What is Digg?79 Comments
- UrbanVoyeur, on 04/13/2008, -6/+39Seems like a lot of recyclable steel going to waste.
- Dzerzhinsky, on 04/13/2008, -2/+23Years ago marine biologists thought dumping millions of tires off the coast of Florida was a good idea. Ooops.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-02-17-flo ... - aussieNickuss, on 04/13/2008, -3/+23Artificial reefs might be good, but who the hell thought of dumping subway cars into the ocean in the first place? Steel is infinitely recyclable and has been since the start of the industrial revolution. People are just damn lazy!
- sloppychris, on 04/13/2008, -0/+14"Ok Johnson, we've got a ton of this old crap we don't need lying around, we can't just throw it away because that would look bad to the environmentalists. What are we going to do with it?"
- inactive, on 04/13/2008, -0/+13Where are the undersea pictures?
- tech70a, on 04/13/2008, -1/+13These "cars" are simply the stainless steel shells. Notice the extremely heavy running gears and decorative interiors have been stripped away, as have the "glass" windows and any other unsafe pieces. Stainless is very recyclable (and expensive)... so I also am perplexed as to why they don't find something else to drop in the water. In 100 years these will still be intact and will hopefully still be serving their intended purpose.
One of the largest refurbishers of subway cars in the US is in Hornell NY at the Alstom shops. We've got dozens of these exact cars sitting around in all stages of repair. To rebuild one they essentially replace every single part on these cars, from the screws that hold the ceilings in to the air tanks underneath. When the shells get so worn that they cannot be refurbed, essentially they "refurb" a brand new shell... in essence building an entirely new car. - SmokedL, on 04/13/2008, -0/+11Even if that is correct, it's only because of externalizing costs: The costs to the environment and to natural resources. Permanently destroying the steel by letting it rust away below water most certainly is more expensive in the long run.
The earths accessible mineral deposits are not infinite.
Strip mining mountains is not without cost to the environment.
Dumping asbestos is unlikely to be harmless.
The current status quo of use and dispose cannot be maintained indefinitely, we will run out of vital resources if it continues. When that happens the true cost of practices like this will become apparent. - inactive, on 04/13/2008, -2/+11I've heard for years from Marine Biologists that these artificial reefs are creating vibrant marine communities. This is very cool.
- linagee, on 04/13/2008, -0/+6I bet the fish love it because of all the gum under the seats they get to eat!
- rudy23, on 04/13/2008, -0/+6Hey fish need a place to pee too
- SpookyApplePie, on 04/13/2008, -0/+6Soon theres gonna be a subway just for fish hehe
- jwolcott, on 04/13/2008, -0/+5But fish don't like sandwiches.
- rudy23, on 04/13/2008, -0/+5thats the point. u just take the dudes word for it.
- bdbr, on 04/13/2008, -0/+5I've dived on artificial "reefs" in Florida (usually scuttled boats), and all the fish I've seen are native (and there is a LOT of them). Where are you getting your information?
- Elliuotatar, on 04/13/2008, -4/+9How is it going to waste if it's being used to build an ecosystem?
- gbudavid, on 04/13/2008, -6/+10I have read stories about those barrier reefs(artificial) of course being bad for the environment
- Jeffler, on 04/13/2008, -0/+4Whoosh.
- dsmx, on 04/13/2008, -1/+5Recycling steel isn't cost effective, new steel is cheaper to make than recycling old steel. Also these old subway cars contain asbestos which makes the cars expensive to dispose of.
- inactive, on 04/13/2008, -0/+4 I always hear about the price of steel and construction shortages yet at the same time I read a lot of articles about entire ships and subway cars dropped into the ocean.
- Jeffler, on 04/13/2008, -2/+6I don't care, I'm a whale biologist.
- inactive, on 04/13/2008, -0/+3Um... what the hell are you talking about?
- jstem1994, on 04/13/2008, -0/+3Maybe Jared can be the spokesman on this one.
- DucoNihilum, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2As far as my research into recycling has brought me, absolutely everything being recycled right now costs more to recycle than to create new- except metals...
- i4ybrid, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2Does that increase the amount of pollutants in the fish here?
- goldfishey, on 04/14/2008, -0/+2not really - the idea is the corals grow over it, and the metal understructure becomes redundant anyway. I hadnt heard about negative environment impacts though, anybody got any sources?
- Radical5, on 04/13/2008, -5/+7***** fish that's why
- ChinezePanda, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2Lot of recyclable steel going to waste?
Its creating a permanent reef that CANNOT die or decay. Its providing nature an extra set of boxing gloves - inactive, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2Isn't the point of posting a link in a comment to BACK UP your statements with proof?
- countingthedays, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2The cars they're dumping are just stripped stainless steel shells. There isn't really anything left to leach from.
- Betrayer, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2yea he should remove the joking comments and state what he believes.. he has some valid points just not articulated very well..
- Doofy, on 04/13/2008, -1/+2Steel = Iron + Carbon. Some of the most abundant materials on earth. Aluminum and copper, on the other hand, are rare, and much cheaper to recycle than to mine.
Asbestos is a natural mineral, it's NOT manmade. Asbestos fibers in the air are bad for your lungs, but are harmless in water. Your drinking water has asbestos in it. - Betrayer, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1Some say the solution to pollution is dilution .. so in this case the asbestos is not longer hazardous when diluted with the ocean
- Betrayer, on 04/13/2008, -1/+2and when you saw this.. other then the large object sinking (which would be awesome to see). did you feel at any time "this doesnt seem right"?
- pudgyv, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1You would think there would be a market for the recyclable material in these trains but you would be wrong. Several years ago the transit agency I worked for had to pay to have obsolete trains removed. We couldn't give these things away! These weren't stripped down shells either. They were heavy with steel castings and copper.
- mesasone, on 04/14/2008, -0/+1My city (well, technically I just moved from there last summer, but it's still just a 20 minute drive, so) just ended it's trial run with electric buses. I'm not sure how long the pilot program lasted, we've had them for most of my childhood. anyway, they auctioned the lot of 10 buses off for 30,000 total. I thought they were still functional, but it's been a while since I'd rode a city bus. Anyhow, a local paper interviewed the salvage company that won them, and apparently these things are likely to yield in excess of 10k in salvage a piece. It really amazes me, but I suppose it's a lot of effort to strip them down for salvage.
- sparr, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1In Biloxi MS I saw them sink a cruise ship for this same reason. It was very old, not functional any more. They stripped *EVERYTHING* out of it, leaving nothing but a steel shell, then scuttled it.
- Balanced, on 04/14/2008, -0/+1The Florida tire thing was a mistake. You have to learn from mistakes and do better, not condemn an entire idea because the execution had issues.
- Nudar, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1Wouldn't they just turn into meth labs?
- bedouin, on 04/13/2008, -1/+2They need to start turning them into restaurants again.
- Betrayer, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1thats what was said about the tires in florida.
- Marrach, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1I agree with everyone else. As an 'environmental' action, it sounds fishy (sorry) when you think about it further. The Steel should be recycled, not dumped. I remember hearing the same wonderful story about 'rubber tire' reefs way back when. Now they're trying to dredge the things back up.
- Betrayer, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1WTF? they should just park then in a meth neighborhood; paint free on them and watch them disappear overnight.
- Betrayer, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1just the ones living in or near the asbestos, and anything that eats those fish on up to your dinner plate.... luckly the masterminds behind this scheme have thought of that because they will have been dead for 50-100 years before we realize its a bad thing.
- Betrayer, on 04/13/2008, -1/+2more cost effective then cleaning up (or closing) beaches due to asbestos contamination in 20-50 years?
- nomik2, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1Recycling steel is actually extremely cost effective and is one of the most recycled materials in NA. Not to add that its better for the environment and uses 1/4 of the energy compared to using iron ore.
- fuzzynyanko, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1As long as it's not stainless steel, it'll rot eventually.
- inactive, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1"Who would have thought that subway cars on the ocean floor would encourage fish to congregate?"
Answer...EVERYBODY with even the slightest bit of knowledge on the subject. - countingthedays, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1Missouri? Cruise Ship? Reef?
- Charlotte_Web, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1Here's the Florida tires story:
http://www.cdnn.info/news/eco/e070217.html
It's a good idea if you dump the right materials. Big metal subway cars are good because they tend to stay in place. Tires are terrible because they flex to much for coral to accumulate on them, and then they break apart over time. -
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