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401 Comments
- lordsandwich, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21What's the big deal? Most people who play MMORPGs aren't sexually active in the first place.
/cheapshot - Buelldozer, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18I'm always amazed at the strong opinions that people show when it comes to homosexuality. Really, this should be a non-issue.
If you're on Digg flaming away you need to step back and ask yourself this question: "Why do I care so much what another person is doing in their bedroom?"
I'm 34, male, heterosexual and I *truly* do not care who another person sleeps with...as long as it's not my wife. - KamikazeH20mln, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19Technically, Blizzard can do whatever they want...its their game, their servers..buried somewhere in the small print when you signed-up said they could do whatever they want.
However, it is hyprocy that they allow religious guilds, and not gay guilds. As the poster did, the best thing to do is make others aware of the issue and bitch at WOW to possibly change their policy. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+19When did being intolerant of Homosexuality become a family value?
- joeyjojo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Yes, it's hypocritical. They're basically saying that you can segregate yourself form the rest of the WoW world unless you want to segregate yourself by your sexual identity.
"why is this news? Blizzard's WoW is a game run on private servers. they can do what they please. if they feel saying GLBT in general chat is inapproiate, then so be it."
Kmart is a prvate company. Can they decide not to allow black people in their stores?
Same logic. - IvyMike, on 10/12/2007, -7/+16Why doesn't Blizzard just go further back in time and disallow inter-racial guilds?
- vodkagimlet, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11Wow--and out come all the bigots.
Hooray for intolerance, homophobia, and prejudice!! - bunki8, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9"you're gay" = fine
"i'm gay" = bad
feel like there's something wrong wtih that, though not sure what.... - bluffcityjk, on 10/12/2007, -7/+14This thread is a perfect example of all that is wrong with digg.
- silent1, on 10/12/2007, -8/+15Well I *am* gay but I can understand the point of view regarding sexuality / sexual preference not belonging in online gaming. However, consider it from the perspective of 'community'. When you have as many dickweed closed-minded bigots (as is evidenced by the mindless ***** on this forum), the chastised parties tend to gravitate toward one-another. Don't like the 'gay community'? Well you shouldn't have created one via segregation and closed-mindedness. Idiots.
- Braxo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9How does a gay friendly guild affect a player differently than any other regular guild?
- gpw11, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8"If you are objecting to this ruling, you are a moron.
These are not politics of a free nation that are being delt with. You are paying a monthly fee to live in a world that Blizzard owns. If you disagree with their policies, then quit. Nobody is forcing you to continue to be entertained by the world they have created."
You have a good point. Sadly, it's completely discredited by your opening statement as it doesn't really support it at all. Personally, I don't let Jewish people in my house, and I refuse to treat them when they come into my clinic. If you disagree with my practices you're a moron. I'm not a nation, I'm just a man standing by my values.
Yeah, that was a joke, but you get my point. You're right in the fact that Blizzard doesn't HAVE to let them form a guild, but that's not the point here, and disagreeing with their actions doesn't make you a moron in the least. - portilaj, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8WoW. Turn on the light and there's Bigots, Homophobes, and Racists all over this place. Like cockroaches...
This isn't about Blizzard's harrasment policy. Blizzard has a very good Harrasment Policy.
If there was a rule that said "Black people can't be denied access to this school", and the School Board reacted by allowing all students into the school BUT making all the Black students paint thier faces white, because otherwise there'd be problems with the intolerant white kids unable to cope with the presence of black kids.....
Well that's pretty much what's going on here. The Rule is good, it's the interpretation of it that really needs to get fixed. - JCinDE, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Would seem to me that bigots would WANT to be able to easily identify the gay-friendly guilds so they can avoid them like the plague. It'd be a mutually beneficial arrangement, no? Just to clarify, we're not talking about people who want to engage in cyber...activities...in the middle of Orgrimmar. These GLBT-frieldy guilds are really no different from Christian guilds. The purpose is to make it easy to find a guild in which you can get along with the other players.
- neophyte, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6This is what I just sent to Blizzard via their contact form here (http://www.blizzard.com/support/?id=eSupport000&action=form&eDisagree=I+Disagree) .. there may be a better place to send it..
I'm writing about the recent incident where a GLBT player was notified that forming a GLBT friendly group within WOW is prohibited to prevent "discrimination".
Blizzard's specific statement to player Sara Andrews (as posted here: http://www.innewsweekly.com/innews/?class_code=Ga&article_code=1172 ) was:
"While we appreciate and understand your point of view, we do feel that the advertisement of a 'GLBT friendly' guild is very likely to result in harassment for players that may not have existed otherwise. If you will look at our policy, you will notice the suggested penalty for violating the Sexual Orientation Harassment Policy is to 'be temporarily suspended from the game.' However, as there was clearly no malicious intent on your part, this penalty was reduced to a warning."
First of all, let me assume that by "..likely to result in harassment", you are meaning harassment of the members of the GLBT friendly guild by other players. If this is true, Blizzard is making anti-gay sentiment the responsibility of gay players. How are gay identified players CAUSING other players to harass them by being themselves? This is blaming the victim for the perpetrator's behavior.
If this is hard to wrap your brain around, consider a similar phenomenon: Women who are victims of rape are sometimes told "You should have avoided dressing 'provocatively'". If they are raped then it must be partially their fault for dressing wrong... They are blamed for the assault which was, of course, completely the choice of the perpetrator.
Second, let me say I hope that the above statement is not implying that by GLBT players creating a GLBT friendly guild they are somehow discriminating against heterosexual players. As Andrews notes, online communities everywhere (not just on Blizzards' massive MORPG) are saturated with anti-gay statements and behavior. Statements such as "you fag", "don't be such a fag", "that is so gay" are commonplace. Having a safer place where you know that your guildmates are there (in part!) because they don't engage in this insensitive and discriminatory behavior is not discrimination against heterosexuals. In fact, I believe Andrews made it clear heterosexuals were welcome, just not those who are interested in insulting gay people.
My hope is that this response from Blizzard is the result of poor training of customer service staff as opposed to Blizzard's official stance on this issue. - frem001, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6why can't we all just get along?
- DigitalOmnivore, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I can't believe how reactive people here are, and how much they assume. For everyone who thinks yelling "You're gay" won't get you reported in world of warcraft, go try it and have a friend report you. You will get suspended/banned.
Really, the anti-Christian stuff has to stop also. I don't even practice, but it's sickening how people that are complaining about the 'opression' of gays in world of warcraft take timeout to insult people based on their religion. Don't you see your own hypocrisy? - afpunk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"By homosexuals having ***** only guilds, they are discriminating against heterosexuals"
Alright, I stopped reading at this post cause I have better things to do. However, it seems as if most of the people supporting Blizzard in this seem to have the mistaken impression that this guild only allows LGBT members. If you read the article, it is quite clear it is LGBT-friendly, meaning that anyone can join the guild, as long as you're not an immature bigot *****. (Sorry, I normally keep my cool when posting arguments, but the ignorance in these comments have pissed me off to no end.) Guess what? You can have gay friends, be friendly to gays, and NOT be gay! What a novel idea....acceptance. - crimson117, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@cusoman: "why would said teenager feel the need to express his newfound sexuality in a game, a game that is rated T for Teen, meaning no sexual content? WoW is a game, not a place to explore social nuances - that's what the real world is for."
WoW is as much of a social tool as MySpace, AOL chat rooms, and website forums. Unlike shoot-em-ups and snigle player games, MMORPG's ARE places to engage in social interactions. It's what makes Everquest and SWG different from Morrowind and Star Wars: KOTOR.
Most everyone who plays the game in a guild chats with their guild out-of-character in guild and often even over VOIP like Ventrilo or Teamspeak. Players can also become very good friends through the game. People who want to feel comfortable mentioning gay aspects of their lives would surely appreciate a guild that's open and affirming towards alternative lifestyle. - kaniz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5note: being in a GLBT guild doesnt mean that you run around promoting 'hey, I'm a fag, I'm gay, I suck *****.. woo! lets have gay cyber sex. /humps your leg'
Its simply about creating an enviroment for like-minded individuals to enjoy the game together and be able to talk about their lives in the same way that everyone else does without the 'fear' of being made the subject of teasing.
Other people freely talk about their dates, their girlfriends, their husbands - it'd be nice to be able to mention my boyfriend in the same way without being the subject of teasing because of it. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7google: World of Warcraft chicks
Thongs, big boobs, more thongs, bikiniz, booth babes,
Ironic......but then, Blizzard is standing up for moral values in a game where you go around killing.
the number of idiots in this world seems to grow exponentially every day - tupuli, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7"Stonewall Champions and The Spreading Taint, two large gay guilds are currently formulating a letter they plan to submit to Blizzard requesting a more detailed explanation as to the intent of this reinterpretation and execution of the sexual harassment rule."
Does anyone else see the humor of a gay guild called the "The Spreading Taint"? - JCinDE, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Trying to keep sex out of their game? Obviously you've never PLAYED the game or at least never typed /dance. If you had, you'd know that Blizzard is not squeemish about sex and sexuality.
Blizzard's intent is not to keep sex out of their game, but to keep players from harassing one another. It's a noble goal, but unfortunately, they seem to be inconsistent in carrying out this intent, not to mention misguided.
Blizzard's argument that a GLBT-friendly guild would likely be the target of harassment is quite a stretch. It's like saying "I'm going to prevent you from arguing by forbidding you from introducing yourselves to each other." I mentioned Christian guilds because they are also likely to be the target of harassment, but received no such "protection" from harassment as the GLBT guilds received. I certainly did not mean "So ban them, too!"
As to the point about all of this not fitting in the fantasy world of the game, well yeah. But Blizzard has no problem with that apparently. Except perhaps on the role-playing servers. Out-of-game subjects like religion, politics, sex, shopping, tv, movies, etc have no place on an RP server, but they're all fair game for the regular servers.
To all of you who say "they have the right, if you don't like it don't play", I agree. I'll be watching how Blizzard handles this in the days and weeks to come and if they don't improve their handling, I'll give them a message they can't miss: Cancellation.
The point of submitting this story was not to imply that Blizzard doesn't have the right to run their game the way they want. The point of submitting this was to ensure that as many of their players as possible know about this. Digg is great for that. Whatever your stand is, whatever your feeling is about this story...don't just post it here. Send it to Blizzard.
So thanks to everyone who helped get this to the front page and thanks to all the diggers. Yes, even thanks to the bigots who contributed in their own way. You provide a helpful reminder of just how nasty people can be and why teaching tolerance and respect is so important. - SparQy, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10While I'm not gay, I am surprised by the seemingly intollerant view of the first few posters though.
- Tufriast, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6What can you expect from a piece of ***** company like Blizzard? Oppress the masses, magnify the wrong, and clarify the effect of non-reality in an immersion based MMO. The whole game is just screwed up anyway. If you are jacked in, you can guarntee the devs are jacked out when it comes down to real world issues.
Again, I reiterate: Blizzard never has, nor will care about it's consumer base on any real level other than in-game content. If they did, they'd have actually listened to 1/10th of the complaints they get about their enviornment. But they don't. Ever.
This is a whole problem with the gaming community though. Due to children playing games constantly, and being the main market we can't avoid situations like these.
Therefore, I think it's about time some company started marketing MMO's towards adults ONLY. Either that, or get rid of these damnable "Christian" Guilds as well, b/c it's a literal slap to the face for any non-Christian. And believe me, with 100 Million Chinese playing WoW - there are a lot of non-Christians out there. - Anth, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7So when clans that band together over religion and gay bash explicitly or implicitly ("thats so gay") its OK, but when GLBT (thats gay, lesbian, bi and transgender for those who dont know) folks want to band together and not have to deal with this ***** thats not OK. Good going blizzard.
- Molnies, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4That's just stupid. I don't understand why people would care if a player is GLBT or not, just let them do what they want. Blizzard just showed us how horrible narrow minded a lot of people still are.
Come on, just get along and have fun, it's a video game for crying out loud! - kaniz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5As a gay player in MMORPGs for some years - hearing the ammount of 'gay bashing' going on in guild chat and group chat could get really old at times. In many times, I simply didnt make my sexual orientation knowen to my guild - sure, other people would talk about their dates, husbands, wifes, girlfriends, make comments like 'what a fag', or 'god, thats so damn gay' - which was annoying.
If someone did something which 'seemed sort of gay', they would of been razzed for it for ages and teased about it.
I can see the appeal in having a GLBT guild - where people can talk about their lives in the same ways that Heterosexuals do and not have a fear of intollerant or homosexual guildmates lashing out against them.
If Blizzard does not change their stance on this soon - I will be canceling my WoW account. - crimson117, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Braxo: "How does a gay friendly guild affect a player differently than any other regular guild?"
Kids (and adults!) can be very mean towards people who are different than them, and ESPECIALLY teenagers who may just be coming out of the closet. For some, it's nice to have a guild that has affirmed that they will treat all their members respectfully regardless of their sexual orientation. - crimson117, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"Or... do they allow a cyber slut or BDSM guild but not a GLBT guild?"
They allow people to shout "THAT'S SO GAY" or "UR A FAG", but they don't allow "If you're gay, our guild promises not to treat you badly for it!"
So Blizzard support using sexual-slurs in a derogatory way, but not respectfully using sexual-orientation words to create a friendly atmosphere.
Sounds pretty dumb on Blizzard's part. - aristan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"Some of the posts that supported Blizzard have been deleted. Pro-gay bias on Digg.
This is what liberals and communists do, people.
Bigots."
Ummm... Communist Governments generally hate gays. Marx used anti-gay sentiment to destroy several of his political opponents. Stepping outside the bounds of 'acceptable behavior' goes against the party line and thus, as one writer put it, "Being gay is not consistent with being a good Communist."
So, Deputy Doodah... if you hate gays, you love communists. And if you love communists, you hate America.
Why do you hate America, Deputy Doodah? - tupuli, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"Gay this, gay that, blah, blah, blah. I'm heterosexual, as you might have guessed, but I don't run around telling everyone I'm hetero, putting symbolic stickers on my vehicles, or recruiting other hetero players for a stupid video game guild."
Do you feel the same way towards Christians? Many of them do tell everyone they're Christian, put symbolic stickers on their vehicles, and recruit other Christians. - modpancake, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6It's truly disturbing how many rednecks are on Digg.
- izack, on 10/12/2007, -7/+10"When did being intolerant of Homosexuality become a family value?" -ScottMaximus
when Adam and Eve were created... it's been around forever...
Mark 10:6-10
"But at the beginning of creation God 'made them male and female.' 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."
notice that it says male and female...
Amazing-because the documentary footage of that-that I have seen-shows that never happened. I've also seen interviews with God where he disutes that the first couple of books of the Old Testament were highly embellished anyway over the years. Even he's embarassed by it. - tweaQslug, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9Oh come on people, it's not the fcuking 50's. There will always be GLBT, you don't have to like it, but deal with it. I think this is ***** on Blizzard's behalf, and they will correct it. It's no more offensive than 'female' or 'republican'. Unless you're a redneck.
- gotamd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I personally don't approve of Blizzard's stance on those guilds, but I really don't see this as a problem. It's their game, not real life. Boycott it if you don't like their practices. I don't play WoW...there's nobody forcing anyone else to.
- vniow, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7I don't know which is more intolerant, Blizzard's actions of some of the posts in this thread.
- Rndm_Tngnt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"Murderers/rapists/pimps have also existed since a long time ago. Do you also consider them to be natural just because they have?"
Natural? Yes. Acceptable? Nuh-uh.
I don't have to explain the differences between a Murderer and a homosexual do I? - inajeep, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Maybe they were just trying to avoid what happened/s in this comment thread.
- Mediaright, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Notice how everyone opposed to this made the point that "I'm not gay". Interesting how there's even a tinge of discrimination in everyone. TOS or not, this is unacceptable and Blizzard should be chastised heavily.
- tsmori, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"You don't see me running around in a parade yelling I am straight do you?"
And why would you need to? Has anyone belittled you or fired you or called you names or beat the ***** out of you because you're straight? Of course not. - mdavis, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6"It's amazing all the people quoting the fairy tale bible.
But then, that bible is for the weak minded and people not quite 'with it'.
Gay, bad.
God killing, good."
You're exactly right-people are happy to discrimate if they think "God" accepts it. - Rndm_Tngnt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"I was just kidding there. I just like how people are calling everyone homophobes. If gays really wanted to enjoy a game without harrasement they would just not say they were gay. I don't mean to be a jerk but if you don't want people to make fun of you, don't give them something to make fun of you for. Simple. I don't want people to know I'm Ecuadorian and the country still has half naked indians running around.... woops =X You don't want the gays to conform but you want other people to conform to gays? In the end someone's rights are going to be taken away. Since theirs are wierder let's just keep it from them."
Tat's right! Back in the closet with you. Could you put the women back in the kitchen and the blacks back in the field on your way? Thanks. - galfridus73, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Well, I will say that I still play StarCraft from time-to-time, but Blizzard, under Vivendi, has been so totalitarian that it's not surprising this has come up.
Now, I do play FFXI and I am happy to say that most of the jerks have left that to go to WoW (and, apparently, Digg). SO, anyone who is disgusted with Blizaard and WoW, check out FFXI (a difficult for a Mac user with no PC or PS2 to use, however, since there is not a Mac version of FFXI). - Rndm_Tngnt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"What I dont agree with is Homosexuals out in the media trying to force they're lifestyles on everyone, you wanna be gay fine, be gay, but just as you dont see drug users out there screaming "accept us as we are, we were born like this" neither should they."
Drug users choose to start taking drugs. I'm failing to see the comparison. - dhughes, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3 I don't get how saying you're gay, or the guild is gay friendly, is harassing yourself and other people?! Are right-wing, heterosexual players that sensitive?
If you follow their logic wouldn't that mean all other guilds are anti-gay? Which would also violate their harassment policy.
I do agree that it shouldn't matter if you're gay or not, just make a guild, I'm sure people don't point out they are a heterosexual guild but it seems as if Blizzard is definitely biased or overly politically correct. - frem001, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7it's actually quite sad reading some of these posts. i'm sorry i'm alive.
- cusoman, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4@crimson117 - why would said teenager feel the need to express his newfound sexuality in a game, a game that is rated T for Teen, meaning no sexual content? WoW is a game, not a place to explore social nuances - that's what the real world is for.
- pintong, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I just love how "Christian guilds" were picked as the enemy of homosexual-friendly guilds.
- Rndm_Tngnt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Please...someone tell me what being gay has to do with playing a computer game in the 1st place. "
It is a game.
Some people play games.
Some people are gay.
It wouldn't be too much of a leap to posit:
Some people that play games are gay. -
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