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Christian Video Game Lets You Kill Infidels

talk2action.org — Based on the best-selling Left Behind novels, you play a foot soldier in a paramilitary group whose purpose is to convert or kill Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, gays, and anyone who advocates the separation of church and state - especially moderate Christians. Shows Christian Fundamentalists to be no better than their Islamic counterparts.

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  • Hellsadvocate, on 10/12/2007, -30/+15...And ofcourse, this sort of thing will never be noticed by the media. "Hello, Crusades anyone?" "Yes, Can I have a cup of tea with that?" Have I even heard about this games dark premise? No IGN promises Eternal Forces looks good, Gamespot and all concur. Hello, propaganda.
    • LawLSUVA, on 10/12/2007, -27/+28I find this story pretty hard to believe considering it is opposite of the message of Christianity. The author makes some very misleading analogies, and takes alot of liberties in his report.

      The article was more about Rick Warren connection to the game than the game.
    • Mr.Ortiz, on 10/12/2007, -13/+21to LawLSUVA: The political agenda of the people making the game is relevant in the context of an overtly political game. The author may be biased, but he provides plenty of links to back up his words. You may find it hard to believe, but it's true.
    • shadcrkd, on 10/12/2007, -5/+17"The game rewards children for how effectively they role play the killing of those who resist becoming a born again Christian."

      Jack Thompson is going to have a field day.
    • theone3, on 10/12/2007, -8/+31"I find this story pretty hard to believe considering it is opposite of the message of Christianity. The author makes some very misleading analogies, and takes alot of liberties in his report."

      Hey, Islamic terrorism goes against the message of Islam, too. It's not a new concept. What makes it so hard to believe?
    • Samus, on 10/12/2007, -10/+15'After turning the other cheek, blow the *****'s head off with a double-barrel'.
    • rbanffy, on 10/12/2007, -13/+24Fundamentalism have always been about power. Religion is a convenient excuse and a propaganda tool.
    • LawLSUVA, on 10/12/2007, -23/+48Is Islamic terrorism is completely against the message of Islam? Here are some quotes:

      1. "Surely the worst of beasts in God's sight are the unbelievers." (The Spoils: VIII: 55)

      2. " Certainly, God is an enemy to the unbelievers . " (The Cow: II: 90)

      3. "Oh ye who believe! fight those of the unbelievers and let them find in you harshness." (Repentance: IX: 123)

      4. "Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they surrender and pay tribute." ( Repentance IX: 29 )

      5. "Then, when the sacred months are drawn away, slay the idolaters [infidels - i.e.:non-Muslims] wherever you find them, and take them, and confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush" (Repentance, IX: 5)

      Jesus never talked about killing non-Christians, but rather talked about loving your enemies.
    • Samus, on 10/12/2007, -8/+22It'd be funny if it gets a MP mod. We could let the Muslims, Jews and Christians fight it out online and whoever wins gets Palestine.
    • LawLSUVA, on 10/12/2007, -12/+8When I read where it said that Christians say "Praise the Lord" when they kill unbelievers, I knew that the author has to be stretching the truth.

      There is NO way that a "Christian" game will have that in it.

      Oh, and all recent Splinter Cell's are rated M, not Teen as the author suggests.
    • theone3, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15@Law.

      If you actually look up REAL translations of those quotes, you will find them surrounded with disclaimers, including the belief that Christian and Jewish people and nations are close allies, not enemies.

      I also suggest that you don't look to the internet for unbiased translations ;).

      1. The Spoils: VIII 53 - 57
      "God does not change the blessings he has bestowed upon men until they change what is in their hearts. God hears and knows all. Like the Pharaohs people and those before him, they disbelieved in the Lord's revelations. Therefore we will destrol them for their sins even as We drowned the Pharaoh's people. They were wicked men all. The basest creatures in the sight of God are the thaithelss who will not believe; tose who time after time violate their treaties with you and have no awareness of God." '

      - Fundamental Message: God will punish those who do not believe, and do not follow their treaties, for their sins.

      2. The Cow II:81-91
      "And now that a book confirming their own has come to them from God, they deny it, although they know it to be the truth and have long prayed for help against the unbelievers. God's curse be upon the infidels (those who aggresively disbelieve). Evil is that for which they have bartered away their souls. To deny God's own revelations."

      - Fundamental Message: God will punish those who do not believe, and do not follow their treaties, for their sins.

      3 & 4 - Book of Repentance.
      To set the scene: The Muslim army has just formed, and is 12,000 strong. The Meccan army is 4,000 strong. The Meccans are defending Mecca, built by Abraham as the first place of worship, and they have filled it with Idols. The Muslims are going to try to reclaim it for God.

      God sends the message (IX:29) "Fight against such of those of whom the scriptures were given as believe neither in God nor the Last Day, who do not forbid what God and his apostles (Mohammed, Jesus, Moses, Abraham) have forbidden, and do not embrace the true faith, until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued."

      And later, "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you, and deal firmly with them. Know that god is with the riteous"

      - Fundamental Message: A war needs to happen, but when you win, don't kill them all, just tax them and make them second class citizens


      5. Repentance, IX: 1-6
      Set the scene: They are declaring an ulitmatum to their enemies. This is a new concept, usually, in these parts, the enemy is slaughtered without forgiveness. Giving the enemy terms was unheard of.

      "A declaration of immunity from god and his apostle to the idolateors with whom you have made agreements. For four months you shall go untouched in this land. In that time, you will not escape God's Judgement. Proclaim to the people: God and his apostle are under no obligation to the idolators. If you repent (convert), it shall be well with you. If you do not, you will not escape judgement. Proclaim Woeful punishment to the unbelievers, except those who have honoured their treaties (are not enemies) to you. With these, keep your treaties. God loves the righteous. When the sacred months are over, slay the enemies wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and ambush them. If they repent, free them. God is forgiving and merciful."

      - Fundamentally, this was a new way of fighting a war. Let the enemies flee, let them convert, or kill those who stay, and TELL them? It was unheard of!

      What people don't seem to get about the Koran is that it is a historical document outlining instructions given to Mohammed by God, and that to actually extract faith out of it requires interpretation. That interpretation simply can't be delivered through translation. It's impossible, because at the end of a day, any instruction that is used as a basis for faith is a double edged sword. So people who translate spread rumors that there is hatred in the religion will do so. It's also important to remember that extracts from the Koran are some of the most violent messages, and aren't representative of the entire book.
    • madmack, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12@LawLSUVA:
      I'm a muslim, and these versus that you extracted are completely out of context.
      Christians did use the same versus from the bible when they launched their crusade missions in the 11th century. Just like Jesus was forgiveful and merciful, we have plenty of versus in the Qur'an showing how Mohammad, when asked what to do with the captives of the war, these people that betrayed him and humiliated him, asked them to be set free, and to forgive them.
      Unfortunately, in this world we live in. you can use religion as a peaceful and loving religion, or very violent for killing and serving your own purposes. both Islam and Christianty have versus of violence, peace and forgiveness. they afterall came from the same place, and believe in the same god, and prophets. It comes down to how you use these versus, when, and for what purposes.
    • vigil, on 10/12/2007, -6/+14@Law

      While we're on the topic: (and going with "theone" on this one)

      "Christian terrorism is against the laws of Christianity?"

      1. "But as for these enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over
      them-bring them here and slaughter them in my presence." [spoken by Jesus
      as a parable] (Luke 19:27 NRS)

      2. They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

      3. If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

      4. Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

      All quotes can be taken out of context, or incorrectly translated. Lets not be naive enough to assume one religion is innocent and the others guilty.
    • LawLSUVA, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3@ theone3

      I completely disagree with your interpretations. Your interpretations is not the same as others within the nation of Islam. You are very, very loosely interpreting verses.

      1. When it says that "We will destroy" you can hardly say that God would do the judgment there.

      2. The verse says "God's curse be upon the infidels"

      3. & 4. Are we reading the same line? "until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." - what does utterly subdued mean?

      "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you, and deal firmly with them. Know that god is with the riteous" - War has to happen? No, it is specifically saying to "Make war"
      That is a charge to fight, not that "War will happen" Even your interpretation is nothing nice. Tax them and make them second class citizens? I think not.

      5. Let the enemies flee?? What?? It says: "slay the enemies wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and ambush them. If they repent, free them." Wow, do we really need you to interpret that for us.

      What does repent mean. I think that we can both agree that repent means to convert.

      Ultimately,
      If someone in Saudi Arabia urinated on the Bible, do you think that Christians in the United States would have protests and kill Muslims... no, they would pray for them.

      While your interpretations sound nice, they are probably the 1% minority view of most Muslims. I wish that I could say that the nation of Islam is peaceful enough for me to walk the streets of Saudi Arabia without worry, but it's not. At least, not in the way that most Muslims interpret it.
    • LawLSUVA, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2@ madmack

      I appreciate your comment, and you are right, interpretations can be a terrible things when it comes to interpreting the Scriptures. theone3's interpretations are much nicer than most people within the Nation of Islam.

      Does the Qur'an contain verses that talk of God loving others? Yes, but I think that its only for those that follow the teachings of Mohammed.

      Do I wish that Muslims had nicer interpretations? Yes, but you'll have to convince the other 75% of the Nation of Islam to believe the way that you do.

    • theone3, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@law

      The very fact that you are confusing Islam with 'the nation of islam' - a group that purports to be Islamic, but is widely considered as entirely seperate, demonstrates your ignorance. And thus, your unfair dismissal of the religion of 1.5 billion people as extreme and militant is flawed at a base level. My "Interpretations" are direct quotations from one of the world's most acclaimed Koran translations - A translation by N. J. Dawood. The ONLY place I seem to be able to find your translations are desperate fundamentalist Christian or Aetheist websites bent on damaging the reputation of a religion fundamentally based on concepts of peace, love and equality. Your concept of 'most Muslims' is misguided. If 1.5 Billion people truly believed in such violence and hatred, then there would be no United states, and no civilised society to defend.

      The truth is that there are fundamentalist whackjobs in all societies and their supression is always going to be vital to society as a whole. Your views are based on concepts and evidence that have forged in order to create hatred between Muslims and Christians, rather than hard facts. If you were truly interested in the real religion, you would seek out the truth about what 1.5 billion people really do believe.
    • ThinkBox, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Infidels is not what Christians would call their so called "enemies" - technically infidels are those that do not believe in the Muslim faith - so the title makes me think that Christians are killing all non-Muslims
    • Mr.Ortiz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@thinkbox

      Wrong. Technically, "infidel" means "unfaithful one" and can be used to refer to anyone who does not share a particular faith. Dictionary.com defines it as "An unbeliever with respect to a particular religion, especially Christianity or Islam." The fact that the word is of latin origin (unlike jihad or fatwa) should be enough to refute an "islam-only" interpretation.
    • theone3, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Mr.Ortiz is correct. Infidels was also commonly used during the crusades. (i.e, Thinkbox's comments are factually incorrect.) It's not a Muslim invention, it's just a word.

      Also, when the world Infidels is used by Muslims, it usually means anyone who is not a Muslim, a Christian or Jewish. Similarly, Christian usage of Infidel refers to Christians and Jews, as they refuse to believe that there was another prophet.
  • Amigaice, on 10/12/2007, -25/+6Sweet!!!
  • giveaphuk, on 10/12/2007, -7/+38mindless violence in gaming is fine with me... it's when you start combining violence with religion & ethics that things start to get really scary..
    • Veretax, on 10/12/2007, -7/+8And what do you call Dungeons and Dragons an all those other RPGs that are affected by alignment, diety selection, etc? I don't exactly condone the picture painted by this game but in our country they are unfortunately free to express their view by the protections of the first ammendment.
    • Flooq, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9@Veretax: I'd call those fictional.
    • bleggy, on 10/12/2007, -13/+3AKA Religion
  • stonebear, on 10/12/2007, -7/+14The real matter is not the theme of the game, but whether or not it sucks. Seems like anything which came from those people would just about have to.
  • adharris, on 10/12/2007, -10/+41First, let me get it out of the way that I have read all the books in the Left Behind series and definitely classify myself as a Christian. That said, I want to remain as objective as I can with this.

    I'm not sure about the validity of the article. For those of you who didn't RTFA, it pretty much states that this is a game about the period of Tribulation after the second coming of Christ (the story presented in Revelations) where the player takes control of an army of believers with the goal "to convert or kill Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, gays, and anyone who advocates the separation of church and state - especially moderate, mainstream Christians"

    Being a fan of the books, I was shocked as I read this. But then I dug a little deeper. I went to the developer's site (www.leftbehindgames.com) and read a couple of previews of this game. (the developers site has a Video of ABC news covering the game at e3) Pretty much this game is an RTS where the main motive is to convert the opposing army as opposed to killing them (from the ABC clip killing makes you lose points) From everything else i have read other than TFA, it seems like the article went over the top.

    That being said, I want to express my concern as a Christian about this. Despite them making it "Star Wars Violence" (no blood etc.), it still paint a crusade like us vs them picture, which while technically is accurate when viewed against the Christian end of time mythos, does a lot to counteract the message of love, peace, and kinship that is projected in the teachings of Jesus and in many churches today. It will, in my opinion, only go to further the hate between religion in the world today. You can't convert anybody to your beliefs just by yelling at them.
    • wthnow, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12This is Not the way to show people how God/Jesus cares.
    • toomuchgreentea, on 10/12/2007, -7/+10Quote: "Pretty much this game is an RTS where the main motive is to convert the opposing army as opposed to killing them"

      So how do you suppose they do that in the game? Do they stop those walking around and talk to them, or do they knock on doors with a Bible in hand?

      It's simply hypocritical for them to say (and stupid to believe) that this game isn't about "shoot-em up" and "kill-em all". I say this game has gone way too far.
    • Bhima, on 10/12/2007, -11/+12As a Non-Christian let just add my point of view of this series (courtesy of vanity fair)

      "As befits the manifesto of a counterculture, the 'Left Behind' series is a revenge fantasy, in which right-wing Christians win out over the rational, scientific, modern, post-Enlightenment world. The books represent the apotheosis of a culture that is waging war against liberals, gays, Muslims, Arabs, the UN, and 'militant secularists' of all stripes %u2013 whom it accuses of destroying Christian America, murdering millions of unborn children, assaulting the Christian family by promoting promiscuity and homosexuality, and driving Christ out of the public square."

      Christians who do not step up and question the extremist views in their own religion, as "adharris" is doing, are condoning these views.
    • nitsuj, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7@toomuchgreentea

      "So how do you suppose they do that in the game? Do they stop those walking around and talk to them, or do they knock on doors with a Bible in hand?"

      They shoot them in the neck with a dart containing the Christian Converter (tm). A bit like the 'cure' in X-Men III
    • CiXeL, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11im a christian myself. this is an extremely foolish game to create. how long before a game comes out in response to it where you get to kill christians or feed them to lions. you gotta love how so many christians these days seem to forgotten the whole ten commandments thing especially the thou shalt not kill. i didnt see any fine print or exceptions under those commandments. oh yeah and that whole forgiveness thing with jesus? bah we dont need that. christians are acting like anything but christians these days. =/
    • percyhanna, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Amen, adharris. I am also a Christian and do not condone fundamentalists and their contradicting views in any way shape or form.
    • Somnolent, on 10/12/2007, -4/+0I have my doubts about this game actually being any good, but if it actually turns out to be fun i'll definitely be playing it. The notion that the actions of fantasy characters in a video game are somehow going to alter my own morality/worldview is just plain silly, and people decrying this as "going over the line" are the same idiots mucking public discourse up with this asinine belief that somehow material that offends them is "wrong".

      Not to mention the whole apocalyptic setting sounds damn fun.

      Btw, I'm agnostic and have some serious doctrinal issues with christianity. I do like the aesthetic aspects of catholic services alot though.
    • loginssuck, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@adharris

      Well... I am a former Christian. I didn't stop believing, but I do not trust ANY religion that claims to know "the one true god". I find religion to be a tool for power. It is used by the cunning to control the less intelligent. In the end it's always about wealth and power no matter what the religious adherents say on the surface. This video game is simply another power grab by a subset of real christians. That is, real christians are people who use the religion to control others to their benefit. Whether it's money, political power or some other desire, that's all real christians are about. You are not a real christian if you don't understand or believe this.

      To put it another way, it's like AmWay. If you join up, they claim you can make it big if you just sell the stuff. But EVERYONE who has a brain knows this isn't true. If you buy their products and live with them from day to day, you're not going to make money. If you try to rope your friends and family into buying AmWay products, you're not going to make money. The only way you're going to make money is by getting other people to join AmWay under you. Then when they get a little fed up with not being able to sell stuff, you tell them, "I think you're ready to be a regional sales director" and you get them to get others to sign up under them (indirectly underneath you). Yes. A pyramid scam. That's all EVERY religion amounts to eventually. I don't care if you're catholic, protestant, islamic, jewish, what have you. That's all it's really about in the end.

      So I advise anyone with a rational mind to leave your religion but retain your true and honest beliefs. Do what is right to others. This means that EVERYTHING you do must be evaluated for it's imact on others. EVERYTHING. Once you do that, you are truly on the good side of humanity.

      @everyone_else

      WHY is this a buried story? Does some ***** at Digg have a political agenda? If so, ***** you *****.
    • ThinkBox, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"Well... I am a former Christian" - that makes no theological sense - if you know anything about Christianity.

      "Does some ***** at Digg have a political agenda?" - Does anyone have a political agenda? and if they differ from you, are they assholes? nice one buddy
    • adharris, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@ loginssuck

      The problem i see with Christians is that, what appears to be a the majority of Christians is actually a relative few. Let me clarify, the Christians (a la Jack Thompson) that are insanely fundamentalist are not what make up the Christian faith as a rule, but that how it appears due to the fact that crazy idiots like him get more press coverage then the Christians that preach acceptance, tolerance and love.

      I, personally, am weary of anyone who assumes and asserts they know anything is true, to the point where every other belief, even ones that conflict on levels that don't affect anything, is false. For example, i have an uncle who i would classify as rather, if not very, fundamentalist. (ie lord of the rings is banned from his house but Chronicles of Narnia was seen by entire family at an advanced screening in Hollywood) I share a lot of my core beliefs with him, but differ on the fact that he won't even read/experience anything that doesn't reaffirm his existing beliefs. Everything that shares his belief is true, anything that questions it is 100% wrong.

      I think this whole controversy with this game and the books in general should be seen as a parallel to the controversy right now with the da vinci code book/movie. Both books are a fictionalization of something that may or may not have historical accuracy. People who say that the Da vinci code is fiction and should be read as such need to be able to say the same thing about the Left Behind series and, quite possibly, parts of the bible as well. Don't hold things to a double standard based on your own personal beliefs, that's irresponsible. Its fine to have a religion (i think as a trend people who have religion are more likely to do more great things for other people) but don't let your religion make you treat other viewpoints unfairly, cause for all you know someone else believes that other view with the same if not more conviction than you.

      @ThinkBox

      people are allowed to renounce their beliefs. That makes perfect theological sense.

      PS. heres a link with a review of the game, where they kinda go into how its played:

      http://www.gamersinfo.net/index.php?art/id:1095
    • NJank, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"the Christians (a la Jack Thompson) that are insanely fundamentalist are not what make up the Christian faith as a rule, but that how it appears due to the fact that crazy idiots like him get more press coverage then the Christians that preach acceptance, tolerance and love."

      replace Christian with Islam in the above sentence, and you get another perfectly valid statement.
    • jhutson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The game developers describe Left Behind: Eternal Forces as the ultimate battle of absolute good versus absolute evil, where ultimately, all the "neutral" characters must choose the side of either Christ or the AntiChrist. Ultimately, the neutral characters must either convert or be killed, and that is explicitly stated on the game developer's web site, as well as in reviews published by journalists who have played the game. The winning condition for the game is to eliminate all your opponents. The player must maintain a certain level of "spirit points" to continue fighting, but the concern is to be able to continue fighting. The first essay in the three-part series on Talk to Action clearly states that players lose "spirit points" by killing neutral parties, but that these may be quickly regained by taking a timeout for prayer. (To offer a rough analogy concerning the nature of "spirit points," let's imagine a knight-on-a-mission game, in which the knight must kill the ogre to get through the mountain pass and save the princess. While fighting the ogre, the knight's strength is sapped. But after he kills the ogre, he drinks an elixer to restore "strength points." Then the knight continues his mission, killing as necessary to get to and rescue Her Excellency.)

      In the thread above, LawLSUVA wrote: "When I read where it said that Christians say "Praise the Lord" when they kill unbelievers, I knew that the author has to be stretching the truth. There is NO way that a "Christian" game will have that in it. Oh, and all recent Splinter Cell's are rated M, not Teen as the author suggests."

      LawLSUVA does not know what he is talking about, and did not carefully read the three essays in the Talk to Action series. The Los Angeles Times reported that characters shout "Praise the Lord!" as they blow infidels away, and the link to the article is given by Talk to Action. And the fact is that Amazon.com still offers a version of Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory rated T for Teen, as has been noted in an update to the first essay in the series. But LawLSUVA is just tossing out straw man arguments -- purposely misrepresenting statements and sidestepping the main arguments on Talk to Action without actually rebutting them.
  • themacx, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11this is stranger then the American Army Game... scary stuff.
    • solidcube, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4At least it's not free, unlike AA. But then, christianity doesn't give anything away for free.
  • FreyrVanir, on 10/12/2007, -17/+26Why does a GOD needed followers?

    If your the master of the universe, why do you care if people worship you. It would be like the gap between a human and a ant. Do you even notice that there are ants around you. Is it ego? If it's ego does a GOD like that even deserve to be worshiped.

    Thats why I dislike religion in general when I hear ***** like this. Most religions are about control and power with a us or them attitude and a threat that horrible things will happen to you, if you don't step into line. Christianity or Islam different name, same message, us or them.

    We humans are only here for less then hundred years, Instead of building a future of peace and prosperity for our children we build as society of hate, violence, intolerance and death. Why? Power? Wealth? Remember all power corrupts in the end.
    • datagod, on 10/12/2007, -7/+13"Why does a GOD needed followers?"

      Let me as you this: Why do people want their children to love them? Why don't we all just get dogs, they seem to love us unconditionally...

      We (most of us anyway) have a desire to love and be loved. God created man so that we would love Him, and that so He could love us. And He is more above us than we are above ants...the gap is bigger than you suggest. Afterall, we did not and cannot create ants. God created the entire Universe.



    • tyraen, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7"We humans are only here for less then hundred years, Instead of building a future of peace and prosperity for our children we build as society of hate, violence, intolerance and death. Why? Power? Wealth? Remember all power corrupts in the end."

      Who are you pointing at with this statement, I understood it to be all religions...? There are plenty of people (certainly not all of them Christian) who leave developed countries to work in third world countries, giving their lives (I don't mean to the death but certainly that can happen) in an effort to make better lives for their fellow man. Are you doing something to help the people around you, your community even (I'm not pointing fingers; it's more rhetorical than anything).

      You ask why a god (God) requires worship. Look at this from the standpoint of someone with faith. This God they believe in created the universe and everything in it. He gives them food, water, and air to breathe. Worship is a way of giving thanks. If you did all this (and more) for the people you created, wouldn't you like to hear a word of thanks once in a while?

      And who are you to question what God requires. How can you understand him, being only human. Can you understand how the universe was created? Who does?

      "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight."
    • suppazone, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4Religion is the root to all evil on this earth. Conflicts with religion involved can never be solved with common sence and diplomacy. If one side of a conflict has to reference every word they say according to some bogus book, then how are we gonna develop?

      What ever happend to common sence?
    • Bicx, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I as a Christian believe that my "bogus book" the Bible is the highest source of knowledge on the planet, as do most other Christians, and using it as a reference is an obviously correct choice. Sometimes Christians misinterpret or, more commonly, ignore the whole context of the Book, and from this comes events such as the Crusades.

      It may not seem that Christians (or other religions for that matter) want to cooperate with common sense or diplomacy because, at least in my beliefs, right and wrong are absolute. There is no compromise. For instance, the topic of abortion is a common "battleground" so to speak. If abortion is lessened, great, but that still means there are innocent babies dying. None should die. There are some things where a compromise cannot be reached. I don't know what you were thinking of specifically, but there is a higher law that may not be in line with the current definition of common sense. I for one choose to follow the Words of the God of the Universe rather than the little humans and their narrow minds (and that includes us all).
    • cawpin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0@suppazone - The same thing that happened to good spelling. It died a slow, painful death.
    • pussfeller, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3God doesn't NEED anything. One the other hand, there are many things He wants.

      Here is an analogy: You want this girl, she is running around with some loser who mistreats her and plays on all her weaknesses. You want her anyway, and in your heart, and in a rational calculation of the facts, you know you are better for her than the meth taking biker she is hooked up with.

      God, being God, and very smart, knows He is better for us than what we are choosing, which is basically to do many self destructive and stupid things which are also evil. He wants us to be like Him, cause he is pretty cool, and He knows it, and plus, He knows He is right.

      And He is.
    • suppazone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@cawpin

      English is not my native tounge - I'm not sure what yours is or what your nationality is, I can only guess....
    • suppazone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@Bicx

      Stop waisiting your time. We are all going to hell anyway. If you are not a Christian you are going to Hell, if you are not a Muslim you are going to hell, if you are not...

      You can't devote yourself to all religions - hence you loose.
  • antron, on 10/12/2007, -7/+8Sounds like the Simpsons episode with the "Convert The Heathen" game
    • bunnyman1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Bart: I got one!

      Todd: No, you only winged him and made him a Unitarian Universalist.
  • JimGardner1973, on 10/12/2007, -11/+14"How many people have died from the Bible as opposed to the Karma Sutra?" - Frank Zappa.
  • trollenlord, on 10/12/2007, -12/+2Ahh it's not released yet. Damn. Got to wait until christmas before I can buy that game.
  • misfit410, on 10/12/2007, -31/+5 LOL, another leftist brings up the Crusades to state Christians are as bad as terrorists. You sir are a flaming moron
    if you think a game of such a concept is actually MADE BY CHRISTIANS. You have no idea how many things in
    your life were brought to you by a church. Most of the schools, librarys, hospitals and homeless shelters were most
    likely all built by the villianous christians, and most likely blown up by Radical muslims.
    • timmarhy, on 10/12/2007, -8/+17***** *****. the schools, librarys and hospitals in my area are built by the state. the only ones that aren't are private centers which cost a fortune to attend/be admitted to and are far out of the reach of most people.

      "if you think a game of such a concept is actually MADE BY CHRISTIANS"
      rtfa, it's produced by a christian evangelist.

      i owe your pathetic religion nothing, and how dare you suggest anyone does.
    • bolero421, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17You, my good sir, are an idiot. The United State's first public libraries, schools, and hospitals were all conceived of by Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, whom I'd hardly call christians. Today, the vast majority of those institutions are under the control of the states.
    • CedanticPunt, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15@misfit: Your comment was made pretty much worthless by use of ad hominem attacks, poor analogies and other logical fallacies.

      The majority of muslims are law-abiding, peaceful people. Not all mad mullahs, as the sensationalist press would have us believe. Muslim scholars made big advancements to science in the past, and there are a lot of muslim organisations out there doing work for the poor and their community. Of course, this doesn't fit the stereotype so isn't considered news. IIRC there is a duty in Islam for followers to give 10% of their yearly earnings to charity.

      Similarly, most Christians are peaceful law-abiding people. But when a white Christian plants nail bombs round London, deliberately aimed at killing blacks (Brixton), gays (Soho), and asians (Brick Lane), his religion isn't an issue and doesn't get blamed. When Christians make death threats against supermarket owners and managers due to DVDs being sold that they consider blasphemous, it doesn't make the news in the same way it does when Muslims make death threats over cartoons of the prophet. Strange that...

      Remember, we are at war with Islam, we have always been at war with Islam.
    • MyNameIsFred, on 10/12/2007, -7/+7Those of you saying Christians had nothing to do with public education in this country need to read a little history. Take, for example, Boston Latin School, the oldest public school in the U.S., it was started by Reverend John Cotton. Note the "Reverend" part of his title. (And I say this as an atheist.)
    • timmarhy, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3big deal. it's a public school funded by the government. big deal if it had a reverend in it, he was probably the only one in the area that could read an write well enough and had the time.
    • MyNameIsFred, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@timmarhy

      So to use your "highly enlightened" words, a man who is the only person in the area who can read or write starts the first public school in the U.S. and you owe he no debt of gratitude. The fact that the first colleges in this country were started by Christians, and those colleges grew into world-class institutions, and you owe nothing to them. "For example, Havard University named after John Harvard of Charlestown, MA. A young minister who, upon his death in 1638, left his library and half his estate to the new institution." Stop being a bigot, and read a little history.
    • omnithought, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Pablo Escobar also built schools, churches, etc. Yet he was still a ruthless murderer.
  • antoniojvr, on 10/12/2007, -7/+6Hmmm as opposed to killing cops and old ladies in video games? Yea, I remember digg users complaining about that.
    • Mr.Ortiz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2As the guy who posted this story, I'm surprised it took so long to someone to make that point. The GTA series is meant to be taken as fantasy; pure, mindless fun. This game, while superficially similar, has an overt political agenda and is being created and marketed by people who won't hesitate to tell you that they are actively trying to create a world-dominating Christian theocracy in preparation for the return of the Messiah and the End of Days. This game (and the money they make from it) are just one of the ways they're making it happen. The guys at Rockstar are just looking to entertain and make a (lot of) buck(s). The difference may be lost on those who will play both games just for fun. The rest of us, even if you don't play video games, should be VERY concerned about this game and the people behind it. Read the article, they've already had too much success to just ignore.
    • adharris, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The problem i see is that in grand theft auto what you are doing is still portrayed as a crime and immoral, despite being encouraged to do it. In this game, you are encouraged to kill another culture/religion/ideology of the same religion, and have it portrayed as the "right" thing to do.
  • timmarhy, on 10/12/2007, -10/+11they have made one fatal error with this: they shoot jews.
    if there is any lobby group stronger then the christians in america, it's a the jews. and believe me they jump down the throat of anyone portraying holocost style antisemitism.

    mark my words, it's only a matter of time before one of the powerful jewish lobby groups stamps all over this with bad press.
    • timmarhy, on 10/12/2007, -16/+3only morons mod down without comment. you know who you are.
    • solidcube, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I completely agree with this. The Jews have had enough painful experience recently enough that they're not afraid to get their hands dirty. The ADL and JDL are perfectly willing to mix it up with axehandles in the alley if they have to.

      Watch this game get all kinds of justified bad press.

      The great thing about this crap is it exposes christianity as a hate group.
  • Gills, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Here's to Christians who missed the point and ignore the teachings of Christ
  • nitsuj, on 10/12/2007, -4/+19The end game sequence features you and your Christian followers stood at the gates of heaven. The gates slowly open to reveal.... Vishnu, Brahama and Shiva laughing at you.
    • cshldoc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Well-played sir. You owe me a new keyboard.
  • Flashman, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5Flamewar, commence!
  • Phaid, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5Seriously people. It's a video game. Saying "shows Christian Fundamentalists to be no better than their Islamic counterparts" is equating violence in a video game that a few people produced and nobody's ever heard of, with real world violence perpetrated by an entirely different group. Does this make your "I play violent video games and could snap at any time" T-Shirt any funnier?
  • wazzzup, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5I dunno, the article spends a little too much time trying to legitimize the story by talking about Rick Warren over and over. I find its accuracy suspect as a result.

    As usual, an extreme few nutballs characterize the faith of millions and it isn't even remotely accurate. If you have an even remote understanding of Christianity you would know that a true Christian would find this repugnant.

    And if you're one of those folks that just use articles like these to reinforce you views (without any basis in reality) well, you're pretty much just like the thing you claim to hate.

    That said, this game is lame.
    • jhutson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I'm sorry that you feel the accuracy of the Talk to Action article is "suspect." Would you care to offer a specific example of a key fact or main argument and show evidence for why you believe it is inaccurate? Why don't you read all three essays, consider the detailed evidence and reasoned arguments, and then make up your mind? Part three of the series, "Revelation and Resignation," states: "Talk to Action had argued that what was going on was an old-fashioned business practice, "endorsement by association." By its actions, Purpose Driven Ministries showed its understanding of this argument, and acted accordingly."

      Revelation and Resignation begins:

      By Jonathan Hutson Wed Jun 07, 2006 at 04:18:34 AM EST

      Mark Carver, a top aide to mega-church pastor and best selling author Rick Warren, has resigned as a business advisor to Left Behind Games, the developers of a video game in which Christian militias wage physical and spiritual warfare using the power of prayer and modern military weaponry to convert New Yorkers and kill those who resist. Mr. Carver's abrupt resignation, announced in a statement e-mailed to Talk to Action by Mr. Warren's Purpose Driven Ministries on June 6, 2006, came in response to a two-part series on Talk to Action that criticized the game's antisocial nature (warriors shout "Praise the Lord!" as they blow infidels away, and players can switch to the side of the AntiChrist to kill Christians). The series also revealed the game developer's links to Mr. Warren's empire and their emulation of his network marketing techniques. For example, Mr. Carver, Executive Director of Purpose Driven Church, served on the Advisory Board of Left Behind Games, a corporation formed in October 2001 (weeks after the attack on the World Trade Center) to develop the violent video game and distribute 1 million sample discs through pastoral networks and mega-churches. And until June 6, the Left Behind Games web site featured Mr. Carver's name and detailed his prominent role in Purpose Driven Church.

      Although Talk to Action did not claim that Mr. Warren himself had developed, distributed, or endorsed the game, it held him accountable for the use of the Purpose Driven name brand in the game's web-based marketing material, and asked whether his mega-church and global pastoral network planned to distribute the game. In response, Mr. Carver has requested that his name as well as the Purpose Driven name brand be removed from the Left Behind Games web site (which actions followed promptly), and Purpose Driven Ministries has promised not to distribute or promote the game. In its statement, Mr. Warren's organization criticized Talk to Action's approach, but did not rebut any of the facts or claims presented. FULL STORY: http://www.talk2action.org/story/2006/6/7/41835/37829

      -- Jonathan Hutson

  • timmarhy, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14also, am i the only one the gets the irony of this? for years fundies have campgained against violent video games.. only to produce one of their own.
    so it's ok if it's christians doing the killing "in the name of god"?

    • Phaid, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5That's no more ironic than to see people who have consistently defended ever more violent video games suddenly getting all up in arms when supposed Christians produce one. So it's worse to play a crusading Christian than to play a drug dealer or pimp who shoots cops and prostitutes?
    • solidcube, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Yes, because christians are responsible for far more death, destruction and mental slavery than any other group.
    • kRYPT, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Yes, because cops and prostitutes aren't people.

      *ducks*
    • theone3, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"That's no more ironic than to see people who have consistently defended ever more violent video games suddenly getting all up in arms when supposed Christians produce one."

      It's not so much that Christians produced a video game. Heck, they've produced them before, and that wouldn't get this kind of reaction. It's that Fundamentalist Christians produced a highly discriminatory video game that directly attacks ethnic and religious groups. I'm certain that a game like "Doom 4: Attack those ***** Jews*" would get similar reactions

      *(no specific connotation intended, it would apply to any group)
  • fartingbob, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Seems like a fun game. You can play as the anti-christ as well (which i expect most people will do..) and a kind of not-as-good GTA style game.
    Of course, the fact that its being used to try and convert people to christianity seems bizarre, it is more likely to encourage rascism than being a christian. Still, blame parents who buy this game for there kids.
    • cshldoc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'm waiting for the Hot Coffee mod before buying this one, though...
  • WackyT, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3So, what you're saying is that video games DO equate to real life now. I wish you'd make up your mind.
  • tommasz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Since Catholics are Christians, exactly what are they converted into?
    • tyraen, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1http://www.carm.org/catholic/saved.htm

      The article starts by saying that since Roman Catholics believe there are things we need to do to be saved, they don't always have true faith. The bible says we can't earn our way into heaven, but a lot (not all!) Catholics try this.
    • cshldoc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Zombies...
    • jhutson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The three Talk to Action essays on the video game make clear that, according to the twisted theology of retired Southern Baptist minister Tim LaHaye, who co-wrote the Left Behind novels on which the video game Left Behind: Eternal Forces is based, only the conservative Evangelical Christians who are straight will be raptured into heaven. All others -- including Catholics, Jews, moderate mainstream Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, gays, and secularists -- will be "left behind." In the game and in the novels that inspired it, all those "left behind" must either convert or be killed. Since the game exists within the context of the novels, you may look to those texts to find that conversion means, according to Mr. LaHaye, identifying with his particular brand of conservative Evangelical thought.
  • flinx, on 10/12/2007, -7/+6I call BS.

    This article is more of a smear piece on Rick Warren than anything. However, if you read carefully you see that there really is no connection with Warren and the 'game'.

    Plus, this doesn't fit the character of either of these groups. Pat Robertson, maybe. But not Warren/LaHaye/Jenkins.

    This will prove to be a complete hoax, or massive distortion of the facts to create a false connection.
    • timmarhy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3you are right in the very limited sense that they don't connect warren directly to the production of the game.
      his only link is through mark carver who sits on the board of both. so technically warren has nothing to do with this game.
      the other 3 however, are quoted praising the game.

      you cannot deny all the other facts about warren they point out. he certainly would have known about this game and my money says he'd support it.
    • jhutson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I call BS on flinx's false and unsupported accusation that the Talk to Action essays are inaccurate. As Part 3 of the Talk to Action series states, "Although Talk to Action did not claim that Mr. [Rick] Warren himself had developed, distributed, or endorsed the game, it held him accountable for the use of the Purpose Driven name brand in the game's web-based marketing material, and asked whether his mega-church and global pastoral network planned to distribute the game. In response, Mr. [Mark] Carver [Executive Director of Purpose Driven Church and a top aide to Mr. Warren] has requested that his name as well as the Purpose Driven name brand be removed from the Left Behind Games web site (which actions followed promptly), and Purpose Driven Ministries has promised not to distribute or promote the game. In its statement, Mr. Warren's organization criticized Talk to Action's approach, but did not rebut any of the facts or claims presented." Read Part 3 here: http://www.talk2action.org/story/2006/6/7/41835/37829 -- Jonathan Hutson
  • m0nk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I have always found it funny that Christian fundamentalists have always gone the opposite direction to the actual teachings of Christianity (ie: love thy neighbor, etc). When it starts going to these extremes, it starts to get scary. Who knows what this might do to the kids of those fundamentalist whackos. Of course, the majority of violent games have been found to have little actual affect on children, but when it's coupled with an ideolistic message (convert or kill the infidels), something that is paralleled by their upbringing in a fundamentalist church, those kids may end up on an actual crusade. I'm not saying it will happen, but it could. This game has the potential of causing more harm than any other that I've seen on the market. As a parent, I hope it gets banned, shut down, taken out, etc etc...
    • CiXeL, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3is like they totally forgot a whole half of the bible exists. i guess they see something that pisses them off, read exodus and go haywire.
  • thisisfunah, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1"Muslim sect lets you kill Infidels"

  • brandonking, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4OMG! I need this game! Not because of the blowing away the infidels part, but this:
    "You can be the Christians blowing away the infidels, and if that doesn't hit your hot button, you can be the Antichrist blwoing away all the Christians!"
    OMGOMGOMG I would be SUCH an ***** if there was a PvP mode! ("You jerk! You're supposed to read them Leviticus 2:34... Ahhh You're stabbing my eyes!")
    • Terjon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yeah, the whole play for other side is the part I find interesting. I mean it's funny for a while to walk around as a modern Crusader (spelled jack-ass), but you can only do so many "Hollowed be thine ass" jokes. Now what I found hillarious about this story was the bit about how this game was licensed by Jack Thompson's publishing firm. Hello Mr. Thompson, what's that the people you fight against so hard turn out to be the same people who cut you checked. Ironic I'd say, but it's closer to "he deserves it".
  • blackcanoflysol, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I think the funny thing is a Christian can cause an uproar about the Da Vinci Code but things like this can come out, no matter how it offends anyone else.

    It's a disturbing game, and it goes along with the concept of teaching our children, epecially since the game features a young 13 year old. Do we want children running around anyone who opposes or does not follow Christianity? This whole game is a load of bs... It is real?
  • arneldos, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Game Features:

    Lead the Tribulation Force from the book series , including Rayford, Chloe, Buck and Bruce against Nicolae Carpathia - the AntiChrist.

    Conduct physical & spiritual warfare : using the power of prayer to strengthen your troops in combat and wield modern military weaponry throughout the game world.

    Recover ancient scriptures and witness spectacular Angelic and Demonic activity as a direct consequence of your choices.

    Command your forces through intense battles across a breathtaking, authentic depiction of New York City .

    Control more than 30 units types - from Prayer Warrior and Hellraiser to Spies, Special Forces and Battle Tanks!

    Enjoy a robust single player experience across dozens of New York City maps in Story Mode - fighting in China Town , SoHo , Uptown and more!

    Play multiplayer games as Tribulation Force or the AntiChrist's Global Community Peacekeepers with up to eight players via LAN or over the internet!

    Is it just me or does this really not sound like christianity or a christian game...
  • Bigcolby, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2This series (hence the name) occurs AFTER the rapture, thus all the "chosen" Christians are gone from the Earth and have entered heaven. Thus you're left with hypocrites, zealots with secret agendas, or simply people who never truly believed in the first place as the remaining "Christians." The article is obviously biased and since there is a penalty for killing people instead of converting them I don't see the problem. The thing is in the frame of the novels this book would have to assume that Christianity is the religion that "got it right" so to speak. It focuses on the rapture/tribulation and events following so you can't say "well the Muslim religion has some good points." Whether it has or hasn't is irrelevant since in the context of the books it would be worthless to mention that we could let all the other people of other religions go and believe what they want even after the rapture. The purpose IS to convert/"recruit" others to last past the upcoming trials mentioned in revelations(i.e. antichrist). So regardless of any connections to Warren, the game itself stays true to the context of the book and doesn't encourage you to kill anyone (and I don't hear anybody bringing up something like Rainbow 6 or another war game where you might likely raid a Muslim leader's house)
    • jhutson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The three Talk to Action essays correctly state that the game offers "neutral" people -- all those "left behind" folks who were not raptured away with Tim LaHaye and the other conservative Evangelicals -- only two choices: convert or die. That is made clear on the web site of Left Behind Games:

      "The storyline in the game begins just after the Rapture has occurred – when all adult Christians, all infants, and many children were instantly swept home to Heaven and off the Earth by God. The remaining population – those who were left behind – are then poised to make a decision at some point. They cannot remain neutral. Their choice is to either join the AntiChrist – which is an imposturous one world government seeking peace for all of mankind, or they may join the Tribulation Force."

      The game's developers explicitly state in their web-based marketing materials that your mission is to conduct "physical and spiritual warfare," and that you are provided "modern military weapons" to accomplish your mission. To win, you must eliminate all your opponents -- by converting or killing them. The Talk to Action essays correctly point out that while a player loses "spirit points" (one measure of a player's fighting strength) by killing a neutral, these are quickly regained by taking a brief moment for prayer. None of the facts or positions advanced in the three Talk to Action essays has been rebutted.
  • hammerattack, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1Imagine a game where you kill X because of Y. Oh wait, that's nearly every damned game on the shelf! Seriously, it's hard for me to be upset about this. No digg.
  • natmaster, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I don't know which is worse - this is GTA San Andreas. I'm going to go with this because it uses God's name in vain - a horrible sin.

    Heh, this is a repsonse to the digg post - I haven't read the article thing yet. The poster might be embellishing things a bit, so I could be totally wrong. Oh well.
  • cheesechick, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I like that the article contains a factual error. Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory is rated M, not T.
    • Terjon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Yes, well the issue is really not in the rating. The ESRB is gonna have a field day with this one. They'll need a whole new stupid category for this game. Extreme Religious Violence, Extreme Anal Retentive Bigotry. The box for this one should say "Warning, your children may engage in acts of religious warfare in the name of Christ or the AntiChrist. You're retarded for even considering buying this for them."
  • ftldelay, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6As a born-again Christian, I am utterly appalled by this game. It goes against everything that TRUE Christianity stands for. It's not "thou shalt not kill, unless it's an infidel". No one has ever truly been converted to any religion by threatening them with their life. It doesn't matter what period of time this game is supposed to happen in. God's Word never changes, so if it's wrong today, it will be wrong tomorrow!
    • danielryan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1 sorry meant to reply to a different post
    • nitsuj, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"God's Word never changes,"

      Really? Maybe you can explain why the teachings of Jesus are almost completely at odds with the vengeful, smiting crud that's written in the old testament then.

      One time it's "An eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" and then it's all forgivness and turning the other cheek.

      So much for consistency then.
  • zackr, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1*Takes look at digg title. Bursts out laughing. Takes look at title, rinse, repeat*

    I couldn't be bothered RTFA. Especially with such an ignorant, *Christianity teh bad it makes people kill people* subject line. I find it astounding how often non-Christians talk about Christianity (often calling it 'religion', forgetting that true Christianity is NOT mere religion, there is a distinction) when they haven't a clue what they're on about. Seriously folks, find some other whipping boy. This is getting old...
    • Bhima, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2So what is Christianity if it "is NOT mere religion"?
    • danielryan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2there is only a distinction for you because you adhere to it. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=religion
    • zackr, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I said 'not MERE religion'. Oh, and thanks, I know what it means.
      People often use religion to describe everything that smells of worshipping 'a god'. "I go to the church of the flying spaghetti monster".... "wow you're so religious" See?

      Christianity is more than religion (simply bells and smells and rituals), you actually get something out of it. I think a better name for it is, 'your life'. That transcends mere religion. Of course, me saying this is pointless because you don't agree that being a Christian is the be all and end all. However, what you and I think is pointless. We'll all know the truth soon enough.
    • PercyKittenz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If you had read the article, you'd see that it's a progressive Christian blog.
    • nitsuj, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@zackr

      Christianity is just a mere religion. It's no less life changing or different in any other way than Buddhist, Hindu or many other religious systems. Proponants of other religious beliefs will make exactly the same kind of claims that you make.

      From a neutral standpoint there's nothing that stands out amongst them that isn't subject to culture, geography or whimsy. Christianity included.

      "We'll all know the truth soon enough."

      Nah, don't think so.
  • johnnygizmo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6As a Christian, I find this game rather disturbing, not so much the game itself, but trying to pawn it off as 'Christian'. The authors certainly don't represent me. You do not convert people as a foot soldier. People come to know Christ through the example of those who trust in him and follow his teachings. It is about relationships, not forced conversion at gunpoint.

    If you want to make a game, go ahead, but don't try to tell me it is some kind of end times training or some nonsense like that.

    I think a true 'conversion' game would better fit a "Sims" model rather than an shooter.
  • rimco, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Everyone say hello to Al-Juda
  • danielryan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I love all the people who say this shouldn't matter because it's just another video game. But it's not; this is one being backed by the fundamentalist right. They're nuts and what's worse their PR machine is amazing. All of the people in this thread saying no way LaHaye (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/5939999/reverend_doomsday/) would be involved in this, he is the poster child for Dominion Theology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Theology). This is that idea played out. These people want a new crusade, they're hoping for it. Fundamentalism is dangerous no matter what religion its attached itself to. The idea that you somehow hold a better understanding of God is at the core of the world's conflicts.
    • zackr, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Oh wow you really boiled that down haven't you?

      I love it how people call 'FUNDAMENTALIST' at anything that smells the least bit politically incorrect.
      Also, funnily enough, the core of the world's conflicts is not 'my god rules, your god drools', but selfishness. Yes, that's right, selfishness. No one alive today is purely altruistic, and I challenge you to find me someone who is. Oh wait, there was someone like that, He was called Jesus. dang, you're pipped at the post...

      *ahem*, sorry if I sound snappy and annoyed. It's late at night and I'm tired of humanists.
    • kRYPT, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1What does political correctness have to do with anything here?

      A religious "fundamentalist" is someone who is a right-wing conservative, and believes _literally_ in their chosen translation of their chosen religious text; be it the Bible (New), the Quran, Bible (Old) or what have you.

      These people are very dangerous.. interpreting ancient children's story books as history leads to very scary conclusions.. and that's exactly what you're seeing here.
  • Amigaice, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1SWEEET!!!
  • Carnag3, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Very good adharris! well said, I'm an Aussie, and a christian, I read the books, wasn't the biggest fan, but yer, not a good reader, This is a pretty controversial subject and I dont agree with this game at all, It seems to oppose what we believe, anyways, if people want a place to debate this further, me and another guy run a forums with a christian section on it if u wanna talk bout that stuff, www.youthwar.com, feel free to join, (u dont have to be a christian).

    Ending note, its sad that people go out and do stuff like this and give Christianity all these religious annotations (i think its the right word), what right do we have to force somebody else to believe in Jesus, a God, or that he died for us :S? Yes as a christian, id love to see people get to know my Savior, but i will never force somebody or put it in there face, oh and the God who this game is 'serving' or whatever, is not the God I know!

    Sorry if this offended anyone, not trying to advertise my site, trying to provide a service :D, Nick
  • macinjosh, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2If you go to the games official website, now where does it talk about killing people who refuse to be christians. In fact in the time period the game is simulating Chirsitans will be the ones being killed for not confforming to the world. This article is based on false facts and speculation.
  • goffy59, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Postal 2 anyone?? Has ANYONE played postal, that game is pretty awesome. Maybe this game is better then postal, lets hope so. I ***** hate religion but id love to play a game where you kill ***** for no reason whatsoever. And the reason they state is pretty stupid because what the ***** is the point of converting people? I dont think you recieve bonuses for converting people to christianity. The game seems like it would be pointless and it lightly based on true ideals of the christian religion. Again, im not religious; im agnostic! Well digg for this type of game (killing for no reason, sorta like when you freeplay gta and not do any of the missions, which i do alot.)
  • Al.x, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I just finished Rick Warrens Purpose Driven Life. There is nothing in there about "killing infedels", on the contrary he speaks of approching people with another faith with respect. I don't see the connection.
  • Pirkel, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Wage a war of apocalyptic proportions in LEFT BEHIND: Eternal Forces - a real-time strategy game based upon the best-selling LEFT BEHIND book series created by Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins. Join the ultimate fight of Good against Evil, commanding Tribulation Forces or the Global Community Peacekeepers, and uncover the truth about the worldwide disappearances!

    · Lead the Tribulation Force from the book series , including Rayford, Chloe, Buck and Bruce against Nicolae Carpathia – the AntiChrist.

    · Conduct physical & spiritual warfare : using the power of prayer to strengthen your troops in combat and wield modern military weaponry throughout the game world.

    · Recover ancient scriptures and witness spectacular Angelic and Demonic activity as a direct consequence of your choices.

    · Command your forces through intense battles across a breathtaking, authentic depiction of New York City .

    · Control more than 30 units types - from Prayer Warrior and Hellraiser to Spies, Special Forces and Battle Tanks!

    · Enjoy a robust single player experience across dozens of New York City maps in Story Mode – fighting in China Town , SoHo , Uptown and more!

    · Play multiplayer games as Tribulation Force or the AntiChrist's Global Community Peacekeepers with up to eight players via LAN or over the internet!

  • Karyyk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5This is a game that should never have been made, indeed, it's a game concept that should never even been brought to the table. When it comes down to it, this is no different than the MOD's to first-person shooters that allow for Islamic children to bring down virtual Jihad against their enemies. People should know better, Christians should know better...and most do. This is just an attempt to cash in on the more ignorant ones, a number that would appear to be on the rise. I'm frankly disgusted.
  • mlvassallo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Did anybody read Bigcolby's post? I am not going to defend the Left Behind books or the game, but the author of this article got the premise WAY wrong. He is just as bad as those hatemongers everybody is up in arms about in this post.

    No digg and diggers should learn to read.
  • WeThePeople, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Way to many blind followers of all religions, and for that matter politics, I am amazed at how many people just blindly follow certain groups right off the cliff. People need to stop being lemmings and follow their heart not some labeled group or institution, people need to stop the labeling and name calling.

    Radicals have given a bad name to so many of these groups, leaders use them to gather together followers to push their agenda, Hitler did this all too well. The most angry argumentative groups seem to be Muslims, Christians, Republicans, Democrats, Atheist and Creationist. Why do many of these people feel the need to be angry and hateful?

    Certainly anyone who makes a game like this is not following the teaching of Jesus Christ, who shocked many when he went and had supper and told stories with criminals, thieves and outcasts from society of his time. Jesus was always sticking up for people that were hated or made mistakes, and many loved him and followed him because of the true love and compassion he showed.

    I have many friends that do not follow a particular "religion" but do follow Christ's teaching and don't weigh themselves down with past traditions that are filled with us vs them garbage, or hate talk.

    If you are in a group that can't love everyone, and treat others as you wnat to be treated then run away! Read the word and learn for yourself, too many people are tools for evil and don't even realize it, be a leader, be an individual that wants to love and help out humanity. We are all ONE!
  • Sithlrd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Beware the righteous: http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/2001/dec01/appleman.html

    God save us all from your followers.
  • TubaTechno, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2After reading most of the comments, i'm glad to see that all Digg users aren't flamers against religion. Religion isn't bad, religious radicals are.
    • ConceptJunkie, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Well, religious radicals who promote violence are bad. To me, the _real_ followers of Christ _are_ the radicals. The rest of us fat lazy schlubs don't put our beliefs into practice so thoroughly and whole-heartedly. Me included.



    • Paul, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I differ from your opinion... a high percentage of these comments are not flames but well thought out opinions. Its the kind of open discussion that makes the radicals on both sides cringe. Neither the fascists nor the communists want us to communicate because through communication comes understanding and through understanding comes love. Jesus showed us how to love unconditionally and now we all need to stop fighting and try to do the same.
  • ConceptJunkie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Bart: Got him!
    Rod: No, you just winged him and made him a Unitarian.
  • blackice39, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8This is the most blindy guided character assasination I have ever seen. The author was so uninformed it's not even funny. I read the whole thing and the fact of the matter is that Rick Warren Developed a beautiful business plan. It was one of strategy, intelligence, and is very open to all faiths. THe fact is that Hitler had a good plan to build an army. He started training young. The problem was not the plan..the problem was the fact that he was a psychopath and that he used it for evil. I have actually read the purpose driven life...I can assure you...Mr. Warren's plan is not meant for evil. it speaks nothing of taking over countries or killing infidels...The only thing it talks about taking is taking back a boring and mundane life. The principles that are put forth in this book are actually universal to al religions and THAT is why it ranked on the New York times best sellers list for weeks on end. How about we become informed before we start flaming somone we know nothing about? Is that not our right?

    Truth-Be-Told, all of us have somone in our life that is loosely associated with us that we do not agree with. We, however, can not go and change them. For them to say that Rick is Carver's Boss is obsurd. THE NETWORK DOES NOT WORK LIKE THAT!!!! Churches simply join it. There are literally thousands of churches in this poorly misrepresented network.

    The reason that Mr. Warren's network even exists is to simply equip smaller churches on how to do chruch right. They just send them teaching materials and send out teachers that teach based on the principles of the book "the purpose driven life."

    Don't be so ridiculous...Just so people don't get me wrong, I think this game is heresy and should be condemned by all people of all faiths because it is the poorest representation of Christ I have ever seen. (whether you believe in him as your saviour or not is irrelavent) He was historically proven to be a man of the poeple, he was full of compassion, and he bled and died a death that no dictator would. A military minded crazed dominionist would not die the death that he did.
    If Jesus Christ was so violent and wanted his people to take over like this then he would have done that, but he lived a life of love and compassion and told his followers to do likewise...it's clearly said right in the bible.

    In Mark 12:33 Jesus is asked what the greatest commandment is. he simply replies "To love God with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices."

    Jesus hated religion. He says loving somone is more important than some religious set of rules ( a.k.a."all burnt offerings and sacrifices").

    In closing, Jesus said that the greatest thing you can do is love God and Love people. He never siad what kind of people. he never said "love them if they love you" or "love them only if ytou are the same". No, Jesus called us to love people no matter what race religion or creed. His very life was a testament to this. He came that all people might have freedom. Whether you believe in him as your saviour or not is not the issue...I am simply saying that he said in John 10:10 "The thief (Satan) comes only to steal and kill and destroy; but I have come that you may have life, and have it to the full."

    Do not get me wrong, I am not saying this game is by any means okay. I am a christian and the fact is that this is just pure herasy. Everything about the game makes me SICK! THat's why i am even posting this much. I just want everyone to be informed that the author of this article was just angry. As he should be. He should be angry that this type of game is being made...At the same time though...he should not pull down great men like Mr. Warren that are simply trying to help people live a life outside of the mundane. he is simply responding to the call that "there must be more to life than this". There is. And he is helping people realize this through Godly teaching. That is why countries are calling him in to equip people to help people. His so called "foot-soldiers" are simply people that realize this. That is all. They are just people that know there's more to life.

    Cheers!
    ::Matt
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