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140 Comments
- NielsGamer, on 10/12/2007, -3/+57Because a game like Ghost Recon 3 on the 360 has sick graphics effects and pixel/vertex shaders on every polygon in the scene, tuned for 720p performance. Rendering the same game on 1080p with the same GPU would require reducing polygon counts and shaders to maintain a steady framerate, as such forfeiting any advantage you'd get from increasing resolution. The game would look slightly sharper and much uglier.
The fact that my 3 year old laptop can run Quake 3 Arena at 1600x1200 at 90fps with all settings tuned to the top is no argument: the game simply didn't have enough features to tax modern GPU's. - longofest, on 10/12/2007, -13/+55on a first-name basis with the MS execs, are we???
- merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -3/+41Hell, you could probably play pacman in 1080p on a 486/33.
It's not a question of running *any* game at 1080p, it's a question of running a game with all the latest bells and whistles at 1080p. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -27/+52This is why MS sucks so much, they have no imagination - worse, they dont even recognize the reality that 1080p is actually behind most modern PC systems today. I've played DOOM3, Quake 4, Halo and Stubs the Zombie, Call of Duty, WoW, etc... at higher rezzes than that on a freaking Macintosh for pete's sake.
Knock Knock, hello? McFly? Anybody Home? - Kebie, on 10/12/2007, -2/+27I doubt the major portion of the market will even have support of 1080p on their TV's at the end of the 360/PS3 life cycle (in 5 years). The majority of HDTV's coming out even today only support 720p, only some of the really high end ones have 1080p support.
- blueorder, on 10/12/2007, -3/+26incognegro
Actually, it's "640K of RAM" but anyway, that quote has been wrongly attribute to Bill Gates.
QUESTION: "I read in a newspaper that in l981 you said '640K of memory should be enough for anybody.' What did you mean when you said this?"
ANSWER: "I've said some stupid things and some wrong things, but not that. No one involved in computers would ever say that a certain amount of memory is enough for all time."
"Meanwhile, I keep bumping into that silly quotation attributed to me that says 640K of memory is enough. There's never a citation; the quotation just floats like a rumor, repeated again and again." - scrytch, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21OK...
1. The people here that are saying "this is BS - I am playing at better than 1080p now" - he is NOT talking about computers connected to monitors - he is talking about games consoles connected to a TV - limited by hardware standards available today (see 3b below).
2. The people that are saying "He'll eat his words when we run at resolution in blah blah" - no he won't - he is talking about technology today - he's not saying that we will never be able to do it with future hardware - and I don't class the PS3 in the "future hardware" bracket - it is a product of today coming out with support for the hardware standards of today (see 3b below).
3. The people that are saying "It's just because the 360 can't do it blah blah" - It doesn't matter whether a the PS3 can actually do the resolution or not, or that the 360 can't... the problem comes down to the content and the industry hardware support.
(a) Content - games that do 1080p are going to look crisp, but the "wow factor" will be minimal... as others have stated, the grunt that goes into the higher resolution could have been used elsewhere in the game.
(b) Industry Hardware Support - Very few TV's have 1080p support, and even the ones that do only support 1080p/24 and 1080p/30 - THERE IS NO STANDARD for 1080p/60, and today's HDMI most probably won't even be able to carry the signal! So go ahead and enjoy a nice progressive image on your TV running at 30 frames per second... I'd rather a PS3 or 360 game running at 720p 60 frames per second any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.
Now I am not saying 1080p is useless, indeed 1080p movies will look spectacular on a good display I am sure...
Oh - but we were talking about games weren't we?
Regards,
Shane. - brasilcaps, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20Yeah, and I can play Pong in 9000p also.
- defectDS, on 10/12/2007, -3/+18Krazy Ken also said I would have to work overtime to purchase his heaven-in-a-box, the glorious PS3.
Thanks Sony! - eadnams, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16rebrad: How is it interlaced? Computers haven't had/needed interlaced displays for almost 10 years. Thats why 60 fps is precieved as smooth, not 30... 60p is equal to 30i in preception of motion.
- xodex, on 10/12/2007, -10/+22Blu-Ray is a mistake, HD-DVD is also a mistake. The world should have waited for better formats.
- isewise, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12I think the 1080p output is more for Blu-Ray movies than for games. But I think a developer could maybe pull off Geometry Wars in 1080p, that would be sweet.
- Cerberus047, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13They also said the Ps2 would have toy story graphics....and the ps3 would be out by spring....
- loker269, on 10/12/2007, -7/+17incognegro.....the statement was 640K and it was not something Billy G. said.....there are two variants of that statement and both are falsely attributed to Gates.....
- ZHmike, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13Whether or not they can make up those losses is yet to be seen. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they're still taking losses on the 360. The potential to make up those losses is there for sure, but it is far from certain
- jesusphreak, on 10/12/2007, -8/+18Yeah, you are right..
I mean, they didn't take losses on the Xbox for 5 years knowing that they could make up for it the future.
Wait...I believe they did. - All4not, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14A game like Doom 3 probably would not play (60 fps at minimum) with everything on it's highest setting @ 1920x1080. A game as old as UT probably would play fine at that resolution, because UT came out in `99 and it doesn't have the 'eye candy' of the newest generation of games.
I've tried to run a 1080p on a Athlon 64 3200 with a GF 6800 and it chugs on that. 1080i and lower runs fine. I couldn't imagine actually trying to real-time render @ that resolution, even on a FX-60 w/SLI.
In the future it is a given that they will make 1080p games, once the hardware catches up. - jesusphreak, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12zhmike, that's not my point.
Xipher's original statement was: "MS has never seemed to think in the long term, only what's available now."
Being willing to take losses on a console for 5 years in order to position yourself in the future is obvious evidence against that statement. - joshduck, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10From what I can see the Xbox 360 is capable of it, but developers are choosing not to implement it. That makes sense to me, because there is a trade of in terms of "quantity over quality" in terms of pixels.
- RhinoSS, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10It's becoming more apparent that Nintendo may have been correct in their approach in regards to HD gaming on the Revolution. They have stated from the beginning that the Revolution won't support 1080p. It's now very intesting seeing the same talk coming from Microsoft with their latest and greatest console.
I, for one, am actually very interested in seeing how this plays out. - futurekill, on 10/12/2007, -8/+16Same here...WoW and DOOM3 on my G5 with an Apple 23" Display. All at max res...works great...
- pegisys, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9the point was not to say that current games or future games with simple graphics can't do 1080P but the the best looking game from this generation is not going to be at 1080P.
It's just like when a new PC game comes out that really pushes the hardware you have to lower the res to turn up the eye candy, and most developers(even PS3's) are targeting 720P because it's a good balance - furtwan1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9if you RTFA it said:
"I think 1080p, just to address that directly, will be basically impossible. I think if you talk to any developer they will tell you that they will not have a performing game at 1080p."
Obviously he is saying that with todays hardware the perf isn't good enough to use it. I'm sure he's refering to the PS3's likely inability to actually use the resolution Sony's been toting. - rebrad, on 10/12/2007, -6/+14Maybe that's why Sony said that they will only deliver 720P on the first release of the PS3.
- crazyfan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11May I ask, who even has a TV that has true 1080p resolution instead of the usual 1080i monitors that downcoverts it to 720p?
Most monitors and projections dont allow for true 1080p, plus depending on how far you are from the actual screen, it makes no difference in quality. - swax, on 10/12/2007, -6/+14whats the point of going to higher resolutions, on a tv especially. all they do is lose processing power that could be used for more immersive and graphically detailed enviroments. a cube at 480 doesnt look different from a cube at 1080, especially on a tv you sit a meter away from.
why do we assume high resolution is better? you want to know what good graphics look like turn on any tv channel, real life, thats what good graphics look like. game systems arent even at that point yet, so why are we bumping up the resolution on it? - supersteve, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11Microsoft is right, but only because their XBOX 360 can't support it.
My car can't float, so this meens cars will never float. But there are cars that float... and buses too.
see my point - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12Sony should ship out some 1080p rootkits, stat!
- TigerClaw, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Its possible for PC gaming to run at 1080p with those new PC with quad SLI.
- trogdor282, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6absolutely incorrect. an interlaced video has half the temporal detail. plus the jaggies just plain look ugly. thats why they broadcast sports in 720p.
- drbroccoli, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I'm content with Unreal Tourny at 800x600....
- futoranime, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8http://www.majornelson.com/2006/02/19/show-163-the-one-about-hdtv/
I would probably listen to this podcast. Major Nelson talks to the head of HDTV for Microsoft. He tells you why it won't work. I can see why Sony wants 1080p for the movies, but not gaming.
http://www.gameaddicthotline.com - brasilcaps, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8How is it that in 3-4 years that there's NO REASON why every game couldnt be 1080p? Hey, Xbox 1 supports 1080i, but how many games supported it? How many GOOD games with great graphics supported it? I'm sure we can put Robotron in 1080p, but something like the KillZone demo in 1080p? I won't bet on it.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5You do. If you're talking about enhancing the immersion, you need more realism. Your brain is trained to look for cues that say, "this is not real." Think about a CGI human who lacks semi-translucent skin to add that subtle affect of the water/liquids/muscles/bones beneath. It just doesn't look real because our eyes and brain know what to look for. As graphics improve, so does immersion.
- GuyNextDoor, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Yeah, and WOW is the absolute standard for AMAZING graphics too...
:RollsEyes: - drizek, on 10/12/2007, -9/+14the 360 physically cant output to 1080p, thats why MS is bitter and bitching about the ps3.
- incognegro, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9Ah, sorry...was just trying to infuse some humor into the situation. Failed miserably.
- loker269, on 10/12/2007, -0/+51080p gaming is not impossible....in fact it has been done on pc games quite a lot.....also to those saying the PS3 will be 1080p please forgive me if I am wrong but I swear sony said it would actually be 720p....
- irate, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Yes, it is certainly possible to game at greater than 1080p resolutions with a x850 or 6800GT
- hasbeen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Perhaps using the term 'impossible' was a poor choice, especially from someone in that position.
In any case, I don't really get what the big deal is. While I'm no expert on the technical side of this, from a business perspective it makes sense that MS didn't focus on supporting 1080p. From reading this and some of the comments I understand that most hardware, or perhaps basically all hardware right now, don't support 'true' 1080p, and probably won't for several years. Even then, while the hardware becomes available, most people will not buy it immediately. Just look at how many people today have HDTVs.
So by the time 1080p does become mainstream, Xbox3 will appear. Sounds like a good plan to me. - jpesicka2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4impossible for microsoft, c'mon microsoft i don't care about 1080p gaming, i mean, hardly any tv's even support it
- staticten, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6and the PS3's inability to actually deliver what they say it can.......................
Please!!!!!!!!!!! - Kinsbane, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Yeah, 1080i in that photograph mode sure is useful.
- clevershark, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3*Being willing to take losses on a console for 5 years in order to position yourself in the future is obvious evidence against that statement.*
The point of the Xbox was never to make money on the console, but to recoup the cost in game sales and especially to cost Sony money. - da_bradler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3it's a basis title, it's a good article just talking about what they think is most possible, he said would "basicly" be impossible for game deveolpers to aim for and added there is going to be a sweet spot in HD and they think 740p-1080i is that sweet spot due to the t.v's and other factors,
- dutter, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Nethack looks just fine at 1080p. What's the problem here? :-)
- quamb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3looks like i've been 'undug' by those who do own such hd tv's. bizarre.
- samdu, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Me.
- jerwood, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3HDMI can support 1080p/60.
It's not too surprising, as you can run 1920/1200 at 60 Hz on plain old DVI-D, and HDMI is basically digital audio + DVI-D. - munboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Never say never.
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