What is Digg?108 Comments
- n00854180t, on 10/12/2007, -2/+42"Bethesda is taking steps to ensure that modders can not continue to hack into Oblivion's art archives to create partially nude figures."
I seriously hope that doesn't mean they are going to cripple modders' ability to edit/repack art resources for the game. The ***** ESRB is ridiculous. - toastgodsupreme, on 10/12/2007, -1/+29Agreed, the reason the game is so great (aside from my having spent about 40+ hours on all the side quests before starting the main), is it's potential to be mod'ed is insane.
ESRB has gone too far with this. User created content can not be used to judge a game's rating. - SoulMaster2, on 10/12/2007, -2/+28Why the hell did they give the Xbox 360 one M when you can't mod that one anyway?
- npiv, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21Its insane that the ESRB has held Bethesda accountable for the actions of thrid party modders.
By that logic, I could get them to rerate solitaire because I made a mod that shows a nude chick on the card pack.
Even from a parent's point of view this must be ridiculous. They have to be accountable for some of their childrens actions. What's the difference between a kid going to a website to get nude content for his game, or a kid going to a sex website? - wai_xing_ren, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14I was just going to post that same quote myself. This is a perfect example of the "chilling effects" brought on by this type of action. Bethesda should fight this, but they are instead becoming part of the problem.
- Kaster, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Agreed.. no one should be responsible for 3rd party content. That's just silly.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10According to the ESRB's rating method, the Sims and Sims 2 would be M.
- JoshuaWood, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10I was actually surprised that the 360 version wasn't M to begin with. I thought once you have red colored blood that's on walls, floors etc, that it was automatic to have an M. I've dealt with the ESRB before when doing EC games and getting an early childhood rating was even tough. We had an animation of a claymation shipwreck, that was "too intense" They're a bunch of no talent assclowns who are not even gamers. If you look at who makes up the review board it's clergy members and a bunch of non-gamers.
- Spudz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Do the ESRB even play these games? Or do they just rate based on the developer's submitted form and then wait for the mothers-against-everything protest letter?
- iissqrtneg1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9To summarize the article:
"We accept the rating change. But the ESRB is a bunch of morons" - jpt62089, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Pretty soon 17 and under won't even be able to see their own body parts at this rate! That would probably be considered child pornography! x.x
- Wamzlee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Way to have a spine there Bethesda.
The article wasn't even worth reading, because Bethesda isn't going to contest the ESRB rerating.
I think I am going to go and buy copies of disney movies, and then insert sex scenes in the movies with third-party software, and then force the MPAA to raise the rating from "G" to possibly "R". I think that follows the same logic as the ESRB. - sert, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8I think that's exactly what happens, I mean of course they play the games, but I think they have a big list of ridiculous technicalities and such. And even something little like this is going to require them to acknowledge that the game "contains nudity".
But I think that the "mothers-against-everything" (great term for them) should spend more time actually parenting their kids instead of trying to control the media. Their methods defy all logic, if they really cared about their children they would be spending time with them rather than protesting about such ridiculous things.
Its much easier to just turn off the TV and take away the computer than to try to control the world. And if there are any teenagers still weak-minded enough to be influenced into sex by invisible textures embedded into the game (or directly influenced negatively by any games or media by that matter), they will undoubtedly end up *****-ups anyway. - sleepwalkers, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7But you can "mod" the game by including character skins that do.
Bethesda didn't package any nudity in the game, it's all 3rd party modders that are doing it. - tonicboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@Criterion
This content does NOT ship with the game. It is not there somewhere and been "unlocked". The mod ADDS nudity. The original mesh texture has a bra. I repeat, the content on the disc DOES NOT HAVE NUDITY. - DrAegoon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6The ESRB kind of painted themselves into a corner when they re-rated Grand Theft Auto based on the Hot Coffee mod. Since the distinction between content unlocked by third party software and content added by third party software is not apparent to politicians and the media the previous decision left them with little choice.
This proves how crazy the GTA decision was. - Mooinakan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6GOOD FOR THEM.. I can't believe the ESRB can hold Bethestda responsible for something modders did entirely. If ESRB decides to force them to pull it, I say they sue the *****.
Besides, since when did boobs become a bigger offense than killing people? So, you can have a game where you slice people up and kill them, but boobs? Oh my ***** god, we can't have this! - dj_sea2005, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8"Bethesda is taking steps to ensure that modders can not continue to hack into Oblivion's art archives to create partially nude figures."
damn... i thought it was the gold and armour eating rats they didnt like :) - fohat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6This just in off the wire:
"A Congressional committee is reviewing a new law that if enacted would force all individuals under the age of 18 to wear horse blinders and walk around fully clothed at all times. An addendum to this bill is being considered that will disallow the consumption of Pudding unless the child eats a healthy portion of meat products beforehand." - DNABeast, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4That is so non-sexual it's weird. It's like watching the national Geographic channel.
- TugsMcgroin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Using this 3rd party logic, shouldn't EVERYTHING be rated mature? I mean, I can go get a movie and splice in some porno. I could get a book and hand write in some heavy petting talk. I could get a picture of the president and use MSPAINT and clip in some boobs.
- tonicboy, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9While I agree that the ESRB's re-rating of Oblivion based on mod content is ridiculous, I just want to give a little insight into why they are doing this. The ESRB is an industry-organized ratings board. What that means is that its existence is not mandated by law and is something the game development companies have voluntarily submitted to IN ORDER TO PRECLUDE POSSIBLE ATTEMPT BY THE GOVERNMENT TO IMPOSE OVERSIGHT ON THEM. Basically, it reflects the industry's own fear that if they don't do something themselves, the government will, and then they won't have control over that process. The fact that they have re-rated Oblivion shows that they are ***** their pants right now that lawmakers might POSSIBLY say "See, they said Hot Coffee was a one-time incident but this shows it is a pattern. Let's step in and take over game ratings." They are willing to undergo criticism for this if it ensures that they will not be caught up in another Hot Coffee type scandal. It's still a LAME reason, but I just wanted to point this out to people who think they are just going cuckoo. The ESRB had very good reasons for this action, regardless of how unfair it actually was.
- Mysk, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5First a very important point to make: Breasts are not evil. They're not terrible things that should be covered because they're "bad". That's as absurd and archaic as the mid-east forcing the entire woman to be covered "because they're bad". Breasts are not sexual things IMO. They're breasts. Loopty ***** doo.
That said, keep in mind that the nudity artwork did ship with the game. This is not modder created art. The modder, in effect, released a patch that unlocked the nudity that already existed in the game.
I highly doubt that the rating change would have occurred if the bare breasts were not included with the title.
Altering the software after the fact is one thing. Unlocking hidden bits is another. The hot coffee thing was a case of unlocking hidden bits, intended to be unlockable or not. Bethseda's bare breasts is another. This is the reason for the change.
Stupid? Yes. Very. The end of modding and the start of retroactively changing the rating of every game released that has had nude art _created_ by users? No. - Jakesterama, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6I was playing Sponge Bob - Battle for Bikini Bottom, and I taped a page from Playboy on my TV, and BAM, boobies in a Sponge Bob game. I DEMAND that this game be re-rated 'AO'!
- anonatron, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4We are coming to the point with the ESRB where they are basing a rating on what a user can possibly do with the software. This is like re-rating "Snow White" to "R" because websites feature the characters in sexual positions.
- Shambler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The ESRB gives the ratings, not the developers. The developers submit applications to the ESRB in order to receive a rating.
I agree that the ESRB (not the developers) should have a label/warning that alerts people that the "Game Experience May Change With Modifications," and I think this is a good compromise to the situation. - aresef, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4The developer submits a form, several average New York parents see clips of the game's worst bits, then they assign ratings.
- salmonmoose, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2You possibly need a lesson in anatomy, that's NOT what women look like under their clothes.
- WDot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Anybody remember Jedi Outcast? That one had a cheat to allow you to slice people up into little pieces with a lightsaber instead of simply killing them. No mod, it was IN GAME, just a cheat. Yet that one maintained a Teen rating. It's not like this was a covered up tidbit of information, every cheat site had it. Plus people were able to make a "Blood Patch" to add that area of realism that Outcast lacked. Why don't we go back and give that an M rating too?
- Rndm_Tngnt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I think we're all missing the point. Those breasts are the single (double?) creepiest thing(s) I've seen in a while.
...They're just so... static.
*shudder* - CognitiveRes, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2By this line of reasoning, a guy splicing porn into a copy of Bambi he bought changes the rating of every copy of Bambi?
- doncarajo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2In Australia, Oblivion has always been rated M. And it wouldn't have been due to any nipples either (we often get uncensored, full frontal nudity on prime time shows on TV anyway).
- Poco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2That's the american way.
Even with all the porn created and watched in the US, it is one of the most conservative countries I have been to.
I'm glad to be Canadian where I can see boobies any night of week on "over the air" TV. - ImperatorTerrae, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Why doesn't Bethesda just add a "Gaming Experience May change during Mod-Downloading" message when you start up the game? Games playable online include the letters F,U,C, and K in the list of characters you can type in game, but they arent getting an M-rating for that. Warcraft 3 has tons of inappropriate maps you can download perhaps unwillingly, Blizzard didn't give it a M rating.
- tharealmegaman, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4No, they packaged the nudity. The same as the whole "hot coffee" incident. Modders just released the patch to enable it. You can search for the article on digg.
- Demarche, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Consider what would happen if Bethsada challenged the decision. Suddenly people would realize that games are mod-able, that a gaming experience can change based on these third-party mods, and that a rating, gasp, only applies to official content. Now you'd like to think that common sense would prevail and that people would simply learn to redefine what a ESRB rating means, but do you honestly think that would happen? No, more likely people would, in a fit of boobie-induced panic, impose contrived restrictions to limit game owner’s ability to modify their software in order to "ensure" that the game experience was always consistent. Perhaps it's best to just bite our tongue and let this slide so as to not make it an issue; let the ignorant continue to think they know how things work.
After writing that, it makes me wonder how the ESRB can give a Teen rating to MMOs along with an "Online gaming experience may vary" disclaimer, but freak out over this. The mind boggles. - bluemech, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3You can slaughter thousands for people and animals, steal millions of gold in items, but seeing a little nipple is totally unnacceptable! Last I recalled, it is advisable to in fact, let your child not only see nipples at birth, but to suckle them as well. ***** the ESRB.
- Norseman, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Definitely. Here's what I propose: We systematically mod every single game to include nudity. Every last one, even solitaire. Maybe the windows calculator too. As we do this, we submit it to the ESRB, and to whoever can rate windows because of a modded calculator. Thus, either every game would have to have the M rating, or the ESRB, and ***** morons in general, would need to realize the absurdity of their positions.
- Shambler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@Criterion:
Criterion wrote:
"The bra is a *seperate* mesh. The hack removes it. The upper body is a nude texture. It IS there, and it is unlockable."
I guess we should have warnings on humans too, because they can take their shirts and pants off.
The point is that it requires modification to access that. It's ridiculous that the rating should be affected because you can take their clothes off using modifications.
By that logic, I guess if I develop a mod for FEAR or Quake, and I make it so people can have sex in it, the game should be rated Adults Only instead of Mature? The ability to do so is provided!
I think we need to be careful not to take the "Hot Coffee Mod" precedent too far. - tharealmegaman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3No one's analogies hold water because the nudity was -included- in the game.
Link:
http://www.gamernode.com/article/874
The modders simply "took the underwear off." They did not make nude skins. - zumpiez, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I've got some terrain texture packages that really add a lot to the visuals. I hope they aren't affected by whatever steps they take to stop the nude mods.
- eclipseCDN, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Bethesda doesn't strike me as a company that would abuse the system like this. It's a freaking MOD, the game doesn't deserve an M.
- blackwolverine, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Hmm did anyone as a kid ever see a barbie doll. By the same token these should be given a Mature rating because there clothes are fully removeable...we should realise that only creeps and Tech Freaks would learn to make this mod happen. They are a sick sad part of existance. IF they need so desperately to see some breasts they should just stop wasting everyones time and go to a strip joint already
- wedgea18, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2No one seems to understand this... the game "contains nudity". The only thing is that the genitalia are COVERED. But they ARE in the game. Therefore, it's not user-ADDED content that is in question... it's simply the fact that a simple modification to the game can unlock this offensive material. Kind of like a nude-code if you will. The user may have uncovered it... but it's Bethesda's fault that it is there in the first place!
- OneEye, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It's ***** cartoon titties for god's sake. And they aren't even on the disk that you buy. ESRB needs to find some actual work to do.
- Poco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Don't forget us Canadians! We love boobies.
- Rndm_Tngnt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Breasts != Genitals.
- Criterion, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3tonicboy wrote:
"This content does NOT ship with the game. It is not there somewhere and been "unlocked". The mod ADDS nudity. The original mesh texture has a bra. I repeat, the content on the disc DOES NOT HAVE NUDITY."
Where are you getting your information? The bra is a *seperate* mesh. The hack removes it. The upper body is a nude texture. It IS there, and it is unlockable. If it were third party content, and somebody went to the effort to create a nude upper body texture, don't you think they'd take the extra few minutes to do a lower body texture to achieve godlike status? Wonder why that hasn't happened? Because when they removed the panties mesh there was no texture underneath. This is not created by modders, it is in the meshes.bsa file. Unpack it yourself and see. Look at the names of the files. Any of them have the word "nude" in them? Yeah, that's right. That's the texture in question. All the mod does is give you an already unpacked version of it in the correct directory structure for the game to use. Good grief. The guy who made the mod says, and I quote "In the process of trying to create a nude skin for Oblivion, I found Bethesda had already done all the work for me." That kinda says it all as far as I'm concerned, but if you still want to be stubborn about it, here is where you can go to enlighten yourself...
http://www.oblivionsource.com/?page=modforge&op=viewproject&project_id=191
Why is it so unbelievable to people that this is the way it is when Daggerfall (The Elder Scrolls 2) had nudes and all you had to do was remove the shirt, no mod involved? - KriLL3.2™, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I'm gonna change all textures in all games I own, texture files in games are normal image formats in containers etc, easily openable using certain tools...
I'm gonna take screens and send em all to ESRB and demand to make em all "M" rated. - akira117, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Video of the patch that I have recorded:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5142082120375948319&q=oblivion+patch&pl=true -
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