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Casual Gamers - Importance to the 'Real' Gamers

spawnpoint.com — Why hard-core gamers have to care about casual-gaming audiences and what the impact is for us hard-core gaming fanatics!

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  • SaPpHiReNiNjA, on 10/11/2007, -2/+22It's so true. Everyone had to start somewheres, hardcore, or casual. My mother is now really into RTS's , but she started off with games like Solitaire and minsweeper lol. Even if they're not competitive, they are nonetheless entertaining, and people will always want to try more.

    Good read.
    • gmprunner, on 10/11/2007, -3/+10I got my start with Math Blaster and Mavis Beacon, and the Doom game that I found on the computer we bought from a friend of a friend.
    • SillyRabbits, on 10/11/2007, -3/+32I think a lot of people fail to realize that a very significant portion of what's called "casual gamers" today are simply ex-hardcore gamers that got a job or started a family. Many probably have a much better idea of what's a good/quality game than 95% of the 13 years olds screaming into their headset playing Halo 2. Just because they don't currently spend 30+ hours a week gaming doesn't mean they haven't already wasted a decade of their earlier life doing it. And, after a lot of wasted time, they are probably a little better and getting the most entertainment for the limited gaming time.
      • KaiUno, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5That's exactly how it is with me. But that doesn't stop me from buying the non-casual games. I just wish for them to be shorter, because I never get to finish them anymore.
      • ZeRux, on 10/11/2007, -5/+1While I agree with you otherwise, you forgot to mention that watching movies or sports, listening to music or reading novels is no less waste of time than playing video games.
      • Cowprince, on 10/11/2007, -3/+2My biggest problem with games today is the overall focus of the 'everybody wins' attitude. Everything is a team game or is too easy. Honestly, make some difficult games out there, give us a challenge. Most games if you just dump enough time into them you can walk through them. Whatever happened difficulty levels from NES like Megaman or Contra. Produce some games that focus more on you vs others rather than team vs team too. More Deathmatch etc...
      • Falkon, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3See, this is why you don't get in relationships. Sure, you don't get to have sex, but look at all the video game time!
    • b0wl0fud0n, on 10/11/2007, -7/+3I'm going to speak from personal experience as someone who plays online first person shooter games competitively. Online gaming in general has a terrible atmosphere. The tolerance for new players is basically nil in online play and this further promotes poorer behavior over time. Online players start off as "noobs" and mistreated and abused to the point where if this kind of abuse were to be in real life, it'd legally be considered harassment. This kind of behavior breeds poorer behavior over time because the sole goal of the "noobs" that remain and stick through the harassment is to get to a point where they can do the same to other noobs/and the people who used to taunt them. Then they move up in ranks to the "1337" level. At this level, players consider themselves to be better than others, and being killed by a "noob" or someone who they consider less of a player than they are is considered humiliating and impossible. These "1337" players will claim that others are hacking because there is "no WAI" that another person could be better. They will also use their experience to take advantage of others in the game by using glitches. They are proud and go to large servers to "own" people/brag and show off to their friends. Things become repetitive and predictable and the amount of brain power used during playing drops to almost nil. They join servers which tend to have new players to have higher scores, without realizing that this means that they aren't actually using any skill. This, unfortunately, is the end of the road for most players. Few people ever get past to the next level - mature gamers. At this point, being "1337" has worn off and is no longer entertaining. These players realize that the time they spent bragging or feeling good about themselves was a waste of time. These players now look for players at their own level for a challenge. Instead of using experience as a guide to determining what is going to happen, these players use their heads to predict what they're opponent is thinking. These players realize that at this point, going head to head with a player will result in a 50% chance of them being killed. The game becomes a chess game where they have complete situational awareness. Patience and timing are key. When they die, instead of crying, they think about why they died, how to avoid it in the future and how to outsmart their opponent now that they have more information about how their opponent plays. They work with their teammates, are silent about complaints and only speak to give out positions and congratulations. The game is peaceful, good spirited and fun. This kind of behavior is what online gaming should be about.
    • catharz, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1It's a reasonable argument, but it concerns me that game companies may totally give up making "hard core" games because there is a lot more money to be made on "casual" games.

      It's sorta like pop music compared to grunge, jazz, blues or classical. Sure, there's a lot of money to be made selling pop music to teens, but if every record company decides to only publish pop music then music lovers will all suffer.
  • cpnichol, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8I still play some casual and simple games, sometimes I just need a change of pace from CS:S or whatever. I'm currently addicted to tower defense plus a few retro classics I play using a Spectrum emulator. I just go for game play and re playability.
    • Shaflugi, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1You know, I think I get more time in playing simple games than I do "real" games. I've got Super Mario Bros on Wii and I've played that way more than, say, Super Paper Mario. I also play Geometry Wars a lot.
  • caddyalan, on 10/11/2007, -3/+13When I first started liking video games - about 19 years ago - the difference between casual and dedicated games was just about defined by the platform. Serious game fans were enjoying adventure games, strategy games and RPGs on computers, and casual game fans were enjoying most other genres on consoles. I knew that complex computer games existed... I just liked Mario for a few months, then Zelda a few months later.

    At some point, this changed. The line blurred. For me, it was the era of 16-bit console RPGs and the occasional strategy game.
    • estvir, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5The /old/ hardcore gamer type you describe do not really seem to exist any more because, well, we can't, for several reasons. Gaming is simply too mainstream, for example:

      - Every 14 year old with a family computer is playing online MP where as a few years ago in the golden days of Quake and the like it wasn't as mainstream.
      - Adventure games are more or less dead, sadly enough. :(
      - RPGs (Elder Scrolls, etc), RTS (C&C, etc) and the old hardcore genres are played by too many normal/standard gamers and have killed the hardcore 'vibe' (For lack of better words).

      And so on.. It's time to try and generalise the hardcore gamer again. :o I miss the old days of gaming when we had actual boxes/ manuals, quality games and decent communities, now it's been overrun by stupid pre-pubescent kids and DVD-box styled rehashes by people like EA. :(
      • bIuebonics, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7what you describe as happening now is the same as it was then... it's just that we were the 14 year olds with the computer...
        • estvir, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6While that is somewhat amusingly true, I wouldn't say it's absolutely correct, the main reason being there was no real PC gaming generation before US because of 2 main reasons, A) the state of games and B) time.

          A) All the hardcore genres were in their infancy, in fact, everything was in it's infancy, videogame related.
          B) I would've started gaming (PC first) like ~14 years ago and the first games I can remember are ones like Nibbles and Gorillaz which we played on MS-DOS. Who was there before me? It's not the same as the /new/ 14 year olds (Just a random age I've chosen for the common moron in CS/BF2/WOW and I would've been like ~6 or so when I started) who have a huge foundation upon which to hurl their insults and lack of taste.*

          * I'm picking on the average moron by my comments apply to the average gamer who is not annoying.
    • bIuebonics, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2it's rather disappointing you exclude hardcore gamers from mario. have you ever seen the video where mario 3 gets beaten in 11 minutes? the timing of the jumps on the floating platform/ship stage is amazing... that's some hardcore gaming. seriously, hardcore gaming is only recently becoming defined by the platform, but it's mostly becoming like such because this younger generation of players have a wider availability of games to play online and are therefore more "vocal" about it. if you recall, the only people who shared their hardcore gaming back "in the day" were those playing muds on local BBSs. while there were tons of hardcore gamers, the only ones really communicating their hardcoreness were the ones who didn't mind spending the day doing nothing but reading text typing n e n w sw look tree... not exactly a wide appeal to a lot of people.
      • Tippis, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6There are really two concepts at play here: "hardcore" games and "difficult" games.

        The latter category is, I would say, still firmly controlled by the old classic genres -- platformers and shoot'em-up-scrollers -- where the difficulty is one of milisecond timing and absolute control over very simplistic... well... controls.
        The former category is more a function of how much time you need to spend to get good at the game, and this comes in the form of eye-mouse-tracking for FPSes or power-levelling or creating optimal build queues or whathaveyou.

        There is a decent overlap between the two, which has caused some confusion, and IMO, much of the annoyance among so-called "hard core gamers" come from the fact that the gaming companies have tried to move away from the second category -- difficult games -- to appease a larger market. Hardcore gamers have the patience (and spare time) to learn to play those games; casual gamers do not. At the same time, this does not mean that casual-friendly games cannot be hardcore -- it's just that it is often up to the gamers themselves to decide on how to make things difficult because the game doesn't necessarily do it for them.
  • wageslaven, on 10/11/2007, -8/+9That's one of the reasons I went with Xbox 360. The new games on XBLA like GeoWars, Eets and Alien Hominid, classics like PacMan (PacMan CE rocks btw), Millipede and Missle Command (yeah!), board games UNO, Catan and Carcassonne. For like $5, you get all kind of quick game options, suitable for quick "casual" gaming.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_Live_Arcade#Xbox_Live_Arcade_games_for_the_Xbox_360
  • dragongumby, on 10/11/2007, -3/+6computer chess rocks. is that hard core or what?
  • deadbaby, on 10/11/2007, -3/+14I'm all for the concept of hardcore gaming but it's rare to find games that are worth sinking that much time into anymore. Once you get over the flashy graphics a lot of games boil down to simple level grinding which gets old after a couple hours.
    • SillyRabbits, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2I seem to have a similar problem. When graphics were not so great, game makers seemed to really concentrate on content. Now I pick up games that look beautiful, but end up being quiet boring, or simply just not much fun to play. They look great, but it's not a very entertaining experience.

      For I while I thought I was just being nostalgic, but I've actually loaded up a few of my older games, just to play them again. I found that I was being sucked back in again and stopped noticing the less than stellar graphics (and that's after experiencing what's now available). So, I think there really is some truth that many current games are lacking the depth and content and even just plain "fun" that they once did. That's too bad.
    • bIuebonics, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3if i recall correctly, i had to do some serious level grinding all the way back at final fantasy 1 for nes...
      • hockey, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1The difference is RPG's (especially the FF series) have evolved past the need for a constant level grind.

        Most other genre's haven't.
    • PedleZelnip, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1What I keep finding is that devs are increasingly making games artificially more difficult to appeal to the vocal minority of hardcore gamers outthere, but in the process alienating and frustrating the less hardcore (I don't like the word "casual"). I have a 360, and I'm really starting to get tired of single achievements which require 20+ hours of gametime, or games which just get frustratingly difficult.
    • Vanor, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0Y'all never played Monster Hunter did ya? I've easily sinked over 300 hours into it on the PS2, and just as much already in the PSP version. I'm sure the new one for the PSP will probably see me sinking in more than both of those combined.
  • Al3x, on 10/11/2007, -5/+27I used to play Halo 2 professionally. (www.mlgpro.com). Now I'm a casual gamer...it's much more relaxing to play for fun and not get upset and stressed over a loss. It's the way games should be played.

    I find most hardcore gamers get angry, etc. over a loss or a kill or a frag...they should just laugh and say "Oh wow I got dumped on." instead of "***** ***** LAG DAMN IT!! **breaks keyboard**"
    • estvir, on 10/11/2007, -2/+6You can still play games 'professionally' and not get stressed/upset.. Actually, the problem you detail isn't unique to videogames, it's just with people who have issues and will act the same way in regards to mostly everything.
      • imikedaman, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2I agree. I used to get incredibly mad and almost violent when I kept losing in any hardcore game - be it online Halo matches or speed runs of hard-ass NES games like Ninja Gaiden.

        ...then a year or two ago I realized I had some pretty serious anger management issues and slowly taught myself to stop getting mad and just appreciate the games for what they are. I still play the same types of games, but I rarely get mad now. (although the Lost Levels gave me a run for my money...)
      • imikedaman, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4I couldn't agree more. I used to get incredibly mad when consistently losing in video games - whether it be multiplayer online like in Halo, or just a hard game in general like Ninja Gaiden for NES.

        ...then I realized I had some serious anger management issues that permeated my entire lifestyle, and went through great lengths to force myself to stop getting mad at everything and just start appreciating the games as a form of entertainment. I still play the same games as before, and I still suck just as much as I always have, but I don't get mad about it anymore.

        (although the Lost Levels in Mario All Stars was really pushing it...)
      • imikedaman, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2Sorry about the completely different repost - the first time I submitted my comment it completely disappeared so I decided to retype it from memory... then both posts showed up at the same time. That's kind of embarrassing.
    • noctu, on 10/11/2007, -7/+2u got it wrong its the casual gamer that cries haxor when he gets pwned.
      • bIuebonics, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3not necessarily true. i only play counter strike casually now and it's nub clan members of various servers i go to that cry haxor when i pwn them... :P casual != inexperienced
      • estvir, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4It's the non-gamer, simple minded consumerist whore who cries 'haxor.'

        I think EA has another generic videogame to sell you. :/
    • HBNDonut, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3It's ok to be competitive in video games. Just remember to still have fun and don't take it _too_ seriously.
    • jp3550, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1"WTF ***** WALLHACKER"
    • Estaris, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1" find most hardcore gamers get angry, etc. over a loss or a kill or a frag...they should just laugh" I have found, not being pretentious in any way here, casual gamers whine a lot. Not a little.. a lot.
      "I play a half hour everyday and I can't get my arena gear! What's up with that?" " I can't get through the 2nd boss of Shadow Labs (read average lvl dungeon) I"m doing Black Morass (read above average dungeon/instance) and I keep dying!"
      *sigh* I just blink a few times and agree.
      What do you say to that? lol
      Instead of watching TV (or while,) play a little and learn how to play your class, get your rep up to get your gear, take a day out of the week to do a couple instances and take an hour (tops) to read on the harder instances. Takes 10 hours out of your week instead of sitcoms.
      Matter of choice. *shrug*
      (I am not talking about parents here, kids are your video game hehe. ) If you only play a half hour a day you should be playing something else that doesn't demand so much time to get good gear to do end game content sucessfully or just quit complaining about it. PLEASE quit complaining.
      My husband sometimes takes gaming too serious and I have to throw things at him, soft things. hehe : ) He's ok after that.
    • RRJackson, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5Heh..."I used to play Halo 2 professionally"...

      Did that line of employment work well for you on mortgage applications?
      • Estaris, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1He might have got paid more then you for it. lol Wouldn't that be a kicker ;)
    • marastara, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0OMG I know what you are talking about! I am a casual gamer and my bf plays, not professionally but with a group of friend who like video games enough to be, semi-pro...and whenever he would scream out profanities and slam his hands down I'd scream back....so now he stops short and apologies...but it is all in good fun! People think that you need to be in a 9-5 but it's all about what you love.
    • marastara, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0OMG I know what you are talking about! I am a casual gamer and my bf plays, not professionally but with a group of friend who like video games enough to be, semi-pro...and whenever he would scream out profanities and slam his hands down I'd scream back....so now he stops short and apologies...but it is all in good fun! People think that you need to be in a 9-5 but it's all about what you love.
  • ProtossX, on 10/11/2007, -34/+4wow just STFU ABOUT casual gamers IM SO ***** sick of that word "caual gamer"

    Here are the systems I purchased "NES" had great games "SNES" continued to deliver for gaming needs "Playstation" took my gaming to the next level, "playstation 2" fantastic machine, amazing games.

    WHAT THE ***** DO CASUAL GAMERS HAVE TO DO WITH GAMING? NOTHING NOT A ***** THING there is no such thing as a casual gamer. A casual gamer is a person who plays the kiddie games on the mainstream system which right now is the still ps2.

    THERE IS No wii casual gamer, there is no nintendo DS gamer, A GAMER WHO BUYS a ***** portable system is not a ***** casual gamer trust me I know a casual gamer is someone who uses a cell phone and plays one fo the games on it once in awhile FOR there portable gaming they dont buy a nintendo DS

    nintendo is out of there ***** minds if they think there getting casual gamers on there side, the real casual gamer is playing ps2 grand theft auto/scarface and playing cell phone games not wii sports with a ***** magic wand dildo nun chuck or a touchscreen ds.

    I can't wait till this nintendo FAD dies the only ppl who bought the wii were zelda/mario/metroid fans PERIOD, them making all these stupid casual games is going to ***** off the only people that actually bought the system I cant wait till nintendo dies and they realize there mistakes

    • xaaronreevesx, on 10/11/2007, -4/+16According to your logic...
      that means that there are 8.18 million Zelda/Mario/Metroid fans...

      I highly doubt Nintendo will "die" with that kind of fan base.

      ***** Idiot.
      • Cyber_Akuma, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4There was logic in that wall of text?
    • ByronT, on 10/11/2007, -4/+9Two words: Anger management.
    • MewTwo, on 10/11/2007, -8/+5Wii sucks.
    • bIuebonics, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8wow, you sound like a 16 year old moron. i'm currently playing guild wars and counter strike, both of which i play casually. after reading your delightful comment, how can i say this? because i've spent, literally, every waking hour, at points, playing video games. now, i'm a casual player. i'd love to get a hand held system to play casually in my spare time. you see, it's called growing up and having more important ***** to do.
    • ninj3, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2You suck.
    • ZeRux, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4You might try to stop gaming and get outside for a while, you'll grow up sooner.
    • nufoto, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Relax Dude it's just a Game!
    • ohmyblazes, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Actually, Nintendo is getting casual and even non-gamers on their side. I know people that want a Wii that don't even play games. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of casual gamers because I worry the Wii will do so well all we'll be left with is Cooking Mama and Mario Party 13. You sir, however, need to calm down. I hope I never run into you while playing Halo.
    • Estaris, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Being a hardcore raider is not a medal and being a casual gamer is not a put down. Get a reality check and some therapy.
    • pete83, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I think if you're someone who identifies himself as "Protoss", you aren't really qualified to talk about casual gaming.
  • PHXXGhost, on 10/11/2007, -3/+6Wow, well Protoss I would say a casual gamer is one that doesnt really care about how well they do, they just play for fun. A hardcore gamer is the ones that dedicate numerous hours to improve and compete against other players.
    • estvir, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7I think you're confusing hardcore with serious, or some other word. MP isn't the only area in which the type of gamer divides and most people here are making silly, short-sighted comments about hardcore gamers and multiplayer.

      You could be a hardcore gamer and not once touch multiplayer.
  • YouRookies, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Casual gamers are needed to make a gaming community survive. If it's only hardcore fans that exists then the community stunts it's growth. (Not enough fans, No Sponsorships) For example look at the Street Fighter / Fighting Game community. Until there is in-game tutorials for advanced gameplay tactics, fighting games will only appeal to the hardcore fans. Make the game easier to learn for the casual gamers and it'll be popular like FPS.
  • satx, on 10/11/2007, -14/+18"Normal Gamers - Importance to the 'Pathetic Geeks with no Lives' Gamers"

    Title fixed.
    • CCB0x45, on 10/11/2007, -7/+8Amen to that. Some of these people scare me.
      • ZeRux, on 10/11/2007, -3/+5I'm far more scared of people who spread sterotypes.
    • wolferz, on 10/11/2007, -5/+11Next time check the "best if used by" date on your stereo types. That one expired a decade ago.
      • MewTwo, on 10/11/2007, -8/+6m hm, keep telling yourself that
        • wolferz, on 10/11/2007, -3/+3heh, just gotta have some way to make up for working at mcdonalds while the geeks you gave wedgies in high school are working out how to spend age 40 and after... ie after they retire from the law firm they work for.

          Your type is really quite pathetic. You convince yourself that your hot ***** while growing up and manage to surround yourself with other people that think they are hot *****. As long as your peers are restricted to a small community such as a school you can manipulate the ignorant and immature around you and use the gained popularity to keep your swollen ego afloat. Then you graduate high school and discover that popularity doesn't get you ***** in the real world and any brawn you have doesn't make your work life easier. The real world requires intellect, (real) social skills, and hard work. All things that geeks tend have and you certainly don't. So you fall back on the only thing you know: trying to convince those around you that any one who is better than you really isn't. Only one problem. Your peers are no longer by and large ignorant or immature. Those category's are reserved for people like yourself.

          Oh and most hard core gamers aren't geeks and since geeks are often more successful socially that their prep counterparts your argument is out of touch with reality. Well, more successful after high school any way. You ARE out of high school right?
    • estvir, on 10/11/2007, -3/+4Your fixed title is as guilty of silly stereotypes/views as you try to fix.
    • sagosen, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4Cut the *****, everybody has some kind of 'lame' interest that may or may not be considered a 'having a life' by somebody else.
      Just because you can't relate to something you call it pathetic? Wake up and smell the diversity you obviously don't understand!
    • satx, on 10/11/2007, -4/+1Holy *****, you morons take ***** way too personally. Playing games for 10-15 hours a week is ok. Any more than that and you really do need a life, though.
      • panzergeist, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1What is your definition of "having a life"? Most people I know have a different opinion on that matter and none are more correct than the others. Some people go crazy over sports. Some prefer the social nuances of clubbing and parties. Others prefer to spend time in books, while others like movies. And some like video games. All of those people "have a life". They don't need to "get a life" because they are all doing what they enjoy and they don't have to be like everyone else (which is impossible to do, by the way.)
    • satx, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1[Redacted]
  • x911oz, on 10/11/2007, -4/+12Do hard-core gamers play the games suspended by their ankles or while being whipped? What's the -core rating system, like number of years wasted staring at a CRT screen?
    • panzergeist, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I don't think there is a formal definition, but it is generally assumed to mean someone who plays games as their primary hobby, of which consumes a large portion of their spare time.

      In contrast, a casual gamer is assumed to be someone who plays games, but other activities during their spare time take precedence.
  • Osmodius, on 10/11/2007, -9/+21Quoting the article: "Remember - It won't be long until that 8 year old is kicking your butt in WOW or CS:Source.. "

    Uhh, since when was world of warcraft considered a game? 8 year olds DO kick butt in WoW, because it's that easy. Buried.
    • cloudyprison, on 10/11/2007, -3/+2Somebody got corpse camped by a rogue.
    • Estaris, on 10/11/2007, -3/+2Oh yes because all other games are MUCH more "mature." * lol
      Give it up. lol
      • Vanor, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Cuz WoW is that easy. It's so mind-numbingly easy it sears the retinas to even look at that damned game. Anybody can play WoW. Try playing Monster Hunter and fight the *easiest* wyvern in the game (Yian Kut-Ku), then try to justify that WoW isn't anything more than a glorified chat room where the only thing in the end that matters is who has the bigger stats for their character.

        I freaking DARE you.
        • Estaris, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1You are saying that ANY video games are not easy?
          Monster hunter? lol Giving a mob more hit points makes it a "harder" game?You are talking about beginner quests/instances (dungeons.)
          Ever do the 10/25/40 man raids where you have to find the solution of how to kill a single mob? Not saying it's extremly hard, once you find the solution but it can take days or weeks to find the solution. A group of your friends trying over and over again, trying to find the best way to play their toons, to compliment each other's playing skills and is the key to beating the mob.
          If you have general/trade chat channels open while you play, that's your fault.
          You can simply turn them off like all the seasoned players do or ignore it.
          I just have guild chat (adults) open and our sister guild.
          All and all .. ALL video games are easy and mind numbing. It's funny that the above is your arguement. lol
  • Macshiba, on 10/11/2007, -5/+3As a gamer, I like it when a company actually makes a game instead of pushing it off for 10+ years like a certain company is doing with a certain Duke Nukem game. I don't care if the graphics are dated now, I just want to play the ***** game.
  • noctu, on 10/11/2007, -5/+4its because of casual gamers games have lost their challenge, range of tactics and creativity, they cry how it takes to long to level and they cant keep up with the hardcore gamers or their favorite term for us is power gamers this is why games that lack any real range in tactics like WOW is so popular.
    • bIuebonics, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5and wow's the only game right? here's a hint: if you like challenge, range of tactics and creativity, then don't play games lacking those aspects. they do exist out there.
    • estvir, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1A perfect [and horrible] example is of the recent comments by the EA CEO (Was it the CEO?) IIRC about how we don't want videogames to be a challenge, etc.
  • BrainCoder, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3I think in these times software houses are giving more space to casual gamers because they are more than hardcores now ( girls, kids and half of adults are at the most casual gamers, with a lot of 12-20 yo boys ), and they buy a lot of games that HCs don't give a ***** ( movie games, dumb party games, dance games ). For example the last Pirates Of the Caribberan game sold a lot, so the Harry Potter one's. There are also games that can be played by both, like Smash Bros series, but I think that casuals get owned at them.
    When I buy a game I don't care if the graphics is poor or I if can't kill pedastrians. GTA created, among other games ( DDR, Guitar Hero, WOW and Tomb Raider series ) a lot of people useful for the marker. There are a lot of HC games that you don't know that worth to be played ( like Mushi Hime ), and don't care if there aren't no more Street Fighters or no more Metal Slugs, they're past. All that software houses want is money.

    I know this post is TL;DR, sorry.
  • NenDaiKi, on 10/11/2007, -4/+17Maybe casual gamers are taking over because there's no way left to be hardcore without it involving a first person perspective and World War 2.

    Considering how into mindless FPS games I was at one point, developers have really fallen all over themselves. I would still be playing UT2k4 to this day if there wasn't always some developer coming out with a new war FPS, quickly eating away at the community of genuinely good games.

    But ya know what? I got tired of playing with bots in UT2k4 and the hopelessness of Counterstrike, a game in which cheating is both the norm and a guarantee to be banned for life. (Oh, and it happens to be the most simplistic FPS in existence).. What constitutes a hardcore game anymore? The only thing the sites pump us up for is the next FPS, and if there is anything else otu there they sure aren't letting me in on the secret.

    Recently I have been gaming a LOT, but none of it within even the last generation. I pulled out my Genesis, SNES and N64 simply to get a taste of good games again. Everything now is so layered with the need to make money it hardly has any shine at all even when it is technically great.

    Give me Mario. I will take a plumber wearing a bee suit in the outer reaches of the Mushroom Kingdom over another FPS that is guaranteed to be deserted within months ANY DAY. This obsession with fap fap graphics and endless war is ridiculous. As bad as Nintendo making a fitness system might seem at first, the fact still remains the few games they have released so far decimate the majority of the market.
    • chris9902, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4Hardcore gaming isn't just about the latest FPS. It's about playing a game with skill. That could be Madden, Forza, Fifa, Unreal or whatever. Most "casual" games don't require any skill. Take the new Mario Kart on the Wii for example. That will have a catch up feature so no matter how good (or bad) you drive the next person is going to be on your ass all the time. That's so lame.

      I personally could spend hours playing Unreal the jump into a game of UNO on XBLA. I'm a gamer so as long as it's good and provides entertainment I'll play it.
      • estvir, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4I think skill is a bad way to judge whether someone is a hardcore gamer, I'd say it's more of:

        - A state of mind
        - Amount of interest
        - Enthusiasm

        But the part about the lack of skill/any challenge is absolutely correct, I just don't agree with skill being the main factor upon which to label someone/your self as a hardcore gamer. :) Is there seriously a catch-up feature? No wonder I've more or less completely lost interest with Nintendo (Though there are some awesome games on the DS nowadays).. and people try to tell me that Nintendo isn't guilty of slowly 'ruining' (For dramatic effect) a higher level of gaming. :o

        I still play my Mega Drive and old PC games when in the mood/have the time and I have a lot more fun playing Monkey Island 1, Total Annihilation or Earth Worm Jim than I do playing STALKER and other newer games. They've become a chore, not an actual fun pastime. D:
      • grumbel, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2That catch up feature isn't anything new, it has been in Mario Kart since forever, maybe they tuned it a bit, but it really isn't anything new. What makes the new Mario Kart annoying isn't this new feature, its that it looks completly the same like the last two Mario Karts. Now ok, we only have seen a small trailer so far, so maybe new stuff will come, but given that the last two Mario Karts already where rather low on innovation I kind of doubt it.

        Mario Kart once up on a time on the SNES was an awesome new game experience, today its just the same game over and over again as I already played last year.
    • BrainCoder, on 10/11/2007, -3/+2I personally hate new Nintendo.
      Their fitness-relate games are getting me tired, like Sony Eye Toy did.
    • bIuebonics, on 10/11/2007, -3/+1if you think cheating is the norm in counter strike you're either not playing in vac servers or you're really bad at the game. people who are bad at the game always call hax.
      • Osjpr, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1and cheats always fool idiots into believing they are skilled, legitimate players
  • mattfugitive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5Help your community, train a noob today!
  • TomskiBOTN, on 10/11/2007, -3/+1Gaming is big business so these companies have to get it right I do feel that some games are rushed and that we are all greedy for better games thats why companies are making so much more from it.
    I'm no hardcore gamer but I do like games I don't think I know of anyone that does not like playing games online or off.
    Some people take gaming far too seriously and I do think that later down the line it will lead to alot of mental issues with the older generation of gamers perhaps they will start to think that they are the characters of their favorite games etc... lol

    Check out MistyXoXoXo on http://www.mygamertagspace.com and tell me that gaming is not growing faster than any other culture on the face of the planet and that it is not a bad thing!
    • sagosen, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0Oh noes.. Not another one of those chicks that gets way too much attention because she has boobs in an environment with mostly guys who WANT boobs.. Noobs that want boobs. Now there's a clan name! :)

      On the note about mental issues, I know a guy who scarred himself in the face to be more like a Final Fantasy-character from FFXII. He's feeling better now.
  • daxsymbiont, on 10/11/2007, -5/+1yeah, we'll usually own the noobs, and they'll cry.

    but it's human general phenomenon, not gaming specific.

    i.e. if a 'pro' gamer is owned, he cries too.

    the problem isn't in 'gaming', it's in not being an ASS, or a pussy.
  • OpCzar, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3I'm still contemplating about getting a 360 because of the player matching capability. The older I get, the more casual and varied my gaming experience is. Online though, I don't seem to get any better when all I do is either get "pwned" by 14 year olds or kill off people who seem to be half-asleep on their keyboard...

    The only thing I'm waiting for is for a hardware fix, really.
  • Scheissen, on 10/11/2007, -3/+1lol so why do the nintendo nerds get angry when I say the wii is just a casual gaming system? It's not a 360 or PS3
    • SolipsismX, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5Maybe because it's not a "casual gaming system."
  • neko6, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Most of what I learned in life, I learned from video games. There's no other way to explain why I'm smarter then most people after doing nothing but playing for the first two decades of my life :P

    Now I play several hours a month on average, but I still consider myself a gamer (although I don't like the current gaming trend - When I do play, its either emulated RPGs I never got to play in my youth, last one is the amazing Chrono Trigger, or silly flash games.)
  • guttertalk, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Scheissen: There are no casual gaming consoles, only casual gamers.

    Casual gaming doesn't even have anything to do with specific games necessarily, but I've noticed gaming blogs and companies use 'casual' to mean different things. 'Casual gamers' are players who aren't going to obsess and invest a huge amount of time into games. (Yes, that means you can have a hardcore gamer that plays hearts.)

    'Casual games' lend themselves to pick and play all through in a short time, which I imagine the sweet spot is around 10-15 minutes. (Some first-person shooters lend themselves to this kind of play, and actually that's how I play many FPS now.)

    Notice that systems specs have nothing to do whatsoever with casual games or casual gamers.
    • Tahiri, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1"There are no casual gaming consoles"

      Wii is.
  • romdjoll, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1So true, I'm still so proud of the friend of mine who went from Sims to refusing to leave his house without his PSP, his wife on the other hand maybe isn't so proud......
  • grumbel, on 10/11/2007, -4/+7The problem I have with all that casual gamer stuff is that it for most part means dumber games. I am sorry, but I can't get exited about playing the same puzzle game over and over again just with a few graphics shuffled around each year, which is however what many casual gamers are playing and many casual game developers are producing. The business is geared to produce a quick buck, not to produce a good game. There are a few games that cross the line, like The Sims, which both attract casual gamers as well as provide a huge amount of depths and variety, but there just aren't very many of these.

    In the end I just can't see much good with all that casual gaming, widening the audience sounds great at first, but its done by producing games that just aren't much good. And my fear is that once publishers realize that there is a ton of money to be made with simple and cheap games, they will stop doing the real ones. This isn't really anything new, it has happened before, the flight sim genre pretty much died out after the FPS and RTS got popular. The audience got bigger, yet nobody is producing flightsim games like in the old days anymore, since there simply are easier ways to make money. The truth is that a bigger audience doesn't mean more games, it means less games, geared to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
    • vudicarus, on 10/11/2007, -3/+1Wow. Your name is apt.

      These games aren't for you. There's so much wrong with what you're saying that I can't believe you just wrote two large paragraphs to come off sounding like a snob.
    • guttertalk, on 10/11/2007, -3/+0Well, the fact that you think RTS and FPS games are easier ways to make games than flightsims shows that you really don't know games. Casual games are only a threat to other types of games if not enough people are playing those games. Also, casual games are not new, so this isn't some sudden threat. What is new is that console platforms like the 360, ps3 and Wii are offering new ways for people to get and play casual games.
      • grumbel, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6### Well, the fact that you think RTS and FPS games are easier ways to make games than flightsims shows that you really don't know games.

        You don't seem to have ever touched a decent flight sim.

        ### Casual games are only a threat to other types of games if not enough people are playing those games.

        Most publishers don't care about the smaller markets, they concentrate on those spots where there is the most money, if that spot happens to be casual gaming, then they will go that way, no matter of many people are still playing hardcore. Just look at the Wii, that whole platform is already way into casual gaming with little to no hope to ever gain a wider selection of games.
  • Fhwqhgads, on 10/11/2007, -3/+2I think Blizzard needs to read this. Everything new they add to WoW is catered to the top 1% of the playerbase.
    • Estaris, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1read * I wish I could play more WoW* They offer everything.. if you did arena/BG's/got rep up.. you could get good gear without doing any end game content. There is plenty to do on the way to 70. Either play more or quit crying. They developers listen to the gaming community, if you ever played another game you would appreciate the game.
    • Vanor, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0Get a PSP and Monster Hunter, you can do everything in the game, in small bursts of time, or over a long period, and it's a lot more entertaining, enjoyable, and much more SATISFYING than World of Warcraft. Enemies just randomly drop weapons and armor, but in MH you have to MAKE them by killing enemies and carving their body for parts, mining ores, and foraging for plants.

      The game takes strategy and skill and preparedness. Nothing WoW has. And by skill, I mean twitch. WoW ain't reflex based, hitting the keys faster won't allow you to dodge that Shadowbolt coming your way, in the end, WoW is a glorified number cruncher. Monster Hunter isn't, it's much better, and the armor looks better, and the weapons look cooler than in WoW.

      Needless to say, that I'm on a mission from god to spread the word that this series is awesome, and that hopefully more people will play the sequel coming out next month, Monster Hunter Freedom 2.

      Gunlances and Hunting Horn, beat that Blizzard!!!!
      • Estaris, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1"Enemies just randomly drop weapons and armor, but in MH you have to MAKE them by killing enemies and carving their body for parts, mining ores, and foraging for plants." lol you just described WoW on both accounts. lol
  • MDrake, on 10/11/2007, -3/+1***** noobs always whining about hacks! No hacks, just me whooping your ass!
  • TheNapalm, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0I enjoy both, for a period of years I played a certain game for a certain clan and it was all about winning. If you didnt win you were nobody, if you won and continued to win you were looked at as gods.
    Then times change and people move on and currently I just enjoy playing casually with my bro on games like MLB 07 the Show, FORZA, Gears of War etc.

    IMO the best game out right now is The Elder Scrolls IV: OBLIVION, I love that game. Its a huge, huge game literally and figuratively.
  • Smiley09, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2There would be no one to own if it wasn't for the casual gamers, and then I wouldn't feel better about myself about playing a game better than someone else.
  • jason469, on 10/11/2007, -3/+0I used to be a "hardcore" gamer, I was in a Rainbow Six 3 clan (Xbox) and we used to pratice atleast five times per week. We had a lot of late session, going until five or six in the morning was common. We made it to the top 100 Clans on RB6 and after that is started getting too serious traveling to Las Vegas for matches and so on. We split up, I grew tired of the late night tranings and it just stopped being fun and that was the breaking point for most of us.

    I'm know a "casual" gamer and gaming is much funner when it isn't so serious.

    One thing that casual gamers do ruin is the tactical genre games. Rainbow Six 3 started off very tactical and then became a casual players gamer, but has gone back to it's roots with RB6: Vegas. Rainbow Six is fun again and I'm happy they went back to their roots, but not all games do that and it's a shame.
  • cmac50, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1The OnlineGaming market is growing so fast that lots of top companys are desperately striving to get in on the act. One well established company with a proven history are in fact in the pre-launch process of a combination gaming/social networking product with a new slant in that associates will get paid every time someone plays a game on the site. The market is so huge that it's expected $412 per second will be spent on online gaming. This company and their associates are seeking a share of that wealth. Want to learn more? Message me here: thelottery at iol dot ie
  • DeepFreezed, on 10/11/2007, -4/+1casual gamers are worthless to this industry. They don't buy game just play the same old over and over again.

    Wii will be the downfall of hardcore user base. Casuals came to dominate TV our demographics moved away from it. Where are we going to move when casuals take over games?
  • 1jaxstate1, on 10/11/2007, -4/+2I don't see how the hardcore gamer "needs" the casual gamer. I could care less about casual games, it's just not my thing. Nothing against them, but I don't need them. Nor does the industry.
    • Danjamin, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Yeah, why would the industry want to tap into a huge new market and then pump the revenue back into development making even better games? God damn you're dumb
  • Jaysunli, on 10/11/2007, -3/+2i like casual games
  • Speciou5, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Was I supposed to be impressed by the capitalized "DOUBLE or QUADRUPLE" statistic that was based on statistics and numbers they pulled out of their ass?
  • lokiwho, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0Really didn't much like the story. . . and you didn't specify what exactly a hard-core gamer qualifies at. Seems to me that you can casually play counter-strike for about an hour each day to pass the time and that would be considered casual, but what exactly makes some gaming "hard-core"
  • Estaris, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2From my years of playing, "hardcore gamers" are the ones who play 4 to 9 or more hours a day/night several days a week.
    The are gearing up or getting keyed (pre-req's for hard dungeons/instances,) and doing dungeons/instances etc.. almost every night.
    If you are in the right guild (read gaming club of sorts) you won't be in the younger population of chuckle-heads, though a few younger ones are rather sweet and not goofballs.
    My guild and my last one have and had people in the Army, bouncers, college students, nurses, stay at home full time mothers, business owners (have their own time.. a lot of these,) exec's, computer people (shocking I know,) weight trainer's, etc..
    Don't get me wrong.. there are some wacko's and some geeks. I simply avoid those people and don't join a guild that has that kind of population. You will always have "that guy" or a few that are geeky in every crowd but they are nice enough so *shrug.*
    When I end up talking about my plans for the night to my friends, "Yeah I'm raiding tonight" (read scheduled to do a high end dungeon with my gaming club,) they get a glazed look over their eyes..
    On the other end of the spectrum.. when they mention Big Brother or Survivor ( that right? lol) I have the same reaction that they do about my enjoyment of playing computer games.
    I can't relate and can't see the attraction nor have I ever tuned in to see because it all sounds like a newer version of a Jerry Springer program.
    To each their own.
    The old outlook of only geek's play video games is.. well old.
    Many walks of life play and interact with people all over the world by doing so. A little more stimulating then drooling in front of the tv. hehe Hard to be objective sometimes hum? :)
    • thorvath, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0Has Warcraft so enveloped your life that your brain interprets the word "hardcore" as "raider" and "casual" as "whiny baby" whenever you read them? They are talking about people who play quick and easy games versus people who play deep and lengthy games, not people who devote their lives to a cult, as you would say (read WoW).
      • Estaris, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1lol read years as... Diablo, Shadowbane, World of Warcraft... etc.. I Work full time, travel (St. Louis 3 times in the last 2 months and California next month,) social life, married, read books every night (not WoW books lol,) host dinner parties, and hardly a cult so much as like the game. lol Hardcore is someone who puts MANY hours/days into the game, like it's more then a part time job. THAT is a hardcore player not a raider.
        Whiny baby means constant complainer about things he can not change and vocalizes it to everyone they know (mainly to ones that can not do anything about it) over and over again to no avail to just "cry"about how "life,er, gaming isn't fair." *sniff* Maybe this echo's true to you perhaps? lol
        Easy there little hate machine.
        I was saying they, read you, have the definition wrong because you might be confused with the proper lingo, read you don't know what you are talking about.
        Have a great day Jerry Springer fan!:)
  • Tmax88, on 10/11/2007, -4/+0"Hardcore gamers"...must be the new euphemism for "***** losers"
    • Estaris, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Wow that's deep. You sound like such a winner!
    • Danjamin, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1hahah so true. Today's nerds arnt even smart, they just know everything there is to know about world of warcraft
  • BrandonMills, on 10/11/2007, -2/+2Casual games make massive $$$. Hardcore games don't unless they decide to have something there for casual gamers. In fact, this alone completely explains how Blizzard went from rags to riches in the first place. Is there such a thing as a 'hard' Blizzard game? Not really.

    ( Well, that and stealing every good idea they see, re-branding it, and doing it better than they the person with the original idea did. Warhammer, Warhammer 40k, Nethack, EverQuest. I don't think I've ever seen an original idea come out of Blizzard. )
  • Bladeweever, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Be sure to not discount the number of casual gamers that play current mainstream games, either. The people who are probably working all day, with a family, and a healthy life outside of gaming. If game publishers keep their games interesting enough for this large (yet low-impact) group, then it means more money for them and more/better content for games (hardcore or casual).

    These casual gamers don't put as much demand on the systems (for MMOs), since they're not on every possible waking hour like many hardcore players.
  • hydrokool, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1As someone who loves to play games, both console and PC, I truly enjoy casual games a lot. I grew up on an Atari 5200 playing Centipede, Super Breakout and PacMan. Casual Games brings back the enjoyable aspect of games, much like the Wii is doing too. Games are supposed to be fun and although lots of the bigger title console games are fun, there's a lot out there that's just over the top with graphics and not really fun to play.

    If you want to check out more casual games, visit http://www.deadant.com and see what I'm talking about.
  • jamesmcm, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I don't mind casual games like the battle mode on Mairo Kart 64 or the multiplayer on Goldeneye as it got the whole family to play and was very fun. One thing which concerns me though is that an increasing number of developers are releasing minigame collections and portable games on the Wii, I don't want stupid minigames or low-rate handheld games, I want fully-fledgged games like Mario and Zelda which make full use of the Wii's capabilities. My concern is heightened since Nintendo still haven't announced a new Star Fox game.
  • Vanor, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Monster Hunter Freedom is awesome. The next one is coming out next month. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFLaW4zqlv4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYlRMMknVmg&mode=related&search=
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6fAQxgj6FM This series is awesome, no matter who you are or what you do, this game is gonna be great.
    • thorvath, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0Do you work for Sony or Capcom, or are you looking to justify your PSP purchase, even when the DS was right there in the store next to it?
      • Vanor, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0No, this series is awesome, I don't work for nobody, I just love these games, and I think a lot of other people would too. And I have a DS....a pink one cuz that's all they had and by god I wasn't gonna wait to get one. So don't try to put that fanboy nonsense on me. I loved this series enough that I BOUGHT A PSP IF FOR NOTHING ELSE THAN MONSTER HUNTER. I've already put more time on MHF than on any game I've bought in the last year almost.
  • BabyWookie, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I consider myself to be a casual gamer. With work, friends and the singles scene, I don't have as much time, energy or desire to play as when I was a teen, pulling all-nighters with games like Final Fantasy 3, Doom and Master of Iron. I don't have the time, patience or tolerance for online multi-player games and all the teenage dolts that inhabit them these days.

    Still, that doesn't mean that I prefer these so-called "casual games". My preference are involving, story-based, cinematic single player games. They stimulate my imagination, reflexes, seratonin/dopamine levels, satisfy my predatory instincts and the need to escape from reality once in a while. I just play something like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. or RE4 on casual basis, like an hour or two, every few days, mostly on the weekends. Fighters like DoA4 and Fight Night 3, as well as ***** like Guitar Hero 2 are fun for when friends come over to hang out and drink some beers.

    Any way, I don't think that you have to only play Solitaire, Wii Sports and classic arcade games to be considered a casual gamer. It is possible to be a casual gamer and still be into "hard-core" games, especially if you are a former "hard-core" gamer.
  • Gamb10r, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1*Spoken in old man voice* back in my day "Hardcore" was a game where you had every key on the keyboard mapped with 2-3 button combinations and if you stuffed something up your PC was fdisk'd. And if you wanted to be "L337" (which wasn't invented back then) you had to rip a joystick out of an F-15 fighter, plug it into you PC and reinstall the OS.

    My standards dictate that everything out today is pretty much "Casual" and games like "Cook your Momma" and "Party down with Mario Tonight" are series of gimmicks made for American alpha mom the single greatest consumer in the universe. Don't get me wrong these "games" (and i use that term loosely) are creative and have merits but they will only continue to hurt Hardcore gamers because they sell well and people only make what they can sell. So Revolt!
  • walter909, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1battletoads FTW!
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