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Why New York City's Iconic Pizza Is So Tough to Replicate

wired.com — A New Yorker enlists Mario Batali and a team of scientists to determine why San Francisco pizza sucks.

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  • xthpsgodx, on 04/25/2008, -138/+63***** New York.
    • IglooBurner, on 04/25/2008, -24/+37Don't hate! New York Rocks!
    • rayraym0fucka, on 04/25/2008, -21/+33what happen? someone kick your ass last time you visited?
      • ChoiceMad, on 04/25/2008, -1/+11Marble-rye theft?
      • OwdenBowden, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2most likely he got picked up as "Chicken" and has never lived it down.
      • blahtastic, on 04/25/2008, -0/+4What happen? Somebody set up us the bomb.
    • dmark77, on 04/25/2008, -27/+22***** the back water shed your mother unloaded you in.
    • Wellhungmember, on 04/25/2008, -18/+15New York Rules !!!
    • quaxon, on 04/25/2008, -26/+10new york does suck ass, atleast to live in, i dont mind a visit every once in a whle. sf>nyc any day though, but the pizza does suck ass.
      • grantilius, on 04/26/2008, -2/+1yeah, sf>ny.... if you like buttsex.
    • OwdenBowden, on 04/25/2008, -11/+8SIDEBAR:
      The reason that you cannot duplicate New York Pizza (as well as the bagels) is because it is the water that makes it. If you were to import New York Water then you could make New York Pizza.

      Nevertheless - The BEST PIZZA even can be found on Worcester Street in New Haven Ct. There is one place for RED (sauce) Pizza and another for WHITE (oil, garlic, seasoning) Pizza. Besides - after you eat the pizza you can head over and pick up some homemade Italian Ice, and other bakery.
      • mhensley1288, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2Frank's or Sally's?
        • airquotes, on 04/25/2008, -3/+2ive been to both, they call it apizza there pronounced ah-beets, but NYC opizza is the best in the world, and ive been all over, north NJ is equally good.
      • Yesplease, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2It's spelled "Wooster" St.
      • ThatGirlTasha, on 04/25/2008, -2/+3When my hubby was in law school we lived in an apartment that shared a back fence with Frank Pepe's place. Man, after reading this I'm craving it ( I'm pregnant) but now were all the way in Vegas.
        Oh well, at least we have decent Mexican food here, couldn't find that in Wooster square.
      • achoi, on 04/25/2008, -2/+1This man speaks the truth. There's something about the water that causes the bread to taste (and bake, for that matter) differently. What ends up happening is that cooking methods are adjusted to compensate for certain properties of taste, which is why pizza in chicago is so different from pizza in nyc. It's the same with bagels. And coffee. Florida is the same too, something in the water causes the bread to taste.. different.
        Foods all over the place are different based on what's available to them. The water in the nyc area causes to bread to taste differently. Likewise, steaks and other meats in chicago were better than any I've had in the nyc area.
      • OwdenBowden, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1Frank's for the white
        Sally's for the red.
        and I Spelled Wooster St. wrong so as to not give it away. I still have to go there myself and want a shot.
      • jetboyterp, on 04/26/2008, -0/+1Peppy's in New Haven...best pizza! Or a close second is Colony in Stamford.
    • SpenceMasta, on 04/25/2008, -10/+5***** you *****.
      • popfrogs, on 04/25/2008, -1/+15Spoken like a true New Yorker. Cursing at strangers is like part of your civic duty there.
      • OwdenBowden, on 04/25/2008, -3/+4Actually - if you are a true NEW YORK CITY resident you are rather nice. It is the Imported assholes that curse at you and hip check you while walking in the street.
    • ronaldinho, on 04/25/2008, -3/+6Chill, what has NY done to you?
    • Jeffler, on 04/25/2008, -1/+9You can tell we diggers are a nerdy bunch who don't get out much when we're having an all out pizza fanboy war right now.
    • BTraina, on 04/25/2008, -6/+8NJ has the best NY pizza.
      • OwdenBowden, on 04/25/2008, -3/+5NO. New Jersey has the Best Gas Prices
        New York has the Best Pizza.
      • SilentSpyder, on 04/25/2008, -1/+6Agreed, I know there must be some good spots in the city but at least here in NJ they're made by italians not mexicans. I'm not racist, I'm hispanic myself but it just feels more authentic to have pizza made by italains. The average cheapo pizza joint here in NJ taste better than the average pizza joint in NY.
    • FatO, on 04/25/2008, -2/+4And your momma!
      :D
    • cheezintern, on 04/25/2008, -3/+3no, ***** you
    • TheSuperunknown, on 04/25/2008, -3/+3Hey ***** you buddy.
  • simplistics06, on 04/25/2008, -84/+27no one cares
  • Stevo23, on 04/25/2008, -121/+84Buried. Everyone knows Chicago-style deep dish owns all. New York can't step.
    • hella81, on 04/25/2008, -39/+15No, that stuff is crap.
    • ryananger, on 04/25/2008, -17/+27Of course! Ever been to the original Uno Pizzeria in Chicago? Fantastic.
      • NSResponder, on 04/25/2008, -11/+4Uno's is mediocre. Try Medici's.

        -jcr
      • dext3r, on 04/25/2008, -2/+4I usually go over to Due since Uno's is usually filled with people. Its the same thing.
      • Klisk, on 04/25/2008, -6/+10Uno's is fast food, hardly pizza...
        • ryananger, on 04/25/2008, -0/+5Are we talking about the one in Chicago? Or one of the many franchises outside of Chicago?
          • dext3r, on 04/25/2008, -1/+3The only Uno's that counts is in Chicago. I don't know how deep dish pizza that takes 45 mins to cook is fast food. You're retarded, Kllsk.
          • warkwark, on 04/26/2008, -0/+0It takes 45 minutes to cook because the dumbass cook forgot to make it 20 minutes in. Then it came out wrong and had to be remade.
    • LucerinRed, on 04/25/2008, -7/+22Geno's East in Arlington Heights ftw!

      Why would I want a pizza as thin as paper when I can have one you have to eat with a fork!
      • Ndiggnation, on 04/25/2008, -2/+2Gino's East is awesome. I live an hour and a half outside of Chicago and could only get Gino's when I was up there. Then they started putting out frozen Gino's in a few of our stores. They're great, not *quite* the same but close enough to not have to drive to Chicago just for Gino's..
      • bot001220, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Is that Original Gino's or Classic Gino's? ;p
        • airquotes, on 04/25/2008, -4/+1who cares? Chicago aint a real city and their pizza and hot dogs are wack.
    • chanop, on 04/25/2008, -3/+35NY Pizza and Chicago Pizza are 2 different foods. I prefer NY pizza, but really like deep dish also
      • brundlefly76, on 04/25/2008, -2/+13So is California Pizza, they are all different foods.

        However, you can make a perfectly acceptable California or Chicago Deep-Dish pizza anywhere, but you cannot replicate a NYC pizza.

        Everyone in NYC knows it is because of the chemical composition of city water used in the dough - and then only certain neighborhoods.

        There is this place not far in Westport Ct that can do it, they are in the train station to NYC and I think they actually have their dough water shipped in.

        If you could replicate a real NYC pizza anywhere, you would have a top 5 franchise in the US in about 6 months.

    • aircows, on 04/25/2008, -2/+10Lou Malnati's is where it's at
    • purplehaze420, on 04/25/2008, -1/+3Damn... I love them both so much... Deep dish and thin-crust... Up here in Canada we are hard-pressed to find anything that compares.
    • Brandoskey, on 04/25/2008, -5/+10Lou Malnati's and Giordanos have the best deep dish in Chicagoland and possibly the world
    • Stevo23, on 04/25/2008, -2/+19Lou Malnati's, Giordanos and Uno are like the holy trinity of Chicago pizza, IMO.
      • nightsweat, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2Edwardo's. And Uno's outside Chicago aren't Uno's. They're some ***** Boston-based chain that bought the rights to teh name for franchising.
    • sasso, on 04/25/2008, -12/+7sorry, i live in chicago and would kill for a good slice of ny pizza.
    • Klisk, on 04/25/2008, -15/+7Deep dish pizza isn't real pizza.
      • dext3r, on 04/25/2008, -2/+6Its pizza^2. or...maybe there are both real and imaginary components to pizza....
        where NY is the real pizza, and Chicago is imaginary...so when you have NY + CHI*I, and the mod being sqrt(NY^2 + CHI^2). I guess that would be the definition of perfect pizza. Yes, the distance from the origin of man to NY and CHI. Also, I'm high.
      • nicc, on 04/25/2008, -2/+4tomato sauce based pizza isnt real pizza either! the sauce on a "real" Italian pizza is oil based, not tomato based.
        • airquotes, on 04/25/2008, -3/+2wrong
        • modix, on 04/25/2008, -4/+0actually they tend to replace the cheese with oil, not the sauce.
        • Mothrog, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1You might want to tell the Italians and the DOC that. See: pizza margherita.
    • saikyan, on 04/25/2008, -4/+7AMEN MY PIZZA CONSUMING CHICAGO BROTHERS
    • darkism, on 04/25/2008, -6/+2Give me my Home Run Inn!
  • smurfz, on 04/25/2008, -84/+8just order dominos. duh?
    • Klisk, on 04/25/2008, -1/+11That's not real pizza. It's disgusting pre-frozen fast food.
    • TrevorBelmont, on 04/25/2008, -1/+12Can't get a good steak? Just pull the bun off a Big Mac!
    • ronaldinho, on 04/25/2008, -2/+3I don't like the Oreo pizza, sorry
    • TheSuperunknown, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1You represent everything that is wrong with today's consumers.
      You could have it good or have it fast and *****... You must like *****.
    • Mothrog, on 04/25/2008, -1/+3Dominos is near the bottom of the barrel when it comes to chain delivery pizza, and chain delivery pizza is to real pizza what a ***** McDonalds burger is to a good burger.
  • purplehaze420, on 04/25/2008, -46/+312It costs $482.79 to get a decent pizza in San Francisco — $17 for the pie, $85 for cab fare, and $378.80 for the flight to New York.
    LOL
    • h4mx0r, on 04/25/2008, -12/+6where did that extra $1.99 come from? Chewing gum at the air port?
      • Harabeck, on 04/25/2008, -2/+21Tin foil to transport the pizza back to San Francisco in.
      • sofaKing812, on 04/25/2008, -1/+36Someone didn't rtfa. I'll end the suspense for you; it was tinfoil, in the lobby, with the knife.
        • Akronos, on 04/25/2008, -1/+6Hey, you got to give him credit though. Most people wouldn't notice that there is 1.99 missing unless they saw that the ending of the first number is .79 and the change for the other three is .80 but who notices that?
    • Doomsan, on 04/25/2008, -16/+67the LOL wasn't necessary.
      • ArmandoM, on 04/25/2008, -5/+19LOL is never necessary... it needs to just go away.
        • Flashtone, on 04/25/2008, -1/+12lol
        • rezist, on 04/26/2008, -0/+1can you give another meme so I can indicate to others while chatting, I have just laughed at something?
      • purplehaze420, on 04/25/2008, -9/+5You know what, you are right. I apologize profusely... Force of habit from watching too much pure pwnage... I sometimes say it in RL too... :( I need help.
      • orlyfactor, on 04/25/2008, -2/+11At least it wasn't LAWL, that really grinds my gears.
      • identitymatrix, on 04/25/2008, -2/+2If you outlaw LOL, only OUTLOLs will laugh out loud.

        (I've been wait so long to use that one)
      • otayyo, on 04/26/2008, -0/+1what about "hahaha"? probably not eh?
    • hellathatguy, on 04/25/2008, -14/+4new york has nothing on california's burritos.

      take that... F new york's "san francisco style burritos"
      • S5Z2, on 04/25/2008, -7/+5Hey I got an idea, why don't you shove those burritos up your ass. I don't care about em.
    • etx313, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2yeah thats a great line.
    • baconz, on 04/25/2008, -10/+5Who eats pie with their pizza? Ice cream maybe. But pie?
    • msbc, on 04/25/2008, -10/+4Umm, $17 + $85 + $378.80 = $480.80. What's the extra $1.99 for?
      • ubuwalker31, on 04/25/2008, -2/+5Tin Foil.
      • edilclyde, on 04/25/2008, -1/+5RTFA it was used for tinfoil.. so he can bring the pizza back to San Francisco
      • magus_melchior, on 04/25/2008, -2/+2That's the tip.
      • AceTracer, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Has the guy not heard of Muni/BART? $85 for cab fare to the airport is ridiculous.
    • cooleyandy, on 04/25/2008, -2/+3By the time he gets it back to San Fran, the pizzas' all soggy.
      • phenolholic, on 04/25/2008, -2/+2yeah and he vaporizes it in the bestalt of his microwave. then he has a $378 supermarket pizza at hand
    • Zlorp, on 04/25/2008, -6/+21if NY pizza was sooooo great then every other part of our entire ***** country wouldnt have changed it.
      • Kylau, on 04/25/2008, -3/+4This one speaks the truth!
      • Heywoodj, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2No. You just think cooked cardboard with ketchup and yellow vinyl on top is pizza.
        Poor bastards.
        • Zlorp, on 04/26/2008, -4/+2man you have a looooooot to learn about pizza.

          ever had pizza hut? yeah just some ***** restaurant chain, but their pizza tastes 100 times better than anything NY has ever produced. though i guess its hard to know whats good when you live in a filthy city that wreaks of piss.
          • Heywoodj, on 04/26/2008, -1/+1Pizza hut??????
            You are damed and nothing can save you.
            Sorry.
          • Zlorp, on 04/26/2008, -1/+1***** son, you would eat a baked turd and enjoy it simply because it was "NY style"
    • MaTT2011, on 04/25/2008, -13/+23NY can ***** right off with their ***** superiority complex that is literally founded, of all things, on PIZZA.

      give me a ***** break. No one gives a ***** about your fat people pies and the REST OF THE COUNTRY is tired of hearing how hard it is to get a pizza outside of NY.

      Is Pizza the only thing new yorkers talk/complain about? Seriously, what the hell is wrong with these people?
      • republicker, on 04/25/2008, -7/+14Tell me when New York quits smelling of piss, that will be great news.
      • BonhamsGhost, on 04/25/2008, -6/+11Says the guy that's probably never even had good NY brick oven pizza. Enjoy your Dominoes buddy. BTW authentic Chicago-style is awesome too, gotta give it some love.
      • rsmithrun, on 04/25/2008, -2/+6Pizza isn't the only thing, can't even get a decent bagel anywhere else.
    • PasteEater, on 04/25/2008, -2/+4Goat Hill Pizza on Potrero Hill (in San Fran) for the ***** win. Sourdough pizza. Come on.
      • xeren, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Right, like the guy in the $4,000 suit who spent $482.79 on pizza is going to eat san fran pizza. COME ON!
    • tyaron, on 04/25/2008, -5/+8NYC is a slimy cesspool of all things second rate. They have the second best art in the world, second best food, second best sports. I, for one, would rather live in a place that's the best for something. The only thing NYC is best at is being a *****.
    • GR8Idea, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2Fed Ex for $30.00 a pie
    • toxicvarn90, on 04/26/2008, -0/+1This article is so full of bull it hurts. I go the the Cheeseboard Pizza Collective in Berkeley, which is a co-op. They serve the best damn pizza in all of the bay area and they never once use pizza sauce or meat and yet they still serve a mighty pizza b/c the olive oil they use is a perfect substitute. Hell they even have live jazz music in their place, just to fancy up the place.

      Sure pizza in NY rocks, but making a generalization that SanFran's sucks is an understatement when you have great co-op's in Berkeley where they have one of the best tap waters in America (the article says you need an old oven and as well as good water, well the Cheesboard has both of that).
    • culbeda, on 04/26/2008, -0/+1Nah... the flights to Chicago don't typically cost over $250.
  • jayrok, on 05/14/2008, -17/+51Mario Batali = Austin Powers' Fat Bastard
    • jayrok, on 05/14/2008, -4/+9....with the exception that Fat Bastard is more Italian
    • TripcodeMel, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1He's the second-funniest guy on Iron Chef America, next to that klutz Bobby Flay.
      • SpenceMasta, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2***** Bobby Flay! Go Morimoto!
        • TripcodeMel, on 04/25/2008, -1/+0*****, Morimoto is awesome, even if he doesn't have that pure CLASS that Sakai does.

          Flay's great just because he electrocutes himself and knocks stuff over and shouts at his sous-chefs and screws stuff up. Not to mention he usually gets shot down hard in "Throwdown".

          So in other words, he's human, which is what makes him so damned hilarious.
  • MisterEX, on 04/25/2008, -90/+108Chicago-style deep dish is, without a doubt, the best pizza money can buy in America.
    • aetherboy, on 04/25/2008, -11/+31Hear hear.

      Any for a fun interesting experiment, try getting baked then ordering deep dish from 3 of your favorite Chicago pizza places and have a "pizza tasting." Its amazing how different they taste one after another like that.
    • gquaglia, on 04/25/2008, -21/+8Opinions and assholes
      • slsashrk, on 04/25/2008, -8/+1Those with opinions are assholes?
        • gquaglia, on 04/25/2008, -3/+7No everyone has one.
        • chicagodj, on 04/25/2008, -5/+5Yeah but in this case MisterEX is correct in his opinion.
        • Ayavaron, on 04/25/2008, -3/+1Opinions are a lot like assholes. Everyone's got one but we don't want to hear it.
    • sanosuke001, on 04/25/2008, -15/+9To me, they're both good in their own way. NY Style is for when you want a lighter meal and Chicago is when you want something substantial. They're both amazing. Though, if I had to choose one, NY Style all the way.
    • zydeco, on 04/25/2008, -21/+8If you're in Chicago and you're eating deep-dish, you're a tourist. Real Chicagoans eat square-cut thin crust pizza. But let's keep that our little secret.
      • chicagodj, on 04/25/2008, -5/+12I am a "real" chicagoan and I eat both. I love deep dish from the right places. And yes thin crust square cut (the more toppings the better) pizza is great as well.
        I personally believe that the highest concentration of the best tasting food in the world is in the greater chicagoland area.
        • slvrbullet87, on 04/25/2008, -3/+4Chicago definately has the best food of anywhere i have been to, including new york and paris.
          • nstanosheck, on 04/25/2008, -0/+3Obviously you have never been to China :-)
      • aposter, on 04/25/2008, -3/+5Oh, you mean St. Louis style pizza, or something different?
        • jschwabe, on 04/25/2008, -2/+4Yeah, the St. Louis style is the thin crust square cut pizza, so I hope thats what he means. Ever had IMO's pizza before? St. Louis represent!
        • amawg9, on 04/25/2008, -2/+3Fortel's FTW
        • sdloveless, on 04/25/2008, -3/+3After living in STL for a grand total of 8 years (first Brentwood, then Ferguson), I can say with a great deal of conviction that I never met a St. Louis style pizza I didn't hate. Provel (whatever the hell that stuff is) tastes like butt, and as far as I'm concerned you can put it there. And FYI, "barbecue" does NOT mean dumping a perfectly good piece of pork into a vat of Maul's for 3 hours.

          You guys got the crab rangoon right, though.
          • jschwabe, on 04/25/2008, -2/+2Dude, its the ravioli, not crab rangoon, c'mon.
            And yeah, the provel cheese isn't for everybody, it seems like most people unfamiliar with St. Louis pizza aren't fans of it, but oh well us Midwest folk still love it. I dont' follow you on the Maul's BBQ, I've live my whole life in STL and I've never met anyone who BBQs like that ( and Mauls is ***** nasty too)
      • dmourati, on 04/25/2008, -0/+9Ha. Yea. The basement at Due', or Uno's in general. I do like Chicago's Pizza deep dish delivered. They will show up at your door with a fresh hot deep dish pizza and six pack of beer at 5:00 AM. How can you beat that/
      • nightsweat, on 04/25/2008, -0/+5Like hell. Born and raised there, and I love Edwardo's, Lou Malnati's and the occasional Giordano's deep dish. Where the hell are you ordering from? Nancy's?
      • RedHerringHack, on 04/26/2008, -0/+2Chicago pizza is best, and I have eaten local pizza all over the world. Malnati's for the win. or Eduardos.
    • Klisk, on 04/25/2008, -16/+6Deep dish is kind of gross. It's all bread. I hardly even consider that a real pizza.

      You really can't get real pizza unless you go to NYC, or at least to the NJ shore. That's real pizza. Dominos, Papa Johns, etc, isn't even CLOSE to being real pizza. It might as well be wonder bread with cheezwiz.
      • MaxPayne3476, on 04/25/2008, -3/+2Maruccas pizza on the Seaside boardwalk, THAT my friend is a pizza! As is DeLorenzos in Trenton. Nothing compares!
      • Smaulz, on 04/25/2008, -1/+5Sorry, if your deepdish is all bread, you're doing it wrong.
      • boombye, on 04/25/2008, -1/+3lols how do you get more bread on your deep dish than everything else? did all the cheese just fall off?
    • Wonderama, on 04/25/2008, -24/+23Chicago deep dish is exactly like traditional NY-style pizza if it were made by a drunk, rampaging Pillsbury Dough Boy.
      • boombye, on 04/25/2008, -4/+16I take it that you've never exactly seen or tried a Chicago Deep Dish Pizza.
      • RedHerringHack, on 04/26/2008, -0/+2That's funny, but stupid-wrong. Funny though.
    • nycmac247, on 04/25/2008, -19/+4bread makes people fat ***** pigs - and you're _bragging_ about it?
      • j3ff86, on 04/25/2008, -1/+7bread is the backbone of human civilization
        • MrESaulved, on 04/25/2008, -0/+5...and fermented bread (beer) is its round belly.
      • boombye, on 04/25/2008, -0/+5Another person who doesn't know what a Deep Dish Pizza is, congrats on being a dumb ass nycmac.
    • spacerobot, on 04/25/2008, -2/+14My apartment is above a Giordanno's and behind a Lou Malnatti's... I get the best of both worlds. I'm just waiting for the day that I can get a pizza with Lou Malnatti's crust and Giordannos sauce and toppings.

      I'm moving in June... I'm going to be very sad.
      • jon30041, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1Well, right now you're a lucky lucky bastard.
      • delmar14, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1giordanno's is an overpriced chain-restaurant.
    • TheR3dMenace, on 04/25/2008, -8/+13False
    • dwalker17, on 04/25/2008, -4/+2I love Chicago style so much i roll around in it every morn
    • Pstmann, on 04/25/2008, -2/+5Grimaldi's (under the Brooklyn bridge) in Brooklyn NY is by far the best pizza around. Despite all the mid-western/south-east sentiment with their Giordano's chain support, sorry just not the same experience I was looking for. Although that was in Florida near Disney world, so maybe not representative.
      • peeinian, on 04/25/2008, -2/+4Di Fara's on Avenue J. I know its hotly contested between these 2 places. But man oh man, if you get into Grimaldi's while they are heating the ovens back up, you are in for such a treat.
        • Fuzi, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1I love Di fara's ! Grew up eating pizza there (lived on Ave H). no lines what so ever back then. I have since moved but stop by every now and then. but man oh man the lines are huge. Dom rules.
    • delmar14, on 04/25/2008, -4/+3I live in Chicago and that is just not true. I've had better pizza in Milwaukee. Everyone who has actually tried both and has functioning taste buds knows that New York kicks the piss outta Chicago on the Pizza front.
    • gtapro92, on 04/25/2008, -1/+3you cant touch new york pizza
  • ElAssoWipo, on 04/25/2008, -50/+18NYC food is terrible. The entire Manhattan Island is a culinary wasteland.
    • gregish, on 04/25/2008, -5/+19You must be joking....
      you can get food from any culture in the world cooked authentically by immigrants from those cultures in NYC
      • ElAssoWipo, on 04/25/2008, -8/+5The fact they write authentic in the window then serve you cocktail weiners in soy sauce doesn't make it actual authentic cuisine.

        NYC has some of the best haute-cuisine restaurants in the world, I'll give you that. But the average everyday food, for an everage price, is absolutely digusting. My brother lives in the village and I go there about 6 times a year, and it's always been the same.

        I'd even say that the best food you can get is actually kababs made right in the street. It's about the only thing I've eaten in NYC that wasn't bathing in oil, grease or just plain fat.
        • IglooBurner, on 04/25/2008, -2/+6For Indian and Paki food, go to Jackson Heights, Queens, and you won't pay more than $10 for your meal.
          You can't get good kababs in the lower east side.
          You have to know where to look for good ethnic food. there's a neighborhood for almost every major race in the world in NYC, look in there first.
        • cerejota, on 04/25/2008, -5/+3Well, it turns out that many places in the world, fatty foods are indeed authentic. Its not that you dislike new york food, its that you dislike the world, you xenophobic prick.
          • ElAssoWipo, on 04/25/2008, -5/+3Only problem with that is: I've been there, I ate the food, I know what it's supposed to be and I even know how to make it right.

            It's not the fat that I call unauthentic. It's the digusting things they have to do to food in order to make you pigs eat it.
      • quaxon, on 04/25/2008, -3/+5*****, theres no such thing as a good burrito in nyc.
    • IglooBurner, on 04/25/2008, -12/+3Your as ignorant as the dumbasses who voted for Bush!
      • gquaglia, on 04/25/2008, -8/+1You mean much of America?
        • BossKey, on 04/25/2008, -0/+4Less than half of the Americans who actually voted, which means much less than half of America.
          Definitely not most of America.
      • ElAssoWipo, on 04/25/2008, -4/+4Way to insult more than half your country while trying to call me ignorant.
    • ancalagon73, on 04/25/2008, -2/+3What are you kidding me? Have you ever gone to Manhattan and had a dirty water frank? Mmmmm
  • krets, on 04/25/2008, -21/+116Rat ***** in the dough machine.
    • hellathatguy, on 04/25/2008, -12/+2this just in: new yorks burritos are horrible, "it's the water" how about i waste money on mineral content of water from the "homeland"
      • crump199, on 04/25/2008, -4/+12Shut the hell up about burritos, nobody cares.
        • TripcodeMel, on 04/25/2008, -4/+3Especially when they're from New York.
    • Peko, on 04/25/2008, -1/+8Rat *****? Little Tommy never shoulda talked.
      /fageddaboudid
    • res8qr6m, on 04/26/2008, -0/+1I smell a rat in the building...
  • binaryloop, on 04/25/2008, -45/+59Stevo23 is right.
    You can't compare New York or San Francisco pizza to Chicago style pizza.
    Try some Giordano's stuffed pizza and you'll forget that NY or CA ever existed.
    • IglooBurner, on 04/25/2008, -3/+1I prefer patsy's style, but yeah Giordano's is good as well.
    • manicleek, on 04/25/2008, -8/+3and you can't compare any pizza made anywhere in the world to a good, authentic, traditionally made italian one
      • Inverno, on 04/25/2008, -5/+1If memory serves pizza is from Cuba. Tomatoes are a new world fruit.
        • manicleek, on 04/25/2008, -4/+1what does it matter where the tomato is from? If it was shipped from the new world to europe and someone invented a dish including it?

          "However, by the late 18th century it was common for the poor of the area around Naples to add tomato to their yeast-based flat bread, and so the pizza was born."
          • Inverno, on 04/25/2008, -0/+6It does if you're claiming modern pizza is a traditional Italian dish.
          • IglooBurner, on 04/25/2008, -4/+1tomato is a new world fruit, but it dosn't mean pizza was invented in the new world, pizza was invented in Italy, cuz tomato was exported there.
          • nicc, on 04/25/2008, -2/+3pizza was around LONG before tomatos were shipped to Italy. a real Italian pizza is not tomato based, but oil based.
    • derrikirred, on 04/25/2008, -2/+6LOU MALNATI'S
    • yunus, on 04/25/2008, -1/+4North Pole Pizza Depot in North Pole Alaska makes the best pizza I have ever had. Even Giordano's is not as good. Although when I tried Giordano's my hopes were so high because so many people told me how great it was, that might have ruined it a little.
    • Exhumist, on 04/25/2008, -2/+3I spent a weekend in Chicago with the sole purpose of getting a deep dish pizza :) Found my way to Giordano's on Rush St. and absolutely loved it...
      I have not been to NY, so I can't dog the pizza, and you CAN NOT judge a pizza style on a knock off replica you might have had in your town (Like some have done with Chicago pizza in this thread... Chicago deep dish is NOT full of breading... Almost no breading in a good one... it's more of a pie crust!).
      I hope to make it to NY soon for a slice!
    • krautpastry, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2Malnati's or Gino's East is better IMHO, but I would not turn down Giordanos
    • dwalker17, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2LOU MALNATI'S owns Giordano's
    • doyoumrjones, on 04/25/2008, -3/+1If I wanted lasagna, I'd get lasagna.
    • suckrpnch, on 04/25/2008, -4/+11Chicago and New York styles barely compare indeed. Chicago style is like a high end hooker, perhaps a $4000 gubernatorial ho. Something so rich and decadent, you can only hit it now and then. New York style is your nerdy librarian girlfriend that you find it hard to be away from for even one day.
    • huertanix, on 04/25/2008, -3/+2Phoenix pizza (Pizza Bianco) > Chicago pizza. the three hour wait is worth it.
    • basiccable, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1In Chicago, I like the Pequod and My Pi. I do like Lou's though - i just like the 'quod's that much better.
      • jon30041, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1Pequod's is alright... I don't really like that whole 'carmellized cheese=crust' thing, though.
    • smashingmonkey, on 04/25/2008, -1/+6NY = Pizza Pie. Chicago = Pizza Cake.
  • dmark77, on 04/25/2008, -13/+33I've been in the bay area for 8 years now, and have yet to find a pizza that comes close to NY Pizza.

    Its a not a better or worse thing, but I remain just as confused as to why so many places that claim to have NY Style Pizza miss the mark by so much.
    • HomeSkillz, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2Try Arinell (off Shattuck in Berkeley or in the Mission in SF.) I don't know if it's better than NY pizza, but it's as close as you'll come in the Bay Area.

      http://www.yelp.com/biz/arinell-pizza-san-francisc ...
    • BeatPunchbeef, on 04/25/2008, -1/+3Same with bagels, havent found a joint in CA that even comes close to Murrays bagels.
      • macaddct1984, on 04/25/2008, -2/+1I've always heard bagels suck everywhere else except New York/Long Island because of the water. I guess it holds true. I couldn't live without my Long Island bagels....
        • nicc, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2thats what my girlfriend said (its the water) as she is from Long Island, but she no longer says that having found a little bagel shop here in Richmond, VA.
          her parents even agree that the bagels from this shop here are as good if not better than the ones they get at home in Long Island.
        • Orangutan, on 04/26/2008, -0/+1bagels in NJ are on average pretty good as well... but our water and NY water is basically the same
      • gimpbully, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1Posh Bagel on Irving is the best i've found close by. They at least have Egg bagels...
    • hellathatguy, on 04/25/2008, -5/+6"i've been in the bay area for 8 years now"

      this makes you a scholar on left coast dining?
      • dmark77, on 04/25/2008, -3/+7Do I have to be an expert & scholar to say that bay area pizza doesn't taste like NY Pizza?
    • Klisk, on 04/25/2008, -1/+7It's the all in the water. As gross as people might think it is, NYC tap water is what makes all the dough and other ingredients taste so amazing. Use water/ingredients from another area and you're kind of screwed.
      • evilninjax, on 04/25/2008, -2/+5Which is also the reason why San Francisco sourdough is so good.
      • matthewf01, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1More than just the water, but this is a common belief, same thing with Italian cooking.
        But New York pizza doughs are also derived from a dough starter yeast culture that's been preserved and passed around locally, and that's a pretty huge deal too.
      • nycmac247, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1did you read the article?
      • Grok22, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1its the PH of the water.
    • quaxon, on 04/25/2008, -2/+3i live in the city and ive tried pretty much every pizza place that exists in sf. other than golden boy pizza all the pizza sucks ass. But we make up for it with burritos, try to find a good one in nyc, i dare you.
      • jbcsee, on 04/25/2008, -2/+0Your trying to tell me Zachary's and Cheese Board suck? If you are you've lost all credibility as a food critic. As for burritos, well I have to agree with you, so maybe you haven't gone completely off your rocker.
        • quaxon, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1last i checked those places werent in the city...
      • dmark77, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1Agreed. Back in NY all the mexican food was made in Chinese restaurants. I never knew what real mexican food was until I came out here.
      • SpenceMasta, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2you just didnt look hard enough, the ball fields in red hook, brooklyn
    • MaTT2011, on 04/25/2008, -7/+7So shut the ***** up and move back to NY.

      Or better yet; just shut the ***** up! Now theres a novel idea!
      ***** NY douchebags...
      • dmark77, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1What part about what I said was curt? I was pointing out a fact between east coast and west coast and you go the troll route.

        So it looks like your from California also - are an elitist that has big ears, is a WoW nerd, and have thing for cars... yeah your worldly all right.

        Stupid kid. Move back in with you mom.
    • AngelBunny, on 04/25/2008, -1/+3actually the bay area has some of the best food in the country (but not necessarily pizza). Still, good pizza is easy to get in San Fran. South bay there isn't much good pizza but east bay (mainly Berkeley) and san fran there is some good pizza places. In san fran there are a couple of places that, to me, taste near identical to most of the pizza I have had in NY, but it costs a lot more.
    • ximmise, on 04/26/2008, -0/+0If you get to the South Bay, Slice of New York always makes me homesick for NY pizza:)

      Now, if only I could find a decent bagel in this state:(
  • Epik, on 04/25/2008, -9/+29As if none of the pizza makers in new york ever set up business somewhere else or shared with another their recipe.
    • hellathatguy, on 04/25/2008, -4/+6thank you. for ***** sake!
    • alexforcefive, on 04/25/2008, -1/+16At the end of the article, he explains that the real differences are the equipment used (specifically how old it is and what fuel it uses) and the mineral composition of the water. I thought that was really interesting, you wouldn't expect water to make such a big difference
    • chicagodj, on 04/25/2008, -1/+8It is not just the recipe. You also have to take into account the ingredients. NO the same ingredients are not available everywhere. There have been many people from chicago who have tried, all in vain, to set up an Italian beef stand elsewhere in the country and all have failed. WHY? For sure they should have been able to do it, they have the same recipe. But the ingredients are not the same. You have to substitute local ingredients. Going back to pizza. So first off the water is not the same. Water tastes different in every city. Because of that your dough will be very different. Meat comes from different places and the cattle or pig or whatever may have hbeen feed a different diet therefore making the meat taste different. The tomatoes are grown in a different climate and again we go back to water that is used to irrigate the crops.
      Unless you have every ingredient flown in from the place you are trying to mimic every day you will not have the same results.
    • illt, on 04/25/2008, -2/+2Amici's pizza in the bay area tries to clone NY water, and you can really taste the difference.
      • jbella, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1Yea.. it doesn't taste as good NY pizza or regular SF pizza.
    • FrostedFlame, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2read the whole article before you make moron comments...
    • supaklaw, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2I live in NYC. A guy from NY set up a pizza joint in Missoula MT. It's good. You can make good pizza anywhere. Most pizza sucks and believe me... there is lots of ***** pizza in NY. Sbarros or Rays are perfect examples. Decent dough, a coal oven hot enough to smelt ore, sweet sauce, water mozzarella fresh basil and you can get pretty damn close. Most places use ***** ovens, ***** sauce, old ingredients. Ie. Dominos. Yeah and filling the crust with cheese isn't helping. But if you're in NYC go to Lombardi's on Spring street you'll find god. Hands down best in NYC.
  • mrferg, on 04/25/2008, -48/+232New Yorkers have a superiority complex about themselves, their pizza, and their farts. This is not news.
    • gregish, on 04/25/2008, -28/+14well if we are superior....
    • chanop, on 04/25/2008, -18/+10Don't be mad that my farts smell much better than your farts.
      • IglooBurner, on 04/25/2008, -7/+1ur own brand is always the best right?
    • n3demonic, on 04/25/2008, -11/+25Yes... their farts are far superior in stench. Let's not deny them that.
    • renagadex2, on 04/25/2008, -11/+9Bitter much?
    • magus_melchior, on 04/25/2008, -1/+10It's the same old "my [food] is better than your [food]." Those who saw the Kandagawa running gag on the original Iron Chef probably know what I'm talking about. One region thinks their cuisine rules the roost, and all others, especially those idiots on the other coast, can suck it. You will find it in every country with more than one distinct cultural area. Heck, Batali knows this better than anyone because he trekked around Italy to study its regional cuisines and spends 80% of his show talking about them-- which means the author of the article put a bit too much of a New York elitist spin on him.

      And for those of you who want great Bay Area pizza and are patient enough to wait through the crowds, try Zachary's across the bay. No, it's not New York, and you can shove that hubris where the sun don't shine.
      And digg can shove fake tag deletion there too (grumble).
    • pear1jamten, on 04/25/2008, -11/+1***** you mrferg your a dumbass who ***** his cow everyday
    • jbella, on 04/25/2008, -4/+9I agree. It's like NY city hot dogs. After hearing so much about them from books, movies, you name it.. I expected them to be pretty good. Imagine my disappointment when I discovered that your regular Costco hot dog tastes better. What the $*$&! is up with that radioactive pink onion stuff they put on top?

      NY is a great city, with a lot to be proud of. I never understood why they have such an inferiority complex.
      • ayiticherie, on 04/26/2008, -0/+1You obviously ate the wrong hot dog.
    • Zlorp, on 04/25/2008, -5/+3its true, i figure that if NY pizza was soooooo great, that everyone else in the country wouldnt have changed it. ive had NY pizza before, and you might think its the best if youve never had pizza from anywhere else.
    • blckng, on 04/25/2008, -9/+9But, you see, we actually ARE superior...
    • brainboy77, on 04/25/2008, -8/+4NYC isn't that great. Once you've seen times square and maybe 30 rock, that's it. the pizza's great but it's great in the whole tri-state area. you have to be here to realize this comment. the whole city never sleeps thing is bull. the only people you will see after 12 are crack dealers.
      • johntan894, on 04/25/2008, -1/+6Everyone who's lived in NYC for years would tell you Time Square is the worst neighborhood to live or even set foot on. Why? Because it's always flooded with tourists like you who think Time Square is God's greatest gift to New York city. All I can say is you're really missing out.
        • xeren, on 04/25/2008, -2/+0Same thing with LA. Stay FAR, FAR away from Hollywood and the walk of stars and you will be happy in LA.
    • TimeLincoln, on 04/25/2008, -2/+2New Yorkers? How about San Fransicans.
      • jbella, on 05/03/2008, -0/+1Well that is definitely true. We San Franciscan's definitely do have an inferiority complex, but you would too if you had to play second fiddle to Los Angeles over and over again. Some guy in the LA times recently called SF an boutique city! Can you imagine being called a boutique city by LA. It's enough to drive any true San Franciscan crazy
    • mochaman, on 04/25/2008, -3/+5I wouldn't call it a complex, it is just the facts.
    • quiggibub, on 04/25/2008, -4/+4The pizza in NYC is great, the people suck.
    • tikiman453, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1it's cause of all the SMUG. they've been farting into wine glasses for far too long!
    • Metis2be, on 04/26/2008, -1/+1Their farts are just as foul, you just can't tell because the regular new york stench covers it.
  • Charlesbian, on 04/25/2008, -6/+10Anyone in Chicago looking for quality pizza (outside standbys like Uno's, Gino's, Loumanattis (spelling?) etc should try Viccino's on the north shore. The clientele is mostly rich trendy posh etc etc but their pizza is pretty good, thin crust especially
    • culbeda, on 04/26/2008, -0/+1I've never found Lou Malnatti's to be that great. (In house or take-and-bake, shipped.) I used to have a hand full of great local places to go to, including an amazing little hole in the wall place across the street from the Park Ridge mall. This stuff was 3 inches thick with a buttery crust that would raise your cholesterol 50 points per slice. But that's part of what makes real Chicago-style pizza so damned good. 1 piece = 1 meal.
  • migalo, on 04/25/2008, -6/+0TOMASSO'S NORTH BEACH.......best pizza I've ever had.
  • dontstaylong, on 04/25/2008, -7/+23NYC pizza might be one of my favorite things about the city. also, working right down the street from Grimaldi's is amazing.
    • Kidsturk, on 04/25/2008, -0/+5Where do you work, Watchtower magazine?
    • amawg9, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2Grimaldi's is good but for the best pizza in Brooklyn go to Di Fara's
    • peacefrog249, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1ah, I've been there... right under the Brooklyn Bridge?

      very amazing pizza indeed.
    • supaklaw, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Lombardi's is better
  • dpcamp, on 04/25/2008, -11/+7i dunno, theres a place next to the whisky a go go in hollywood, ca, and their pizza is pretty damn good!
  • funk49, on 04/25/2008, -5/+10There are places in LA that import NY tap water for their dough. Mulberry St. in Encino is one that comes to mind.
    • Railz, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1My Brother-in-Law's Deli does that in FL.
      • skellener, on 04/30/2008, -0/+1Zuccharelli's in Ft. Lauderdale rules!
  • joerod, on 04/25/2008, -1/+16the best part about NYC pizzeria's is that they are open late night so after a night of drinking I have something to eat.
    • DCGUY12, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2JUMBO SLICE in Adams Morgan, Washington, DC for the win!!!
      • miglaugh, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1 big ups to BOURBON
        • DCGUY12, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Millie & Al's/ Asylum on WEEKDays, not Weekends.

          Will be at the Reef all night tonight!
    • pear1jamten, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1touche joerod many times after late night drinking stumble into my favorite queens pizzeria.... eat... then get kicked out :)
    • SnuKs, on 04/26/2008, -1/+1NYC gots 24 hour pizza. Socal gots 24 hour Mexican. Does the midwest have 24 hour bbq?
  • headzoo, on 04/25/2008, -9/+14You also can't get a good cheese steak sub anywhere outside of NY/PA/NJ. I don't know how many places manage to screw up such a simple sandwich, but they do. And the further you get from the tri-state area, the worst the subs get. Don't even bother getting a steak sub in Florida.
    • poopmasta, on 04/25/2008, -2/+1What about the philly based shops like Tony Luke's that set up shop in nyc and import their bread from philly?
      • mike81890, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1Tony Luke's IS the Philly Cheesteak
    • ubuwalker31, on 04/25/2008, -1/+4@poopmasta - Tony Luke's in NYC was terrible. The cheese steaks were horrendous which is why it is now closed.
      My theory as to why NYC pizza doesn't translate outside of the region is that the actual people making the pizza don't understand how it should look, taste and feel. Sure, the owner might understand, but Billy the HS kid in Iowa who is making the pizza, sure doesn't. Not to mention, tastes vary region to region, and NYC style pizza isn't what people want to eat...so pizza places cater to local tastes. Its really that simple. I don't buy this "water is different" argument.
    • jabberwolf, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Try the Philly cheese steak place around the corner of Tristes in North Beach on Columbus.
      Simply sloppy burgers, simple good philly cheese steak sandwiches.

      And they don't gouge you just because it's in SF !

    • xeren, on 04/25/2008, -0/+0Um, have you had a godmother sandwhich at Baycities Italian Deli in Santa Monica, CA?
  • elliotys, on 04/25/2008, -25/+29Went to New York. Thoroughly disappointed by the pizza and the hot dogs.
    • whymanwhy, on 04/25/2008, -10/+5Thats becasue your a tard and went to 'Ray's'. GO TO THE OUTERBOROUGHS
    • purplehaze420, on 04/25/2008, -2/+4I bet you've gotta find the real good spots to truly experience it. I know I didn't find them when I was there either.
    • IglooBurner, on 04/25/2008, -5/+26hahaha did u have "Authentic NYC Style Pizza" in time square?
      • Smaulz, on 04/25/2008, -3/+2What, it's not "authentic"? Seriously?
    • masterkenobi, on 04/25/2008, -6/+10Lol silly tourists :D
    • supaklaw, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2News flash Einstein... no one in NY eats the hot dogs... that's rat/pigeon bits soaking in a rancid dishwater for weeks.
      • ayiticherie, on 04/26/2008, -0/+2Unless you head over to Grey's Papaya
    • culbeda, on 04/26/2008, -0/+2But the bagels and bialys never disappoint.
    • Doubledown, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1you definately need to get out more
  • Demitaka, on 04/25/2008, -18/+26It's all about chicago style. New York style is too thin. However, when I do get the chance to enjoy a good New York style pizza, I always fold it.
    • renagadex2, on 04/25/2008, -2/+4Fat Chicagians
    • thescimitar, on 04/25/2008, -1/+7That's the right way to eat it! Thing is, Chicago turned pizza into a meal... nyc pie is a snack, or the parenthesis to a night of debauchery. They're two totally different beasts.
    • Doubledown, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1"Fold it like you got a pair".... I'll never forget that commercial
  • mal1964, on 04/25/2008, -14/+7"Forget About It"
  • bronskrat, on 04/25/2008, -4/+10I was hoping this article would talk about the sauce (or "gravy" as they call it in Joyzee). Every place you go in NY, the sauce has that same flavor. I want that recipe. It can't just be the water.
    • hella81, on 04/25/2008, -1/+7I recently moved to Houston from NJ and after two years of living here with crappy pizza, a family from Brooklyn opened a pizzeria here and it is as good or better than any pizza I've had back home. It also doesn't hurt that they ship all their ingredients in from Piscataway every week.
      • sparsely, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1What's the name?
        • hella81, on 04/26/2008, -0/+1Brooklyn Pizzeria. It's actually in Humble, but it is well worth the drive from anywhere in Houston.
    • magus_melchior, on 04/25/2008, -2/+2@bronskrat: It'll always be a family secret, guarded more fiercely than the mafia.
    • MrESaulved, on 04/25/2008, -2/+1You will never be allowed to know that ingredient(s?) unless your name ends in a vowel.

      /and you take the blood oath
    • tman84, on 04/25/2008, -5/+6You can always tell when someone has never lived or knows anything about Jersey, because I've yet to meet a single person in Jersey that says Joisey or Joyzee
      • onestrawplz, on 04/25/2008, -4/+3and whoever is digging you down apparently has never been to jersey either.
    • Hexogen, on 04/25/2008, -0/+4It's Jersey, and we call it sauce, not ***** gravy. Gravy is the brown ***** you put on turkey and disco fries.
  • ZephyrNinety, on 04/25/2008, -2/+25It's the water.
    • bronskrat, on 04/25/2008, -5/+3can't be
    • DCGUY12, on 04/25/2008, -7/+2Yeah, because you can't replicate "water" just anywhere. Jeeez.
    • Jpotts12, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1Really? Because I thought that's what the article just said...could be wrong though.
    • pandorazboxx, on 04/25/2008, -0/+8well some places in new york are still allowed to use coal fired ovens, which i would think would be a good reason why their pizza tastes a certain way
  • Slagtits, on 04/25/2008, -15/+6If the pizzas I see in the movies and the T.V. shows are anything to go buy, you can't get a decent pizza in all America!
    This, http://www.laporchetta.com.au/menu/?p=1117 is what a pizza should look like, we got a family
    and a large one tonight for $AU15. Beat that!!!
    • purplehaze420, on 04/25/2008, -1/+5That's a beauty looking pie mate
    • Stevo23, on 04/25/2008, -1/+12WTF? Is there even any cheese on that pizza? Auzzie pizza is weird.
    • quaxon, on 04/25/2008, -1/+3one of the best pizzas ive ever had was actually some italian place in sydney
    • tullyr, on 04/25/2008, -2/+2Ayy!!!

      Ozzy Pizza!

      Still, I miss the real deal in italy. Nothing compares to eating a fresh personal primavera with a big group of friends and adoptive family on the borderlands of Italy.
      • brufleth, on 04/25/2008, -1/+5Err...the tomato (a key ingredient in most pizzas) came from the new world. It isn't like Italy was making them for thousands of years. I'm sure you can get some great pizzas in Italy but pizzas from other places are really just as "authentic" because they don't really have ownership of it.
    • spacerobot, on 04/25/2008, -2/+6Sorry. We're talking about pizzas here. Not pitas.
    • thescimitar, on 04/25/2008, -0/+8Wtf? A cracker with a salad bar on top?
    • boombye, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2WTF kind of pizzas are those?? I'm from Chicago and that doesn't even look like Pizza to me, you could ask the Ninja Turtles the same and they'd agree.
    • Zaphrod, on 04/25/2008, -1/+3I am sorry but If that passes for pizza in Oz then I am not as sad as I once was that I have to make due with the pizza in the UK. I think Pizza hut used to do something that looked like that called Taco Pizza. It was one of the foulest things you could legally put in your mouth.
    • praisethelard, on 06/06/2008, -0/+2That looks like a tostada.
    • Mothrog, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1That looks like a salad on top of a sorry piece of bread. That's not pizza.
  • stilesja, on 04/25/2008, -17/+8This guy is nothing but an idiot New Yorker who just needs to move back there if its so great. I have a hard time believing that dude thinks the 6 pizza's he's packed up and brought back to San Francisco and re-heated to a soggy crusted mush are better then any pizza made fresh anywhere. Gestalt? Give me a break! If thats the case then this dude must have been cooked in the same Oven as 8million douchebags before him, oh wait he was! Its called NYC.
  • yunus, on 04/25/2008, -4/+16It's the water. Same reason Cheese steaks are better in Philly.
    • newelement, on 04/25/2008, -1/+5And the emissions in the air
    • DCGUY12, on 04/25/2008, -14/+3Because you can't replicate "water" just anywhere? Water is sooooooo different everywhere.
      • MaxPayne3476, on 04/25/2008, -2/+10it really is. thanks
      • joshhan, on 04/25/2008, -0/+7water = H2O (distilled water is probably the closest you can get for regular folks)

        tap water != H2O; it has a lot of other minerals and stuff. Ya dig?
      • MrESaulved, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1You can tell what part of the world you are in from the local water ingredients. Which, if you travel to far off lands, is a very good skill to have.

        /tools+talent
      • ronaldinho, on 04/25/2008, -0/+3For consumption-wise, maybe not. But for making food, even aubtle change could probably alter the taste.
  • Crosshare, on 04/25/2008, -2/+28I watched a special on this. The team actually came up with a way to alter the Ph levels in the water to match those of New York and it made the dough taste pretty close.
    • kirab, on 04/26/2008, -1/+1Your comment reminds me of the novel Snow Crash. Where the Deliverator says all America is good for is software, music and pizza delivery. Ha ha, I'm not saying it's true but the discussion of pH levels and it's relation to pizza quality just jogged my memory of that part from the book.
  • GrillingGreg, on 04/25/2008, -4/+21I'm amazed that Mario missed the obvious: different parts of the world grow different types of yeast bugs. It's the same reason you can't get great sourdough bread in New York. The same recipe produces a different outcome when you let the dough rise.
    • magus_melchior, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1Trust me, he knows. You don't graduate culinary school and run three successful restaurants nowadays without knowing terroir, or the flavor of a region. And I'm sure he said as much somewhere in the interview, but the reporter didn't think it mattered that much. One school of thought will respect the region and leverage the advantages of the terroir. Another dreams that his hometown dish is ruined elsewhere, and will spend (and charge) an arm, a leg, and someone's firstborn to replicate it elsewhere.
    • supaklaw, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1The same reason you can't brew the exact same beer in different regions of the world. Water and yeast vary.
    • trezeguet23, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1You called yeast bugs.....
  • badcrumble, on 04/25/2008, -18/+21Best pizza you'll find in America is actually at Regina's in the North End in Boston. Regina's was founded by a guy who left Lombardi's in New York (the original American pizzeria), has a 90-something year old oven that would be illegal to install in a new building now, and people have to apprentice there for a year before being able to work as a full pizza cook. In this pizza-eater's humble opinion, it's the only place outside of New York that can do pizza better than New York, but it really is the very best.
    • pat0neill, on 04/25/2008, -3/+7the man is right, and i'm originally from NYC.
    • robertml1, on 04/25/2008, -1/+3New Haven. Sally's.
    • stubear, on 04/25/2008, -4/+7So true. Regina's is awesome pizza. I'm so tired of NY'ers thinking they are the center of the f'ing universe. Get over yourselves.
    • pandorazboxx, on 04/25/2008, -9/+7false, boston is not better than new york
      • CZzyzx41, on 04/25/2008, -0/+4He didn't say Boston was better, he said Reginas was better. RTFC
      • Hollister, on 04/25/2008, -0/+4It is when it comes to baseball
    • democrats, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2I live in the North End - Reginas is good but the best in america i think not. They burnt the ***** out of my pizza the other night, tasted like crap.
    • makeminemanda, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1love love love Regina's! and that dirty water used to make it.
    • supaklaw, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1Never had it but Lombardi's is the best in NY so... gotta try it.
    • device0002, on 09/18/2008, -0/+0I went to Regina's with some of my friends from Quincy the last time I was in Boston and loved the experience. As soon as we walked in the waitresses started yelling, "Oh, look who it is... it's these F$%#S!" My friend's laughed knowingly and said, "Should we sit over here?" The waitress closest to us replied, "Sit wherever the f%$^k you want. I knew right then and there that I was in heaven.
  • punkcat, on 04/25/2008, -23/+29NYC pizza can suck my arse. greasy old, left out for hours *****.
    why people continue to buy it is beyond me.
    many people's first step is to lay napkins on top of their slice to absorb the puddles of grease.
    • umterpsfan, on 04/25/2008, -6/+9don't kill the messenger, but i've talked to many a pizza maker and they all say that the grease is a sign of good, quality cheese.

      carry on...
      • mckinnej, on 04/25/2008, -13/+3Oh *****. The grease doesn't come from the cheese. It's in the pepperoni. Have you even melted mozzarella and seen any grease?
        • paidhima, on 04/25/2008, -1/+15And when it's a plain pie? Where does the grease come from?
      • matthewf01, on 04/25/2008, -3/+11Also sounds like a stupid "salesman"-type answer, like 'look my pizza is greasy, yea we can see that --- but that means it's GREAT! You WANT grease!'
        Yea I blot my pizza. Yea it makes me look like a woman. But the calories saved let me get ***** up on that much more pizza. Win win win.
        • magus_melchior, on 04/25/2008, -0/+5Heh, a culinary example of the old Microsoft "it's not a bug, it's a feature, dumbass!" argument.
    • renagadex2, on 04/25/2008, -1/+6Well find a place less grease, freshly made pies that taste delicious. Just because you went to the pizza place in time square that said IF YOU WANT THE BEST PIZZA IN TOWN COME HERE doesn't represent all of NYC.
    • 8BitGaming, on 04/25/2008, -2/+2you're supposed to fold the slice and let the grease drip down the end
    • brainboy77, on 04/25/2008, -2/+2the grease adds flavor, numb nuts. i'm serious, get two slices of pizza, swab one slice with a tissue to get rid of the grease and have the other one normal. you'll see a huge difference in taste.
      • xeren, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2wait wait wait, you're saying things with more fat taste BETTER? you sir have changed my life :)
  • RobotLeAwesome, on 04/25/2008, -11/+5Apparently these people haven't ever had pizza from the sound end of Boston.

    Either way, if the only pizza you've ever had is from California, you're living a sad horrible pizza filled life.
    • SteelFrog, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2Yes, obviously the quality of life is determined by pizza. That's why the middle east is in such turmoil, their pizzas are horrible.
      /s
    • brufleth, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1Pizza in Boston often has a consistency problem. Not in that it falls apart but in that the same place can have a variety of pizza qualities come out of it. Crazy Doughs is an example. I used to live near it (this is the one near Boylston and Mass Ave) and for a while their pizza was awesome. Then it went straight to hell.

      Upper Crust in Coolidge Corner was consistently good but I usually like my pizza a little thicker. Still we ate that for years and I still grab a slice now and then when I'm over there.

      The original Pizzeria Regina (not the chain) was awesome the first time I went there but when I took some family and friends there again it was very disappointing.

      Obviously there is variation with different people working and stuff but seems like the pizza places in Boston need some quality control.
    • LeRenard, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1sound end? Are you talking about Southie?
      • brufleth, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1Their two distinct things. People from Southie will get pissed if you call it the south end and vice versa.
  • dronf23, on 04/25/2008, -2/+75Ok, i need to say something about this. Not all pizza from NYC is magically awesome. I lived there for about 3 years, and ate a LOT of pizza. Most of it is crap, with a small fraction of it being excellent thin crust pizza. The thing is, the NYC metro area has nearly 20x as many people as san francisco. If only 1 in 10 pizza places in new york is worth a damn, it still has more than SF does.

    Now SF may be full of soggy pizza with organic free range cruelty free artichokes, but there are still some gems here. I haven't found a pie here that can match the thin crispy awesomeness of the original Patsy's on 117th and 1st or di Fara in brooklyn, but there is still some world class pizza here.

    If you can stand dodging crackheads and hookers, try Chico's on 6th and mission in SF. Huge crispy slices, excellent sauce, crust, and toppings. A slice with feta and garlic is probably my all time favorite pizza.

    We also do deep dish pretty well. Check out Little Star on divisadero or the other one on valencia. But if you want a perfect deep dish pizza, try Zacharies in Oakland.
    • NSResponder, on 04/25/2008, -6/+4You can find the best or worst of anything in NYC, with one exception: the best pizza is in Chicago. NYC does have the best Calzone though, bar none.

      -jcr
      • intekra, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2Honestly, I was excited the first time I tried Chicago pizza. I was sorely dissappointed. Almost disgusted. I'm originally from CT/NY so maybe it's just me.
    • sfrench, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2Zachary's is really good, but the best deep dish in the bay area is at Old Chicago Pizza in Petaluma. It's quite a drive just for food, but if your in the north bay, definitely check it out.
    • Donwangugi, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1Really you cannot compare San Fran and New York. If you want to be proper, try comparing the pizza of San Fran and Manhattan, or if you want to be more inclusive, try comparing the pizza of the Bay Area with New York City. These will provide more accurate comparisons. As San Fran has a population of 800k half of Manhattan's. And Bay Area has a pop of around 7mill vs New York's 8mill. According to Wikipedia.

      Still I think that you will conclude that New York's pizza is better.
    • YanSan, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1I just moved to SF from the Detroit area, i had the chance to go to little star about a month ago. it was a really good, especially since i like deep dish pizza. It reminded me alot of Pizzapopolis in Detroit's Greektown, they are very similar, not sure which is better. i would recommend checking both places out.
    • gamche, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1It's a little far from the rest of the bay area but Mario's just north of Ukiah (2 hours north of SF) has probably some of the best pizza in Northern California. It could be of course just the water that they use.
    • RedHerringHack, on 04/26/2008, -1/+1Dug for the arti-chokes. Thanks man.
  • Scopitone, on 04/25/2008, -4/+22The best pizza in California is found at Zachary's. In Berkeley. But it's not the adorable little pizza slices New Yorkers love. It's real Sicilian/Chicago style and the kind you can only eat a few pieces of before you get an irregular heart beat and start to get "The Itis" http://www.yelp.com/biz/zacharys-chicago-pizza-ber ...
    • mdavis, on 04/25/2008, -1/+7I came in here to post that. Zacharys Pizza is the best in the world. Bar None. No Contest. Everyone who comes out here to visit, I take them there and they're blown away.
    • diggerphelps, on 04/25/2008, -2/+10It's the hippies' tears that makes it taste so good.
    • jbcsee, on 04/25/2008, -1/+3If you want what I've come to call 'California style pizza' one of the best choices is Cheese Board in Berkeley, also the better Zachary's location is in Oakland :)
    • kahnspiracy, on 04/25/2008, -2/+3Hey shut up already. Zachary's is too busy already. We don't need a whole clutter of Diggers making the wait even longer. Let everybody deceive themselves into thinking they know the best place: they're happy and we're happy.

      For the first time I'm burying someone because they added too well to the discussion.
  • mogebier, on 04/25/2008, -17/+5Isn't NY pizza the kind where they put the sauce on TOP of everything??
    That's just ***** weird. Cheese should go on top to hold everything on, like yummy yummy glue.
    • jdominiczak, on 04/25/2008, -0/+5Chicago pizza has the sauce on top of everything. NY pizza has cheese on top.
      • mogebier, on 04/25/2008, -2/+2Well then it's Chicago Pizza that is ***** weird.
  • adamf13, on 04/25/2008, -17/+13Chicago style isn't pizza. It's a casserole with a buttery pie crust. New York pizza is all about the crust and that's what makes it the best. By the way... I live in Chicago.
    • spacerobot, on 04/25/2008, -1/+6take that back you big jerk!
    • magus_melchior, on 04/25/2008, -1/+3New York style isn't pizza. It's a flat pie crust with barely nothing on it, blah blah blah.

      Look, if you compare two regions like that, it becomes about as useful and tasteful as a manhood comparison contest.
  • IAmTheGuy, on 04/25/2008, -6/+52***** Mario Batali and a team of scientists. Kill two birds with one stone and use Alton Brown.
  • crapmatic, on 04/25/2008, -2/+31"A music fan enlists a team of scientists to determine why Your Favorite Band sucks."
  • HiCaP, on 04/25/2008, -10/+2Yo, Forget About It,, NY pizza is da Best.
    • DCGUY12, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1Yo, check yo'self, yo. yo, yo.
      • yacks, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1chickity check yo'self before you wreck yo'self.
  • riffola, on 04/25/2008, -5/+4New York's best pizza place is Di Fara, in Midwood, Brooklyn. Just be prepared to wait for 3 hours to get your order if you go on a weekend. Also he raised the prices, I think it's $4 per slice now, but so so worth it.
    • amawg9, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1Dom is the man
      • Fuzi, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1$4 now? i taught it was crazy when it was $2.50... I use to eat there every week growing up in midwood.

        I still love the fact that Dom still makes all the pizza :)
  • Csense, on 04/25/2008, -4/+10I have eaten pizza from all over the States and nothing compares to the pizza I ate in Naples, Italy. Truly an amazing culinary experience.
    • Frostek, on 04/25/2008, -1/+4Seems obvious to me that they would make the best pizzas...
    • wyrdness, on 04/25/2008, -2/+2When I was in Pisa last year, I found a pizza place that the locals, rather than the tourists, use. Of course, the pizzas were superb.

      The best sourdough pizza I've eaten was in Byron Bay, Australia.
    • matthewf01, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1It's completely different, but it's lighter, and yes, much better. Go easy on your toppings!
    • luther70, on 04/25/2008, -2/+1The pizza I had while over in Italy was good but I still prefer the local pizza joints in the Chicagoland area. Maybe its the good wine that makes you think its better there.
    • CobaltBlue, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1If you want a virtual trip back, read Playing for Pizza. It'll make you feel like you are in the restaurants again.
    • gtapro92, on 04/25/2008, -2/+2i didnt kno italy was a u.s. state
    • RedHerringHack, on 04/26/2008, -0/+2Pizza, as we know it, is American. Depends on how strict you are though. I had a pizza in Austria that had fried eggs on it. Try to find that in NYC.
      • jlynas, on 04/26/2008, -0/+0Yeah right, and America invented the wheel too...
    • riverfr0zen, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2waldy's, in chelsea, gives eggs on your pizza.

      http://menupages.com/restaurantdetails.asp?areaid= ...
  • JaymezL, on 04/25/2008, -25/+15Everyone with tastebuds knows that Greaseballs can't cook. NYC pizza cannot be duplicated because it tastes like *****.

    NYC can blow me.
    • Sotired, on 04/25/2008, -2/+7for a scumbag you have a nice attitude.
      your hostility comes from where?
    • rayraym0fucka, on 04/25/2008, -2/+6another one of you retards who probably got beat down and can't get the taste of blood out of your mouth.
      • magus_melchior, on 04/25/2008, -3/+1And another troll emboldened by 'net anonymity.
        • rayraym0fucka, on 04/28/2008, -0/+2Exactly! Which is why I'm threatening to beat everyone in the internet up!
  • robertml1, on 04/25/2008, -15/+4New York pizza SUCKS (too doughy, too cheesy, even the better "thin crust" places still to thick, I've lived here 15 years), Chicago so-so at best (don't wnat to insult our friends there). Go to Sally's in New Haven, Connecticut for the best pizza in the world. Everyne who eats there, no matter where else they've been, agrees. One time and you'll believe.
    • dmourati, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2Ha!
    • blim8183, on 04/25/2008, -0/+4I'm a firm supporter of NYC pizza (especially DiFara's) but I've heard that New Haven pizza is pretty damn amazing from multiple New Yorkers who have made the trek up there. Ultimately, the search for a good pizza is about eating something delicious not participating in a pissing contest between cities. If New Haven's clam pies are better than Lombardis', so be it.
      • robertml1, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1Ah, rationality. I love New York, New Haven can't compare except for the pizza. Sally's white clam is a killer if clams are your thing....
    • Jeffler, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1Do you own Sally's in New Haven?
      • robertml1, on 04/25/2008, -0/+0Yes, and I hired the others positng about it here to do so.
  • davewashere, on 04/25/2008, -13/+25So New York's secret is ovens that haven't been cleaned in decades and water that's so polluted it adds flavor? Yeah, I definitely want that in my stomach.
    • jisc123, on 04/25/2008, -0/+20You do realize that historically New York has excellent water quality...seriously learn the facts before you state these comments
      • davewashere, on 04/25/2008, -9/+6I do know, because I'm from upstate and I live near reservoirs that are used for NYC water. I hope NYC enjoys my pee.
        • 0100, on 04/25/2008, -1/+6You don't know *****, NYC has some of the cleanest tap water around.
        • davewashere, on 04/25/2008, -7/+3Well my urine is known to do wonders for water quality. It also cures cancer.
        • xeren, on 04/25/2008, -5/+0it's true, he cured me.
    • joshhan, on 04/25/2008, -0/+12You're kidding right? This is the same concept of a good, aged charcoal grill. Try it sometime.
      • davewashere, on 04/25/2008, -5/+4I dismantled and moved an old pizza oven once. I lost my apetite for "real pizza" after I saw where all that flavor was coming from. It took 3 or 4 washes just to get that smell out of my clothes.
  • Jaxim, on 04/25/2008, -2/+9I've been living in Manhattan for a little over 3 years and i have to say that it's incredibly difficult to find good pizza here. Pizza made in New Jersey is better. I haven't tried it, but perhaps pizza from the other 4 boroughs are better, but Midtown Manhattan pizza sucks. The crust is too thick, there's too much cheese and not enough sauce for taste.

    • jonmac, on 04/25/2008, -1/+4How have you lived in Manhattan for three years and not bothered to go to Brooklyn for a real pizza?

      As far as pizzas go, you're right: Jersey > Manhattan. But Brooklyn > anything else. As some people have said here, make a trip to Di Fara's.
      • thatgreekguy, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2***** di fara's. 2 hours to get a 5 dollar slice that is subpar at best. Near difara's is luigi's pizza. its on Hillel, right next to Brooklyn College. Holy crap its friggin amazing.
      • MaxPayne3476, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2Nothing holds a candle to Trenton ;)
    • masterkenobi, on 04/25/2008, -1/+3Wow seriously, NJ?

      Yes, a lot of the pizza places in NYC do suck, which is why I only go to places like John's Pizza, Posto, etc.
      • grantilius, on 04/26/2008, -0/+1jersey pizza all the way, brooklyn has the three best pizza joints, but for overall quality across the board, jersey.
    • blim8183, on 04/25/2008, -1/+8"Midtown Manhattan pizza sucks."

      LOL, well duh. Try lower Manhattan, places like Joe's, Una Pizza Napoletana, Lombardi's, or John's will blow away anything from Midtown. For even better pizza (and food in general) you'll need to venture out into the outer burroughs.
    • brufleth, on 04/25/2008, -0/+3Oddly enough I've found much better bagels in NJ than in NYC too.
      • masterkenobi, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2Seriously? You never had H&H bagels?
    • tman84, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2Manhattan is the worst pizza out of the whole area, it's not even cooked by Italians. You can't go to a pizza place that has Albanians running it, the pizza is always crap. There are places in Brooklyn, Lower Manhattan, Staten Island, and Jersey that have awesome pizza. And the secret to good pizza is tomato sauce, thats why its best in the tristate area, because no one knows how to make the sauce
    • suckrpnch, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2You people are stupid. If you can't find good pizza or bagels in new york, you are not leaving your damn closet-sized apartments. Sure there are crappy places, but try another place. read a little bit online (you know online. the interent. the thing. you. are. using. now.) put in a little effort and quit trying to get pizza at the ***** downstairs.
    • gtapro92, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2new jersey sucks at everything give it up
  • RemovesTime, on 04/25/2008, -7/+0Consistently SUPERIOR to the 'decent " pies available NY,NJ, CA )I guess Chicago) is New Haven,CT!!! MODERN APIZZA and BRURM, being the best then Pepe's,Sally's, The Spot.....This is not opinion...just the way...