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See the original image at news.bbc.co.uk —

Blizzard wins Warcraft bot battle

news.bbc.co.uk — Blizzard has won the first round of a legal battle against the maker of software that automates game play in World of Warcraft.It brought the case against MDY Industries claiming its WowGlider program infringed its copyright.An Arizona district court has ruled MDY does infringe Blizzard's copyright but not in the way the game maker claimed.

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  • Evi1d33d, on 07/17/2008, -1/+168For a second I thought Blizzard pit their employees against the bots in a PvP.
    • kewidogg, on 07/17/2008, -2/+21That would have been more interesting at least
    • RealmDown, on 07/17/2008, -3/+8I'm on the side of the bots, and here's hoping for pay per view.
    • valleyman86, on 07/17/2008, -1/+5I agree but I was thinking they made a bunch of bots to fight against players. Title of this is really confusing until you read the article. It should probably say something about a legal battle.
      • catcher6250, on 07/17/2008, -0/+6it says on the first line below the title that its a legal battle

        talk about low attention span geez
      • valleyman86, on 07/18/2008, -0/+0I use a Google gadget and I don't see the descriptions. Titles mean a lot for my situation.
    • nmnnotmyname, on 07/17/2008, -0/+6Me too - That would've been crazy awesome.

      Not that they won but that something like this happened.
    • REBELNICK, on 07/17/2008, -0/+2lol i thought same i feel silly or brainwashed
  • MxM111, on 07/17/2008, -3/+27Can anyone explain how on earth Glider breaks Digital Millennium Copyright Act? Does it use art from the game or something?
    • Ricky81682, on 07/17/2008, -0/+25Probably related to some of the backwards engineering needed to get character details or other programming stuff. The DMCA has been completely abused.
      • goettel, on 07/17/2008, -15/+3I like how you combined "DMCA" and "backwards" in one post there.
    • lithera, on 07/17/2008, -1/+21The program (glider) copies some data from WoW to the RAM. Since Blizzard probbaly couldnt find another way to sue the makers of the bot they took this as a breach of their EULA and the DMCA
      • ooby, on 07/17/2008, -6/+2The article found that it wasn't a DMCA violation, but a breach of contract.
      • PhantomRogue, on 07/17/2008, -1/+20The Glider does NOT copy the data into RAM.

        Glider just accesses that Data that Blizzard writes to the RAM. The problem is that, since its now ruled illegal, technically, you now don't own the copy of WoW that is running on your PC (as was previously believed). Glider uses the RAM access (WoW.exe file loaded into RAM), to modify the gameplay. The issue is that, previously, this was believed to be fine, since you arent modifying the actual EXE, but the data its accessing, but now its not.
      • P0peRatz0, on 07/17/2008, -17/+27Does anyone here think it's OK for these little ***** companies to build software with the sole purpose of ***** up a popular online game?

        Forget for a moment the legal aspects. Can't they find some other way to make money besides ***** things up for the rest of us?
      • Murdats, on 07/17/2008, -2/+27@poperatz0
        morally and socially wrong, legally right.
        this is that line where you start dealing with peoples personal freedoms, and sometimes letting jerks be jerks is better then the loss of freedom.

        what next microsoft sues you for using certain programs because they interact with the memory that windows manages?
      • punkcat, on 07/17/2008, -2/+11oh noes someone took my fellweed.
      • MortVent, on 07/17/2008, -2/+16Actually glider runs the WoW executable in a sandbox area of ram so it can not detect the bot program.

        Which violates the user agreement, which in turn makes it illegal to copy the software into the sandbox.

        Which is where they managed to bite them legally.

      • radu79, on 07/17/2008, -9/+4Ok, well, I am thhe owner of a small MMO, and I side with Blizzard in this case.
        Besides for the obvious "it helps ***** up the game for the honest players", some programs (and I am not sure if it is the case for this particular software) use the game data in order to automatize various tasks. For example, they read the map information in order to navigate around, and so on.
        This data does not belong to the bot maker, nor does it belong to the player (the player uses it under a specific license). So by accessing that data without a license (the bot maker does not have a license from Blizzard), they are violating the copyright law.
      • flameboy, on 07/17/2008, -2/+5@radu79
        You think you own your "data", but I also know that I bought and paid for my own hardware. You think that just because your game is running in my memory that I no longer have a right to read the data in my RAM? Sorry buddy, your data is in MY hardware.

        Blizzard can sue this company, but it wont stop anything. There is no way a software company can claim that they own my hardware more than me. Hackers will continue to tinker with their own hardware and always will. You can shove your "copyright infringement" claims up your ass.
      • radu79, on 07/17/2008, -6/+2Oh, so if I steal your refrigerator and put it in my kitchen, it belongs to me, because it's on my territory, right?
        The data is still mine, you did not buy the data, you bought the right to use the data under a specific license.
      • flameboy, on 07/17/2008, -2/+4Nice. I like that your using the same data = tangible objects argument that the RIAA loves so much. I suppose you consider downloading music no different from stealing a CD huh?

        Even if that was true (and its not) your argument still falls flat on its face. Nobody is "stealing" anything. I purchase the data from you on that CD I pay money for. I run the game USING my hardware. At that point, I still have full rights to read, analyze, modify, and dump all data running in my RAM. You don't get to dictate how I use my hardware simply because I am running your game.

        That would be like music CDs requiring your playback device to not exceed 50% volume.
    • Chassit, on 07/17/2008, -0/+17FTA
      "Despite this decision Justice Campbell did not side with Blizzard in its claim that MMOGlider broke the terms of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act."
      • flameboy, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3The DMCA claim failed, but the Copyright Infringement claim succeeded. The court thinks that using Glider infringes upon Blizzard's copyright.
    • Xtanto, on 07/17/2008, -5/+2OK Chassit beat me to it by 20 mins or so :)

      QUOTE "Despite this decision Justice Campbell did not side with Blizzard in its claim that MMOGlider broke the terms of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act."
    • nmnnotmyname, on 07/17/2008, -0/+12Breaking news:
      Everything breaks DCMA
  • aIucard, on 07/17/2008, -3/+85Blizzard should have designed their own bots to fight the WowGlider bots. I think that would be the ultimate way to settle the issue.
    • Douceswild, on 07/17/2008, -7/+1best commet so far lol
    • Puffles, on 07/17/2008, -0/+10Nah, the chances of the world ending in a totally ***** bad-ass apocalyptic robot war would be too high.
    • EnjoyTheFact, on 07/20/2008, -0/+1Yeah, they could call them something catchy like NPCs! And when you killed them, you got...hm...what could we call it...experience! Perhaps if you killed enough you would get stronger! I like this idea, we should market it.
  • AnotherDiggGuy, on 07/17/2008, -11/+29After looking around, I came accross this comment - "As one who was banned, I knew the job was dangerous when I took it. I wasn't even using Glider but it was on my hard drive so I was in violation plain and simple."

    Since when is it legal for Blizzard to ban people based on some files on your hard drive? Being caught using it is one thing.

    Maybe this guy was lying, but if he's not, there has to be some serious legalities of even scanning ones computer looking for shady applications that are not running.
    • Fathom, on 07/17/2008, -2/+32He's not lying, this happens all the time. You agree to it in the EULA. Their program to detect it, Warden, also looks at everything on your desktop and all open windows.
      • Andrwmorph, on 07/17/2008, -0/+12A friend of mine was hit with the banhammer for having it on his desktop (he didn't use it once).
    • ivantalboys, on 07/17/2008, -2/+10Blizzard are not obliged to provide you with access to their game. They would probably fall fowl of the law if they said you could play because your black or old or a woman. But if they want to ban you they can.
      • localzuk, on 07/17/2008, -6/+3If they give a refund...
      • asforme, on 07/17/2008, -3/+5But they don't run foul of the law by saying you can only run it if you allow us to completely violate your privacy and scan your hard drive?
      • Balloondoggies, on 07/17/2008, -0/+5@asforme:

        Not if you agree that Blizz can do it when you agree to their terms of service, which you must do before you log in.
      • knowitman, on 07/17/2008, -0/+5@asforme

        They are providing you with a service that you don't have to agree to. When you logged in and agreed to the EULA, you agreed to everything in those terms. If you didn't agree, you shouldn't have said yes.
      • ivantalboys, on 07/17/2008, -0/+4@asforme

        There are racial and sexual discrimination laws and you can't waive any rights you might have under these laws just by signing a contract or agreeing to a EULA. However you can agree for a company to scan your hard drive so this would probably be enforceable under EULA.
    • Murdats, on 07/17/2008, -3/+12if you agree to let some antivirus scan your computer are you going to bitch?
      any time there is an update, you have to click "I Agree" part of agreeing is you agree that you will not have certain programs installed on your computer and that you give permission for it to check, if you dont agree, they have the right to stop serving you just as much as a restaurant does based on your shoes.
      • thugok, on 07/17/2008, -5/+1At which point they should be required to pay you back the price of the game since the (one sided) contract you agreed to when you bought the game has now been changed. But of course you have no chance against their legal team.
      • Kersius, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3Except that companies as a whole insert that wonderful clause in contracts along the lines of "we can update or change these rules at any time with or without notice"
      • flameboy, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3No problems here.
        Scan the computer, find hacks, bots, etc and ban the user. But for the love of god, do NOT try and claim that using hacks, bots, or cheats somehow makes one guilty of "copyright infringement".
    • Scopitone, on 07/17/2008, -4/+13"Oh, this weed/coke/gun in my car/house isn't mine officer. I just have it here. I wasn't going to use it. I just like HAVING things that I know are illegal to both possess and use. But if you bust me for this, you're violating my rights to do whatever the ***** I want!"
      • Caalro, on 07/17/2008, -2/+2Having a a gun in your house is neither illegal to possess nor to use.
        Coke/Weed are certainly illegal but cannot be held against you without a proper search.

        I understand your point but you used terrible examples.
  • Fhwqhgads, on 07/17/2008, -23/+80Good.

    Whatever they can do to get these cheating ***** off the game I'm all for it.
    • MooseTaag, on 07/17/2008, -21/+3That's what she said.
    • Dgc2002, on 07/17/2008, -29/+10Oh cry a little more. I'm sorry i got sick of playing more than 7 days played time to get to level 70 where i start to have fun. I have a job, i had school, i have responsibilities. At the end of the day i'd like to have fun, not do the same damned quest over and over to kill mobs with different names and collect items with different graphics. I want to kill 30 foot tall ***** with 24 other people at the end of the day.
      • whyufail, on 07/17/2008, -4/+21Here's an idea. If playing the game isn't fun then, I dunno. STOP PLAYING THE GAME *****! Your first mistake was playing a POS like WoW
      • calibration, on 07/17/2008, -1/+18Then don't play, how hard is that?
      • GreatSunJester, on 07/17/2008, -2/+19If you are not having fun from 1 to 70 then you are doing something wrong... like playing.

        Blizzard needs a new server called DaWhiner. You create a max leveled, epic geared character from day one. All gear in the game is available to be used by all chaaracters, and each class can use the abilities of any other class. No transfers to or from it.
      • dfeifer, on 07/17/2008, -4/+1HMM.. sounds like fun..
      • TheUngod, on 07/17/2008, -2/+6I have a job and responsibilities and blah blah and I play EQ, where getting to lvl 70 takes ungodly more than 7 days play time. If you don't have fun getting your character leveled, wtf are you playing for?? It sounds to me like you want a mindless action game. The point of an RPG is to level numbnuts.
      • bjornski, on 07/17/2008, -0/+4Hey, I"m sure the online poker players won't mind botters either.

        I mean, they're just trying to get to $10,000. And I mean some of them have jobs, and school, and don't want to play some stupid tournament over and over to win.

        I mean the game doesn't start getting fun until you've reached $10,000.
    • djlethal, on 07/17/2008, -19/+8Its a bot. for leveling. Stop crying
      • jerkfaceirl, on 07/17/2008, -2/+9Why not just not play the game at all and get a big sticker that says level 70 and stick it on your head, muppet.
      • flameboy, on 07/17/2008, -3/+2If people can write bots that can play your precious game, that's just TOO BAD. You cannot stop them. You can try to ban them, but in the end if your game is simple enough to be "botted" and there is incentive to do so, it will happen.
    • Spudster, on 07/17/2008, -20/+3Yeah WOW is so old now that it's not worth grinding through. Way better to just get a bot then move up to 70 quickly, especially since WOW doesn't let you buy characters.

      My friend has made over a thousand dollars from selling out his level 70 on Ebay then claiming someone hacked his account and Blizzard giving him it back.
      • sodade, on 07/17/2008, -0/+11Your friend is a douche and I hope someone kicks his ass.
      • Spudster, on 07/17/2008, -1/+6The morale of the story is don't buy WoW accounts. Nearly everyone does that.
    • minoss, on 07/17/2008, -8/+9Yea, who cares if it now makes EULAs legally binding and let's any company that makes software sue absolutely anyone who makes software that infringes on its EULA.
      • otros, on 07/17/2008, -4/+4I'm amazed that until you nobody commented on this, this is the real news. (well, this and the fact that the loophole that blizzard was trying to argue wouldn't hold in court)
    • TheUngod, on 07/17/2008, -0/+4They can't help it. After iddqd/idkfa/idspispopd people assume games should all allow you to breeze through. I mean really, why would you want a challenge when you can stare at your monitor and eat cheetos?
      • ElcyionCoire, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3if I could eat Cheetos *and* play, i would, but I have yet to find a cheese-resistant mouse/keyboard...
    • Teburninator, on 07/17/2008, -5/+1Come on Fhwqhgads I said Come on Fhwqhgads everybody to the limit everybody to the limit Come on NOW Fhwqhgads!

      Im sorry I couldn't help myself
    • flameboy, on 07/17/2008, -4/+5It appears you mentally handicapped WoW nuts have trouble grasping the real implications of what has happened here.

      The court has ruled that any EULA violation is backed by "copyright infringement" penalties. So now any software vendor can put whatever they want in their EULA and if you break it you are guilty of copyright infringement. Anybody who thinks this is a good thing is either a large software company or a total moron.

      "Do whatever it takes to get the terrorists! yeah!!!"
      Ignorant *****.
      • erix84, on 07/17/2008, -3/+1Did you bother reading the part where the judge didn't side with Blizz that Glider broke DMCA?

        Or are you too busy replying to every single post saying how the sky is falling and zomg ohnoez copyright infringement.
      • flameboy, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3I can appreciate your rebuttal, but unfortunately the problem is that this ARTICLE is very poorly written and doesn't convey all the information. I am not being alarmist, you simply did not learn about the other important copyright decision.

        The judge rejected the DMCA claim, however he did rule that users of Glider were committing Copyright Infringement. These were TWO DIFFERENT CLAIMS.

        Let me point you to the actual judgment as released by MDY: http://www.mmoglider.com/legal/order_july14_2008.p ...

        D. Copyright Summary - (page 16)
        "...use of Glider includes copying to RAM within the meaning of section 106 of the Copyright Act, users of WoW and Glider are not entitled to a section 117 defense, and Glider users therefore infringe Blizzard's copyright."

        Since the act of using Glider is committing copyright infringement, that leads MDY liable for vicarious infringement. This is the important part of the ruling and this is what I am very vocally upset about. Any violation of an EULA and a subsequent program execution results in "Copyright Infringement". Terrible, terrible, ruling.
  • blankis, on 07/17/2008, -7/+24Dugg for picture of the Halazzi encounter.

    Yeah, I'm a loser.
    • Tbab, on 07/17/2008, -3/+7You're cool.
    • donkevin, on 07/17/2008, -0/+2Jan'alai is harder imo. (but not much)
    • Tyrghast, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3ZA is some the most fun I've had in WoW, and I've been playing and raiding since release. I'm not a huge fan of the 10-25 man raid scheme, but powering through ZA for the timed event is hella fun.
  • str3ama, on 07/17/2008, -3/+14So instead of just having to shut down his business, now the owner(Michael Donnelly) is going to probably have to pay a huge fine to Blizzard if it moves up to a jury in September, as well as shut down. If he presses the case, he better hope that the jury has some Warcraft players who are pro-cheats.
    • Murdats, on 07/17/2008, -4/+12he wasnt going to shut down, and he chose to fight this fight rather then comply, he lost, he has to deal with it.
    • asforme, on 07/17/2008, -9/+5Or they could end up with a jury who's pro Jack Thompson and wants to stick it to the evil game company.
    • flameboy, on 07/17/2008, -3/+1uh, right
      ...or maybe they can get a jury that doesn't think that executing a program = copyright infringement. Maybe the jury will realize that EULA violations should not automatically be classified as copyright infringement.

      Stop making this about cheats you simple-minded brain-dead idiots.
    • fryguy1013, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1Why does the jury need to be "pro-cheat" to side with blizzard? They are claiming he broke COPYRIGHT by running glider. However, here is what happens:

      Glider runs wow.exe
      Wow copies itself into ram
      Glider modifies some of the ram that wow occupies.

      How is that copyright infringement?
      • AnotherBrian, on 07/18/2008, -0/+3Blizzard's argument is that the user doesn't own the copy of the game that they bought, thus they get no fair use or other protections in the copyright laws. Thus the Glider program is making an infringing copy of wow.exe when it load it and derivative works when it modifies the ram.

        The whole think hinges on weather the users OWNS or LICENSE the software as the EULA argues.

        See, if you OWN a copy of a work then your use of the work is only restricted by copyright law. We have copyright law because it would be completely impractical for a book seller to negotiate and sign and record a contract with EVERY member of the public that purchases the book. Thus we have the default contract called copyright law. There compromises on both sides as is normal for any negotiated contract.

        If you LICENSE a work, the original owner can insist on ANY sort of limitation that they want. Only with software that you have to install is there an opportunity to force the user to click on button labeled 'I Agree' in order to make use of what they paid for. A publisher that prints 'By opening this cover you agree to waive your right to resell this book" on the cover would be laughed out of court. For some reason this has been accepted in the software industry.

        This is a serious problem because almost any IP (books/music/movies/etc.) purchased by end users is OWNED by the end users. As much as I think that current copyright law is way out of balance, end users do have some essential rights under it. This ruling add legitimacy to the completely one sided EULAs that we have to click through when we purchase software that removes the already limited protections we have.
      • fryguy1013, on 07/19/2008, -0/+1Well, if all you're doing is breaking a licence, how is that copyright infringement?

        Does blizzard need to sue the makers of cedega, because it allows users to load a copy of wow from the hard disk, and then copy the associated libraries into the memory space and then set the next instruction pointer to somewhere in that memory?

        Is a user of a legitamite copy of world of warcraft who intentionally is going to exploit the game (and therefore against the EULA) performing copyright infringement?

        My main problem with the ruling is that the RAM is an extension of the architecture of the computer, and copying from the hard drive to ram is not really a "copy." If wow was installed onto a raid-mirror hard drive, is there two copies being created? Not to mention the fact that it is not glider that is creating the copy, but wow itself.

        Imagine if you will, that a player could start wow on his own accord, and then at some later time run glider. Would this be copyright infringement? Derivative works, maybe, although are derivative works copyright infringement if you don't redistribute them? The most illegal thing happening here is a license being broken, and it's not glider that is breaking the license, but the user (although that doesn't stop mod chips from being illegal). If this is the case, then what is the difference between this case and the case where glider is the entity that creates the wow.exe process?

        Would a creator of a dvd player that automatically blurred out people's faces in movies (a la google maps streetview) be found guilty of copyright infringement? The entire concept is the same: the dvd is loaded from the disc into the player's ram, then modified by blurring the person's face, and the mpaa grants you a license to play the movie for personal use.

        Like cheating or not, this ruling seems dumb.

  • doremon313, on 07/17/2008, -2/+63people are getting so lazy these day that they even have their video game characters automated
    • Rudegar, on 07/17/2008, -3/+7maybe they can get asian gold farmers to macroManage the bots
      and take part in raids and pvp so they dont have to do anything at all
  • kolyana, on 07/17/2008, -6/+32I've played a few MMOs in my time and the BOTs kill me, I mean they totally ruin the gaming experience. I can totally digg any software house/publisher trying to curb this through whatever means that they can, but I find it puzzling that this is the route that Blizzard has taken ... I find it questionable that copyright has been infringed (although this is, granted, without seeing the source code of Glider and really understanding technically what it is doing).

    I'll watch this one with some interest.
    • houndeyex, on 07/17/2008, -7/+5IMO, the bots are total noobs. I don't know how one manage to kill you. All you'd have to do is sorta move to the left and they'd be confused.
      • coyote1284, on 07/17/2008, -0/+4Bad joke, assuming you're joking and realized that kolyana's character wasn't actually killed by a bot.
    • Hokuman, on 07/17/2008, -2/+7... they didn't literally killed him... woot
  • sandiegodude, on 07/17/2008, -6/+23I haven't played WoW for a good 6 months now, but the bots were terrible back in the day. Common farming areas were always full of them running around in a circuit killing the same monsters over and over again, following the exact same path, plus a few more running against walls because their pathing somehow got screwed up.

    As for people saying "I had it on my hard drive and I got banned but I didn't use it" heh, they're full of *****. Blizzards loader does look at your running processes at startup, but it doesn't scan your storage devices. All its doing is checking for known keyloggers (which it will warn you about) and known botting/cheat progs.
    • blankis, on 07/17/2008, -1/+15Things haven't changed. Unguilded Beast Mastery hunters running around farming stuff in outland. It isn't difficult, though, to create a route that the horde bot-farmers use.

      Easy way to get a few hundred honor in a very small amount of time.
    • flameboy, on 07/17/2008, -6/+1I honestly don't give a ***** if bots ruing your entire WoW experience. That is a technological hurdle that blizzard must overcome. That's what happens when you have very repetitive and predictable games, sorry.

      The answer is not completely redefining copyright law to make EULA violations COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT. That doesn't make sense from any goddamn viewpoint. It's a sleazy technicality that will harm all US software consumers if it is upheld.

      This issue is not all about you and your little MMO playing experience.
      • sandiegodude, on 07/17/2008, -1/+3You're a tool. Let me just copy and paste from the article you didn't read apparently.

        "The summary judgement by US District Court Judge David Campbell says that MMOGlider, as the software is now called, breaks the terms of the license players agree to abide by when they run World of Warcraft (WoW).

        Despite this decision Justice Campbell did not side with Blizzard in its claim that MMOGlider broke the terms of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. "

        This doesn't have ***** to do with with the DMCA. The judge threw that out.

        I can actually see the glide maker having a pretty strong defense in court thanks to the fact they are the enabler, not the end user, which is whom the EULA is directed at and agreed upon to uphold when playing. This could get pretty murky, but Blizzard has plenty of money to basically drive the Glide maker into bankruptcy trying to defend themselves, which is the feeling I get Blizzard is planning to do.

        Next time try reading and comprehending the actual article instead of picking through the "OH NOES Teh Sky is Falling, OMG!!!" Digg comments and jumping on the me-too bandwagon.
      • flameboy, on 07/17/2008, -0/+2I can appreciate your rebuttal, but unfortunately the problem is that this ARTICLE is very poorly written and doesn't convey all the information. I am not being alarmist, you simply did not learn about the other important copyright decision.

        The judge rejected the DMCA claim, however he did rule that users of Glider were committing Copyright Infringement. These were TWO DIFFERENT CLAIMS.

        Let me point you to the actual judgment as released by MDY: http://www.mmoglider.com/legal/order_july14_2008.p ...

        D. Copyright Summary - (page 16)
        "...use of Glider includes copying to RAM within the meaning of section 106 of the Copyright Act, users of WoW and Glider are not entitled to a section 117 defense, and Glider users therefore infringe Blizzard's copyright."

        Since the act of using Glider is committing copyright infringement, that leads MDY liable for vicarious infringement. This is the important part of the ruling and this is what I am very vocally upset about. Any violation of an EULA and a subsequent program execution results in "Copyright Infringement". Terrible, terrible, ruling.
  • Visual77, on 07/17/2008, -2/+2http://techdirt.com/articles/20080716/1046271700.s ...
  • MacTyler, on 07/17/2008, -10/+7Dang it, looks like i'll actually have to get a job now.
  • foolfoolz, on 07/17/2008, -21/+13Anyone notice the part about how blizzard visited him at home and demanded the profits? Blizzard is just like anyone else, corporate *****.
    • Tbab, on 07/17/2008, -12/+2When a company gets that big, it's bound to happen. That's probably one of the main reasons some of the founders split and formed Flagship Studios.
      • Koskun, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3And Flagship Studios is now going/gone under.
      • Monk22, on 07/17/2008, -0/+4because hellgate was a ***** mess when they released it.
  • Scanner, on 07/17/2008, -10/+27Having lost a good year of my life to WoW (now recovered) I think its really really dumb for people to be using bots.

    When you sign up for a game like this you know going in its a grind fest that you will never win, and if you do "WIN" they just add more to grind for. A bot might bring you short term quick gains but overall will inflate the in game economy negating your new found wealth and make playing the game after that even HARDER.

    I don't really care about the legalities of the bot, Blizzard retains the right to ban anyone they want for any reason and good for them. In the long run you are really just hurting yourself.

    Besides, that warm spot between a womans legs (or man if you are one of the 4 women playing WoW) is WAY better than any epic item.
    • thelif, on 07/17/2008, -2/+19Have you SEEN the KJ drops?
    • KaiUno, on 07/17/2008, -1/+7Might still be warm spot between a mans legs even for the guys in there as every third word uttered in game is usually "gay".
    • SpudgeBoy, on 07/17/2008, -2/+18You should have found a girl that plays WoW. There are a lot more than four. I sit next to one when I'm playing and I am in a guild of couples. Yep, couples that WoW together stay together and touch each others warm spots.
    • ZimbuTheMonkey, on 07/17/2008, -2/+26Here's an idea. Maybe if you actually had some will power, you could manage a hobby like WoW AND a job AND a woman (yes, they are more than just vaginas). Having sex and playing World of Warcraft or any other game aren't mutually exclusive if you have some control over yourself.

    • sloorepuffkins, on 07/17/2008, -1/+14I am so one of those women.
      I love that game.
      I hate the bots.

      I've got a job, a wow playing husband and wow.
      What more could I ask for.
    • Tyrghast, on 07/17/2008, -1/+5I'm just gonna go out on a limb here and say you got kicked out of your Sunwell guild or a good arena team and now you're bitter.
    • PicklesNCheese, on 07/24/2008, -1/+4I play WOW myself, but Scanner's got a point. My boyfriend narrowly avoided a lifetime of celibacy himself when he spent nearly a year obsessively playing. If I heard "my guild needs me" one more time I was definitely ready to start sharpening knives.
    • Oea420, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3"If I heard "my guild needs me" one more time I was definitely ready to start sharpening knives."

      Story of my previous life.. lol... I went through three girls playing wow.. all leaving me

      "We are going to kill Vael tonight (When this was a BIG DEAL!) OMFG I CANT GO ANYWHERE.. gone

      "Babe we finallly have the guild-wide NR for Huhuran! They need me!"

      "Uhm, sorry, server-first sapphiron attempt tonight, i'm going NOWHERE!"

      Luckily, in BC, I stopped raiding.... hurrah for being a wash-up

      (And the last girl I was seeing is still moving away to some other dude! aahjdhska)
    • flameboy, on 07/17/2008, -0/+2I am all for Blizzard banning the botters. Ban the hell out of them!

      But please do not redefine software rights in detriment to the consumer. Executing a program on my computer is NOT copyright infringement. If the courts think that it is, then they simply do not understand computers.
  • Fathom, on 07/17/2008, -13/+20They're just playing the way they want to play, without hours of mind-numbing grinding. If Blizzard really wants to defeat these botters they should just fix the game so it's not so boring, especially in the lower to mid levels.
    • Tbab, on 07/17/2008, -1/+11I actually enjoyed leveling and grinding more than I did the endgame. Better sense of progression. Plus having to commit 3 to 4 (or more) hours to do a raid is a real pain in the ass. Especially back in the day, when there were 40-man raids. Man, what a time sink.
      • Tyrghast, on 07/17/2008, -1/+2Dude, 40 man raids was where it was at... 3 to 4 hours is nothing. Raiding is meant to be a D&D style experience, not something you do for 20 minutes and then leave. And 40 man raids had an epic quality to them, not these little weak ass ten or 25 man raids.
      • Vanor, on 07/18/2008, -0/+0Maybe you should try playing Monster Hunter sometime where you have epic battles with only 4 people, being stared down a by huge dragon, running for your life, not having to look at gauges and HUDs and other arbitrary, fun-killing *****, just you, three mates, with nothing but your skill to help you kill the likes of Crimson Fatalis or Rajang.

        THAT is epic.
    • punkcat, on 07/17/2008, -3/+7i don't mind bots, and i hate the time sinks Blizz puts in the game.
      WoW is very well designed around the subscription method and is a lot of fun, but they need to let people concentrate on the fun more than the grind.

    • SpudgeBoy, on 07/17/2008, -0/+13Then you clearly haven't played since patch 2.3 when they made it easier to get from level 20-60. No grond. I was level 42 last week and am headed to Outlands later today (60). Not much grind there. I can't turn in quests fast enough or I level out of them too fast.
    • mike17032, on 07/17/2008, -10/+8***** botters, and ***** you. Bots ruin the game for legit players.

      You try to win a WSG with 1/3rd of your team running in little circles.
      • bluekross, on 07/17/2008, -2/+1Yeah because they suck at making their own WSG profiles. Mine was the *****.

        I've since moved on from WoW, but I left with 5 70s all in full PVP gear. Raiding is ***** retarted, but PVPing was awesome. So was getting to 70 in a little over a week IRL
      • flameboy, on 07/17/2008, -1/+1Blizzard ruins software rights for everyone.
        ***** them, and ***** you.
    • Oea420, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3Even if the game was the MOST FUN THIGN IN THE WORLD


      There would still be that group of people who will do whatever it takes to get ahead without actually working.

      There's no avoiding that in ANYTHING you do
  • TotalHalibut, on 07/17/2008, -8/+3It's interesting to see the outrage from various internet advocacy groups (read those who don't know anything about the law), claiming that the precedent this judgment sets will take away users rights, make anti-virus illegal, and all sorts of other ridiculous doomsday scenarios. Before any of you get the same idea, just bear in mind how precedent actually works. Precedent has a narrow-focus, and is only applied to cases that are open/shut carbon copies of the original case. Any deviation in the circumstances that could potentially differentiate the case in question from the original precedent is usually taken as a reason to avoid using the precedent all-together. Precedent is binding on lower courts, but is not merely applied willy-nilly. The judgment specifically stated that the Terms of Use, stating that such programs were forbidden, was a decisive factor in the judgment. It's not suddenly going to make modding, anti-virus or whatever illegal.
    • TotalHalibut, on 07/17/2008, -2/+1That's it, keeping digging me down because the facts don't fit with your conspiracy theories.
      • flameboy, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1You're being dugg down because you are ***** wrong, numbskull. You haven't even read the judgment, you have no idea what anybody here is talking about as is evident in your other posts.

        You can't even understand the copyright/RAM issue at hand.
    • flameboy, on 07/17/2008, -1/+1People who think this will make anti-viruses illegal are confused.

      This is about any EULA violation becoming identical to Copyright Infringement. This is done through a ***** garbage loophole by telling the court that the data is getting "copied" from the harddrive to the RAM. I am sorry, this is deception plain and simple.

      Every single application must be copied to RAM, it is an essential step in the utilization of any computer program. This type of legal nitpicking does nothing but expand the reach of the already overreaching "copyright infringement" and hurts software consumers everywhere within the US.
  • Ellipsys, on 07/17/2008, -5/+14This opens a huge loophole for *AA organizations - Basically, the ruling states that loading a copy into RAM, which of course is required to play, can be considered a separate copy from the one that's on your hard drive. Glider doesn't interact with or modify anything server side. If Blizz wanted to reduce bot use, their damnable Warden program should have been enough. People who bot run the risk of being banned, but to take it to this legal level and tear a huge hole in the concept of fair use just to pin down a bot maker on a new technicality, disgusts me. I can't wait to hear the **AAs start telling people that the copy of the music playing out of your speakers is different from the one contained on the MP3 on your hard drive, whenever they feel like busting someone for piracy. Bravo, Blizz legal department. I really hope this is overturned soon.
    • Hokuman, on 07/17/2008, -4/+2.. the judge DID NOT agreed with blizzard that accessing the blizz files on the RAM is breaking the rules...
      read the article...
      • Ellipsys, on 07/17/2008, -1/+5I need to see more data. Every other article I've read on this decision suggests otherwise. Even one on Slashdot recently had a more comprehensive explanation of the legal ramifications, which could lead to the situation I spoke of above. Strange...someone has the story incorrect, one way or another.
      • Hokuman, on 07/17/2008, -3/+1either way i liked the comments about what create a precedent, most of the people complaining to what blizzard is doing is because they think that if blizzard wins this will create a precedent that will give extreme power to copyright and create a great chaos in the sells of games and stuff... ( and i didn't read any complains that actually made sense, please link me to one if you see )

        I just believe we are thinking to much ahead right now, we need to be talking about what glider is doing, because what glider is doing is just damn wrong, he is destroying ( maybe a too hard word ) the game for other users...
    • TotalHalibut, on 07/17/2008, -5/+1You do not know anything about the law, quit pretending that you do. ***** internet-lawyers.
      • Ellipsys, on 07/17/2008, -0/+4Here is an excerpt from Blizzard's motion for summary judgment.

        In this Circuit, the “copying” element may be proved in software cases by showing an unauthorized reproduction of a copyrighted software program in the computer user’s Random Access Memory (“RAM”). The Ninth Circuit has recognized that “the loading of software into the RAM creates a copy under the Copyright Act.” MAI Sys. v. Peak Computer, Inc., 991 F.2d 511, 519 (9th Cir. 1993), cert. dismissed 510 U.S. 1033 (1994); Triad Sys. Corp. v. Se. Express Co., 64 F.3d 1330, 1334 (9th Cir. 1995); see also Twentieth Century Fox Film Corp. v. Cablevision Sys. Corp., 478 F. Supp. 2d 607, 621 (S.D.N.Y. 2007) (agreeing with the “numerous courts [that] have held that the transmission of information through a computer’s random access memory or RAM . . . creates a ‘copy’ for purposes of the Copyright Act,” and citing cases.) When such a copy is made in excess of a license, the copier is liable for copyright infringement. Ticketmaster LLC v. RMG Techs., Inc., 507 F. Supp. 2d 1096, 1107 (C.D. Cal. 2007) (‘“When a licensee exceeds the scope of the license granted by the copyright holder, the licensee is liable for infringement.”’ (citation omitted)).

        There is no dispute that to run Glider with WoW, users must load WoW from their hard drive into their computers’ RAM, at which point WoW is able to be both perceived and communicated, including interaction with Glider itself. (SOF ¶¶ 50-52). When a user first launches WoW, the executable of the program is loaded into RAM, and as they move through the game, additional copyrighted game content is loaded from the hard drive into RAM as the player reaches points in the game with which that content is associated. (SOF ¶ 51). In order to avoid easy detection and blocking of Glider by Blizzard’s anti-cheat technology, Glider users rely on Glider’s “launch pad” to initiate the start up and loading of WoW into RAM. Clearly, Glider users’ loading of WoW into RAM creates a copy for purposes of the Copyright Act.
        The Glider users’ copying of WoW in circumstances exceeding their license is copyright infringement. LGS Architects, Inc. v. Concordia Homes of Nev., 434 F.3d at 1150, 1156 (9th Cir. 2006). For example, in Ticketmaster, the court held that using a bot program to access and download copies of copyrighted web pages into RAM in order to purchase large quantities of tickets ─ where the use of bots for this purpose was prohibited by the website’s terms of use ─ infringed Ticketmaster’s copyrights. Id. at 1102-03, 1109-10. Here, WoW players similarly have agreed not to use third-party applications to launch WoW, not to run bot programs in conjunction with WoW, not to exploit WoW for commercial use, nor to mine information from WoW gaming environment. Thus, when users copy WoW with Glider, they exceed the scope of their license, and infringe Blizzard’s copyrights.

        Under the traditional test for contributory copyright infringement, a party is liable where it had “knowledge of the infringing activity and induce[d], cause[d], or materially contribute[d] to the [activity].” Perfect 10, Inc. v. Amazon.com, Inc., 487 F.3d 701, 727 (9th Cir. 2007); A&M Records, Inc. v. Napster, Inc., 239 F.3d 1004, 1019 (9th Cir. 2001). In Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios, Inc. v. Grokster, Ltd., the Supreme Court held that a software distributor also induces infringement where its product is used to infringe copyrights “if the product is not capable of ‘substantial’ or ‘commercially significant’ noninfringing uses.” 545 U.S. 913, 942 (2005) (citation omitted). Under either of these formulations, MDY plainly is liable for Glider users’ repeated infringements.

        A gift from this Internet-Lawyer to you, internet tough guy.

      • Ellipsys, on 07/17/2008, -0/+2Update: Here is an except from the ruling on that summary judgment:

        Blizzard owns a valid copyright in the game client software, Blizzard has granted a limited license for WoW players to use the software, use of the software with Glider falls outside the scope of the license established in section 4 of the TOU, use of Glider includes copying to RAM within the meaning of section 106 of the Copyright Act, users of WoW and Glider are not entitled to a section 117 defense, and Glider users therefore infringe Blizzard’s copyright. MDY does not dispute that the other requirements for contributory and vicarious copyright infringement are met, nor has MDY established a misuse defense. The Court accordingly will grant summary judgment in favor of Blizzard with respect to liability on the contributory and vicarious copyright infringement claims in Counts II and III.
  • ieatpizza, on 07/17/2008, -1/+8EULA's have WAY too much power. Pretty soon they'll just say that they have the right to all the files on your computer when you run WoW, and no one will read it (including myself).
    • Depravo, on 07/17/2008, -5/+2EULA's have no power at all unless you accept them.
      • Travelsonic, on 07/17/2008, -0/+8Accepting them, IMO, mean *****.

        If for example something turns out to be illegal/un-enforcable, then it's un-enforcable/illegal regardless of whether or not you accepted it.
      • ElcyionCoire, on 07/17/2008, -1/+1Need you be reminded that you can't install, let alone *use* software without accepting the EULA...?
      • Kappa00, on 07/17/2008, -1/+3I can use someone's account and not break anything because I accepted nothing.
    • SpudgeBoy, on 07/17/2008, -4/+2Nope, they are just getting rid of bots, nothing more, nothing less.
  • cobainirvana, on 07/17/2008, -7/+28WHO CARES!? GIVE US RELEASE DATES FOR SC2 AND D3!!
    • Hokuman, on 07/17/2008, -4/+3i do care, but i agree with ya in that
    • newwildlife, on 07/17/2008, -0/+7OMG SC2 is going to make me wet my panties!
  • Mohdoo, on 07/17/2008, -2/+11Youch! This is really going to be hurting China's economy.
    • thelif, on 07/17/2008, -0/+13No, we have real people that click stuff.
    • GreatSunJester, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3It is cheaper to use people to run the farm characters. They tried using monkeys once, but PETA raised such a stink about abuse......
  • mike17032, on 07/17/2008, -2/+4Looking at the 15 bots running around the AV I just finished, it doesnt look like Blizzard is winning anything.
  • djlethal, on 07/17/2008, -3/+12WoW isn't a game... its a lifestyle..
  • minoss, on 07/17/2008, -1/+12This ruling has basically made ANY program that violates ANY EULA now copyright infringement and hence illegal. Their argument is that because a computer "copies" the program to ram while it runs, and if you break the EULA you are no longer allowed to "copy" the program to ram, hence it's copyright infringement to break the EULA.

    This is yet another case where courts make a major ***** up with regards to technology.
    • Scurro, on 07/17/2008, -5/+1apparently you didnt read the article: "Despite this decision Justice Campbell did not side with Blizzard in its claim that MMOGlider broke the terms of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act."
      • minoss, on 07/17/2008, -1/+5I never said it broke the DMCA. I said he ruled it broke copyright law. Copyright law has existed for well before the DMCA. Now maybe you should read the article.
    • 1legend, on 07/17/2008, -0/+2Yeah even though I don't like bots n people who cheat in games I really think this was a bad call by the judge. The claim is absurd.
  • soot, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3Robots have rights
    • bjornski, on 07/17/2008, -0/+2Andrew? Is that you? Or that silly Project 2501?
  • Hokuman, on 07/17/2008, -6/+1Well i just hope blizzard win this, so we can get rid of another ***** head bot creator...
    • xino, on 07/18/2008, -0/+2It sounds to me like you could care less what the consequences are as long as one of them is getting rid of bots. If they decided that people using bots was punishable by death, you would probably support that too because the most important think in your mind is gettting rid of bots.
  • whyufail, on 07/17/2008, -0/+8I'm glad they shut those botting idiots down with a vengeance(cry more botters ;_;), but their means of doing it was destructive and obnoxious. The whole idea that modifying things in RAM can be considered a "record" to be turned over or be used to violate copyright is a terrible idea.
    • flameboy, on 07/17/2008, -1/+3This ruling wont stop botting. It will just hurt software consumers everywhere.
  • SpyCatcher, on 07/17/2008, -4/+3Any way you want to rationalize it what they are selling is an advantage to the people who have purchased the BOT or in simple terms it's called 'Cheating'.

    How many games have you spent your hard earned money on only to have the cheaters ruin the enjoyment for you very quickly?
    • flameboy, on 07/17/2008, -2/+3I don't care. That doesn't mean you get to redefine copyright law.

      "We gots to do anything we can to get da terrorists!!@1"
  • abovegod, on 07/17/2008, -4/+5Botting was the only thing that made that game tolerable.
    • SpudgeBoy, on 07/17/2008, -3/+1Yes and 10 million people agree with you.
  • thebitghost, on 07/17/2008, -6/+5blizzard is evil. you really can not tell these bots are running, they just want you to play (and therefore pay the subscription fee they charge in addition to the game cost) for as long as possible and bots help to reach these levels of play experience more quickly. i mean seriously, the game really does not start until you get to level 70. up until then there is just a bunch of repetitive ***** you have to endure for over 6 months. And if you decide find you like to play a different type of character then you have to do the WHOLE PROCESS AGAIN. this happend to me twice. I made a rogue and found out from playing an alt that i like healing much better than doing great damage. so i had to waste another 8 months playing all the same crap i already did with a new character.
    And don't tell me about "game economy" either. no one understands the REAL economy let alone the game economy. if you think you do then you are just a delusional idiot.
    and bot players are more welcome IMHO than most of the idiot teens/pre-teens/kids that play alot as well. at least bots don't join your raid and then leave 10 minutes into it cause their friend wants to ride scooters.
    Anyway, if you think Blizzard is doing this because it wants to "protect the gaming experience" then you are right, the gaming experience is the endless loop of monthly fees they can keep collecting from playing their endless game.
    • Hokuman, on 07/17/2008, -1/+2if you don't like to play games that have a subscription do not play a MMORPG, why don't play the other games blizzard offer ya like DIABLO or Starcraft that you just buy the game and play for the eternity and don't have to play anything else...

      and don't tell me the game only start at lvl 70, i had a LOT of fun doing instances or just playing solo on areas that are lower than lvl 70... and if you need 6 months ( or 8 months ) to reach lvl 70 them you are doing something wrong.

      I usually 8 to 16 hours per week and i'm in my third month already lvl 68 =]
    • hawtpawkithero, on 07/17/2008, -2/+2you are correct, sir!
      I botted from 5-70 on my current character, having played the game almost since release day.
      It is such a time saver, you people have no clue. The best things in the game start at 70, and you don't have to do anything to get there. Using good guides, glider can get you to 70 in about a week.

      About the case, this is really messed up. I've been following the case since it broke, and it's looking nastier and nastier. This case CAN set a legal precedent that puts US, the consumer, at a huge disadvantage when buying software. You people need to stand up and fight for your rights, not sit back and let the corporate pigs take them away from you for their own best interests.
    • OMGIAMTHEMAN, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3even worse than someone ditching your raid after 10 minutes is someone staying in your raid the whole time that botted their toon all the way to 70 and has no freaking clue how to use half their abilities since they didn't spend months leveling. There's a reason they give you a few at a time, it's so that getting to 70 means you know how to play your toon.
    • PicklesNCheese, on 07/24/2008, -1/+2I can see why people hate botters. Still, I absolutely hate levelling and grinding and can totally understand why someone would use Glider. Fortunately, I live with someone who actually enjoys spending all day hunting *$@($# Zevra hoofs. There are alternatives to botting = just trade sex for levelling! Not sure what you men will do though...
  • mKdiR, on 07/17/2008, -1/+2whats a game better than wow (srs question)
    • hawtpawkithero, on 07/17/2008, -1/+1Team Fortress 2
      • SpudgeBoy, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3Yes, because a remake of a remake of a mod created for quake is the shiz natz.
    • Durrok, on 07/17/2008, -0/+1Well you didn't really give enough data to answer that question. In it's genre WoW is arguably the best game, although I really enjoyed a lot of the features EQ2 incorporated into their game. However there are many days I enjoy GH3 more then WoW, so to each their own.
    • Acglaphotis, on 07/17/2008, -0/+1Try Guild Wars. It's like WoW but without the subscription fees and cartoon characters.
    • DifferentAngle, on 07/17/2008, -3/+0"Bury the n00b"
    • bjornski, on 07/17/2008, -0/+1I'm currently an EQ2 subscriber and Second Life resident.

      Played pretty much every MMO out there, and these are the ones I gravitate to.
  • RandoTheKing, on 07/17/2008, -7/+1Lame. Botting is the only thing that makes these games enjoyable because I don't have to waste my life away to gain exp.
  • Vodd9, on 07/17/2008, -0/+2I wish they would do the same thing with Starcraft and throw the hackers back into Oblivion, if you know what I mean.
  • SirZRX, on 07/17/2008, -1/+3and multiboxing is legit. bah!
    • Scurro, on 07/17/2008, -0/+1why not? the coding of the game has not been changed.
      • Asniper, on 07/17/2008, -1/+1nor has the code changed with mmoglidr.
    • nephilimx, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1Multiboxing is just running scripts which are built into the game remotely, has little to do with this.
  • BedPost, on 07/17/2008, -6/+8Hey, morons. I don't think any of you realize just how terrible of a precedent this case has set against you, the consumer. Blizzard won on the grounds that copying a game into RAM is illegal copying of a game. Do you even understand what that means?! That means if you listen to a song, play a game, watch a movie - all of which WILL be copied into RAM, in small, small portions at some points - constitutes illegal copying.

    This was a terrible, terrible precedent, and Blizzard has done more to enable the RIAA/MPAA than any of you fools will ever realize. Thankfully, there's already been a precedent ruled in the OPPOSITE direction - that is, copying into RAM is not illegal copying - and this will be a slam dunk in any appeals court.
    • TotalHalibut, on 07/17/2008, -5/+4You don't have a law degree, quit pretending that you know what you're talking about.
      • BedPost, on 07/17/2008, -4/+4You're right, I don't have a law degree, but this isn't hard to understand. This is the same kind of tactic the RIAA used on TorrentSpy - calling up RAM as a form of permanent, rather than temporary, memory.

        I might not have a law degree, but I do have half a brain - it's obvious that you don't.
      • TotalHalibut, on 07/17/2008, -5/+2Oh I'm sure it is. Well let me tell you something. I do have a law degree, and I actually understand how precedent works. Read the damn judgment, it has next to nothing to do with the RAM in the first place, and is completely different to the Torrentspy case. You don't know *****, and neither does anyone else whining about this. Read the judgment, learn some basic legal knowledge, then call me. Until them, quit wasting everyone's time with your gibberish.
      • BedPost, on 07/17/2008, -2/+5Oh, you're a lawyer? Really Mr. Bain? Because after quickly scrolling through your profile and glancing through your utterly ***** website (with music enabled by default - seriously, what the hell?), it's pretty clear you aren't. TotalBiscuit, of wcradio.com, is a 24 year old named John Bain - that is, you. Your picture is not one of a lawyer - http://www.wcradio.com/crew.php - it's more of one of a complete douche, and a skilled internet troll. Tell me, Mr. Lawyer, how is it that you manage that website and all your clients at the same time?

        If you have a law degree, then you sure as hell didn't pass the bar. It's pretty clear you're just a WoW lover burying anything even remotely anti-Blizzard.
      • TotalHalibut, on 07/17/2008, -5/+2Haha could you be any stupider? Not everyone with a law degree bothers to pursue a career in law. Personally I got bored of the entire thing by the time we were knee-deep in Company Law.

        I'm sorry if you somehow believe that by looking at somebody's photo you can divine their career choice and qualifications, but that's the mark of a mad-man jumping to conclusions on the basis of flimsy evidence, rather than any actual intelligence on your part. I suppose you think you're some elite internet detective, looking at my profile at all. Sharp work Holmes, good luck finding something that actually proves anything.

        Oh, and we're one of the most critical commentators on Blizzard on the net, not that you care since that would shatter the glass-house reality you're living in. John Bain LLB bids you good day, and laughs his arse off at you in the process.
    • flameboy, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3@TotalHalibut
      "I do have a law degree, and I actually understand how precedent works. Read the damn judgment, it has next to nothing to do with the RAM in the first place"

      Really? Which judgment are you reading? Because I am reading the one directly off the MDY's website:
      http://www.mmoglider.com/legal/order_july14_2008.p ...

      Here is a short quote (pg6):
      "Ninth Circuit holds that the copying of software to RAM constitutes 'copying' for purposes of section 106 of the Copyright Act...Thus, if a person is not authorized by the copyright holder to copy the software to RAM the person is guilty of copyright infringement..."

      And it actually goes on to talk about the RAM/copyright implication for that entire section. Are you sure you have a degree and aren't a dropout? In any case, you look really dumb IMHO because BedPost was pretty much dead on, and you were pretty much completely wrong. So plz go away and stop your little fantasy.
    • Shawn4168, on 07/17/2008, -0/+1@flameboy
      BedPost was not dead on...you proved him wrong in the very part of the judgment that you quoted. You know, the part that says "Thus, if a person is not authorized by the copyright holder to copy the software to RAM the person is guilty of copyright infringement..."

      The vast majority of WoW players, the ones that follow the EULA, are LICENSED by Blizzard to copy the software to the ram. As long as they continue to be licensed, there is no breach of copyright. It's when the user is unlicensed by the software maker, that copying a game to RAM constitutes a copyright violation. As long as you are licensed to use the software, as long as you follow the EULA, there are absolutely zero legal implications against you.
      • flameboy, on 07/18/2008, -1/+1Wake the hell up.
        The software writer makes the EULA. Anybody who sells software can craft their own EULA - and it can be ANYTHING! Any violation of this EULA and subsequent program execution results in "copyright infringement"? Sorry, but that is a complete and total misrepresentation of what copyright infringement is, and furthermore it gives EULA's faaaar more authority than what should be permissible.

        You break the EULA? Fine, ban the user. But don't try and tell me that breaking the EULA = copy infringement because of some arcane and idiotic explanation about copying data to RAM.
    • Pake, on 07/18/2008, -1/+1You're an idiot Bedpost.. This doesn't mean you can't listen to a song, a game, or watch a movie, because first off, you are legally allowed to copy your media and second off, it's acknowledged that the only way to use such media is to copy a portion into the ram.

      What this does mean is that any program not given the right to load files from other copyright software titles is liable for copyright violation. Next time, read into this ***** instead of just spouting off what the little botters are saying to protect their asses from getting banned.
      • flameboy, on 07/18/2008, -1/+1No. You are an idiot.

        "What this does mean is that any program not given the right to load files from other copyright software titles is liable for copyright violation."

        So you are okay with software manufacturers telling you how you may use your own hardware under penalty of copyright infringement? That's good for you. You are clearly not a very advanced computer user and therefore are happy to give up rights to your own hardware. You go back to playing solitaire while people who actually know about computers can discuss this ruling. Noob.
      • Pake, on 07/18/2008, -1/+1They aren't telling me how to use my own hardware. They're only telling me that their files must be ran using their software and creating any program that uses those files without permission from the creators is against the law.

        I'm so sorry your little bot was banned and now you once again have to use no skill to play a game with no skill require. I'll cry some tears for you, seriously, because I know just how hard it is to level in WoW....
      • flameboy, on 07/18/2008, -1/+1You ignorant tool.
        If there is a program running on my computer that is misbehaving, I have every right to debug that program in RAM because it is running on my system. According to you, debugging an application would be "copyright infringement" if it is against the EULA.

        Not only is that laughable, but it flys in the face of all prior computing standards. I am sorry, but you are just a little computer noob who doesn't understand any of this. I don't care about bots, I don't care if they all get banned. I care about retarded ***** precedents set because well funded companies can manipulate technology-illiterate judges into bad decisions.
      • Pake, on 07/18/2008, -1/+1Debugging doesn't require you to copy a programs files and manipulate them with a 3rd party program. Debugging software doesn't require manipulation of the code to take place.

        Go back to WoW where the rest of the idiots are.
  • Cputerace, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3They should follow the paradigm that Runescape does. Random events that pop up and can kill you if you don't do something like accept x amount of gold from a troll. Players can easily accept the gold and move on, bots wont accept them, and (in runescape) the troll gets ticked off and attacks you, killing you.

    For mining, the pickaxe head randomly flies off, and you have to run over and pick it up again or loose the pickaxe.
    • hawtpawkithero, on 07/17/2008, -1/+2Why can't a bot just be programmed to realize what is happening on screen?
      There probably isn't any bot that does at the moment because most programmers realize that programming a bot for such a ***** game isn't worth their time.
      • SpudgeBoy, on 07/17/2008, -1/+3Yes and 10 million people think this game is ***** also.
  • Tyrghast, on 07/17/2008, -1/+2Blizzard could do so well if they took the EvE online stand when it came to third party business regarding their game, which is: go for it. Now obviously they could keep and eye on it and let from getting out, but Blizzard has created so many jobs from this game. If only they weren't money grubbing whores they would realize the limitless potential of enabling the market that has sprung up around their game, but from a monetary standpoint it makes sense to continually ban people (even if they are innocent, like I was) so they'll keep buying copies of the game they are hooked on.
  • advthry, on 07/17/2008, -4/+2According to the ruling, my virus scanner violates Blizzard's copyright since it copies the contents of the executable into memory to examine its contents and behavior. Blizzard should be reminded that if it chooses to selectively enforce its copyrights and not go after virus scanner manufactures with the same vigor they risk their copyright falling into the public domain.
  • Medicinebow1, on 07/17/2008, -0/+1/2 Paying 1000G for an arcane/frost epic mage to grind me to 60!
  • WorkingDead, on 07/17/2008, -0/+5Your skill in Law Suites has increased to 275
  • FredFredrickson, on 07/17/2008, -0/+1The simple solution should have just been to detect when players are being run by Glider, and then flag them for faction-inclusive PVP (like an arena fight). Any players who are tired of seeing the same idiot bot grab up all the mining nodes in an area could just smash it a few times, stopping the bot, and letting players relieve some frustration.
    • Vektuz, on 07/17/2008, -0/+1it was undetectable
    • lynx44, on 07/17/2008, -1/+1While not as simple as you make it sound, I agree. I don't think Blizzard should try to win this fight on a legal technicality. This is just an excuse because they're too lazy to figure out how to stop it, so instead they're suing. It makes them look bad and it could possibly set a bad precedent for all kinds of software.
    • FredFredrickson, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1I realize it's not easy to detect a bot, but I'm sure that if they analyzed the behavior of bots for a period of time, they'd figure out something that might clue them in on whether or not the player is a human or not.
  • wexmajor, on 07/17/2008, -2/+2Bots piss me off but censorship is worse by a large margin. I imagine this precedent will open the door to some ***** up *****. ***** you Blizzard, maybe you should be finding better ways to detect and ban bots instead of attacking technological freedom and consumer rights.
    • Skorme, on 07/17/2008, -2/+2You sign off that right to use that program when you agree to their EULA.



      *****.
  • bakatrinh, on 07/17/2008, -2/+1I quit WoW for awhile now but back then I was a pro botter. I botted four characters to level 70 and farmed 15,000+ gold. I didn't suck at the game though, before that I had a level 70 Priest that was #1 on the 2v2 Arena PvP. But yeah I got bored with the game and sold everything
  • bghs2003, on 07/17/2008, -0/+2I don't see how this is a win for Blizzard. All it says is that users of wowglider break world of warcraft's terms of service agreement, and that Blizzard is within their rights to deny service to those who use it. This does not change anything.
    • natertots, on 07/17/2008, -0/+1wow, someone here actually read the article. i don't see how he would owe blizzard a dime for selling glider. it's people that bought it and used it that actually broke the eula they agreed to.
  • stealthc, on 07/17/2008, -0/+2World of Warcraft: $15 a month to watch your Dwarf hack at rocks.

    No thanks.
  • repins, on 07/17/2008, -1/+2what does this mean for windows vista? Does it now make RAM copies of the programs you use the most to reduce load times?
  • KingGorilla, on 07/17/2008, -1/+1Was anyone expecting robot fighting?
  • 007Allmighty, on 07/17/2008, -3/+1People. You don't get one thing. Blizzard won their battle because of what? They stopped WoWGlider user's playing the game? Or because all those people who were using this (il)leagel program to automatize the game(play). If you, as one of the million's subscribers find WoW boring, you, cause some friends who haven't even reach adulthood advise you install third party software so you can become "god" (as in obtaining gold and getting super prima items), install that softare, you unintentionally bring this game to a destruction. Yes, you read it right. With every gold you get, you sink this game (or rather your realm) into bigger depths of oblivion (not the game). You not just ruin economy of the server, you do NOT contribute ANYTHING AT ALL to your server. And that's the point. You're being egoistic bastard with latest epics and skill of a, ekhm, not even a beginner. Put your knowledge (that you have) in some means. Do PvP, get accepted in some hard/soft-core guild and do your best. And NO, reaching this goal only is NOTHING AT ALL. Have you done your best in that thing? NO, you didn't. Till you've mastered the game, you have several months of gameplay. You can't learn everything in one day/week. Skill comes from experience. And experience comes from active gaming.
    And to comment one guy's reply; the game DOES start at level 1, it's YOU who don't take game seriously untill level 70. Now go cry at level 70 that you can't find a good party for a heroic/arena. You know why you can't find a good party? Cause you are a f****** moron whose got NO SKILL AT ALL! And no one want's to invite you to their group because of your terrible skills. (Skills? You don't know what that means...). I've been playing this game for 3 years (not playing now from May on...) and I'm pretty sure that the above's writings does posses years of knowledge of the game itself.

    To all of you, gamers who are against the latest Blizzard's action:

    using bots DOES HURT THE GAME! Blizzard is aware of that. Blizzard will fight against that with any means necessary. There is only one problem. People who play this game. They are so fed up with it, that instead ending with it in proper way, they use third party softwares and hurt the game, instead of just letting it go. It's called addiction. End of story folks!
    • AngeloM3, on 07/17/2008, -1/+1Anyone have cliff notes?
    • flameboy, on 07/17/2008, -2/+1"Blizzard will fight against that with any means necessary."

      Right. They will fight against it and in the process harm our software rights as consumers. I bet your a Bush supporter as well.
      • Pake, on 07/18/2008, -1/+1You honestly think you have the right to steal someone else's files to use for your own software without given permission? Unless the creators of the file give you direct permission to load their files into memory from a program other than the program intended to use those files, you are committing a copyright violation. Is it really that hard to understand?
      • flameboy, on 07/18/2008, -1/+1Yes it is hard to understand you blithering idiot. PAYING for a program gives me the explicit right to install and run it. What is this "stealing" you speak of? Stop pulling ***** out of your ass, you don't know what you are talking about.

        "use for your own software" What the ***** are you talking about, *****? Stringing words together to form pretty sentences, are we?

        Do you even know what copyright infringement is supposed to be? No, you don't. If you did you would understand that this is an extremely clear example of an abusive interpretation.

        I am not going to bother to explaining the issue in any more depth here because you are quite frankly too much of a computer noob to grasp any of it. And if your only argument is that you think its OK to cede your computer rights to software companies because of *botting*, then you should go join the Bush administration's fight against terrorism.
      • Pake, on 07/18/2008, -1/+1Paying for a program gives you the right to install it and run it, yes, that is indeed right. HOWEVER, it does not give you the right to install it and use it's files in another program unless explicitly given permission by the author of the software.

        Oh, and I highly doubt you support Obama. You're probably just some little bandwagon hopper on Digg who just goes with whatever seems popular. You probably first supported Ron Paul, would have sucked his dick on a dime's notice if it would give you some diggs up. You're intelligence shows to be that of a RP supporter, babbling on about something you know nothing about, but you saw someone else get dugg up for it so now you say the same thing hoping to be some sort of cool guy on digg.
      • 007Allmighty, on 07/18/2008, -1/+0Bush supporter? Nope. Not even living NEAR world's largest consumer, polluter and country with most dumb celebrities.

        One thing more, do you think Blizzard is only company who invades your computer and checking for (in this case only one) thing(s), the above mentioned program? You are mistaken. At least Blizz confessed they are doing this, in comparison with all others, who are harming your computer in more lethal way. Which? Put Microsoft on first place.
    • jayscot, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1Blizzard has you to thank for the loss of many subscribers...*****.
  • AngeloM3, on 07/17/2008, -0/+5Anyone reminded of the South Park episode?

    "This quite possibly could be the end of the world................................ of warcraft."
  • Sinudeity, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1Now if Blizzard will take some auction against the gold farmers and gold spammers. I HATE those *****. ***** you China.
  • jayscot, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1Blizzard will have 1/3 of your life AND you firstborn for a well geared 'toon.

    I canceled both my accounts just last month when I realized I couldn't catch the carrot. Silly me.
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