What is Digg?218 Comments
- NMRgentleman, on 06/20/2009, -7/+124Can I just point out that "The Air Force has a history of balking at buildings near the 2.9-million-acre flight-training range in Nevada, which makes up 41 percent of the Air Force's total training acres worldwide." So despite what the Digg headline is trying to imply, I kind of doubt the precise type of structure this is has much to do with their objection.
- PlanckTime, on 06/20/2009, -14/+109Actually no. The Air Force can't just "train" anywhere. By the nature of their business they need space. Sometimes a lot of it. Three main reasons.
One - They drop bombs. Probably don't want to get too close to that one.
Two - They fly through the air. It is much easier to hide a secret new tank on the ground than it is to hide a secret new plane in the air. Space is needed to keep the new technology out of the line of sight.
Three - Much like 2, the Air Force is the most technologically advanced of all the services. They work closely with NASA and are also the branch in charge of things like missile command and all sorts of new satellite and aerial warfare technology. They have a greater need for space and secrecy than all of the other branches.
Finally, their need for space is also a fairly specific one. They need open, relatively flat areas with low to zero populations so that they can train in both secrecy and safety. Unfortunately a lot of what they need is the same sort of space that is needed by things like solar farms. Your comment is idiotic. It would be easier to ask why the solar farms can't just go get built someplace else.
"Or do they just want to block progress?"
In case no one ever told you the military's primary function is to defend the Constitution and to obey the orders given it by their commanders (civilian and military) in support of the same. Their notion of progress involves finding better ways to conduct that defense with fewer deaths on our side. In other words, they are trying to defend your ungrateful ass and stopping progress is not something care about either way. Their issue lies with the impediment to doing their job properly. They don't mind the solar farm as noted by the fact that they have one themselves. They also suggested alternate locations that they have no problem with. Once their training and testing is no longer an issue they are fine with it.
Try thinking through things before you denigrate those who have dedicated their lives to defending our country. You are spitting on people better than yourself. People who give up their lives in a very real way and sacrifice for the sake of an increasingly ungrateful nation. Even those who do not die in the service frequently spend a lot of time away from families and friends. They miss watching their children grow up not because they wanted to work some OT but because they are serving in a country on the other side of the world. Something they have no say over. Something they are not doing for themselves. You need to step back and be grateful for what they do for you. At least show them the respect of not venting your stupidity on them. They have a far more legitimate claim to the land than the solar farm does. The military would be just as happy if you decided to live somewhere else and not be bothered by their efforts on your behalf. - pinkflyingpig, on 06/20/2009, -17/+94What a waste of time and resource! Nellis Air Force Base should speak up 18 months ago if they had an issue with the Solar power plant. The U.S Government seems to have some difficulty to coordinate its needs and focus on the priority.
- impei, on 06/20/2009, -49/+119Energy independence = no wars for oil = reduced military funding
- Nintendesert, on 06/20/2009, -7/+65"But Belote said the solar plant would compromise classified aspects of the Air Force's training range and would interfere with radar. "
"SolarReserve officials "did a lot of [research] with publicly available tools," Belote said. "But when they came back for an official look the answer was, 'Man, that's still too close.' And because of the sensitivity [of information], I can't tell them why. . . . Unfortunately for them and us, there's stuff on the Nevada testing range we don't tell anyone about." Belote suggested they try another site, either 100 miles to the southeast or about 80 miles to the northeast, near the town of Mesquite."
Had the submitter or any one else actually read the article, you'd know why. - Krelas, on 06/20/2009, -7/+65I don't agree with the military on this decision, but Nellis Air Force base does contain Area 51, so that might have something to do with it.
- diskoh, on 06/20/2009, -3/+56My great aunt Judith. She's 86 and lives in a little Las Vegas suburb. She moved there from Florida about 20 years ago.
...you asked! - inactive, on 06/20/2009, -1/+47The USAF is a branch of the US Government. It probably took them 18 months just to find and fill out the proper forms to protest this place.
- DirtyVicar, on 06/20/2009, -0/+45Judith lives there.. don't you know anything?
- superflyy, on 06/20/2009, -4/+48Area 51
- DifferentAngle, on 06/20/2009, -4/+47The base was there first. There's a ton of desert - why do they have to build right next to the air force base?
- PlanckTime, on 06/20/2009, -7/+47"Moreover, the Nellis base boasts of its own photovoltaic panels -- the nation' largest solar photovoltaic power plant;"
Why is this written as though it is a bad thing? The issue the Air Force has with the new solar plant is not the tech but the location. There are classification issues. If the Air Force has their own, of course it will meet their classification standards. Why is this news? The Air Force has a legitimate need to protect its secrets. Secrets that help to keep this country safe. - Xaevier, on 06/20/2009, -8/+46Just open up Nuclear power plants, cheaper, very safe, very clean and a hell of a lot more efficient.
- Mutton, on 06/20/2009, -0/+36Judith
- getoffmybridge, on 06/20/2009, -0/+32When I was visiting my family in Nevada, I met one other person that lives there: Judith
- Porbeagle, on 06/20/2009, -3/+33Buried for obvious reasons. The military doesn't give a crap that it's a solar energy plant. They don't want any type of structure so close to their base. There's a reason they built the base way out in the desert and not right next to Los Angeles...
- borez, on 06/20/2009, -6/+35Maybe it has something to do with blinding pilots?
- LastDitchHero, on 06/20/2009, -2/+29Why is he getting dugg down? Even if you don't believe the crazy theories they do have the longest air strip in the world and it is widely believed that is where we reverse engineer other countries tech and even store Non-US aircraft for use in covert ops. I am pretty sure people would freak if they saw a Hind flying around.
- AirNike, on 06/20/2009, -0/+26Judith is hot.
- FuZi0nDET, on 06/20/2009, -0/+22Nellis is a pretty important base, I live in Vegas and you can see them doing maneuvers from time to time. They host Red Flag out of Nellis, which is like Top Gun on steroids. They bring in fighters from our allies and run live war games. It's pretty intense and from what I understand it's the closets the Air Force can get to actual combat experience. This is something very important that isn't classified, I'm sure there are other equally important programs out of Nellis that are.
- inactive, on 06/20/2009, -4/+26Nellis runs a lot of exercises every year. A lot of the flying is at night. I would imagine that all those mirrors could play hell with some of the sensors on the aircraft. The base was there first. The training is important. And the Air Force asked them to move the project 25 miles away? Why is that so bad? I'm all for solar power but there are going to be areas where they just won't be able to build the mirror farms. It will work out, states like Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, etc, have lots of unused space.
- inactive, on 06/20/2009, -2/+23PlanckTime, as a former member of the USAF all I can say is, Well Said.
- NMRgentleman, on 06/20/2009, -4/+23Indeed. It seems to me that it is hard to make a case to go solar over nuclear, except for the "feel good" aspect, at least when we're talking about giant power plants like this one. If you want to throw some panels on your roof, more power, ahem, to you.
But I really hate all these government measures that are mandating renewable energy and therefore higher electricity prices - while almost always excluding nuclear as a possibility. - freezo1994, on 06/20/2009, -9/+28who the hell lives in nevada anyway?
- yehaww, on 06/20/2009, -4/+22In addition to reflections, if that's a problem, what about an out of control aircraft crashing into the middle of a multi billion dollar solar array? Nobody wants that and the US military certainly doesn't want to be anywhere near that possibility.
- CIAVT, on 06/20/2009, -0/+18I believe Judith is a resident...
- Kumah, on 06/20/2009, -0/+18A hot gmilf named Judith
- NaziHatinChimp, on 06/20/2009, -7/+23It might be hard to pilot with all those materials reflecting light into your eyes. My best guess anyway.
- Nintendesert, on 06/20/2009, -1/+14Or the solar plant move locations like was already recommended.
- PhillyOC, on 06/20/2009, -2/+15You have just targeted yourself for termination.
- asgardshill, on 06/20/2009, -2/+14@CRCulver: Former O Brancher here. And although I'm probably in great danger of replying to a troll, I'm sorry you feel that way but I wouldn't trade my 12 years in the Canoe Club for all the gold in Fort Knox. And you are literally the first person I've ever encountered on Digg who claims to be a veteran but regrets serving.
No we're not supermen, just normal people trained to sometimes do important and even sometimes awesome things. - Intercon, on 06/20/2009, -1/+13If you are interested in the true costs of coal, you have to look at government subsidies, the costs of the health effects on the general population, and the costs (both monetary and environmental) of coal ash waste containment. The numbers you quote, while used as market indicators, fail to consider these costs.
I'm not personally opposed to nuclear power, but in this situation, a longer view is appropriate. - Ferretman, on 06/20/2009, -4/+14Actually they were there first, and what they're doing is important.
The solar guys need to move. - Syric, on 06/20/2009, -0/+10Well that's too bad and all, but it doesn't sound like it would be too terrible just to move even farther away from the base. I assume the Air Force has its reasons.
Does everything have to be a conspiracy on Digg? Seriously, the story can be summed up like this:
-We want to build a power plant here.
-Well, that's kinda close to an Air Force base. Build it over there instead.
-Okay.
-Actually, even further would be better.
-Hm. Okay. - inactive, on 06/20/2009, -4/+14Here on Digg, everything's a conspiracy and every corporation is evil.
- unconquerable, on 06/21/2009, -0/+10I'm from Reno, I know Judith!
- dsfjvhbd, on 06/20/2009, -2/+12Those materials are reflecting direct sunlight towards the tower, not towards airplanes. Elsewhere you see an image of the blue sky in the mirrors.
- darkstar949, on 06/20/2009, -0/+10@dsfjvhbd - Given the way that need to know works, I wouldn't at all be surprised about something like this happening as the people they are likely talking to may not even know why the site can't be built there. Also, project reviews like this would take some time to get routed around to the appropriate people who do have the need to know so something taking months to happen isn't a sign of some plan to block the project.
- Intercon, on 06/20/2009, -0/+10If you had even a basic understanding of the technology, you would realize that the article is discussing a form of solar technology that has little to do with photovoltaics or "solar panels." I'm all for less development, but calling the military good for the environment is a bit of a stretch.
- jesushchrist00, on 06/20/2009, -3/+12seriously, can't this company build this massive mirror field elsewhere or do they just want to interfere with the ability of the US Air Force to train?
- freezo1994, on 06/20/2009, -6/+14ya but im sure, the military wants to gets paid anyway without doing any war
- theonlywizdum, on 06/20/2009, -9/+17Are you really that stupid?
- Awsomo6, on 06/21/2009, -1/+9Its absurd how wasteful the air force is. My brother is in the air force and he was put in charge of emptying a warehouse full of computer equipment that they ordered and didn't actually need. Among the things he discarded were hundreds of miles of Cat-5 cables, several servers, 50 or 60 high quality routers, and countless random mouses and keyboards ect. The vast majority of the things that were thrown away were BRAND NEW.
It really is frustrating and depressing how wasteful the government is with our tax dollars =( - NMRgentleman, on 06/20/2009, -2/+9Um... the sun may not "run out," but the solar plants cost money to build and maintain. Same with everything else. Last I saw, coal produced electricity was averaging at around $0.04/kWh, with solar at $0.35/kWh, far more expensive.
- SystemicThought, on 06/20/2009, -0/+7Well the pilots shouldn't fly upside-down, then!
- postaldave, on 06/21/2009, -1/+8screw you and your historical accurate logic! this is digg damn it!
- rheaume, on 06/20/2009, -0/+7Yeah the military has a great history with the environment in Nevada..
/Nuclear testing killed it many times over - localzuk, on 06/20/2009, -1/+7They did move the project 25 miles away, that's the point. The USAF told them their original plan was too close, so they moved it. They then went through the process of trying to get planning approval etc... and the USAF turned around and said 'well, it's still too close' even though they were planning for a site which the USAF had pointed them at!
- fadeddragon, on 06/20/2009, -1/+7manzanitaz you know what you do with the waste? Easy you use Nuclear reprocessing to reuse it like Britain and France do.
- Okinsley, on 06/20/2009, -1/+7Well, the solar plant being built next to a MILITARY BASE so that may have something to do with it.
The article title makes it seem like we all have to go protest or something. -
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