What is Digg?249 Comments
- Skitzzo, on 12/07/2007, -37/+104Just goes to show what we value in this country...
- inactive, on 12/07/2007, -16/+65Flawed. We pay lottery winners millions, but we only pay college professors $90k per year. Does that mean we value the ability to pick random numbers more than our college professors? Of course not....it comes down to scarcity and demand, like everything else with a price (and yes, compensation is a price paid by employers for labor and is subject to supply and demand)
- MrBelding, on 12/07/2007, -5/+51This is a great debate and philisophically an important one. However with the amount of revenue in sponsorships, endorsements and bowl payouts (17 million to each team in the Rose Bowl this year) these coaches salaries are fairly well justified to most schools. Football also has important fiscal ties with alumni networks and groups affilicated with the school. The ironic part is with all this money flying around its considered an AMATUER sport.
- inactive, on 12/07/2007, -0/+44The premise of the USA today article is completely flawed. The article looks only at the top 120 Division I head coaches. For each one of them, there are literally 50 assistants or coaches in other divisions trying to work their way up to the job that is being used for comparison here. On the other hand, ALL college professors are being looked at.
I believe that if you looked at ALL head football coaches vs ALL head university presidents, you would likely see much greater parity.
The bottom line is correct: People don't understand that it is market forces that determine the value of scarce talent, not some "we value football more than academics" conspiracy. - padrebuf, on 12/07/2007, -5/+43i think high school teachers are even more important, and they get paid even less.
- Error601, on 12/07/2007, -3/+39Big time college football is really just a lower pro league except they don't have to pay the players.
- gbarberi, on 12/07/2007, -13/+49Most students also don't realize that their professors work about 50-60 hours a week. They have to grade papers, prep for their courses, attend meetings, develop the curriculum, research, etc. They do more work than seen by students.
Add to that, only a small proportion of people who seek a PhD will get accepted, get a degree, and then get an academic job. The PhD makes no fiscal sense. As the level of education goes up, average earnings go with it. Until you get to the PhD, then there is a decline in average earnings from the Masters/professional degree level. Even worse, more and more are being hired as Part time, non-tenure tracked faculty. Part timer professors have it even worse. - bigjazz, on 12/07/2007, -6/+41Football coaches work far more than 60 hours a week. I am not saying that the high salaries are justified but they do work hard and long hours at the expense of their families. Sports brings money into academic institutions which furthers research. I have never seen 105,000 people come out and pay $70 apiece to see a kid take a test. But I have seen them do that to watch a football game. The money from that and the TV network goes to the university.
- Neiby, on 12/07/2007, -7/+33And how money do those college professors attract to the college? Almost none. Very few people go to a university to study under a certain professor, with a few exceptions, of course. A good football coach can create a program that attracts millions of dollars to the university. In addition, there are fewer people who can coach successfully at that level than there are people who can be professors at the college level.
- FreshWes, on 12/07/2007, -2/+19I am a Penn State student. Out of all the schools I got into (Delaware, Maryland, RIT, VTech), I chose Penn State over the others because of Joe Paterno and the football program.
Joe Paterno's salary was first released last week at $500,000. He has personally donated over $4 million dollars to the University and helped raised $14 million for a library expansion. 3 years out of the past 5 our football team has led the nation in graduation rates.
Our Orange Bowl win 2 years ago awarded Penn State with $17 million dollars. If we win the Alamo Bowl in Jan. the University will be awarded $3 million. We have 110,000 fans in our football stadium at every game.
Penn State is what it is because of the football program and Joe Paterno. We wouldn't have the students, alumni, faculty, buildings, and other sports if it wasn't for the football program. - Xyleene, on 12/07/2007, -5/+20Which completely agrees with... "Just goes to show what we value in this country..."
- jspegele, on 12/07/2007, -13/+27...capitalism? ...free market? College professors contribute a temendous amount to our society, but how much money does their effort directly result in? Now lets look at how much money those football teams bring in. Maybe it's not "fair", but I think we've seen enough evidence that "fair" doesn't work when it comes to the economy.
- cawpin, on 12/07/2007, -4/+17FTA - "Where's the outrage among UAW workers and taxpayers in states like Michigan where college football coaches at UM and MSU make $1 million to $1.5 million per year? Isn't it time to "put the brakes on runaway college football coach pay?""
Excuse me? UAW has no business complaining about outrageous wages. None. Zip, zero, nada.
Also, the coaches bring money INTO the university. There's nothing wrong with paying them well for doing a good job. - Error601, on 12/07/2007, -2/+15Hours worked or any perception of importance has nothing to do with pay. The two main variables are how much money can be made from you work and how rare your talent level in doing the work. The secondary variables are how aggressive you are about negotiating pay and how well you sell yourself.
- norman619, on 12/07/2007, -1/+13Not entirely true. Not all profs simply teach. Some are actively involved in research which brings some schools loads of money. There are "Rock Stars" in almost every profession. Those few exceptionally gifted individuals SHOULD get paid more than the others in their field. Excellence should be rewarded.
- inactive, on 12/07/2007, -2/+14Yeah, everyone knows how good those football teams from Harvard, Yale, MIT, and Columbia are... oh, wait.
- inactive, on 12/07/2007, -2/+11Unless you're a football player or a moron, you don't choose your school you go to based on the football coach. You do it based on the school's academic reputation, which is created and maintained by the professors.
- georgetds, on 12/07/2007, -5/+14The demand for winning teams of ball players with a winning coach is in greater demand then teams of well taught students with a good teacher. Isn't that cause to wonder about our values?
- antler, on 12/07/2007, -1/+10How many Nobel prizes have football coaches won?
- Eljefedeath, on 12/07/2007, -1/+8I also like how the author implies that the "extras" of major university life, like a winning football team, are not the main reason most kids choose those places. Getting your undergrad degree from a major university, if viewed from a purely educational perspective, is a really bad deal. Those students choose those universities because of all those extras. It is a much better deal to be educated at smaller state schools, where you will actually be taught by the professor and not his aide.
- IndigoMoss, on 12/07/2007, -0/+7Excellent point. I plan to go to the University of Chicago for my last two years of school. They don't even have a national football team anymore (when they did it was one of the best), but they are one of the highest ranked schools in the world. I used to pass by their campus as a kid when driving by Hyde Park to visit my uncle.
- Kumaku, on 12/07/2007, -1/+7And i still have to pay out the nose for my education.
- StaticThunder, on 12/07/2007, -0/+6Because they never, ever have to leave their offices (say, to meet with the graduate education committee, the curriculum committee, the hiring committee, or to escape from the students and actually get a grant written), and students ALWAYS, ALWAYS make appointments (instead of just showing up right before the test with last minute questions because they didn't even read the material until the day before).
- drlha, on 12/07/2007, -4/+10What about professors who bring in millions of dollars of funding into Universities, which Universities usually just skim 30-50% off the top of. Do they get big pay raises because of the money the bring into Universities? My boss was personally involved in bringing a project to my employers that brought in about $35 million dollars of funding. Sure he got a promotion from it, but he's a long way off getting paid the high salaries these coaches do.
- MScrip, on 12/07/2007, -0/+6I don't think it matters. Even though they get their paycheck form the same place... college professors and college coaches have different jobs. A mailroom clerk at Apple doesn't make the same money as a senior level executive at Apple.
- ajb312, on 12/07/2007, -2/+8Do you know how much it costs a prof. at a top university to support a single graduate student? (here is a hint: it's >300,000 when all is said an done) Nevermind equipment! Many professors bring in millions of dollars in grants if not tens of millions.
- Hockey13, on 12/07/2007, -2/+8We should also note that the extra money brought in by a good coach helps pay the professors' salaries. So, from the coach's perspective, he has much more room to demand a higher salary. It's basic economics.
- kgmurray, on 12/07/2007, -13/+1950 to 60 hours per week? Try finding a prof after 12 noon on a Thursday. Missing in action most Fridays. 9:00 to 4:00 with no less than an hour lunch break.
That is at the most a 30 hour week. - crossgrain, on 12/07/2007, -1/+6lol
Just ask Chan Gailey, Ted Roof, Jeff Bower, Sonny Lubick, and Houston Nutt how they feel about tenured professors getting to keep their jobs if they have a "bad" year.
:p - MikeFromAmerica, on 12/07/2007, -3/+8Nice try. Teacher's unions will fight this to the death.
- satanatnmtedu, on 12/07/2007, -3/+8REAL MEN don't make comments about what REAL MEN do or do not do.
- brjndr, on 12/07/2007, -0/+5Before Jeff Tedford came to Cal, the school was selling about 15,000 season tickets. Now it sells 45,000, and some games during the season actually sell out. Just in ticket revenue alone he has more than earned his salary. It doesn't even take into account all the other money from bowl games and notoriety the university has gained.
Berkeley used to have the most craptacular commercials promoting the schools during televised games (flying graduation cap). Now that they have more revenue, they are putting out professionally made quality commercials. These commercials promote the university, not the football team. But with more games on national TV and more money coming in from athletics, the entire university has gotten more exposure.
Also, just for those who don't know....Cal = Berkeley. A lot of non-Californians don't know they are the same school. Cal is just how the sports teams are referred to, as UC Berkeley was the original University of California Campus. - simongzster, on 12/07/2007, -1/+6Those who can't learn are the ones that usually say this.
- halavais, on 12/07/2007, -0/+5That's because on most college campuses, they don't keep their job unless they can get that book (article, etc.) published. If you are at a research university, why do you think it is called that?
- halavais, on 12/07/2007, -1/+6You've falsely assumed that the amount of work that professors due is related to how much time they are in the office. In fact, in my experience, If you can find a professor in his office 20 hours out of the week, that professor is probably at the end of his career and only putting in 30 or 40 hours a week.
I spend less than 10 hours a week in my office on campus, but my *average* work week is about 60 hours. Some weeks I'm working 80. I put in more hours than my wife, who works for a large law firm, and makes more than 3 times what I make.
Don't get me wrong, I love being a professor. What I don't love: students who whine because I can't meet them on their schedule--particularly when some of those students have never worked a real job in their lives. - dajuggernaut, on 12/07/2007, -0/+5mrzack, i just got off the phone with your mother. she said that you are grounded so get off the computer, brush your teeth and go to bed.
- jspegele, on 12/07/2007, -3/+8I took that statement as meaning that we value football over education. That's not at all what I'm saying, though. What I'm saying is that we value capitalism more that "fair" pay in exhange for you contributions to society. A result of which is that football coaches get paid more than professors. But hey, maybe someday a college professor will figure out a way to make his class so good that 100,000 people to pay $100 each to watch.
- inactive, on 12/07/2007, -0/+4Yep and a higher percentage of your money pays for the coach, than all your professors combined (10 or less classes per year) regardless if you care about football or not.
I enjoy college sports, but this is just insane. (The Computer Science department at my school cut its available courses in half in order to free up funds for a new football stadium. :GRR) - mojaam, on 12/07/2007, -1/+5Technically, talented athletes and coaches bring money into a school. But of course, discussion about whether athletes should get paid is old, most get scholarships, some get all kinds of perks while in school, and some go on to make millions. But you right, just take a look at the payout column of the upcoming bowl series: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_football_bowl_ga ...
- TheDarkTemplar, on 12/07/2007, -0/+4You have to ask yourself this, how much money does a coach like Jim Tressel or even better, Coach K from Duke bring in because they have winning programs??? You keep winning, you get Alumni Support which means more $$$ donated to the school, Hell you get $4.5 MM for just showing up to a BCS bowl game this year!
- zyl0x, on 12/07/2007, -2/+6Yup.
- ajb312, on 12/07/2007, -1/+5You have no idea what you're talking about sir.
- drlha, on 12/07/2007, -5/+9If you think money from football goes to fund research then you have no idea how research funding works.
- ronaldinho, on 12/07/2007, -0/+4It's sick how much money college athletics can rake in for schools sometimes
- orlyfactor, on 12/07/2007, -1/+510 billion million zillion.
- rkdotan, on 06/06/2008, -0/+4USC's tuition hasn't gone down. and their football program has skyrocketed in the past 5 years.
- dynacrylic, on 12/07/2007, -2/+6I'll vouch for the Adjunct Faculty (part time faculty).
And I'll vouch for librarians too. - JigoroKano, on 12/07/2007, -5/+9In many states a secondary education teacher doesn't even need a degree in the subject they teach. These teaching degrees are almost useless. We need our secondary education (which is not top notch) to more emulate our university education (which is top notch).
I think we need to up their salary but only with their standards. - Coffeedemon, on 12/07/2007, -3/+7"but how much money does their effort directly result in?"
Well considering that the majority of people that will go out into the work force and earn money will require a college degree to do most any job in the future I'd say they're responsible for damn near ALL of the money.
You need education to get a job, you need a job to get money, you need money to watch games. No viewers = athletes/coaches scrambling to get 'real' jobs. - Highstand, on 12/07/2007, -1/+5As a professor, it really doesn't bother me that coaches make more than I do. There is always going to be someone who has a higher salary compared to yours. Some of the locals around here consider the profs to be overpaid elitists. It's all relative. Get used to it. On the professor side you have significantly more supply; if I keel over dead there are four or five qualified warm bodies that could take my place. When it comes to salaries, can you really blame someone for taking a high salary if it is offered to them? If I was offered $100k a year do you honestly think I would refuse it? Would I say "No that is entirely to much. I will do it for half."
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