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- parislemon, on 10/12/2007, -9/+28While I respect your argument for Rutgers if they finish the year unbeaten...which is no given...I have to disagree.
Do you really in all honesty believe Rutgers could beat Ohio State or Michigan? Did you go to Rutgers or something? Do you really think they could beat USC or Florida? Arkansas or Auburn? Notre Dame? Rutgers is not a top 5 team. They are probably not a top 10 team. The problem is that neither were Louisville or West Virginia. While you pull out their opponents win/loss record, I implore you to look deeper into who Rutgers has played and who those opponents have played (hint: a lot of IAA teams). While it isn't their fault that the big boys don't come running to play them, I can't with sound mind rank them a top 10 team, undefeated or not.
Lets go deeper into Rutgers opponents:
UNC: they are 1-9. They have only beaten IAA Furman. They are easily one of the worst teams in the country. Rutgers beat them by 5. I fail to see how that is looking "damn good".
Illinois: the worst team in the Big Ten. They have only beaten IAA Eastern Illinois and fellow Big Ten bottom-dweller Michigan State.
Ohio University: 7-3...don't seem bad until you look deeper. Their wins are against IAA UT-Martin, Northern Illinois, Western Michigan, the aforementioned Illinois, Buffalo, Kent State, and one-win Eastern Michigan. Not a single good team in there.
Howard: they are IAA...not only that, they are not a good IAA team at 4-6.
South Florida: again 7-3, lets go deeper...wins against IAA McNeese State, they beat WINLESS FIU by ONE point at home, Central Florida, UConn, the aforementioned UNC, Pitt, and Syracuse. No good wins.
Navy: another empty 7-3 team. Wins against E. Carolina, IAA UMass (by one point at home), one-win Stanford, UConn, Air Force, WINLESS Duke, and one-win Eastern Michigan. not one good team in there.
Pitt: 6-4, wins against mediocre virginia, mediocre cincy, IAA The Citadel, Toledo, Syracuse, Central Florida. lost to aforementioned Michigan State...not good.
UConn: 4-5, wins against IAA URI, Indiana, Army, and Pitt. no good wins.
and finally, the whole reason we're even having this conversation:
Louisville: 8-1...wins against mediocre Kentucky, awful Temple, a 5-5 Miami squad (we all know they are no good), a decent Kansas State team, Middle Tenn State, Cincy, Syracuse, and West Viriginia (who likewise has played NO ONE...this could go on for hours). Miami would be the jewel win there, but Miami is bad this year. The other wins are all against teams mentioned before. Thus we have our problem:
The Big East schools are not worthy because of the fact that they get to play other Big East schools and a slew of IAA schools. It is there that they rack up those wins.
True Michigan played Vanderbilt and Central Michigan. But Central Michigan is likely to win the MAC this year....and unlike the other teams Rutgers has played, Central has played ZERO IAA teams in order to achieve that good record.
Who was Michigan's other non-conference game after Central? That would be currently #5 in the BCS, Notre Dame. They have one loss...to Michigan. #9 Wisconsin has one loss...to Michigan. True, Wisconsin has played nobody, but it's relative...their "nobodies" look like NFL teams compared to some of the schools Rutger's opponents have faced.
Then of course there was Ball State, which true, was a closer-then-should have been game. But Michigan was in command in the 3rd and got lulled to sleep. The defense was dominating, it was Manningham's first game back after a few weeks recovering from knee surgery and he had 0 catches. Coach Lloyd Carr decided to put in the 2nd string defense WAY too early, and Ball State scored to make it an 8 point game. You have to look deeper into these things.
It won't happen, but I hope Rutgers makes the title game against OSU or Michigan and when the final score isn't within 3 touchdowns all will be understood. The 10 best teams in the country and Rutgers are just on an entirely different playing field. The team is a nice story this year, but nothing more, a story.
We need a playoff system...but then the focus would shift to looking at who Rutgers has played, and who those opponents have played, if they they really deserve to be in the playoff system. - ConsultantJR, on 10/12/2007, -7/+20How the hell is Rutgers #2 in the computers? The only quality win they have is over Louisville!
- ricree, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6No kidding. Heck, even a four team playoff would be a heck of a lot better than the current "let's pick two teams we think are pretty good and call it the championship game."
- Democritus2, on 10/12/2007, -8/+13Parislemon- everyone is bad. You could do the same thing with most conferences. Remember when the Big east played in last years bowl game? People thought they would get rolled, instead they did the rolling against the supposedly much stronger conference.
The games I look at:
Ohio ST 17 Illinois 10
Rutgers 33 Illinois 0
Yeah Rutgers does not come close huh? There is a common opponent buddy. Thing is, it is all speculation. People complain about BCS and computers, well I do not think it is the computers as much as it is the stupid polling. Rutgers has to overcome not being in the TOP 50 at the beginning of the season, which this system highly values. Look at some in the top 25 at start of year, they are no where in sight.
The thing is, I want Rutgers to get past WV, I just cannot see it happening. WV is a very very tough football team, especially at home. They could beat anyone on a given day.
Last things is, if Louisville won, people would not have as much problem with them being there, it is really no one "thinks" Rutgers can possibly be fore real.
Number 2 defense in the country. They did better against the single common opponent (by quite a bit) then Ohio St.
But for this week (next week can change everything), i think the computers have it right. Rutgers number 2. - parislemon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4i agree, but i think USC only has to lose one more for it to be more likely.
1 loss by USC (preferably to Notre Dame to help Michigan in the computers even more)
1 loss by Florida (which probably should have happened this week)
close Mich/OSU game on Saturday
with those things...we could see a rematch in january. - beammeup4, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8Distant third HA! not after Michigan beats OSU and we kick the crap out of Cal.
GO TROJANS! FIGHT ON!
(oh yeah, and Charlie Weis is fat (= ) - Y2JCrisis, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Okay so Michigan has beaten Notre Dame and Wisconsin and a bunch of nobody teams this year. According to you, Wisconsin and Notre Dame have also played nobody of consequence (except maybe Georgia Tech, but since ND struggled against them, you'd probably discount that). Why do you disregard Ball State as one of Michigan's non-conference games?
Also, Pitt is not a horrible team, they're actually pretty decent. And Louisville I would argue is better than Wisconsin. And you can't dispute this fact: 5/9 of Rutgers opponents have winning records. 5/11 of Michigan's opponents have winning records. So Michigan in fact has played the same number of quality teams that Rutgers has, and has played MORE bad teams. Rutgers beat 1 top 5 team, and Michigan beat 1 top 5 team. They both looked good in their games against them, though Michigan was more dominant the whole game. They both have rock solid defenses. They are both built around a great running back.
I think you're folly is that you base your opinions on your gut feeling about who is "good" and who isn't. To you, 6-4 Pitt is probably a bad team, while 7-4 Penn State is a "good" team. Penn State has beaten Akron, Youngstown State, Northwestern, Minnesota, Illinois, Purdue, and Temple. Not one QUALITY win. Pitt has beaten similar teams, their best win probably being against Virginia or Cinncinati who has beaten nobody, and Penn State's best win probably being against Purdue, who has beaten nobody.
When you get right down to it, you have no other reason why Rutgers shouldn't go to the national championship over Michigan other than your very biased opinion. It has nothing at all to do with how the teams look when they play. Rutgers had looked good in its wins against mediocre opponents, Michigan has looked downright like crap against some of its mediocre opponents, and that's why I think Rutgers is JUST as worthy of a national championship opportunity as Michigan is. Even if both teams end the season with 1 loss.
And I agree with Democritus. The polls are more questionable than the computers, in my book. - Democritus2, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Actually the more I think of it, USC has a real strong case if they win out.
Another note on Rutgers versus Michigan and OhioSt: Ohio State has played 3 top 25 teams. Of those two of them are not now in the top 25. Michigan has played 1 team in the top 25.
Oh heck with all of this, can't we just get a freaking playoff system?
grrrrrrrrrr - markgl, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6wrong its the greatest rivalry in college football, I'd say.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7Pfffft. OSU and Michigan? What about undefeated Boise State. They had an uber schedule and deserve a shot at the championship game!
/sarcasm - chaimpot0k, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Gators still have a fighting chance. If we ever start fighting that is.
- chance1376, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4You know I am liking more and more the idea of Rutgers in the Championship game against OSU or UM just to answer those lingering questions. Seriously do you think the way OSU and UM played against Illinois or Ball State is any indication of how they will play in the Championship game? It looked like both teams finally got caught looking ahead a little plus rotating players in and out to prep for the Nov 18th battle.
- Eliminator, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3No doubt Michigan has a good defense. Rutgers gives up fewer points per game though. Total yards per game is almost identical.
- Y2JCrisis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Yeah the NFL is great if you want to see a bunch of 9-7 teams duke it out in a series of the most boring football on television, to culminate with the only thing on television where the commercials are more entertaining than the actual program.
Bowls or not, NCAA is better than NFL any day. - ConsultantJR, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4ESPN blows. That's why we have to comment about everything since ESPN analysts get paid to talk out of their a$$es.
- Jergens, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Wow. So much analyzing and nut-swinging in California (what's new).
Michigan and Ohio State, ranked 1 and 2. One loses to another, which is inevitable, and all of a sudden, the loser is not "proven" enough to go to the BCS bowl. But USC lost to who? Uh...wait a minute...the name escapes me...hmm...uh...are they on that list...I don't see them. Nevermind. - Tritis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Um, yeah. Are you forgetting the part where these are just students and kids who are away from home at college? It's real easy to say send them to 5 weeks of football during finals and winter break, but these are not professionals. Not yet. It would be nice to be able to point at a team and say "Those are the champions this year." But does it really matter? That's what the NFL is for.
- isthisnametaken, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3as if we can't read through that url to see its spam. At least its not alliyah this time.
/blocked - rogermudd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The BCS sucks. It's designed to benefit "The Man." A playoff lets the players decide it on the field. Below is a link to simple 16-team bracket I mocked up using the most recent BCS standings.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/91768599@N00/296176208/
Wouldn't you like to see those games? - ricree, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Sports are competition. When you have a championship game, "spectacle" should have nothing to do with it. It is all about who is the best. Unfortunately, the current system makes that hard, but that doesn't invalidate the purpose of a championship game. Which is determining who is the best.
- Gemini25RB, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3The question really is: What does it take for OSU-Michigan to be playing again in the BCS championships?
My answer: USC needs to lose at least one, probably two. California just lost to a so-so Arizona team, I'm expecting some real vigor out of those boys this weekend. ND is still in the mix, so USC can expect a real challenge from them.
Florida needs to lose. I really don't agree with their ranking; the team just seems content to do the minimum. That being said, the end of their schedule doesn't look too bad. The Gators really need to go all out and show some vigor against Western Carolina, to have any chance in my book. Smashing the Seminoles almost seems obligatory, too.
Notre Dame is almost back far enough in the standings that they don't matter too much, but they do have the big game against USC. I'm cheering for you, Brady!
Rutgers. Yea. Strength of schedule, anyone? Definitely in the easiest 50%, if not 10-25%. I really don't expect much of a game between WV and the Scarlet Knights; WV by a long shot. (Yes, Rutgers did beat Louisville, but UL is another way overrated team, and both teams played horrendously.)
So, what do you guys think? USC loses two and Florida loses one (or barely squeaks out their wins) -> OSU-Michigan rematch? - sithvicious, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3man i dont get how USC losing to Oregon State makes them better than Florida loosing to Auburn.
- isthisnametaken, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2are you serious?
- danielwsmithee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I'm just glad my team made it in at #25!!
- LAX182, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The sad thing about this whole situation is that everyone who bashes the big east has only seen one or two games (the last two Thursdays most likely). The conference is not nearly as bad as Lee Corso wants people to think. If anything its the ACC that needs to be looked at this year... anyone here actually watch the Wake Forest - Syracuse game?? How about the cinci - VPI game? Maybe some of you big east haters caught the West Virginia dismantling of ACC contender Maryland back in September? The ACC has been the worst BCS conference for the past few years in reality.
Rutgers wont be in contention for the national championship after they visit Morgantown on December second anyway so all this talk is useless. I cant wait to see how the orange bowl plays out this year for the A$$ Clown Conference this year. Revoke their automatic bid!! Their spot could go to a real team from the mountain west or WAC... - parislemon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Rutgers looked very good in their 19-point loss to 5-5 Cincinnati tonight. They are clearly number 2 and not Michigan who lost by 3 to Ohio State in Columbus. Too bad they won't make the title game now...if they played the way they did tonight only against Ohio State it might have been 80-11.
- varland, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The team not mentioned (much) that deserves to play in the title game (if they win out) is Arkansas. I know USC blew them out, but if they run through the SEC undefeated, they deserve to play for the title.
Keep this in mind: I hate the SEC, and I like USC. However, USC hasn't been very impressive all year. They're a very good team, but not great. I don't think the SEC has a team that stands out as great, but they're all good.
Let's think about it. Florida is really good, but Auburn killed them. Auburn is good, too, but Arkansas kill them. Georgia is good. LSU is good. Tennessee is good. Even Kentucky isn't bad. MY point is this: the SEC is the best conference in the country, and it's not close.
I don't think there's a great team in college football this year, with the possible exception of Ohio State. For the first time ever, if they're going to win the title, OSU will have to beat three teams ranked #2 in the nation. They lost their entire defense, yet have been better this year. They have the best and most balanced offense in the nation, and their receivers are incredible.
If you look at everybody else, Arkansas is the next best team until they lose again. - chance1376, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I would say Ohio State would have to win it for the rematch to happen under your scenario. I think if the OSU /UM game was close with UM winning by a small amount I would think voters would but OSU ahead of ND since they got blown out by UM but there is a chance and probably a pretty good (with the way the human polls fall with ND )one that ND would jump OSU in that case. If OSU wins out in your scenario I don't see anyway that ND would jump UM after the blow out. But I would love to see a rematch come January.
Go Bucks. - mugginns, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It is the greatest rivalry in sports, sorry sir
- Avogadro65, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1yeah, I don't get this guy, That's the third I've seen today, so he's gone.
- parislemon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1we'll agree to disagree until their bowl games I guess.
but I will say this:
michigan has allowed 511 fewer rushing yards through their 11 games then rutgers has through their 9 games. that is pretty impressive. - FlaG8r, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Every other NCAA sport, including lower division football, has a playoff.
- rogermudd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Eliminator -- Interesting proposal. I just don't think you can have Middle Tennessee State, Central Michigan, Houston and Brigham Young in the mix and not Ohio State or Michigan (whoever loses Saturday). Just doesn't seem fair.
Tritis -- Obviously not professionals. But that didn't stop them from expanding the schedule to 12 games this year (an unfortunate side-effect of the 12-team superconferences). Also, it's not like they're sitting around during the month of December studying for finals. Coaches use that time to prepare for a bowl game, and perhaps more importantly, begin evaluating talent for next year. Also, it does matter to those most important to the game of college football -- the players.
I'll split the difference. Cut the season back to a 10-game schedule with a max of eight conference games. Go with an eight-team playoff which would equate to a plus-three scenario for the two teams playing in the championship game. - ricree, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@j37hr0
People say that, but I don't get why a playoff couldn't bring in just as much money. - hazlett, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If OSU and UM are that close, and the game Saturday is decided by less than, say, tenpoints, how can they NOT meet again in Tempe?????
- j37hr0, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You won't get a true playoff. There is too much money involved in the current bowl system.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Wake Forest
- Eliminator, on 10/12/2007, -1/+212 Team Playoff (see above)
ACC: Wake Forest 9-1 (5-1)
Big East: Rutgers 9-0 (4-0)
Big 10: Winner of Ohio State/Michigan 11-0 (7-0)
Big 12: Texas 9-2 (6-1)
CUSA: Houston 8-3 (6-1)
Mid-American: Central Michigan 7-3 (6-0)
Mountain West: Brigham Young 8-2 (6-0)
Pac10: USC 8-1 (6-1)
SEC: Arkansas 9-1 (6-0)
Sun Belt: Mid Tenn State 7-3 (6-0)
Western: Boise State 10-0 (6-0)
Independnt: Notre Dame 9-1 - Eliminator, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1rogermudd,
The thing I don't like about college football and basketball (to a lesser extend) is that it's arbitrary. Win your conference or go home takes that out of it. If the goal is to find the best team in D-I college football, you've already eliminated teams that aren't the best because they didn't win their conference.
Agreed, 10 games sounds about right for the regular season. - Eliminator, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1No 16 team bracket. Make it the 11 conference champs. Win your conference or go home, or to a lesser bowl. This gets rid of the argument that the BCS makes the regular season count.
- Balberty9, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0My two cents.
If michigan loses to OSU and Notre Deame beats USC. Then its OSU/Notre Dame title game. If Notre Dame beats the Number 3 and the Number 2 loses to Number 1. There is no way Florida or Michigan will see the national championship. - ectogon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12: Wisconsin, Notre Dame
- MaddoxComeHome, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0USC won't win out if Longshore gives it to Booty good, and Booty better hope he has some Trojan protection.
- paulmike3, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1it's 11:30 and m*ch*g*n still sucks.
- emack1998, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"V" is for VICTORY!!!!
Go TROJANS!!!
BTW USC vs. Notre Dame is the best college football rivalry!!!
More National Championships have been decided by this game. Fourteen Heisman winners have played in this game. No other rivalry can claim this. - reedjohnson, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I am sure ND is still pissed about the game last year with USC (one of the best games in college football history) so they will be playing tough. At least it is a home game for USC.
Fight on!!! Go USC! - FlaG8r, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1This might be the year that finally breaks the BCS insanity and gives us a playoff. I say that just because of the sheer volume of teams (particularly teams with powerful fan bases) that will be feeling screwed.
- rberger909, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Two words...FIGHT ON!! Michigan vs. USC...USC National Champs.
- mvanhorn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Go ARIZONA!
- Y2JCrisis, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Ohio State has beaten nobody but Texas. USC has beaten Arkansas at least, and have some big games at the end of the year. Michigan is Ohio State's only other big game. At least Michigan beat Wisconsin AND Notre Dame, who are both quality teams. I don't understand how youthink Ohio State would be any better than USC if they both end the season with one loss. Sure, USC lost to an inferior team, but they also will have BEATEN more quality teams.
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