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See the original image at news.bbc.co.uk

Restaurant Tipping Law To Change

news.bbc.co.uk — Employers are to be banned from using tips and service charges to "top up" staff pay to meet the minimum wage, under government plans. The changes, set to come into force next year, will benefit those working in industries such as restaurants, where tipping is commonplace. Firms are currently allowed to divert service charges into takings

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  • AmyVernon, on 07/31/2008, -0/+93dugg for a picture of Manuel from Fawlty Towers
  • nightofgrim, on 07/31/2008, -12/+2for 111 diggs it sure is empty in here
  • renesisx, on 07/31/2008, -12/+158Tipping sucks as whole concept. Either people should do their job or they should be fired. At least in the UK it is relatively uncommon except in restaurants. In the USA it is just insane the number of places you are supposed to tip.
    • Saabzilla, on 07/31/2008, -8/+48Same thing in Japan. There, you are paying for a service already it is considered rude and a poor gesture to leave more money than the actual cost.

      In this economy people should be happy they have a job. And if you hate your job, better yourself and do what you need to in order to get a better job!
      • the6thReplicant, on 08/01/2008, -0/+11It used to be like that in Australia: tipping was looked at as though you were somehow better than them. Taxi drivers would even round down. But now tipping is seen to be "hip" for want of a better word.
      • PepeGSay, on 08/01/2008, -11/+1People should be happy to have a job? Sheesh. Can you be any more retarded emo? Unemployment is at 5.7%. 0% unemployment is a theoretical possibility at best. Because of natural variance, seasonal variance, college starting/ending, and much more *full employment* which would essentially mean the economy is providing jobs to those seeking them is somewhere between 2 and 7%. I understand that these numbers are very debatable, but the fact remains that we need to put some perspective on these things.
      • publiclurker, on 08/01/2008, -5/+2And when everyone leaves for those better jobs, it's people like you who bitch for more easily exploitable foreign labor because nobody want to do all of your work for you at insulting wages.
      • Saabzilla, on 08/01/2008, -0/+5“Insulting wages” not once did I mention wages. If you want more money, go get more money. Don’t rely on others to make money. I said if you hate your "job". Big difference.

        I also don’t bitch about forging labor; I’m a product of a “foreigner” who came to America to make a good living. Those “foreigners” as you refer to them as have a great chance to better them selves in this country and move on!

        I worked for tips as a server, I hated it. I went back to college and had to take out a ***** load of loans to do it, but I graduated and now have a job that I like and make good money.

        Be glad with what you have, tomorrow it can all be gone!
    • shauncorleone, on 08/01/2008, -11/+9If everyone who worked as a server or bartender was paid at least minimum wage (in the US at least this is not the case), I might begin to see your argument. However, if it was required to pay them minimum wage, the base price of menu items would simply increase, and these service workers would end up making less.
      • jehan60188, on 08/01/2008, -2/+24well, right now the "base price" is the menu price, plus the tip that you're /expected/ to pay...
      • ivantalboys, on 08/01/2008, -0/+14The base price of the menu item is already increase by the 'mandatory' tip amount.
      • robfrye, on 08/01/2008, -0/+6that's the kind of elitist argument that comes up all the time in this country in regards to minimum wage issues, but it simply doesn't hold water. Higher costs (and higher taxes) do not mean lower standard of living - if you don't believe me, visit any Scandinavian country sometime. Fair wages benefit everyone.

        Note: I am a business owner with employees. I'm not just talking out of my ass.
      • StGhurka, on 08/01/2008, -0/+4Fine, I'll take that deal. Raise the price so you can pay your staff a real wage.

        It'd be better than having to deal with a moral dilemma after every meal out.
      • bmatherlyjr, on 08/02/2008, -0/+1"that's the kind of elitist argument that comes up all the time in this country in regards to minimum wage issues, but it simply doesn't hold water. Higher costs (and higher taxes) do not mean lower standard of living - if you don't believe me, visit any Scandinavian country sometime. Fair wages benefit everyone.

        Note: I am a business owner with employees. I'm not just talking out of my ass."


        Higher cost from higher taxes justifies more government intervention and thus more ridiculous 'codes and regulations' that further suppresses a business owner from running their establishments as they see fit. Which lowers the morale of the owner, and has a trickle down effect to the hired hand in the form of lower wages because the money the business owner was going to allocate for payroll is now being used to finance his state representatives paid vacation, or some piece of expensive real estate.

        Mean while, outside in the real world beyond the borders of said establishment - the cost of living goes up across the board because the same scenario is being repeated across the board. The more government involvement you have the more everyone has to pay, now you are caught in a perpetual circle of having to pay more money to compensate the cost of living which is increasing however because of government involvement the rate of inflation (printing the money out of thin air depleting the value of it's own currency) and the rate of taxation (which is affectionately referred to as "legalized extortion") is raising at a much faster rate causing the price of the product and service to sky rocket while you're still making what the government thinks is fair compensation for business owners in the guise of saving them money just to fleece them else where.

        Eliminate minimum wage, get the government out of commerce and let the employees and owners be able to enter meaningful contractual agreements and decide for themselves what they each profession is worth and how much a business person is willing to pay for said service. This system seems to be working fine in professional sports (sure greed becomes an issue at some point but if your providing a service that is making the company more money as a result of higher customer retention is it not only logical to reward said skill worker with more financial compensation?).

        With this all being said, it's not the customer's obligation to mitigate the financial damage exercised by government and shouldn't be forced to pay someone extra because they bring food out to you. The wait staff isn't employed by the customer directly they are employed by the restaurant and thus it's the restaurant management who is responsible for the financial compensation of THEIR wait staff. You don't tip the sales person on the floor who is carrying your electronics purchase to the front counter. They get a commission of your purchase. Same concept here.

        Ok, I'll get off the soap box and yes, I realize we don't live in a perfect world but that's the way business was designed to work. It's government who keeps throwing monkey wrenches into the plan.
    • slifty, on 08/01/2008, -12/+19Meh - being a waiter sucks a lot. Tipping is a pretty inexpensive way of saying thanks. I see no problem with having people get paid minimum wage AND getting tips.

      Remember - not everyone is as kind and courteous to those serving them as you. There are a LOT of douche bags out there.
      • lazyguy, on 08/01/2008, -8/+25Of course you see no problem, you end up raking in hundreds tax-free per night.

        Don't even try to deny it - I know a few waitresses that make over $300 on any given day of the night. Granted, the way they act to their customers, they're pretty much prostitutes...
      • raynar, on 08/01/2008, -0/+23As long you do something extra, like keeping my glass filled, not making me have to chase you down to get some silverware, etc, then I'll tip fine.

        However, I WONT tip some coffee shop girl who turns around, pushes the button on the coffee maker, and then hands me a cup (and no i dont do that gay half and half/low fat/low sugar/whip cream "coffee").
      • tcpip4lyfe, on 08/01/2008, -6/+6@lazyguy

        I don't know how much you think that waiters actually make in tips but some night it ended up costing me more in gas money to get to and from work then I actually made in tips. If you're pulling in a couple hundred dollars a night you're working at a fancy ass restaurant and you are a damn good server.
      • kidlinux, on 08/01/2008, -0/+9"Remember - not everyone is as kind and courteous to those serving them as you. There are a LOT of douche bags out there."

        That is such a common and asinine argument from service staff. Why should I be expected to pay for the behaviour of some ***** customer?
      • creepermclurker, on 08/01/2008, -12/+0@raynar and other stingy tippers

        When you are shopping in a retail store and see an item you want to purchase has a price tag of $10.00 do you think you will be able to walk out of the store for $10 or do you correctly assume you will be paying $10 plus sales tax (where applicable)?

        I assume you realize it's going to cost you a bit more and you budget your shopping experience for it.

        Why is it so difficult for people to get it into their heads that they simply have to do the same with regards to tipping. Even though the menu says $10 you know it will actually cost you an extra 15% or 20%.

        What the problem? How is this so tough to understand? Why do you feel entitled to get something for nothing?

        Pay your bill.

        (Full disclosure: I've never personally worked for tips.)
      • igyigyigy, on 08/01/2008, -0/+5In most countries the sales tax is also included in the price displayed
      • BinaryFragger, on 08/01/2008, -0/+4creepermclurker:

        Not sure where you live, but in Canada, restaurant meals are taxed just like retail goods. And no, tips are NOT mandatory.

        If I receive excellent service, I'll gladly tip and return to the restaurant. A tip is supposed to be a reward.
        A rude waiter/waitress won't be receiving a tip from me and I won't be returning to the restaurant.
      • slifty, on 08/01/2008, -2/+2For those who seem to believe I'm speaking selfishly, please know that I've actually never been a waiter or any other person doing a service job - my only experience in the transaction has been from hearing stories from friends who are waiters, witnessing interactions, and eating at restaurants myself.

        My point is that it is kind to treat people well who are in undesirable situations. This is why a person might give their garbage collector $20 bucks during the holidays, why you might leave a tip for hotel staff.

        I'm not saying you HAVE to be kind and generous, but if you aren't kind and generous then at least realize what you're doing.
      • acAeris99, on 08/01/2008, -0/+1I don't see tipping as an expensive way of saying thanks. Adding 10-20% to the total isn't inexpensive in any instance. I already need to pay sales tax and that's about 8%. So whenever I go out I have to add a total of anywhere from 18% to 28% to my total. That's a lot. In addition, why should you get paid min wage AND get tips? And I bet even if people got min wage + tips, they would still not report their tips on their tax forms. Whereas, us people that don't get paid tips get our money after-tax.
    • frostbyt, on 08/01/2008, -2/+21I wish I could vote you up 100 times. Tipping is out of control.
      • BigW, on 08/01/2008, -0/+11I agree. I love how a 10% tip used to be the rule, now thats moved to 20%. I'm sure "recommended" tips of 30% aren't too far off.
    • gunitloolah, on 08/01/2008, -15/+28I don't think you people understand how tipping works in the US.

      a) Tipping isn't REQUIRED anywhere. You can walk out of a restaurant without tipping, sure. Some restaurants will charge your card 15% to make up for it, which can be reinforced legally, but if you pay with cash you can easily just walk out.

      b) However, it should be noted that the current minimum wage for waiters is $2.13/hour, which is less than half of the common minimum wage for all other non-tipping jobs in the country. By tipping, you are hopefully making up for this discrepancy. It is dually a blessing and a curse for what has potential to be one of the most stressful jobs you can have. If you don't agree, you clearly haven't worked in a busy metropolitan restaurant.

      c) Also, let's say you put down a 10 dollar tip on a 50 dollar meal -- you should know that the waiter will probably get half of that at MOST, and the remainder will be split between bar staff and busboys.

      Tipping is in no way out of control, hell, it's mostly just making up where the Federal Government falls short.
      • nesagwa, on 08/01/2008, -1/+24The only reason restaurants can pay them below the standard minimum wage is BECAUSE they receive tips.

        There isnt any law requiring them to pay them 2 dollars an hour. They could easily pay them 8 and put up a sign that says no tips please (like they do at grocery stores for baggers)

        But then their wage wouldnt be coming straight out of the customers pocket, it would come out of the owners.
      • raynar, on 08/01/2008, -1/+20They can't legally charge your card. Some say a gratuity is added, but its not legit until you sign the bill.
      • o0joshua0o, on 08/01/2008, -1/+28It's unfair that the restaurant owner expects the customers to pay for the labor. That should be part of the restaurant's overhead, not a direct cost to me as a customer. It's as absurd as adding a surcharge for the restaurant's electricity bill.
      • cawpin, on 08/01/2008, -0/+13raynar - Exactly, I'm glad somebody else knows the legalities of this stuff. I refuse to pay a "gratuity" that is automatically added. If it is a gratuity it isn't charged, it's given. If they don't take it off, they don't get paid.
      • the6thReplicant, on 08/01/2008, -5/+8So in America you don't have to tip? Cool. All you have to do is become a dick instead. Maybe being one or the other isn't really what the average person wants.

        Gee, I think I found a metaphor for American politics.
      • tcpip4lyfe, on 08/01/2008, -1/+6@ o0joshua0o

        When you buy ANYTHING you are paying for what it takes to keep that businesses doors open. That includes garbage removal, labor, food, and the cost of keeping the employee vending machine stocked as well as the electricity bill. That "surcharge" is already included in your bill.
      • mike17032, on 08/01/2008, -6/+2Its amazing how many people in this thread fail at economics.

        Of ***** course the cost of the employees is passed onto you. Wether its by giving tips or in the cost of food, its going to be there. How the ***** do people not know this?

        Most eating places operate on a razor thing margin already, a law like this would make the cost of the meals go up.
      • rockefeller2, on 08/01/2008, -0/+4The minimum wage is $2.13, and that assumes you will get enough tips to get you to the regular minimum wage of $6.25(???). If you get $0 in tips, the resturant is required to give you the difference so that you made, on average, the regular minimum wage.
      • frostbyt, on 08/01/2008, -0/+8Tipping is out of control. Ever been to Vegas? Everyone and I do mean everyone has their hand out. Every time someone wants to open a door, deals you a blackjack, or wants to lift your luggage they expect.

        Next time a dealer gets blackjack when I have 20 I want a tip.
      • frostbyt, on 08/01/2008, -0/+8Oh btw the restaurant is legally bound to make up the difference per hour to equal minimum wage. So even if they do a crappy job and get no tip they still get paid.
      • s0nicfreak, on 08/01/2008, -2/+2Yeah you don't have to tip. Enjoy that spit in your food the next time you go to a restaurant.
      • Izabl, on 08/01/2008, -1/+3minimum wage is $2.13 in the US?
        holy hell, and american laugh at canadian?
        ok, I would tip if that was the case in Canada...but it is not.
      • laughandsing, on 08/01/2008, -1/+2And how do you expect they enforce that? Take the employer to court for 15 bucks that they should have given you? My sister doesn't even get paid for the extra hour that she stays to clean up every night. You really think that they would pay her the extra 3 bucks an hour to make minimum wage?
    • dirtyfrog, on 08/01/2008, -0/+9I am in the US and the places I tip are sit down restaurants, bars, and my barber. Are there places other than this that people leave tips?

      I know some cafe's and fast food places put out tip jars but I don't believe many people actually do it. Maybe they drop some coins in that they get back for change. I actually can't believe their managers let them have one though.
      • rachelf, on 08/01/2008, -1/+3Hrm you got me thinking about what I tip for and my list is quite long...

        drivers (cabs, limo drivers), hotel staff (bell boys, front desk, room service - especially the ones that know where you can find 'party favors'), any type of food joint sit down or not with the exception of fast food, delivery services (grocery, pizza,etc except UPS/fedex/mail stuffs), any type of in home services (lawn guy, house cleaning, even my dog-poop-picker-upper), bars/clubs even the freakin VIP booth put in an auto 15% on top of the 250$ bottle of grey goose.

        Most of it is definitely vegas culture, ever since I moved here, I find myself tipping people all the time.
      • Digitalfilm43, on 08/01/2008, -2/+13@ rachelf - Have you ever thought of doing things for yourself? You hire someone to pick up your dog's *****? Wow.
      • rachelf, on 08/01/2008, -9/+2Yeah, I had to hire someone else to pick it up once or twice after a week long work massacre. Try picking up two weeks worth of labrador and bichon poop in vegas landscaping (tiny rocks everywhere, mixed in with dog crap, its a disaster and I don't have the time to sift through that)

        Besides, where do you go off assuming I don't do anything myself? I obviously do if I have money to pay other people to do the things I don't want to do myself. I.E., I can be working on a $$$$ project or pick up dog crap... hrm.... what to do???
      • SeligErasmus, on 08/01/2008, -0/+3@rachelf

        If you're paying $250 for a single bottle of Grey Goose, you're already getting ripped off. Don't let those ***** Vegas carnies make a sucker out of you, dude. Demand a hooker or a couple of rails, and THEN discuss tipping.
      • laughandsing, on 08/01/2008, -0/+1Well...not everyone should get tips... Someone you are paying to do your yard work when you already pay a rediculous amount for them to do it? Their employers should be paying them enough to do the job... Now offering them a drink on a hot day? That would just be courteous.
      • ifoughtfate, on 08/01/2008, -0/+2@Digitalfilm43

        He earns the money to pay the people to do stuff he doesn't want to do. How is that a bad thing?

        And of all the things he pays people to do, you picked out picking up his dogs *****? Of course he doesn't want to pick up his dogs *****! Who wants to pick up dog *****?

        I don't even like animals, but if for some reason I got a dog, I would definitely pay someone to pick up it's *****, providing I could afford to, and that I could find someone willing to pick up *****...
    • kungfumaniac, on 08/01/2008, -0/+9In many states waiters get salaries that balance out tax, so their paychecks come to 0.00. They're literally working for tips.
      • MScrip, on 08/01/2008, -1/+3And that's a ***** shame. If they stood behind a cash register they would make $7 an hour. But they are running around a restaurant all day and night, never getting a break, and they make $0.

        I feel sorry for restaurant workers. They should get paid a real salary, and any tips are a bonus.
    • huaone, on 08/01/2008, -2/+2I disagree. The tipping system overall shouldn't affect aggregate wages of waiters/waitresses, they're just distributed differently. (imaging going from an 100% salary system to a 40/60 salary/commission system) Nor should the system affect aggregate prices of food aka what you pay. (going back to a 100% salary system will simply increase the prices of foods, effectively eliminating the savings from a no-tip system)

      The tipping system however, will force waiters/waitresses to *earn* their wage. If they do a ***** job, they might get less money. This completely explains the utter ***** that is restaurant service in Europe and Asia, where waiters/waitresses have much less incentive to be nice to customers.
      • gurudrew, on 08/01/2008, -0/+5If they do a ***** job they get fired. How much more incentive do they need?
      • TheMajikMan, on 08/01/2008, -1/+2No, Huaone is right. Tipping actually gives freedom to the customers. If they didn't expect you to tip, you would just pay more for food. You get to say "Thanks for treating me well" instead of just giving each person the same. Better waiters/waitresses make better money. I know I give more money to people that pay good attention to me than ones who don't.

        Gurudrew: You actually mean to tell me that you think that everyone that does a ***** job gets fired? Do you know how hard it is to fire someone without getting sued?
      • warriorscot, on 08/01/2008, -0/+1I can't speak for Asia but I have always had amazing service in Europe for the most part, better than in the US where unless it is very quiet you see your server as a blur of motion and few muttered words. In fact the only time I usually got a conversation with a server in the US is when they can't understand my accent(Scottish) or making a grounds keeper willy joke.

        In Europe especially the continent I always find people take allot of pride in their work, and in small restaurants you can often end up chatting with the server or owner and they don't do it so you will give them a tip they do it because they want to.
      • gurudrew, on 08/01/2008, -0/+1@TheMajikMan
        Were I live, it's a "work at will" state so you can be fired for anything or nothing at all and there is no legal recourse unless you can prove discrimination.
    • davidlow, on 08/01/2008, -3/+7Tipping makes sense for any job with these three characteristics:

      1) The position represents the primary point of interaction between the company and the customer.
      2) There is no practical way for the company to asses the customer satisfaction aspect of the job.
      3) The position involves direct physical interaction with the customer as part of a service activity.

      The dynamic of tipping implies that the worker/server is, to some degree, working on behalf of the customer in dealing with the company/boss.

      Compare the average quality of service between low tipping countries and high tipping countries. If you have broad experience with this then you'll know that the difference is obvious.
      • rolf, on 08/01/2008, -0/+1I've been to countries like Japan and Germany* where tipping isn't emphasized, the service tends to be better. I don't know if this is inherent in the tipping system or just better training.

        Anyway, your three characteristics are broad enough to include cashiers, salespeople, and so on. You say there is no practical way fro the company to assess customer satisfaction of waitered service - but are you sure? And isn't it better for the company to keep tabs on the waiting staff so there aren't negative experiences for the customers? I know that even with substandard service, people feel pressed to leave a tip -- so a substandard waiter can comfortably stay at a restaurant that doesn't keep tabs while affecting the restaurant negatively (i.e. people don't go there because of bad service).

        *In Germany, you can tip but the 15% gratuity for a waiter is already in the mealprice. Because of this, most residents don't leave a tip or leave trinkgeld, small amount of leftover change or something under an euro.
    • pumah, on 08/01/2008, -1/+4@lazyguy
      Tips in America are taxed. You have to declare it as income.
      • lazyguy, on 08/01/2008, -0/+9... you SHOULD be declaring it as income.

        Let's be realistic here..
    • Disillusion, on 08/01/2008, -0/+4In our society being opposed to the tipping system in any way = you are wrong and an *****. WTF people?!
    • aegis9975, on 08/01/2008, -0/+14Service in Japan, a country where you don't tip (as mentioned above), the service is extraordinary. In restaurants, in bars, everywhere. It is consistently amazing most of the time. Its kind of hard to equate tipping with good service after living in Japan. And this is coming from someone who worked his way through college as a waiter in the US.
      • nicko68, on 08/01/2008, -0/+13That's because the Japanese tend to take PRIDE in their work.
    • warriorscot, on 08/01/2008, -0/+3Its funny in the UK in the past it was very common to tip for anything, then it started to fall out of fashion here but continued in the US unabated. It then spread BACK to the UK as we had more interaction with the US through media and tourism, we definitely tip more now in the UK than we used to even if it is still limited to mostly restaurants and the occasional cabby.

      As a principle I don't agree with tipping unless you receive service that is above and beyond, as an everyday thing you shouldn't feel obliged to because the person serving you is underpaid. What you pay on the bill should be the cost of what you buy and the cost to get it to you there should be no more obligations past that.

      I also don't agree with service charges, they are just a stealth charge, they justify it with saying large groups cost more to serve but that isn't true, 8 people at one table aren't harder to serve than 4 at two table. Also big groups are obviously spending allot of money and more likely to spend above the average as in big groups people often tend to be more "generous" with their cash.



    • xyzzypoofs, on 08/01/2008, -1/+1Interesting that the rest of the world matters to so many people but rewarding good (or bad) service does not.
  • cheezwhip, on 07/31/2008, -2/+29I highly doubt that something like this will ever come to the U.S. Businesses that capitalize on low paid servers would be outraged at their shrinking profit margins.

    On another note, the minimum wage in the U.K. seems to be pretty high compared to that of the U.S., but I assume that that is due to a higher cost of living.
    • iharbinger, on 08/01/2008, -8/+3you do know that the US dollar and the UK pound have different values, right?
      • avonalt, on 08/01/2008, -0/+5What's your point?

        He said the UK minimum wage seemed high. £5.52 at ~$2 to the £ is $11, which is significantly larger than the national US minimum wage of $6.55.

        Looking at some prices: http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/qu ...
        It looks like there's about a $1 : £0.9 mapping in terms of prices, so the UK minimum wage seems in line with the higher cost of living.
      • drcreek, on 08/01/2008, -1/+4Wow, thats like me working a job for £3.50 an hour, I was getting better than that when I was 14 for helping out in an office on a Saturday.

        You really need to sort your selves out America.
    • cpjackso, on 08/01/2008, -0/+12The minimum wage is currently £5.52 ($10.90) per hour. It will raise to £5.73 ($11.31) in October.
      • igyigyigy, on 08/01/2008, -0/+4By then with the dollar dropping it'll be worth $15 :)
    • betterth, on 08/01/2008, -3/+19"U.S. Businesses that capitalize on low paid servers would be outraged at their shrinking profit margins. ""

      Err.. let me fix that for you.

      "U.S. Businesses that capitalize on low paid servers would pass on the cost of higher wages straight to the consumer, while maintaining their profit margins".

      Much better.
    • TotalHalibut, on 08/01/2008, -2/+13It's not due to the higher cost of living, it's due to the fact that in the UK, you get a minimum wage you can actually live on. Work 40 hours a week on that, you can afford a flat and to feed yourself and pay your bills. Might not be a very good flat, but it's a damn sight more than you'd get on the US minimum wage.
      • mike17032, on 08/01/2008, -9/+3Sorry, I dont think high school ***** offs should get $11 bucks an hour to work at Mc Ds.

        Any adult making min wage failed at life.
      • ssn697, on 08/01/2008, -0/+4Using your logic, I can see that you ***** up at life. HEre, let me generalize like you did, douchebag:

        Anyone who would use an ID like mike17032 failed at life.
        Anyone who would make a generalized statement about a million individuals failed at life
        Anyone who assumes everyone working minimum wage is a high school ***** off failed at life

        Get the picture?
      • TotalHalibut, on 08/01/2008, -0/+3Not everyone can be a doctor or lawyer. Someone has to flip your burgers, and not everyone is equally able. To say that those people shouldn't be able to live at least on a subsistence level is elitist in the extreme.
    • reaper527, on 08/01/2008, -1/+2and that higher cost of living is a direct result of the fact that their taxes are much higher than ours. (both direct, like their VAT, and hidden taxes, such as the ones on companies which raise the cost of a product when the consumer gets it)
    • SteeleJK, on 08/01/2008, -0/+1TV tax, road tax, etc.
  • Plasmatica, on 07/31/2008, -0/+35This reminds of that scene in Reservoir Dogs.
    • toconnor, on 08/01/2008, -1/+28Nice Guy Eddie: C'mon, throw in a buck!
      Mr. Pink: Uh-uh, I don't tip.
      Nice Guy Eddie: You don't tip?
      Mr. Pink: Nah, I don't believe in it.
      Nice Guy Eddie: You don't believe in tipping?
      Mr. Blue: You know what these chicks make? They make *****.
      ...
      Mr. Pink: I'm very sorry the government taxes their tips, that's ***** up. That ain't my fault. It would seem to me that waitresses are one of the many groups the government ***** in the ass on a regular basis. Look, if you ask me to sign something that says the government shouldn't do that, I'll sign it, put it to a vote, I'll vote for it, but what I won't do is play ball. And as for this non-college ***** I got two words for that: learn to *****' type, 'cause if you're expecting me to help out with the rent you're in for a big *****' surprise.
      • Neoanarchist, on 08/01/2008, -1/+4*****...what an amazing movie...
      • cquilliam, on 08/01/2008, -1/+4You just made me want to watch it again, thanks.

        By far my favorite movie ever.
    • kyrie, on 08/01/2008, -1/+2I'd go over twelve percent for that...
  • Chickenlip, on 07/31/2008, -23/+14Tipping IS totally lame. Restaurants should just raise their prices by 15% and similarly pay their employees a lot more, or not.

    I for one, stiff servers more often than most would, mainly due to the fact that my meal experience was awful due to the poor service. When I started doing this, servers would sometimes (rarely) follow me out to the parking lot, asking me if something was wrong with my meal. When I lay it out for them, just how awful my experience was, I have NEVER had an apology. They always make excuses about how busy it was or something. It's really crazy.
    • danibobanny, on 07/31/2008, -11/+20Chickenlip, servers make something like $2.19 an hour. Unless you have a truly "awful" dining experience--like finding a severed head in your dish or your waiter punching you in the face--it's really poor form to leave them nothing at all. Servers often have to share their tips with bartenders, buspersons, or other staff. This is not to mention that being a waiter or waitress isn't exactly the most fun job, dealing with rude people, obnoxious children, etc. What you're doing is incredibly selfish and unkind. Seriously, please rethink your actions.
      • Chickenlip, on 08/01/2008, -14/+16If someone isn't doing their job, why should I pay them?

        Furthermore, even if they are doing their job, it's really not my responsibility to pay their salary, it's the restaurant's.
      • pattink, on 08/01/2008, -4/+3Chickenlip, may I ask what you do for a living?
      • britblogger, on 08/01/2008, -7/+7I agree with Chickenlip on this. When I walk into a restaurant (or a New York City cab for that matter), I expect to get what I am paying for - the food - which goes to the restaurant manager, who in turn should be paying the server's wages.

        I will tip for outstanding service, but refuse point blank to tip for so-so or below par service. Tipping is customary for good service... remember that.
      • freezerburn666, on 08/01/2008, -11/+4well isn't that strange, most servers i've ever met make at LEAST minimum wage, PLUS the $50 - 80 dollars a day in tips. 2.19, you must be exaggerating. i'll continue to stiff servers, because i've known so many who just go out at 11:30 get ***** wasted snort coke all night sleep in and then go to work the next afternoon to do it again. they are racking in more money than i am and saving money by only spending their 'free' tips on luxuries like cocaine and alcohol. i've never met a server who was struggling, who didn't have their own place and a car.
      • TheDiceMan, on 08/01/2008, -1/+10amazing how restaurants and employers pay ***** but its the customer who picks up the slack for their pay. like its a guests fault that their waiter gets paid in sand and rubbles.

        after being in the industry, i don't think i've met one fellow worker
        who blames the management for their pay
      • vtdanokim, on 08/01/2008, -0/+6I completely agree. I spent 3.5 weeks in Korea in April/May. The service I recieved in places from quick breakfast places to 5 star resorts was impeccable. The service staff is not paid any more than minimum wage there, and the cost of living in Seoul is insane. The service was impeccable and they would blush and would refuse tips. We stayed at The W in Seoul, and the bellhops were extremely helpful in loading and unloading our bags, would bow, and than quickly walk away before you could tip them. Why should I line the pockets of the restaurant owners for not paying their servers? As it is customary here in the USA I do tip, and tip quite well, but as others have stated I start at 25% and it will go down, and down quickly if the service is not great. I generally do not leave a tip lower than 15% unless the service was appalling.
      • avonalt, on 08/01/2008, -5/+1The Tipped Minimum Wage law mandates that a tipped employee's hourly income must be greater than or equal to the minimum wage. If in a given pay period an employee makes less than that, then the employer must pay the difference.
        Tip if you want to and had a courteous waiter who performed their job well. Otherwise don't and let the restaurant pick up difference.
        Waiters are unskilled laborers and really shouldn't make the large amounts they can now, as they make a very minimal contribution to society.
    • HighPriest15, on 08/01/2008, -2/+11Yeah, my friend makes 3.15 an hour. When he gets people like you he has no reason to invest time in them, because they just cost him money.
      • ColorBlind, on 08/01/2008, -0/+4Exactly, why waste time on a poor investment. Most servers look for common symbols that people who do not tip give off. If you're going to be server, get a job at a fancy restaurant where wealthy people eat - increase your odds. Also, some places are starting to pay flat rates to servers and turn down tips. My sister works at a place like this in Raleigh.
      • britblogger, on 08/01/2008, -5/+13then perhaps your friend should get a better ***** job.

        I'm tired of snivling little kids or students whining about how little pay they get and actually COUNT on getting tipped. Count? Give me good service and I will tip, 'cos if you're going to be a lazy ***** and spend half your time flirting with the bar staff, then you're getting nothing but the cost of the food.

        It's not the customer's duty to augment your friend's income because your friend CHOSE to work a $3.15 per hour waiting job.

        I'm sick of having this ***** argument every time a "tipping" article hits digg.
      • Spuy767, on 08/01/2008, -7/+4"Most servers look for common symbols that people who do not tip give off."

        Like being black?

        Zing!

        Seriously, when I go to a restaurant with my black co-workers, they are always leaving change and singles on a 15$ plus ticket, and that's just low.
      • avonalt, on 08/01/2008, -3/+2If serving people for $6.55 an hour isn't worth your friends time, maybe he should find a new job.
      • AsSubtleAsABrik, on 08/01/2008, -3/+3@britblogger

        I can understand you not wanting to tip in principle but in reality anyone who doesn't tip or tips poorly is really a scumbag. Sure, some people deserve bad tips, but there are so many factors that are out of the waiters control that affect your meal. He can't control how fast the food comes out of the kitchen or if it's prepared well. He can't even necesarily control how much "attention" he gives you if it's really busy because everybody has a million things to do.

        And tipping is how they make their money. For a lot of people it's not just some high school job to make some money, it's their livelyhood.

        And not everybody can just CHOOSE where they work. Or else they would CHOOSE to work somewhere that paid them very well.
      • britblogger, on 08/01/2008, -2/+1@ AsSubtleAsABrik

        I understand your point, alas it doesn't take away from the fact that I have worked for very hard for what I have today, and haven't relied upon the generosity of others to supplement my income if I've done a half-arsed job.

        don't you dare think for one second that my generous nature is going to bail you out of being a lazy bastard for not getting a second job to augment your OWN wages.

        I'm done with this futile arguing over the [many] freeloading and lazy wait staff.
    • shauncorleone, on 08/01/2008, -0/+6There are many moving parts to a restaurant. Many times slow service is the server's fault, but often times it's the kitchen, or perhaps they're dealing with a highly unruly table who the owner/management will not take action on.
    • evilesttoast, on 08/01/2008, -8/+5@Chickenlip
      Because in the US, its customary to leave a tip for your server. It's called being polite.
      • Murasakishikibu, on 08/01/2008, -2/+3Leaving tips are the way you show appreciation to them, not to be polite.
        If we had to leave tips for being polite, then we should pay tips to everybody who shows us excellent service.

        Like shauncorieone said, many times, it is not waiter's fault that the service is slow.
        It is WRONG to not tip them/tip them poorly for things that are not their fault.
        THAT'S why the tipping system needs to change, so that it is fair to the waiters.
      • the6thReplicant, on 08/01/2008, -2/+1I refuse to tip someone who doesn't know what an entree is :)

        I wonder how far I get with that. yeah I KNOW!
    • pintomp3, on 08/01/2008, -0/+5how nice of you. more often than not, it's not the server's fault the food is bad or late.
    • fefu, on 08/01/2008, -2/+5I hope you don't go back to the same restaurants because they're spitting in your food now.

      Someone would almost have to punch me in the face to not get a 20% tip. I hate the tipping model and wish folks were just paid a living wage, but that's not the culture we live in.
      • britblogger, on 08/01/2008, -3/+1and that's YOUR choice, not everyone's.
    • Coffeedemon, on 08/01/2008, -1/+1I'm not the most generous tipper, but I always give the normal 15% at least unless the food was cold, an order was messed up or I was just ignored. I know its the person's job to do all this but when someone's job entails waiting on my demands, serving me food and coming back to see if everything is ok from time to time I don't feel wronged by giving them a little something.
    • lnf69, on 08/01/2008, -4/+1Chicklips,

      You say that "Tipping IS totally lame".... and then you go on to explain exactly what is so cool about tipping.
    • charliebucketts, on 08/01/2008, -4/+3People who stiff servers are *****. Busboys, food runners, the bar tender and the hostess get a piece of the tips. If you don't tip it hurts people that don't have anything to do with your plate. The server has to pay taxes on a tip she did not receive.
  • mttyd, on 08/01/2008, -23/+8Buried for being in the UK and not anywhere important (:
  • freezerburn666, on 08/01/2008, -16/+7***** tipping, i hate seeing retarded bitches making more money than i do just because they make tips. why should i ***** tip someone for doing their job? nobody tips me. i wanna go out and spend 50 dollars a night on booze that was "free money" from tips just for doing a ***** easy brainless waiting job.
    • howyudoin, on 08/01/2008, -5/+1You don't want to see retarded bitches making more money than you do just because they make tips?

      Work harder.
      • freezerburn666, on 08/01/2008, -1/+4i do work hard, i have two jobs. but there's no reason why they deserve tips, especially for the LACK of service you usually get. why do they deserve ***** hand outs and free money? huh? tell me?
      • lnf69, on 08/01/2008, -4/+3Ha, ha. "Lack of service." This is proof to me that you are a lousy tipper and frequent the same places.

        If you know how to tip, and if you are not an *****, and if you frequent the same places regularly, you would be receiving good to great service all the time, with very few exceptions.

        But by your tone and logic, I'm guessing that you are an ***** to the servers, and on top of that you never leave more than 5 or 10 % every time you eat out. (Talking sit-down restaurants here. Not mickyDees.)
      • tcpip4lyfe, on 08/01/2008, -0/+1Then go to college.
      • SteeleJK, on 08/01/2008, -0/+1@ Inf69
        "If you know how to tip, and if you are not an *****, and if you frequent the same places regularly, you would be receiving good to great service all the time"

        That kind of defeats the point of tipping though. A tip is a reward for good service NOT paying extra so you CAN get good service. You make it sound as if you have to frequent and restaurant and start tipping good so you can begin to receive good service after they see you as a good tipper.
        How do you think a manager would see this problem? Do you think they'd say, "Oh well she gave you horrible service because she KNOWS you are a bad tipper." Yeah... exactly. She'd get reprimanded and you'd get a free breakfast coupon. I've seen it many times.
        I'm not saying you should tip poorly but the service/tip cycle should ALWAYS start with good service regardless of how the person usually tips.

      • lnf69, on 08/04/2008, -0/+1 SteelJK,
        I said "Good to GREAT". There is a lot of room there. You are correct about how everyone deserves good, (I'd say decent) service. But a dinning experience can be so vastly different from just getting your food on time to being treated like a "preferred" customer. If someone is not interested in this type of service, tipping more than 10% is not necessary.
    • srondizzle, on 08/01/2008, -4/+4Here's a piece of advice...STAY HOME. Don't go out to eat. EVER. For the price of a meal at a restaurant, you can buy your own groceries and serve yourself your own ***** dinner every night. Tip yourself whatever you want.

      If you can't afford to properly tip, then you shouldn't be eating out at all. I'm sorry your mother taught you no class.
    • mike17032, on 08/01/2008, -3/+3If its so easy, go wait tables.

      Oh right, you are a lazy worthless *****.
      • SteeleJK, on 08/01/2008, -1/+1How do you know he is lazy? From his comment it says he has 2 jobs. How many do you have? I only have one, but then again, I'm not going around calling people "lazy worthless *****" either.
      • srondizzle, on 08/02/2008, -0/+1SteeleJK, I think by "two jobs", he meant two shifts a week at Walmart.

        This guy doesn't even sound qualified to clean up my dog's *****.
  • taseedorf, on 08/01/2008, -5/+36I say do away with tipping all together. I mean, come on! Implied tipping? HELL NO! I say, UP there minimum wage, or pay them MORE than minimum wage, and if they deserve it, or do something to make my experience more enjoyable, THEN they get a tip...not just because society says we have to. Being that most servers are making minimum wage or less, I feel bad not tipping them...I mean, it's the only way they can make a living; tips!
    • quadkid, on 08/01/2008, -2/+9agreed. not everyone deserves a tip. but if you want free drinks or deals at a bar, tip the bartender well, they remember good tippers.
      • taseedorf, on 08/01/2008, -0/+3I know that from first hand experience...tipping is a must at the bar....but *****, I wish they'd lower the drink prices....Drinking a 12 pack at the bar is the equivalent price of a keg.
    • frostbyt, on 08/01/2008, -2/+1You speak the truth.
    • scott12087, on 08/01/2008, -0/+2I wish I could digg you twice
  • Sogui, on 08/01/2008, -3/+12Awesome, but will we ever see this in the US?
    • insomniac8400, on 08/01/2008, -1/+4It doesn't happen in the US. Here people are paid below minimum wage to begin with. It seems the article suggests that in the UK people are paid minimum wage, but that is adjusted to a lower amount so that when tips are included you are still making minimum wage. Honestly it sounds like a better system. It sounds like tips just went to the house and not the waiter or waitress. It just sounds like people were stupid enough to tip the house not realizing the tip didn't go to the waiter or waitress. Now they have moved from a system where the waiters and waitresses worked for their salary to one where they work for tips. Expect rudeness and feelings of entitlement to go up to American levels.
    • stubear, on 08/01/2008, -1/+3No, and if the Immigration reforms some want go into law then it will be a huge step backwards since we'll have a steady flow of willing Mexicans working for a pittance just to earn a living. Hooray for creating a new slave class out of you neighbors to the south. Oh, and your service experience will drop as well since we'll have a lot more people in service jobs that can't speak english and properly provide service.
    • mike17032, on 08/01/2008, -4/+2God I hope not, communism FTL.
    • mr_wej, on 08/01/2008, -0/+1If you live in Oregon then you already see it.
  • pockiez, on 08/01/2008, -18/+2Everyone who commented above me is an ungrateful, stuck up douche. Except the three people who didn't comment about tipping.
  • freezerburn666, on 08/01/2008, -4/+14oh and there's always the famous "those costumers were cheapskates they spent $150 dollars for their table and only tipped me 10 bucks!"
    • matthewf01, on 08/01/2008, -0/+8or alternatively, 'customers'
    • flangepiece, on 08/01/2008, -1/+4Yeah, damn them. They can ***** off back to the theatre where they belong, and sew some dresses or something.
    • perogi21, on 08/01/2008, -4/+5You are a ***** dumb ass. The feds automatically tax 8% of your sales. So essentially, the waiter now has to cover your lack of tipping and pay taxes on money he/she never received.

      Now if the waiter sucked ass, definitely screw them over, but if they provided excellent service, make sure you pay them for their efforts. If you cannot do that, eat at home.
      • sanosuke001, on 08/01/2008, -3/+0The 8% tax is (should be) factored into the cost of the food.

        Regardless of how much you tip, the tax does not come from the tip.
      • clumsytime, on 08/01/2008, -0/+3sanosuke001: you don't understand. perogi21 is correct in that the IRS is assuming everyone who works for tips takes in 8% of their sales in tips. they must pay taxes on this income. so, say this douchebag freezerburn666 buys $100 in food at a restaurant, that server is assumed to make $8 in income according to the IRS, and the IRS will tax them accordingly. so because this idiot feels he shouldn't tip anyone, the server is paying a few bucks for him in the form of income tax. if you don't report enough income based on your sales, they WILL add it for you and it shows up as 'allocated tips' on your W-2.
      • sodade, on 08/01/2008, -2/+2Mr. Pink: I'm very sorry the government taxes their tips, that's ***** up. That ain't my fault. It would seem to me that waitresses are one of the many groups the government ***** in the ass on a regular basis. Look, if you ask me to sign something that says the government shouldn't do that, I'll sign it, put it to a vote, I'll vote for it, but what I won't do is play ball. And as for this non-college ***** I got two words for that: learn to *****' type, 'cause if you're expecting me to help out with the rent you're in for a big *****' surprise.
    • csaw, on 08/02/2008, -0/+2agreed with perogi. I am a waiter myself, and what most people don't realize is that servers are usually (at nicer places at least) required to tip out the rest of the support staff. Usually this is around 4% of total sales. This is why tipping is 15%, to cover the myriad of people who put that food on your plate, and so the server can make rent.
  • bird757, on 08/01/2008, -0/+20Definitely leave it the way it is, let me tip. I get GREAT service when I frequent a restaurant. They usually bend over backwards to make my experience nice. Why? Because I tip well. And the tip system gives me a way to complain about my food or experience. (By not tipping well) And it also gets my money into the hands of the better waitress. If you raise their wage and discourage tipping, bad waitresses will get your money! NOO!!!!!
    • insomniac8400, on 08/01/2008, -8/+4And then you do what anyone would do, complain. You don't need to make conditions of extra payment in order to get good service. If people are paid to wait tables, they will do it good. If they don't they will be fired. As the consumer it is not your job to pay the employee of the restaurant. It is the restaurant's job.
      • lnf69, on 08/01/2008, -4/+3Hey stupid, he said "GREAT" service not good service.

        If you've never experienced the difference, then you're probably too cheap to leave a decent tip and DO NOT DESERVE GREAT SERVICE. Just good service. Take a crow bar to your wallet, leave a little extra once or twice, and then go back. If you tip well regularly you will see a BIG difference in the way you are treated.
      • mike17032, on 08/01/2008, -3/+5You are going to spend the rest of your life getting ***** service, because you are a cheap ass.
      • Screwy1138, on 08/01/2008, -0/+2What you are saying is a great theory but it's not how the world works.
      • scorpo55, on 08/01/2008, -0/+1Inf69, it would help if you could explain what you consider a "decent tip", both as a percentage of the bill, and the average of the decent tips you receive. Then perhaps you could also explain what you consider "GREAT SERVICE".
      • insomniac8400, on 08/02/2008, -0/+1A decent tip is paying your bill before leaving.
    • Disillusion, on 08/01/2008, -4/+7Here's my normal experience. I look younger than I am, so waiting staff usually assumes I'm a bad tipper and thus they make little to no effort to serve me. Then when I want to give little to no tip for the sub-par service (and thus completing their self-fulfilling prophecy), my girlfriend or anyone else I'm with flips the hell out about how horrible it is to be a bad tipper even when the service is crappy because that person makes $2.13 per hour. Someone always has a story about how they worked as a waiter/waitress... blah blah they need tips.

      It is a broken system and needs to be changed. The workers do deserve to get a certain amount even if they're not having the best night. But at the same time, the customer shouldn't have to feel like the scum of the earth for not tipping. Tips should be reserved for those that go above and beyond and give you excellent service only.
      • lnf69, on 08/01/2008, -5/+2You've obviously never left a good tip and then returned to the same place.

        The whole 'I look young' excuse is good for the first time. Leave a good tip, (> 15%).

        All good to great servers will remember you!!! And you will get good to great treatment regularly.

        Listen to your girlfriend. (Probably a good habit in general.)
      • Disillusion, on 08/01/2008, -0/+6I do tip well (20%+)... my point was that I feel bullied into doing so. It should not be that way. I also enjoy going to new and different places. I shouldn't have to go to a place and tip excessively 50 times before I get good service.
      • lnf69, on 08/01/2008, -1/+2Yes you are right that it is unfair.

        Although '50 times' is exaggerating what I said. It will only take once to be remembered in any decent place, be it bar or restaurant.

        Plus, the fact that you look young gives you an advantage that the rest of us do not enjoy. So things even out, I guess.
      • Disillusion, on 08/01/2008, -0/+1It was perhaps a slight exaggeration, but the places I do frequent have so many people working there that it would take quite a few times for people to notice and then remember. I can't remember the last time I had the same waiter or waitress twice.
    • cvindustries, on 08/01/2008, -0/+5Finally, some (apparently not so) common sense.
    • scorpo55, on 08/01/2008, -0/+7My understanding has always been that tips should not reflect food quality, merely the quality of service provided by the server. If you tip poorly because of poor food, you're essentially screwing the server because of the cook or chef. You're epecially screwing them if they're making extra trips to the kitchen to pick up re-done dishes for you.

      Talking to the manager, rather than leaving a poor tip, would very likely be more effective and also free. That said, I hate tipping and would like it abolished.
    • shackleton1, on 08/01/2008, -1/+3That's dumb. There are lots of places where you don't tip. You get great service from those places for being a regular customer. You don't need to tip to be appreciated. Bringing business is enough.
  • Vic333, on 08/01/2008, -3/+7Now the US needs to follow suit. However, the food service industry has a very powerful lobby and I highly doubt it would pass. I'm sure it would mean more tax revenue, though, since a great percentage of tips are not declared.
    • insomniac8400, on 08/01/2008, -3/+1Are you saying every waiter and waitress is guilty of tax fraud? Looks like our tipping system works well.
  • Ganthiel, on 08/01/2008, -4/+33I'll just take this opportunity to remind all of the Americans here that the stuff you hear about servers only making $2.19 per hour or whatever is *****. Minimum wage in the United States is $6.55 per hour. An employer is allowed to pay a "tipped employee" less than that, but if the tips do not bring the employee up to at least $6.55/hour, the employer is required to make up the difference.

    So, if you get bad service, stiff without guilt!
    • frostbyt, on 08/01/2008, -7/+7Always.

      I tip 15% for exceptional service. 10% for ok service and nothing for bad service.
      • insomniac8400, on 08/01/2008, -6/+10You should tip 5% for exceptional service and nothing when they are just doing their job. Tips are for things outside their job. Like tying your shoe for you or wiping your face with a napkin. Bringing drinks and your food are required in order for the restaurant to operate. That is what they are already paid to do.
      • JPollet85, on 08/01/2008, -4/+0you're a ***** tipper
    • letuescarpe, on 08/01/2008, -1/+5Ganthiel, has this law that you speak of come into effect recently (in the past 5 years or so)? Because when I waited tables, I made much less than the standard minimum wage, and my boss *NEVER* made up the difference. There was no way that my check ever averaged out to the standard minimum wage.

      What you're describing sounds like a great improvement over what it was like to wait tables in the past. I'm just surprised I never heard about it.

      • Ganthiel, on 08/01/2008, -1/+3I'm pretty sure it was at least 10 years ago that I first noticed it. If you have a job, go read that labor law poster that's in your breakroom, or somewhere else where it's readily visible to employees. The section about minimum wage explains this.

      • mike17032, on 08/01/2008, -1/+4Nope, that law is very old. Sounds like you got shafted.


      • Screwy1138, on 08/01/2008, -0/+3Yes, this law is as old as the 'tipped employee' minimum wage. You got robbed.
      • mikeywings, on 08/02/2008, -0/+0Indeed, the law has been around.

        From the Department of Labor website:

        "What is the minimum wage for workers who receive tips?

        An employer may pay a tipped employee not less than $2.13 an hour in direct wages if that amount plus the tips received equal at least the federal minimum wage, the employee retains all tips and the employee customarily and regularly receives more than $30 a month in tips. If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference."

        And, the website:

        http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/q-a.htm
    • srondizzle, on 08/01/2008, -4/+3You have no idea what you're talking about. Serving minimum wage is about $3.40 an hour. Look up the law because you're absolutely incorrect.
      • Ganthiel, on 08/01/2008, -1/+2Like I said in another reply, read the minimum wage poster that's posted in your job's breakroom.

        If you don't have a job, you can see a sample poster here:

        http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/regs/compliance/posters ...

      • perogi21, on 08/01/2008, -0/+2When I was putting myself through school in AZ, our wage was 2.13 per hour. (1990s)
      • senortaco, on 08/01/2008, -1/+4I used to work for a payroll company. Ganthiel is correct. The employer is required to make up the difference. There is a federal minimum wage but the minimum wage set by the state in which you are working takes precedence .
      • pockiez, on 08/01/2008, -3/+3All this may be true, but that doesn't mean it happens. I made 3.15 an hour, and no matter how many people I served, I got whatever tips were left after they were split + 3.15/hr. Nothing was added if it was a slow night. Never.
    • JoeHammer, on 08/01/2008, -0/+2You are wrong. End of story Ganthiel. Even on the link you posted, you failed to read the entire site.

      http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/q-a.htm

      Here is what you were looking for. Feel free to read the part that says:

      An employer may pay a tipped employee not less than $2.13 an hour in direct wages if that amount plus the tips received equal at least the federal minimum wage, the employee retains all tips and the employee customarily and regularly receives more than $30 a month in tips. If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.

      Now, does ANY employer "make up the difference?" No. Why is this? Because they aren't forced to because servers never claim the right amount of tips made. Why you ask? Because we are taxed on everything we claim. Therefore, tipped employees are always taxed MORE at the end of the year. Its a vicious cycle, but its the truth.

      You wouldn't let your mother cook you a great meal, serve it to you, and then clean up the kitchen without telling her thank you. Just as you shouldn't let someone else serve you without making it worth their while. And btw, saying 'your an awesome server/you did an awesome job" doesn't cut it. If you like me, give me money so I give you that same service next time.

      I hate assholes like you that think they know what its like to be a server.
    • catesbysimpson, on 08/01/2008, -1/+2Right, required to. But the restaurant often decides to declare tips for you. I remember several times I had upwards of 80 dollars declared for me on my paycheck, when I know for a fact I didn't make half of that. Illegal maybe, but what proof do I have? I can't think of one time I made over my 2.15 on a paycheck.
    • csaw, on 08/02/2008, -0/+1Restaurants also frequently require servers to tip out the rest of the staff. That comes out of a server's pocket whether they get tipped or not. So, when you stiff, you should feel guilty. Because now did that server not only make no money, but lost money, and had to put up with you for however long you were there for. And usually people who don't tip are not very pleasant people.
  • pintomp3, on 08/01/2008, -2/+11currently they are allowed to pay below the minimum and use the tips to make up the difference? that's pretty messed up.
    • mike17032, on 08/01/2008, -6/+2Why is it different than any other commision based job?
      • pintomp3, on 08/01/2008, -1/+8how many commission based jobs are 100% commission? every sales person i know has a salary + commission.
  • frostbyt, on 08/01/2008, -5/+13Down with tipping. I used to work with dept heads of one of the biggest restaurant management groups on the east coast. Let me tell you just one of the "higher ups" pay checks could easily cover 60+ employees making $30 an hour. These management groups get between 2% and 4% of sales from a restaurant. So the next time a restaurant manager tells you they can't afford to pay their employees a fair wage.....they are lying.

  • mth785, on 08/01/2008, -12/+17I hate tipping. I don't get tips, why should anyone else.
    • Lasereth, on 08/01/2008, -4/+6Because you probably make more than $2.15 an hour which is what most waiters make.
    • perogi21, on 08/01/2008, -5/+9Here's a tip. You are a douchebag.
    • blizzardice, on 08/02/2008, -0/+1Because if I am the one delivering your pizza, no one can see what I do with it in my car.
  • frostbyt, on 08/01/2008, -6/+26Some waiters think 20% is the new standard. I say if you think taking my order and delivering my food is worth 20% you have lost your mind.

    15% for great service
    10% for average service
    Nothing for bad service
    • cawpin, on 08/01/2008, -0/+4While I agree that the "standard" tip is still 15%, I'll give 20-25% if the service is outstanding. I can't remember the last time I didn't leave ANY tip, but I often only leave 10% for service that wasn't up to par.
      • frostbyt, on 08/01/2008, -0/+8The trouble is not a lot of waiters even do the standard to get the 15%. Most of the time I get "Watcha havin?" "Here is your food" "Anything else"

        That is not exceptional service. That is average.
      • JoeHammer, on 08/01/2008, -1/+1Agreed. You shouldn't be tipped on how well you take an order, you should be tipped on the experience you provide for your guests.

        15% is great if you could get it all the time. Luckily I do get 20-40% often to make up for the (read: stereotypical) brits and blacks who don't tip no matter what you do.
    • npsquire1, on 08/01/2008, -2/+1If you've ever worked in a restaurant, you realize that managing 4 tables at once, is not as easy as it initially appears. Trying to keep 16 people happy at once is not the easiest task to perform, much less gracefully. I politely ask you to reconsider how hard some of these waiters work.
      • charliebucketts, on 08/02/2008, -0/+1If you want a tip from these tight ***** you have to DAZZLE them. Try juggling or card tricks. You might get a biscuit.
    • drewerdy, on 08/14/2008, -0/+1you really should rethink your "15% is a good tip thought"! I work in a restaurant and if we do not have our tips above 18.2% average at lunch and 18.5% average at dinner by the end of our companies quarter they fire those servers that did not meet the requirement. 20% is the new standard, you really need to think about getting out of the 70's where that was alright, its 20% now and that should be noted by anyone who eats in a restaurant.
  • clogmoney, on 08/01/2008, -0/+10As a recent visitor to the US I tipped everywhere. Most of the waitresses we spoke to told us they were getting around $2/3 an hour, however most of them also said that with tips they could make a lot of money. One told us they made $360 working one shift, and wanted to work in a nightclub where they could easily make $1000 a night.

    Now I have done bar and service work in the U.K and believe me you come away happy with £5 pounds in tips at the end of the night. The most I have ever taken home in tips was £20 pounds and that was helped considerably by finding a tenner on the floor. The job is also hard work and I say it's right that in the UK at least minimum wage is enforced for people in the service industry because tips just don't come that often.
    • mike17032, on 08/01/2008, -0/+4Well thats not the case here, because waiting tables is one of the best paying jobs that someone with no other skills can get.

      Also if they end up making less than min wage after their tips, the employer has to make up the difference already.
      • fandyboy, on 08/01/2008, -0/+4That's one good difference in between the UK and US, we in the UK generally are not obliged to tip bar staff for pouring a goddam drink. When I was in New York, you had to.
  • TheDiceMan, on 08/01/2008, -2/+17amazing how restaurants and employers pay ***** but its the customer who picks up the slack for their pay - like its the guests fault that their waiter gets paid in sand and rubbles.

    after being in the industry, i don't think i've met one fellow worker
    who blames the management for their pay - carte blanche to rip patrons to ***** - a ***** state of affairs if you ask me.
  • BohicaTwentyTwo, on 08/01/2008, -3/+7Oy, Nigel, why are me chips a quid more than yesterday?
    • TheLD, on 08/01/2008, -1/+1I am from the UK and have never heard of anyone called Nigel.
      • BohicaTwentyTwo, on 08/01/2008, -0/+2I guess I just watch too much So You Think You can Dance.




        ...what?
  • AndreiOttawa, on 08/01/2008, -2/+12Did anyone notice that the minimum wage in UK will be raised to 5.73 pounds? That's $11/hour. And US is making a big deal about raise to a lousy $6.50.

    • jeltringham, on 08/01/2008, -9/+4That's because we aren't socialists.
      • AndreiOttawa, on 08/01/2008, -1/+8Good for you! Remember this next time you have a medical procedure that your insurance company does not want to cover... or when you are old, have no money, no pension and have to wash dishes to pay for food.
      • robcornelius, on 08/01/2008, -1/+4its also because your currency is next to worthless
      • SteeleJK, on 08/01/2008, -0/+3So you pay for you own police service? What if the building where you live catches on fire, are you going to call your own personal fire brigade? Well if not, STFU.
    • cawpin, on 08/01/2008, -4/+5That's because the UK pound is somehow still considered to be $2 US. It simply isn't. Everything in the UK is numerically the same price. The pound doesn't get you double of anything.
      • skidooer, on 08/01/2008, -1/+7"The pound doesn't get you double of anything."

        What about when buying dollars?
    • reaper527, on 08/01/2008, -8/+6thats because here in the states we see the flaw of raising the minimum wage. the following cycle happens.

      1. minimum wage goes up
      2. employers have to pay employees more, and raise the cost of their goods proportionally to accommodate the raise.
      3. the minimum wage workers are in the same position, as they absolutely make more, but relatively make the same
      4. middle class people don't make more to offset the increase, and are hurt by the minimum wage increase as their wage is now closer to minimum wage, and as such they lose purchasing power
      • Screwy1138, on 08/01/2008, -1/+3Ack! Logic! Get it away! away! Go AWAY!
      • MrARPA, on 08/01/2008, -1/+2That's the logic that was used by opponents of the minimum wage in the UK. Then it was introduced and nothing untoward happened ...
      • korvan504521, on 08/01/2008, -0/+1subway sandwhich in england: 3.50 pounds.
        same sandwhich in US. 3.50 dollars.

        hmm.
      • MrARPA, on 08/02/2008, -0/+2>same sandwhich in US. 3.50 dollars. hmm.

        The minimum wage in the UK is a fairly recent thing so massive price inflation would have stuck out like a sore thumb. There is no backlash against its introduction because it has not caused the problems you imply in your "Subway" test - blame Subway if you want, but don't blame the minimum wage.
  • letuescarpe, on 08/01/2008, -3/+8It always bugs me a little when people start bashing servers for accepting, or even expecting, tips, because they make "minimum wage" and we shouldn't have to give them any more than that. Just to be clear, in the US, there's a VAST difference between the standard minimum wage and the server's minimum wage. I waited tables in college, and the minimum wage that I received from my employer was $2.63/hour, I believe. Most of that money gets eaten up by taxes, too. Customers are expected to pay the rest of the server's salary in tips.

    That being said, if I can reasonably assume that the person who just rang up my coffee or sandwich is getting paid the "real" minimum wage or higher, and isn't considered a server (i.e., makes more than $2.63/hour), I refuse to tip them. Basically if they don't come out from behind the counter, I don't tip. But the people taking you order and bringing you your food at your table deserve a few bucks - it's the only way they make any money.
  • charliebucketts, on 08/01/2008, -3/+6More power to restaurant workers. I used to be a busboy. We worked like slaves for, on average, 4.75 an hour. In 1997 dollars of course. Since what you make depends on what the restaurant brings in, on slow nights you might get 25.00 for 8 hours in tips and 2.00 an hour in wages.
    • perogi21, on 08/01/2008, -2/+14.75 in 1997 dollars is 3.50 in 2008 dollars.
    • korvan504521, on 08/01/2008, -0/+2what do you expect for an unskilled job? I got minimum wage driving combines, so I busted my balls and went to school to get an engineering degree.
      • charliebucketts, on 08/02/2008, -0/+0By that rationale, people who are not smart enough to figure out abstract math don't deserve a living wage.
  • jeltringham, on 08/01/2008, -6/+3I like tipping culture - it's one of few times where you get to make a direct impact with customer feedback.

    Hopefully this doesn't happen stateside - can you imagine the unemployment it would cause, and how slow service would become?
    • TheLD, on 08/01/2008, -0/+2The people will still be tipped, they will just get a higher base wage. When I go with a few friends to a restaurant and spend around £100, they usually get a £15 tip. If they serve 5 tables, that's around £70 an hour. That's more than a doctor gets.
      • charliebucketts, on 08/02/2008, -0/+0A doctor in the states sees two to four patients an hour. The server in your anecdote handed out a hundred pints at five bucks each. That's a lot of work too.
      • TheLD, on 08/02/2008, -0/+1I was talking about a restaurant
    • shackleton1, on 08/01/2008, -0/+2Actually, all it will mean is that when you tip, all of that money goes to the waiter or waitress, as opposed to management taking two thirds of it.
  • powatom, on 08/01/2008, -3/+9Employers should pay their staff AT LEAST the minimum wage, AND allow them to keep their tips. There is no rationale behind forcing staff to 'make up' their wages with tips. The excuse that tipping forces staff to give good service is wrong on so many levels that it's hard to know where to begin. If they were happy, well paid employees, then they'd be giving good service or they'd be sacked - just like any other industry in the entire world.

    This is a good move - evidence that our government isn't completely lost yet. Kind of.
  • FeloniusMonkey, on 08/01/2008, -2/+6It may be a step in the right direction, but it certainly won't help prevent dislexics from spitting in our tips jars.
  • avonalt, on 08/01/2008, -1/+23I never got the reason for tipping a percentage. Are plates with lobsters on them harder to carry than plates with chicken?
    • lnf69, on 08/01/2008, -13/+6If you can't afford 15%+ for tips, you should choose a cheaper restaurant.
    • jerrycan, on 08/01/2008, -1/+3Conversly, a $3 bowl of soup and $1.50 for a cup of coffee. pretty heavy. I think if staff doesn't get minimum wage, it should all be "service compris" to a $10 max per person (to cover the lobster scenario) and all fully under the umbrella of government taxation. Everything else should be tipping for only exceptional service, and of course only if you want.
    • danielcmetz, on 08/01/2008, -1/+1Actually, yes, very much so. Bad example. Good point.
  • mike17032, on 08/01/2008, -4/+3Of course now the price of meals will go up.

    Stupid idea, tipping is fine. Either way you would be paying for it, at least this way you have some say.
    • znicket, on 08/01/2008, -3/+1But you get the sense of obligation - and the guilt trip from the crappy waiter whom you didn't want to tip.

      This is melodrama I want to avoid when I go out to eat.
  • scorpo55, on 08/01/2008, -3/+5I think restaurant tipping sucks because there's such a poor relationship between the cost of a meal (or bill for a table), and the service that was provided. Oh, I ordered the steak and lobster and you now feel you've provided twice as much service? Don't even get me started on wine costs.
    • lnf69, on 08/01/2008, -10/+3Cheap people should eat at food bars and fast food places.
    • scorpo55, on 08/01/2008, -2/+3Ah, the unjustified sense of entitlement of a server. I hope you don't sprain your wrist carrying that oh so heavy lobster as you provide all that extra service!
  • LordDshyzL, on 08/01/2008, -10/+4If you dont have enough money to tip then most likely you dont have enough money to eat out or deliver. If a complete stranger is going to drive food to your house for your consumption you better have respect and tip them or dont order the food, If you feel you dont have to tip, dont worry we know who you are, and your food always has a special present in it for you.
    • kayfouroh, on 08/01/2008, -3/+4Who are you to tell people where they should and shouldn't eat?
      • musicpyrite, on 08/01/2008, -4/+1People can eat whatever they want, provided they can afford it. If you can't afford it (meal price + tip) don't buy it.
      • kayfouroh, on 08/01/2008, -0/+4Then why am I paying for the food at all? If I go to Subway, am I tipping them for making my sandwich or is it implied that for $5, I get a footlong sandwich made for me.
      • LordDshyzL, on 08/03/2008, -0/+1yeah if they get in their car and drive ten miles roundtrip, waste their gas that isn't paid for then yes other wise you are whats wrong with this country and yeah if you cannot afford to tip then dont eat out, its as easy as that cause otherwise- kayfouroh - you have eaten spit, cum ,or feces on your food for the way you think, we bring you the food ,***** with us and catch ecoli- have fun
  • tcpip4lyfe, on 08/01/2008, -2/+10You can tell the people who have worked in restaurants and who having from these comments. For those who haven't, working in a busy restaurant has to be one of the *****, underpaid, stressful jobs you can have. I have no problem with tipping because I've been there. People that haven't worked tip based jobs generally are the ones that have problems with tips.
    • mike17032, on 08/01/2008, -0/+7I have never worked in food service and I never will, way to ***** hard for my liking.

      I tip well though, because I like getting good service.
    • avonalt, on 08/01/2008, -4/+6Working at a gas station probably sucks. Should we tip gas station attendants?
      How about construction workers?
      Janitors?
      Factory line workers?
      The guys that pump septic tanks?

      A lot of jobs can suck. If you don't like doing a job don't go into that field..

      Honestly all you do is take an order, bring it back to the kitchen, bring people drinks, bring people food, bring people the bill, and be yelled at by chefs when you bring back a bad dish. It's not that ***** hard, and if you're good and work in a good restaurant you can pull in a decent wage.

      Not bad for being competely unskilled labor.
      • lnf69, on 08/01/2008, -7/+2Actually YOU should try getting a social life. Then you will see the value of tipping.
    • perogi21, on 08/01/2008, -3/+2QFT.
    • AnimalTaglits, on 08/01/2008, -0/+3Here's a tip: Get a better job.
  • OdinThor, on 08/01/2008, -9/+1 NICE GUY EDDIE
    Okay, everybody cough up green for
    the little lady.

    Everybody whips out a buck, and throws it on the table.
    Everybody, that is, except Mr. White.

    NICE GUY EDDIE
    C'mon, throw in a buck.

    MR. WHITE
    Uh-uh. I don't tip.

    NICE GUY EDDIE
    Whaddaya mean you don't tip?

    MR. WHITE
    I don't believe in it.

    NICE GUY EDDIE
    You don't believe in tipping?

    MR. PINK
    (laughing)
    I love this kid, he's a madman,
    this guy.

    MR. BLONDE
    Do you have any idea what these
    ladies make? They make *****.

    MR. WHITE
    Don't give me that. She don't
    make enough money, she can quit.

    Everybody laughs.

    NICE GUY EDDIE
    I don't even know a Jew who'd have
    the balls to say that. So let's
    get this straight. You never ever
    tip?

    MR. WHITE
    I don't tip because society says I
    gotta. I tip when somebody
    deserves a tip. When somebody
    really puts forth an effort, they
    deserve a little something extra.
    But this tipping automatically,
    that *****'s for the birds. As far
    as I'm concerned, they're just
    doin their job.

    MR. BLUE
    Our girl was nice.

    MR. WHITE
    Our girl was okay. She didn't do
    anything special.

    MR. BLONDE
    What's something special, take ya
    in the kitchen and suck your dick?

    They all laugh.

    NICE GUY EDDIE
    I'd go over twelve percent for
    that.

    MR. WRITE
    Look, I ordered coffee. Now we've
    been here a long ***** time, and
    she's only filled my cup three
    times. When I order coffee, I
    want it filled six times.

    MR. BLONDE
    What if she's too busy?

    MR. WHITE
    The words "too busy" shouldn't be
    in a waitress's vocabulary.

    NICE GUY EDDIE
    Excuse me, Mr. White, but the last
    thing you need is another cup of
    coffee.

    They all laugh.

    MR. WHITE
    These ladies aren't starvin to
    death. They make minimum wage.
    When I worked for minimum wage, I
    wasn't lucky enough to have a job
    that society deemed tipworthy.

    NICE GUY EDDIE
    Ahh, now we're getting down to it.
    It's not just that he's a cheap
    bastard--

    MR. ORANGE
    --It is that too--

    NICE GUY EDDIE
    --It is that too. But it's also
    he couldn't get a waiter job. You
    talk like a pissed off dishwasher:
    "***** those ***** and their
    ***** tips."

    MR. BLONDE
    So you don't care that they're
    counting on your tip to live?

    Mr. White rubs two of his fingers together.

    MR. WHITE
    Do you know what this is? It's
    the world's smallest violin,
    playing just for the waitresses.

    MR. BLONDE
    You don't have any idea what
    you're talking about. These
    people bust their ass. This
    is a hard job.

    MR. WHITE
    So's working at McDonald's, but
    you don't feel the need to tip
    them. They're servin ya food, you
    should tip em. But no, society
    says tip these guys over here, but
    not those guys over there. That's
    *****.

    MR. ORANGE
    They work harder than the kids at
    McDonald's.

    MR. WHITE
    Oh yeah, I don't see them cleaning
    fryers.

    MR. BROWN
    These people are taxed on the tips
    they make. When you stiff 'em,
    you cost them money.

    MR. BLONDE
    Waitressing is the number one
    occupation for female non-college
    graduates in this country. It's
    the one jab basically any woman
    can get, and make a living on.
    The reason is because of tips.

    MR. WHITE
    ***** all that.

    They all laugh.

    MR. WHITE
    Hey, I'm very sorry that the
    government taxes their tips.
    That's ***** up. But that ain't
    my fault. it would appear that
    waitresses are just one of the
    many groups the government *****
    in the ass on a regular basis.
    You show me a paper says the
    government shouldn't do that, I'll
    sign it. Put it to a vote, I'll
    vote for it. But what I won't do
    is play ball. And this non-
    college ***** you're telling
    me, I got two words for that:
    "Learn to ***** type." Cause if
    you're expecting me to help out
    with the rent, you're in for a big
    ***** surprise.

    MR. ORANGE
    He's convinced me. Give me my
    dollar back.

    Everybody laughs. Joe's comes back to the table.

    JOE
    Okay ramblers, let's get to
    rambling. Wait a minute, who
    didn't throw in?

    MR. ORANGE
    Mr. White.

    JOE
    (to Mr. Orange)
    Mr. White?
    (to Mr. White)
    Why?

    MR. ORANGE
    He don't tip.

    JOE
    (to Mr. Orange)
    He don't tip?
    (to Mr. White)
    You don't tip? Why?

    MR. ORANGE
    He don't believe in it.

    JOE
    (to Mr. Orange)
    He don't believe in it?
    (to Mr. White)
    You don't believe in it?

    MR. ORANGE
    Nope.

    JOE
    (to Mr. Orange)
    Shut up!
    (to Mr. White)
    Cough up the buck, ya cheap
    bastard, I paid for your goddamn
    breakfast.

    MR. WHITE
    Because you paid for the
    breakfast, I'm gonna tip.
    Normally I wouldn't.

    JOE
    Whatever. Just throw in your
    dollar, and let's move.
    (to Mr. Blonde)
    See what I'm dealing with here.
    Infants. I'm ***** dealin with
    infants.

    • OdinThor, on 08/01/2008, -0/+0Sorry. Names must have changed from the script to the movie (or I had a bad source) ... as in the movie the one uttering the lines of Mr. White is actually Mr. Pink ... and Mr. Blonde's lines belong to Mr. White.

      Here is the scene in the movie:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgBGRfSvfxY


  • reaper527, on 08/01/2008, -7/+3its amazing that this article doesn't mention any of the negative aspects of implementing this. what a biased article. this law will

    1. raise prices to the consumer by making restaurant prices skyrocket
    2. make restaurants hire less, as it will be to expensive to have alot of employees

    i don't agree with the "not making enough? i'll raise the minimum pay so you can make nothing" logic.

    another mistake by socialist europe
    • shackleton1, on 08/01/2008, -0/+4Restaurants cover cost + profit, and they will continue to do so.

      It will raise prices if you are the kind of person who doesn't tip. If you're the kind of person who does tip, it will lower prices.

      Why should the generous subsidise the misers?
      • reaper527, on 08/01/2008, -1/+1actually, you have it wrong. they will still receive tips, the difference is that they will be getting this in addition to a higher wage. the higher wage will result in the restaurant raising the cost of the meals, to cover cost.

        everyones cost will go up as a result. those who tip still will, except their 15% will be more than it already is.
    • Pic0, on 08/01/2008, -0/+1restaurants already raised their prices. eating out is not reasonable any more unless you go to a place that doesn't have waiters
  • LogicBomB, on 08/01/2008, -2/+18My Bottom Line:

    I don't care whether the server is paid top dollar or nothing at all. You give me good service you get 15%. If you give me great service I'll bump it up a bit. You give me attitude, spend your shift talking with your buddies, and generally ignore me or screw everything up, you get no tip. Simple as that.

    I am absolutely dumbfounded at the amount of people who think that 15% is the bottom line you NEED to give even for ***** service and it goes up from there. No. You want a tip, do a good job. A tip is insentive and a reward for above-par service. That is why it is there and I use it as such.
  • kayfouroh, on 08/01/2008, -1/+8The way I see it is that the waiter/waitress went into the job knowing that some people will tip, some won't. They knew they were going in making terrible hourly rates. It is just plain wrong of them to expect customers to tip. It is wrong of the employer to expect customers to help pay the servers (on top of the food prices, which are not cheap these days). No one forces these people to make $2/hr. Don't like relying on tips? Get a new job.

    Do I tip? Of course, I don't ***** with people who handle my food.
  • whitetrashpeg, on 08/01/2008, -1/+4(I'm speaking of the US here:)I wonder if some of you realize that "paying under the table" i.e. in cash with no contributions from the employer into workmans comp/social security is common practice in the service industry. THAT means many of your service people have zero benefits PLUS below poverty wages - Burger King employees make better wages and benefits than most waitstaff and bartenders at privately owned food and alcohol venues. Given that basic analogy: where do you typically get better service or at least a more pleasant server? In my experience it usually isn't Burger King.
    By the way a dollar or two is usually OK for a light meal or a couple of cocktails with most waitstaff - it is better than no tip at all. We are used to people being too cheap to tip above or even at 15%. So, if you are too cheap to wrestle a $1 bill out of your cobwebbed wallet, go to McDonald's where you don't have to, you tight jackass!
    • Scottc320, on 08/01/2008, -1/+1Logic summed it up. If you give good service you get money, if you don't, you don't get money. If you don't wanna work hard for your money, get another job.
  • lnf69, on 08/01/2008, -12/+5To all you losers who don't like tipping:

    If you ever have the good fortune to out grow your four-eyed geeky ways, you will start doing things like dating, being assigned the responsibility of entertaining business associates, and other 'social' oriented activities.

    That is when you will learn the true power that tipping gives you, and you will be able to understand how much better it is that you have that power.
    • yohnstoppable, on 08/01/2008, -2/+2What does that have to do with anything? Nice job assuming everyone here is a nasaly voiced 4 eyed geek, btw.

      In your scenario, if you don't do a good job entertaining business associates, then you don't get their business. Likewise if a waitress sucks at her job, she won't get my tip.

      See the point now?
      • perogi21, on 08/01/2008, -2/+2appears that you have hit a nerve with this 4 eyed nerd.
      • lnf69, on 08/01/2008, -2/+2No, sorry but you missed my point.

        I'm talking about the power you have as a customer. If you use this power properly then you will always feel secure that when you have an important occasion to organize, where it is your responsibility to entertain someone, like a date or a client or a business associate, or you Mom's birthday, that the occasion will go really really well.

        That power is yours. If you've do not regularly receive good to great service, the problem is yours, not the servers. I am talking GOOD to GREAT service. Not adequate. And if you do not care about this, then just keep stiffing the servers where ever you go. No big deal. You will almost always get what you pay for.
      • yohnstoppable, on 08/01/2008, -2/+2"I am talking GOOD to GREAT service. Not adequate. And if you do not care about this, then just keep stiffing the servers where ever you go. No big deal. You will almost always get what you pay for"

        The problem with your logic is you tip after you're done eating, not before. I really don't think you have any idea what you're talking about.

        Tipping isn't getting what you pay for. It's paying for what you've gotten. The exact opposite of your bizarro logic.
      • lnf69, on 08/04/2008, -0/+1I enjoy the irony of obtuse people telling me I don't know what I am talking about.

        In order for you to understand my point, you must be able to retain ALL of what I said, and not just the parts you feel safe disputing.

        It's true that you tip at the end of the meal. It is also true that you tip and the end of the meal the second time, the third time, the fourth time and every time you go back. It's in the repetition, that's where your power as a customer lies.

        Think of a foreach iteration. Every time you go to the same place, I promise you, you will be remembered by HOW YOU TIP.
  • snotrokit, on 08/01/2008, -1/+6LogicBomb is dead on. I consider myself a good tipper, and I appreciate good service. If you are good at what you do, have a good attitude, prompt, courteous, etc. the tip goes up. Service blows, tip goes down. I usually start @ 20% for wait staff etc, as I know the job is tough, and they are probably making a whole lot less per hour than they should.
    • jerrycan, on 08/01/2008, -0/+4Hmmm. If you do the math, I think you'll find being a waiter is a pretty good gig. Just saying...
  • shitdick057, on 08/01/2008, -3/+6 I get tipped, and no I don't claim them. just taking what the man owes me from the stupid income tax. Also, its just nice to tip. don't be so niggardly with your money man!