    Seems pretty brilliant to me.. It'll be interesting to see how their sales figures turn out.

    Edit: Looks like they can't be doing that bad: http://forums.galciv2.com/?ForumID=161&AID=106477
  • noseeme, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1Stardock sure as hell doesn't let you do the same on their Windows XP GUI modification software...
  • billgateslacky, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2I'm not a big fan of this type of game but I will be buying a copy to support Stardock. Finally a company that is 'getting it'.
  • jhuebel, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5I really want to digg this, to promote GC2. But the title is wrong.
  • mikedpirone, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3I almost always download an album/game/or application before i buy it to see if its worth my money. If I don't like it, it promptly gets deleted. If I do however then I go out and purchase it. Thats just like what alot of people do with console games, they rent them and if they like it they go out and buy a copy. Personally I don't see anything wrong with it using that reasoning but then again there are probably more people who never buy the product and just used the pirated one than people who go out and buy it.
  • noelsusman, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3Finally somebody understands piracy. Yeah, I pirated photoshop, but did Adobe lose money one me? Not a chance. There is no way that I would spend that kind of money on photoshop unless I was a graphic artist. I would just use Gimp. Same with games. If I ever pirate a game, then it's most likely because I was never going to buy that game anyway. Companies don't lose money every single time somebody pirates software or games. The only industry that might lose money most of the time when people pirate their stuff is the music industry. If there was no music piracy in the world, I'm sure that music sales would double or triple. They're finally starting to catch on with iTunes, but $1 a song is a lot more expensive than you think. It costs about $3000 to fill up your iPod from iTunes. At least it's a move in the right direction though.
  • randal2k, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2why not call it freeware and stop being so lame? stardock's attempt at a media hype LOL
    • Ravenlock, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1...Completely stupid. It's a full-price game and worth every penny, and they'll get that full price from a lot of people. The serial number you need to patch it will help prevent long-term piracy, and will probably help ensure that some people who pirate it then buy it.

      The story here is that it DOESN'T contain user-hating, destructive DRM software, and that makes Stardock awesome.
    • Lehk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0freeware? that $45 i just plopped down sure didn't feel like freeware.

      there are few games i have bought that were worth their full price.

      UT2Kx, Galactic Civilization 2, and HOMM2 pretty much summs it up for PC games.

  • KevinJ, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1Here is what I suggest Adobe do if they dont want pirates. Make the program connect to a webserver everytime you run it. And if 2 people are using the same key at the same time. IT WONT WORK
    • fac3less, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1kevinj,

      photoshop already calls out to the adobe dns servers and more upon startup. ;)
      There's a lot more chance for nasty there than you think.

      Do so from a company network: owned.
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