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Michael Robertson calls out Zune as biggest flop of 2007

engadget.com — "At first glance the features seem compelling but my prediction is it will be the biggest flop of 2007 with less than 50,000 units sold worldwide." Also, says Robertson, "I've been looking for a good verb to describe losing all of your music to DRM because it's increasingly common and I think I have one: zune."

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  • havocwon, on 10/12/2007, -36/+3This is a dupe, check literally two stories down from this one. I'm assuming both sumitters were so close in time it was still new. Just a heads up.
    • 23r17i05o42n, on 10/12/2007, -45/+14It's brown! It's chunky! It's *****!
    • defectDS, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10I noticed that the brown version has a strange green hue on the edges. Is that just the press images or is it really there? The black also has a slight cyan hue on the edges, just like the Aero windows have on the left and bottom. Please tell me it was just the camera...
    • zybch, on 10/12/2007, -19/+9Apparently the black version has this greenish tinge too.
      I the translucency looks quite interesting. Much more so than the solid color of the you-know-what-pod.
      I think that a translucent iPod would sell pretty well, pity that Jobby boy refuses to let anything like that be released.
    • rhesuspieces00, on 10/12/2007, -23/+14well, if you want to make your product look like a slimy turd, then it has to have that mucous-y sheen to it. classy.
    • smpdigital, on 10/12/2007, -13/+3Translucent gadgets are so 1997
    • D14BL0, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3Michael Robertson can see into next year, but the subject everybody here is worried about is the Zune? Priorities, people!
    • TheWorm, on 10/12/2007, -17/+8It's just one of those things like, why on earth would you get a bulky poorly thought out Zune when you could get a sleek, cool iPod that does all the same stuff. Microsoft is too late into the game. When 80% of the market is iPod there aren't many people who are willing and want to switch.
    • dioscaido, on 10/12/2007, -6/+24@TheWorm: The Zune has the same functionality as the iPod + bigger screen + FM tuner + WiFi, for the same price. Seems like a pretty reasonable competitor to me. For people worried about DRM, they should look closely at their iPods...
    • KMartSheriff, on 10/12/2007, -13/+4@dioscaido


      Who the eff wants an FM player? That's why I got an iPod is because I hate the radio.
    • D14BL0, on 10/12/2007, -12/+3@dioscaido
      Yes, but will it have the same massive amounts of third-party support like the iPod? Will it have the same ultra user-friendly interface as the iPod (knowing M$, that's a definite "no")? Will it have the same trendy factor?

      Probably not.
    • TheWorm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@ dioscaido,
      1) it's wifi is sharing songs with certain people. Useless when nobody is going to buy one
      2) The screen is bigger, but the resolution is the same
      3) Does anyone actually care about an FM tuner?
  • aaronnohalo, on 10/12/2007, -10/+58Who is Micael Robertson?
    • leomyhero, on 10/12/2007, -16/+13"Who is Michael Robertson?"

      http://www.engadget.com/2005/09/12/the-engadget-interview-michael-robertson-ceo-of-sipphone/
    • manfrin, on 10/12/2007, -22/+75Again, who is Michael Robertson?

      To answer my own question, he's no one. Why should we care if he calls a multi-billion, cross-conglomerate product a flop? We shouldn't, his product is a knockoff of a knockoff, and his business will go nowhere.
    • kyriakos, on 10/12/2007, -17/+40and who cares what he says?
    • zybch, on 10/12/2007, -37/+9Yeah. I have never ever heard of this guy, but I HAVE heard of the Zune and will be getting one when they come out based on its features.
    • Broadband, on 10/12/2007, -12/+38I seriously hope you're being sarcastic. You're buying a zune for the features? Well I guess you have a point. All the music I bought from Napster and Yahoo! Music is getting pretty worn and it only makes sense to re-purchase it so you can play it on the zune. I'm sure you'll run into tons of people with a zune to use the restrictive music sharing feature with.

      I hate Apple's FairPlay too, but atleast every iPod can play songs I've purchased from the store and I can rest assured the 6G iPod will play nice as well. I'm sure you can't wait for the Zune 2 which will throw out the old and busted with their new DRMx1000 requiring you to repurchase your music collection again.

      They might as well call the Zune's DRM: "Doesn't Play Well With Others" or even "Doesn't Play at All"
    • warmcat, on 10/12/2007, -7/+39Michael Robertson founded MP3.COM back in the day of the original Napster. His opinion on Zune would be relevant and interesting then... a lot more interesting and relevant than the ton of zuneblog PR spam from people trying to cash in on the hype.

      The Zune-boosters should look to the history of Dell, another biggie company trying to storm up Apple's hill... but since they never heard of Robertson I guess history is not their strong point.

      ''Dell ditches DJ Ditty
      August 23, 2006 4:39 PM PDT
      Dell has officially pulled out of the MP3 player market. Its last device in that category, the low-end flash-based DJ Ditty, got deleted from the company's playlist last week. ''

      http://news.com.com/2061-10801_3-6108920.html

      ''tuesday, august 22nd
      Dell withdraws from MP3 player market

      Dell has apparently conceded defeat in the MP3 player market, as reports indicate that the company is no longer selling any of its MP3 players and has removed most referencs to its DJ Ditty MP3 player from the Dell website. Electronista notes that the Texas-based Dell originally entered the digital audio player market in late 2003 to capitalize on the rapidly expanding popularity of Apple's iPod; however, despite attempts to compete with Apple on features and price, Dell has consistently struggled to find significant marketshare. ...''

      http://www.macnn.com/articles/06/08/22/dell.concedes.defeat.again/

      ''While Dell discontinued their Pocket Digital Jukebox players sometime in late December, early January period, over a month passed before anyone noticed and it became "news". This shows just how much interest and demand there was in these
      products. ''

      http://news.softpedia.com/news/Dell-MP3-Players-Discontinued-Over-A-Month-Ago-Nobody-Notices-17603.shtml
    • warmcat, on 10/12/2007, -18/+1Michael Robertson founded MP3.COM back in the day of the original Napster. His opinion on Zune would be relevant and interesting then... a lot more interesting and relevant than the ton of zuneblog PR spam from people trying to cash in on the hype.

      The Zune-boosters should look to the history of Dell, another biggie company trying to storm up Apple's hill... but since they never heard of Robertson I guess history is not their strong point.

      ''Dell ditches DJ Ditty
      August 23, 2006 4:39 PM PDT
      Dell has officially pulled out of the MP3 player market. Its last device in that category, the low-end flash-based DJ Ditty, got deleted from the company's playlist last week. ''

      http://news.com.com/2061-10801_3-6108920.html

      ''tuesday, august 22nd
      Dell withdraws from MP3 player market

      Dell has apparently conceded defeat in the MP3 player market, as reports indicate that the company is no longer selling any of its MP3 players and has removed most referencs to its DJ Ditty MP3 player from the Dell website. Electronista notes that the Texas-based Dell originally entered the digital audio player market in late 2003 to capitalize on the rapidly expanding popularity of Apple's iPod; however, despite attempts to compete with Apple on features and price, Dell has consistently struggled to find significant marketshare. ...''

      http://www.macnn.com/articles/06/08/22/dell.concedes.defeat.again/


      http://news.softpedia.com/news/Dell-MP3-Players-Discontinued-Over-A-Month-Ago-Nobody-Notices-17603.shtml
    • berwiki, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3If you actually RTFA you will find out.
    • ClassicJBC, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I don't blame non-tech people for buying music with iTunes, Napster, etc. and perhaps not being able to circumvent the DRM. However, I think most digg users do and should know better. Don't blame MS for trying to get in the game with the Zune. It's not their fault iPod users have locked themselves into Apple's crappy DRM. It's not their fault users of other services have locked themselves to other DRM. The lesson here, to me, is either don't use DRMed media or else be prepared to be locked into a single brand of device for life.
    • uownedge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@Tensenki;
      What? The Zune does use DRM. Their DRM setup is far worse than what Apple's doing.

      Believe it or not, these companies do have at least some room to work with when it comes to DRM. Through iTunes, you can re-download each song purchased once. So in the case of a hardware failure in which you lose all of your music, you are able to download your library again. With Microsoft? Good luck. So In a way, it's not completely incorrect to blame Microsoft for the ridiculous restraints, however, it would be ridiculous to say that the product will be a flop. Personally, I don't expect it to sell well. It's really too late in the portable multimedia device game for MS to be entering.

      But of course, in the grand scheme of things, it is infact the RIAA and MPAA who are to blame for the ridiculous DRM restrictions. Microsoft and Apple are just following the rules. You really can't put too much blame on either of them and have any idea what you are talking about.
  • coryp420, on 10/12/2007, -8/+68If Hillary Duff can sell over 1,000,000 albums, i'm sure Microsoft can squeeze out more than 50,000 Zunes...
    • jejones, on 10/12/2007, -2/+70Given the brown Zunes, I _really_ wish you hadn't talked about squeezing them out. :(
    • Ramble, on 10/12/2007, -23/+3Hilary Duff is brilliant.
    • mexter, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4Who is Hillary Duff?
  • borninda818, on 10/12/2007, -24/+9The reason it will flop is because all people either consciously or unconsciously hate microsoft.
    • Murdats, on 10/12/2007, -3/+23and yet sony is loved by all, isnt it funny

      lets just compare them in the last few years
      gates-given much to charity
      sony-rootkits, suing everyone they can, using drm to strongarm apple into complying with its wishes...and so on
    • StevoCJ, on 10/12/2007, -21/+8But Gates isn't Microsoft.

      I think he views himself as some sort of Robin Hood character, but how many of his billions has he given to charity?

      I'm not keen on Sony, but have no love at all for Microsoft.
    • jono1, on 10/12/2007, -3/+24"how many of his billions has he given to charity?"
      The answer to that is, well, more than any other single human being in history.

      "In 2000, Gates founded the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, a charitable organization, with his wife. The foundation's grants have provided funds for college scholarships for under-represented minorities, AIDS prevention, diseases prevalent in third world countries, and other causes. In 2000, the Gates Foundation endowed the University of Cambridge with $210 million for the Gates Cambridge Scholarships. The Foundation has also pledged over $7 billion to its various causes, including $1 billion to the United Negro College Fund; and as of 2005, had an estimated endowment of $29.0 billion. He has spent about a third of his lifetime income on charity."
      (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates)
    • MateyO, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8@Murdats:

      I dunno about that. I've pretty well pledged to never buy another Sony product again. From someone who's purchased a Laptop, two monitors, a Receiver, a ton of speakers, walkmen, etc...it's a non trivial amount of money I'll never send them due to their bungling and mistreatment of their customers.
    • ray901, on 10/12/2007, -9/+3@Jono1
      ""how many of his billions has he given to charity?"
      The answer to that is, well, more than any other single human being in history."

      Yes, so many people think that bigger is better. There are a lot of people in the world that dedicate their whole lives to help others - many donate almost all their expendable income to others. But that's not what matters to you is it? - you only care about who gave the most (because that's what makes tham a better person hey!), it is so easy to buy your praise and adoration.

      If you answered the original question in percentages of income you would see just how compasionate Gates is compared with other less mortals that work down at your local soup kitchen.

    • jono1, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13Perhaps if you read the last line of the wikipedia quote I so thoughtfully included, you'd have an answer to that question. How many people do you know can say that they've donated a third of the money they've earned in their entire lives to charity? Not many I'll wager.

      And as for praise and adoration, well, Steve Jobs gets adored by his multitude of Apple fanatics simply for heading a company with some pretty products, and to my knowledge (correct me if I'm wrong) he hasn't done nearly as much for those less fortunate. Compared to that, in terms of being a compassionate human being, Bill Gates deserves a lot more praise than he gets.
    • ray901, on 10/12/2007, -10/+0@Jono1
      "Perhaps if you read the last line of the wikipedia quote I so thoughtfully included, you'd have an answer to that question."
      Yes I too always believe wiki entries on rich famous people.

      "How many people do you know can say that they've donated a third of the money they've earned in their entire lives to charity? Not many I'll wager."
      Yes, you're right - I do not know that many, I also don't know Bill gates. Now if you mean - how many people have I heard of then the answer is many. Some people even dedicate their LIVES to others not just a portion of their salary.

      The original question was
      "how many of his billions has he given to charity?"
      You answer was:
      "The answer to that is, well, more than any other single human being in history."

      Which indicates your values and what is more important to you. I was just trying to get you to consider that, when it comes to charity, there are others that are maybe more deserving of your praise and adoration.
    • mrlost117, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2ray you look really ***** retarded right now, and though I know you think you have one, in actuallity, you have no arguement.

      stfu
    • jono1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"I was just trying to get you to consider that, when it comes to charity, there are others that are maybe more deserving of your praise and adoration."
      OK, I see that, and I apologise for the impolite way in which I replied. However, understand this. I volunteer often with the Salvation Army and other charitable organisations, and the way I see it, those who give a lot of money help them do their work that much better. Yes, volunteers are always appreciated but when it comes down to it the cold hard cash is what runs the shelters for victims of domestic violence, helps feed farming families devastated by drought, and gets kids off the streets, not to mention the more global aspects of these charities.
  • mrASSMAN, on 10/12/2007, -3/+40Wow.. hasn't even been released yet and we're already calling it a flop..
    • sakuraz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+36Just like PS3.
    • davidlkirby, on 10/12/2007, -7/+17Yeah? Well just wait until I release my Zunecast!
    • klang, on 10/12/2007, -7/+51st generation Zune vs. 5th generation iPod .. same price ... is the choice really that difficult?
    • Sarki, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1@klang

      Yes because older is necessarily better! See: Netscape (*****), Winamp (old and crusty), UNIX (this is your home OS, right?), Atari (Pong!), Firewire.
    • weareglass, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I think the cogent argument isn't that the iPod has advantages simply because it's older, but it has advantages because the Zune is at the moment half-baked. No podcast (or whatever you call it) support, no video, no Zune Store over wi-fi, no wi-fi syncing, etc. And I think in the case of each of these, they're not features MS doesn't want to put in the Zune, they're features they've stated they will include in future versions of the Zune.

      So the question really should be, why buy an early version of the Zune that is half-baked when future Zunes will be far more fully-featured, and when iPods have many of these features here and now?
  • cnowacek, on 10/12/2007, -12/+11It's not because they hate microsoft, It's because they hate DRM music or they secretly long for an ipod.
    • estvir, on 10/12/2007, -14/+12If they had DRM music why don't they say that the iPod will be a flop ? Exactly.
  • Shorties, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15The only reason I am not buying a Zune at launch is because there is no 80GB version, I really want one, but I need more then 30GBs of space.
  • badtz, on 10/12/2007, -22/+12it won't sell because it's called ZUNE. platinum award winner for worst name of the year!
    • ImTheDarkcyde, on 10/12/2007, -8/+22you act as if Wii is a better name, but we're all going to buy one of those, aren't we?

      Its the features, not the name.
    • estvir, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12You're right badtz, I guess that's why; Amazon an online store failed, Yahoo who provides various online services failed, iPod which is an MP3 player, not an 'i' or 'pod,' failed, Apple, a computer company failed..

      I [and others] could go on forever for companies/products which seem to have ridiculous names that have NOT failed.
  • DrScript, on 10/12/2007, -22/+5lol no one wants to get something named zune even microzune would be better :) shoot they should have left it nameless
    • zybch, on 10/12/2007, -13/+19So you think that "iPod" was a better name, or are you just one of the stupid apple fanboys that attacks everything MS does regardless of the actual product?
      Rewind back 5 years (or however long the pod has been out) and its even worse than zune.
    • klang, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2"Rewind back 5 years (or however long the pod has been out) and its even worse than zune."

      1 Generation iPod vs. a 1 Generation Zune .. yes, the Zune has better features .. but it IS 5 years later, and Zune has to compete, not with what Apple has on the marked NOW, but what Apple will have on the marked within the next 3-4 months..

      At the same price, the choice is not that difficult ..
    • greekgoat91, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2yes the choice is not that difficult, you can get the device that has a larger screen, a beautiful UI, and Wifi as well as WMV and WMA support. or you can get the device that everyone has. So it's your choice, be unique and get the better product, or jump on the Apple band wagon and get what everyone else has.
    • weareglass, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Going back in time to compare these players is idiocy. When a new automaker comes out with their first car, would you comapre their car to a Ford Model T or a new Ford Taurus?
  • ryanownsu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+27cant be as bad as the n-gage :P
  • mouthster, on 10/12/2007, -2/+25Listen to the man, he knows a thing or two about flops.

  • drum_bum, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8link to the actual post:

    http://www.michaelrobertson.com/archive.php?minute_id=219
  • eclectro, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13"Hey, my music got zuned!!"

    works for me.
  • robbiedo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14The Zune will not be a raging success in the short term for one reason. It isn't cool. As long as the iPod is cool, and Apple is cool, it has difficulties. It will have to be a brand built for the longe term. Microsoft realizes this, and if it is a market they want to build, they will stay in it for the long term. Remember how powerful the Palm Corp was? Remember how the X-ox was initially dismissed. I remember the first Win CE device, they were awful.

    No, I am not a Microsoft fanboy, I am just trying to look at what Microsoft's goal with this device are, and it's long term plans. They are willing to sink huge amounts of money into this, and it is something to watch.

    • snownskate, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Exactly. MS has already stated they expect to not turn a profit on the device itself for some time....just look at the XBOX, they lost money on the console sales for years but made it up on the software....or in this case digital music sales.
      Throwing in one more "....." for good measure
  • andyeb, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8They'd sell more if they actually went to market with the name "iPod Killer".
  • hmcook87, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6i just feel that the zune is ugly... i dont really care who makes it, but i know that I wouldnt use the wifi feature. I own an ipod, but apple dosent have an itunes store in new zealand, so i dont have any fairplay drm'ed music, so im pretty nutural about the whole Apple vs MS thing. I like my ipod and dont see any reason to change at this point. I wont be buying a zune, but not out of hatred for microsoft, or love of apple. I buy things based on fitness for the task i want them to perform, not on the corperate giant that manufactures them.
  • jellygraph, on 10/12/2007, -12/+7The Zune is about as nice looking as a baboons ass... I'm sorry, but it's ***** ugly... Apart from the XBOX360, why can't Microsoft ever seem to release anything decent?

    (No, I'm not an iPod user or own anything Apple, Apple-zealot, because Apple is crap)
    • estvir, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9> .. why can't Microsoft ever seem to release anything decent?

      Ever used / seen a Microsoft designed / built keyboard, mouse, joystick, etc ? That's ignoring their software side, too.
    • mntpng, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2I think XBOX 360 is quite ugly. It looks like it's been warped from heat. Microsoft simply has nothing to show for in terms of industrial design.

      If you just look at Zune, something just doesn't look right. The screen is too big for it's rectangular shape and thus it has this unbalanced feel to it's look. The symmetry is just not there.
  • S4LEEN, on 10/12/2007, -10/+3marked inaccurate
  • vanillaman, on 10/12/2007, -15/+11least its not fkn apple

    "duhh, lets make an mp3 player with an irreplacable battery that is designed to last for no more than 3 years. We could sell more that way :P"
    • timmarhy, on 10/12/2007, -9/+9dead-*****-right
    • drumnbass, on 10/12/2007, -7/+12Errm, newsflash for you - the Zune's battery is also internal and non-replacable... Still, at least it's not "fkn Appl" hey - so it must be a good thing...

      Actually, of course, if you removed the blinkers for just a few seconds you'd know that many companies (including Apple) offer iPod battery replacement kits or replacement services. As for the '3 years' comment - fud, plain and simple; my 2G iPod still holds a 7-hour charge after 4 years (and constant use).
  • sardaukar, on 10/12/2007, -16/+10Screw you Apple fanboys, and by that logic every person blindly dedicated to a brand - it's stupid. Something better can ALWAYS pop up, and if you dismiss it for not being brand X or Y you're very narrow minded. Give them a chance, at least.
    • fantasticjon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4I disagree. Brand names are important. Knowing what brand something is automatically tells you a lot about the product in many cases.

      That said, Next time I am shopping for an mp3 Player I will check the Zune out and see what the reviews say and what people "in-the-know" think about it. But I suspect I will stick the iPod. time will tell..
    • klang, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3When shopping for something you don't know anything about (as is the fact for most users), brand names are very important... Also, a product that has been on top for about 3 years might be worth looking at.

      Zune is going to sell .. but it's also going to be compared
    • estvir, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2> .. brand names are very important.

      One word: Microsoft.

      I think knowing that the product you're buying is from a insanely large company like MS is quite a warming thought.
  • Llan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14Why? Selling overpriced items with proprietary software worked great for the iPod. Why not for the Zune?
    • klang, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3because Microsoft hasn't ensured prospective buyers, that EVERYTHING they have already bought in WMA DRMed format, will play on Zune.
    • akhomerun, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2because playsforsure doesn't even work on zune.

      if you've already bought MS DRMed music, then you cant even use it on the microsoft player!!!
  • Koolice, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7people buy music online? why? if i hadn't bought an ipod this year i would get a Zune, maybe ill get a second gen zune. I imagine Zune's will be huge at college's with wifi. Free music whenever you want it. awesome.
    • sactodigg, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8Free music whenever you want it? I wouldn't say keeping music for three days is whenever I want it
  • fraggle35, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20Talking of MS flops, what happened to the old next big thing, the Origami?
    • readme, on 10/12/2007, -11/+5Folded. LOL.
    • lonnieh, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Personally, I really like the idea behind Origami. However, hardware vendors like the idea of making insane amounts of money just as much. So, there is a disturbance in the force.
    • flag564, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3Its still selling and being improved upon. It is far from reaching G4 Cube - $99 Leather case status.
    • muyuu, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2That's the flop of this year, a head and a shoulder over the XBOX360. The guy's talking about the flop of next year.
  • JoeyDeacon, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6I think the Zune will do very well amongst those who hate the iPod for being too cool and insist on doing things the hard way. I don't think the Zune is as bad as everyone is making out but it certainly needs a few revisions to get my vote.
    • klang, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2you too want to see what the RockBox people can get out of this hardware, right?
    • greekgoat91, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1imagine the possibilities, the hardware is there, it just needs better software, Support for AVI, OGG, FLAC, Theora, and of course a Web Browser.
  • Gee4orce, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Let's stop dissing the hardware manufacturers for adding DRM into their devices - it's not their call. I'm pretty sure Apple and MS would rather leave out DRM - which let's face it causes nothing but problems for their own customers, and costs a bunch of RnD dollars to develop. It's the music/movie publishers that insist on DRM.

    That said, I've still not encountered a situation during my 'fair use' of Apple's Fairplay DRM protected media where I found it actually getting in the way. And even if I did, it's easy enough to remove it with a little Googling. I'm not sure the same can be said of PlaysForSure or whatever scheme the Zune will fail to employ properly
    • meatloaf2002, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Im fairly certain that Apple would rather not have to distribute music with DRM. As for MS, their the ones that dveloped teh Music DRM first. I can understand the idea behind DRM... without it artists have no right to protect their intelectual property. Less and less artist are releasing music on CD/MP3 and opting for concerts instead cause then end up with more money.

      The only biff I have with iTunes Music Store is you are not able to re-download any purchased music (they keep a record of your purchases) unless you want to repay for it. Other than that I like the idea to some extent

      As for the Zune the idea sounds interesting, however as always its not going to work on Mac so I am unlikely to find the device usefull. Again like the iPod the Zune could become a formidable product given a few geneerations. Just look back to hte original iPod, there were ugly as and weighed like a brick in ur pocket
  • TonyCubed, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4The 'Zune' will most likely have a slow start, if Microsoft really want to take on Apple, then it will be a longhaul run. And people will need to realise this.
    • klang, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Microsoft will also have to renew, change and develop the device on par with Apple. Announcing a new product the day it is available is the way to compete in this marked (the nano bomb effekt)
  • adamkmccarthy, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2i cant believe 50,000 people bought it
  • grumpyrain, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Gee Robertson isn't still half dirty over losing the Lindows name.
  • Dotnetsky, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2I play MP3, WMA, etc. on Windows Media Player on my Audiovox SMT5600 SmartPhone. What do I care about all this Zune / iPod BS?
  • fquednau, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1And how does that 'zune' verb work?

    "gee, i can't copy you that song, it's been zuned"
    "zuning a song"

    or what?

    Can't like it, too attached to a product. The product may be gone in 2 years, but stupid DRM crap is gonna stay for longer. Admittedly, "DeeaRrMed" may be confused with a far more positive adjective.
  • flag564, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5I just find this amazing.


    What on Earth is the problem with these fanboys anyway? From day one they have been on the attack when it comes to this device. They have shoveled every conceivable excuse and lie on the internet as to why this device is either stupid or a fop. Never mind the fact that the thing hasnt even been released into stores yet. That convenient little fact just goes right over their heads.

    The fact that 50,000 people have one before it has reached the store shelves is not all that bad.

    I think that the constant attacks by these guys just underlines the fact that they are afraid of this device. If it is really so bad, based on the word of people that have never used it, then why spend your time attacking it? These guys are afraid.
    • Slovenian6474, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4I'd have to agree. What's with all these headlines going on about Zune already being a flop? If by flop you mean 'not making money'...then yes it's a flop because it's not released yet.

      Good God people! Can't you wait til you've tried something before bashing it? I'm not a Microsoft or Apple fanboy and try to be openminded to both sides (along with Linux), so at least play with the display model at your favorite tech store before saying 'my ipod is better'.
    • flag564, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2And the so "confident" fan kids sweep through and start modding down comments in place of insightful retorts.

  • Koolice, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4"Free music whenever you want it? I wouldn't say keeping music for three days is whenever I want it"

    thats only for music with DRM, if its music you ripped from your own cd or just regular MP3's you can share forever without any limits.
    • greekgoat91, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1i'm to sure about that, I think it applies to all tracks. I really don't care because I see it as a secondary feature. Anyway, I think the wi-fi will eventually be hacked.
  • Gunblade, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Whoa whoa, from the sounds of some your guy's comments. I am unable to put my digital music collection onto the Zune? I have to re-buy anything I put on it to meet it's DRM?
    No way. Thats impossible and way too dumb. Why havn't I heard of this? If this is true...god damn't I am going to have too probably settle on an iPod finally.

    I want a zune. I have never had a large capacity player and it meets all my needs. I like the interface doesn't seem as cluttered as all the ones out there. I like the brown color. I like everything I have seen plus I get a discount making it cheaper than anything else that compares. Plus it has FM radio!!! YES!

    Through jr. high/high-school I had some korean 256mb flash player. It died and I got a Jens of Sweden MPX and I use it for the Gym and every where I go. But every where I go but the Gym I have room and the need for a larger Mp3 player now.
    • estvir, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8The ONLY things you have to re-buy are things which are part of the PlaysForSure initiative and have been bought from Rhapsody and a couple of other places.

      So you can copy those thousand MP3s you downloaded off your favourite P2P client no problems and it can do basically everything the iPod can do (Besides Pac-Man.. that's a real loss) + more like WiFi, FM (Which you seem to be excited about), etc. :)

      See, Gunblade is a perfect example of the FUD affecting people who aren't on here 24/7 and aren't as enthusiastic as us.

      It's pretty hypocritical of you Apple fanboys, screaming for fair markets, lots of competitors, no FUD, yet when your prized company/product is threatened you use the same [apparent] tactics Microsoft does. Pretty disgusting.
  • leonbev, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6Can someone explain to me why it's OK for Engadget to blast Microsoft for adding DRM to their MP3 player, but it's fine to overlook Apple having DRM in their players as well?
    • klang, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4Apple doesn't change their DRM from one generation of products to the next. Microsoft does.
      Music bought and controlled WMA should at least play on Zune.
      Zune should at least be a "plays for sure"-device.
      Apple does not put DRM on the music you rip from CD's yourself, does Zune?
    • Yashu, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4exactly...

      DRM is bad nomatter who uses it. Apple should not get forgotten as the largest user of DRM currently.
    • estvir, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6> Apple doesn't change their DRM from one generation of products to the next. Microsoft does.

      Microsoft DOESN'T.

      You may have missed this small detail, but the first gen. Zune isn't even out, let alone other generations of the same product.

      Oh, and no PlaysForSure support is horrible right ? I guess you were along there with the other clueless people saying the Xbox would kill gaming on Windows.

      > Apple does not put DRM on the music you rip from CD's yourself, does Zune?

      No, the Zune doesn't.


      Fun fact; Apple won't license out it's DRM to anyone therefore not allowing any other company to play Apple bought media. That's reallllyy fair.
    • eddieroger, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Just like its ok to blast everything Apple on Digg and overlook anything Microsoft does poorly (Origami comment from above). Checks and balances. The world continues to turn.
    • jwdav, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Because iPods don't have any DRM "in" them. Apple's DRM works via iTunes, both in terms of authorizing iTunes to play a purchased song and letting iTunes put it on an iPod. This keeps the DRM in software, where it can be patched if broken, unlike hardware DRM. If you can get a song onto an iPod, the iPod will play it, unlike Zune.
  • AkiraXXX, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2I don't know and don't care how good or bad this product will be. I'll leave that to those interested. But I do know that Microsoft has over 70,000 employees. I also know that many, many companies depend on Microsoft to survive. Just a basic look at the numbers tells me that by blind loyalty more than 50,000 of these things should be sold. It is like working for an auto manufacturer and not drving the car you make. You add that to all the people in this country with more money than brains and more desire to be cutting edge than useful and we sold a bunch more. The last, and most telling number I have is that Microsoft has sold more than 50,000 Xbox 360s in Japan. If they can sell more than 50,000 Xbox 360s in Japan, then they will likely sell more than 50,000 Zunes worldwide.

    Apart from that, *yawn*.
  • zhulien, on 10/12/2007, -5/+0from the heading I was thinking why would Zune be a flop, it's a fantastic GUI toolkit for AROS - then after reading the article, oh, it's about M$ Zune, what a piece of **** that is - he's probably right.
    • flag564, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4Yeah.

      you guys are really winning the hearts and minds of people with arguments like:

      "It looks like a turd"
      or
      "it's a piece of *****"

      When your arguments against sound like it came from a idiot HS junior, then don't be surprised when people don't listen to you.
  • Willis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10The only way the Zune will be the "biggest flop of 2007" is if Sony manages to launch the PS3 in 2006. :)
  • waterdrop, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2I'd love to be one of only 50,000 people who own a Zune. Count me in one of those 50,000 people, and I hope the Zune does fail a horrible death, just so I can have a gadget that is very rare and it will become a collectors item. Nothing will please me more.

    That's one of the reasons I love my PSP. And I hope the PSP fails too. Do you know how cool it would be to own an Atari Lnyx? I wish I had a Dreamcast too.

    I love gagdets that fail, it just makes them even more desirable.
  • whisperedlie, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2thanks, Mr. Idon'*****. give me a break, Apple has been and will remain the most effective agent at DRMing your content and locking you out from using it with competitor products.
  • timdawg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I have never bought anything from Apple because of its DRM. I have a no-name mp3 player that only plays .mp3, .wma (without DRM), and .wav files. I'm very satisfied with my mp3 player. Sure, in ways, I would like to have an iPod, but I don't want to pay more money for a device with DRM that keeps me from copying my music back to my computer. I understand why DRM is used, but if I pay for music, I had better be able to do whatever I want with it.
  • bedouin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5How come a guy who has nothing but unsuccessful business ventures (or at least lackluster ones) gets an entire article devoted to his opinion?
    • tizzy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3If anyone knows flops its Micheal Robertson.
  • SpamHater, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3*Yawn*

    So, did this guy invent a time machine, zip to the future, see that it was a flop and come back to tell us all?

    No?

    Then he's just another putz blowing smoke out his rear. Even if he's right and ti does flop, he'll only be right by virtue of having guessed right
  • greekgoat91, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3whoever has bought music from iTunes or a service that has PlaysForSure is an idiot. The quality is unacceptable and the restrictions of DRM are ridiculous. Buy the CD, the artists get a bigger cut of the money, you don't have to worry about your harddrive getting wiped and losing your music, and finally you can rip your CD at any quality you want, without DRM. The Zune can play all my unprotected MP3s, AACs, and WMAs without a problem, so upgrading from my old mp3 player will never be a problem to me.
  • ComputerGuru, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Michael is a retard.
    The real story about Zune and DRM: http://neosmart.net/blog/archives/270
  • ruyn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Digg if you hate Microsoft!!!!111!!
  • wibblewibble, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Zune was obviously designed by "engineers" and not real "designers". Typical Microsoft. The need to get the designers and UX people to drive the project and let the engineers implement it. This is why Apple is where it is. Steve Jobs knows the role of people in the products. Microsoft is too engineer and manager heavy. I do however beleve Zune 3 maybe worth someting, forget MSFT v1 and v2 products just as you would AAPL gen 1 products :)
  • apotropaic, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Microsoft + wal-mart = ipod killer.

    Oh and the Zune will play "Play for Sure" DRM stuff... quit listening to the rumors.
  • HIPAA_Notic, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1The Zune looks like just another IPOD knock off. . . A really good knock off, but a knock off nonetheless. Wi-fi and fm are not major selling points. funcitonality and ease of use are.

    If MS could lower the price and offer something as convenient and functional as I-tunes, I may have to seriously consider buying it.

  • jdorfman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Michael Robertson has a personal vendetta against Microsoft. He should spend less time with his MS predictions and spend more time predicting the future of Linspire.
  • elv1s77, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I believe Michael Robertson because if anyone knows about flops its him. (mp3.com, Lindows, SIPphone)
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