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66 Comments
- phreak79, on 10/19/2008, -2/+22You could say this about most British energy projects. Bloody NIMBY's slowing everything down. No doubt they're the same idiots that then complain when energy prices are sky high because we have to bow to Russia to get our lights switched on.
- Goodanswer, on 10/19/2008, -4/+16So lemme get this straight.. they drag their feet Forever and hire incompetent people to run things and we expect to be surprised when these said people want to say it doesnt work, can they drill for more oil please?
What?.. can you?...CAN YOU DRILL? For fukc's sake, NO YOU CANT DRILL!!
Now get back to wind work, ya crybabies, and figure a way to tie into the grid.
Bet if there was a gun pointed at you, you would magically find a way to make it work, and Fast.
So here is some advice...Imagine one . - Bomster, on 10/19/2008, -6/+13Wind Energy < Nuclear Energy.
- Grummond, on 10/19/2008, -0/+6Actually, the wind generator business was started here in Denmark with government subsidies. A socialist principle. It's generated a booming business that has made it one of the most successful exports in Denmark of all time.
Sometimes capitalism mixed with socialism wins.
Deal with it. - Claverhouse, on 10/19/2008, -1/+6"This week, in a vast warehouse in Berlin, blades for the world's largest wind turbine are being handcrafted by teams of people and robots. Each is 20 metres longer than the wing of the world's largest aeroplane, and when perched on top of 140-metre concrete towers in Belgium next year their tips will soar nearly 250 metres above the ground - higher than any building in Britain."
This is why I prefer Germans to my own people. They just do stuff, for good or ill. - piesforyou, on 10/19/2008, -0/+5That's the problem with blighty, virtually everywhere IS someone's backyard. And the places that arn't are more protected that fort knox. Which is why we need to really concentrate on offshore windfarms - BIGGER farms, BIGGER windmills and more wind! And the best bit - not a whining middle/upper class idiot in sight.
- rhodydog, on 10/19/2008, -2/+6What are you talking about? What's building wind farms by private industry have anything to do with socialism?
- Grummond, on 10/20/2008, -1/+5floor, you haven't really researched this at all, have you?
-We gave up most of our oil reserves to Norway, sadly. Our economy has benefitted from oil, but wind generators have made a bigger impact on our economy overall.
-Denmark is in Afghanistan AND Iraq. Contributing heavily compared to the size of our population.
-Denmark has taken more refugees than most of our peers, probably more than we could handle, but don't give me any ***** about "opening our borders to immigration".
Denmark has mixed socialism with capitalism, and has succeeded because of it. I can see how that is embarrassing to right wingers in the US, but let's face it, capitalism alone hasn't helped you guys much, has it?.. - Richandler, on 10/19/2008, -2/+6The solution for energy will never come from the government. Just like the solution for everything else has never come from government.
- Grummond, on 10/19/2008, -0/+3Oh?
The danish government subsidized wind generators heavily during the 1990's. It used taxpayers money to do so, but it jumpstarted a business that has now grown into one of our major export businesses, and is responsible for job creation on an unprecedented level.
Vestas, now a world leader in the wind generator industry, was built during these years.
Socialism? Might be, but it worked beautifully. - Grummond, on 10/20/2008, -0/+3-The US does not need to protect it's sovereignty. No one has ever tried to invade you for geographical reasons.
The vast expenditure you have on your military, is mostly on "protecting your interests" in foreign countries.
We do quite well protecting our borders these days. Don't you worry.
-Denmark has taken WAY too many refugees during the 80's and 90's, we've had to cut back drastically.
We don't need to take any ***** from anyone about "our borders not being open enough".
So what was your point again? We thrive because our borders are closed?
"We're doing OK" is really not a good statement when your economy is going down the *****, your energy policy has failed, and your foreign policy has made you more enemies than friends globally since 9/11-2001.
But it's ok, you're like our slightly retarded cousin, who behaves like a total retard, but everyone likes anyway, because...we ARE related after all. - Trekhawk, on 10/19/2008, -1/+4The idea isn't that nuclear power will provide our energy forever. It's that nuclear will feasibly supply our needs until wind, solar, tidal, etc become realistic and reliable sources of base load energy. Until then, we should move towards a nuclear base supplemented by wind, solar, tidal, etc for peak hours.
- Claverhouse, on 10/19/2008, -0/+3Um, the British never ever rebel no matter how much of a police-state it becomes. They just grumble mildly and ruefully.
- DonWigler, on 10/19/2008, -2/+5This just in: Government is inefficient.
In other news: Sky is found to be blue. - NervousEnergy, on 10/19/2008, -1/+4Not In My Back Yard
- AirRaven, on 10/19/2008, -1/+4That gives the government responsibility.
Heaven forbid they be accountable for something of this magnitude.
What would the Thatcherites say? - gtluke, on 10/19/2008, -3/+5obviously bush's fault
- neutronphaser, on 10/19/2008, -1/+3Erection
- unitedkronos, on 10/19/2008, -0/+2NIMBY?
- Harrison88, on 10/19/2008, -0/+2What's wrong with good old Fiddlers? It keeps getting blown or burnt down anyway.
- Grummond, on 10/19/2008, -1/+3So, the wind generator business has proven itself to be such a big success that the industry can't keep up with demand, and you choose to use the words "on the brink of failure" in the title?
Fail? - Aliwalla, on 10/19/2008, -4/+6Don't worry, we'll just build Nuclear Power plants because Uranium will last FOREVER!!!!!!
- nick111, on 10/19/2008, -1/+3This is standard faire for the UK govt... I basically think they get conned into things.
The London Eye
That ***** Big Dome Thing
That Bridge Opposite The Tate
And every hospital and govt building ever... they all go massively massively over budget - its like they get firms to bid on projects then believe with wide-eyed gulliability every single thing they're told.
Oh, and before the retards turn up... all of this is far far worse for nukes. Don't even start. We're still paying for the last generation of nukes and probably will be, foreever... in fact one of the pieces of slight of hand that current nuke bids are employing is that they're hiding their waste-costs under existing waste-management budgets. Typical nuke industry dishonesty. - mickstephenson, on 10/19/2008, -0/+2The problem is that private industry just can't cope with demand, the solution to me seems to build/buy a manufacturing plant under public ownership and build the things under license from the company which designed the turbines. That way Britain will always be first in line to receive the new turbines.
- Grummond, on 10/19/2008, -0/+2That notion has been thrown at me countless times. But not once has anyone been able to tell me why a country with vastly more resources than ours can't do the same. Your country overall generates a lot more wind than ours. And you have an economy of scale effect going for you.
Only problem i see, is that you (I'm assuming you're american) got into this business very late, since you haven't been very progressive in your policies, so European industries have a head start in sustainable power in a technological sense.
You have some catching up to do, but there's no good reason you shouldn't try. - Grummond, on 10/20/2008, -0/+2Technology now exists, that enables you to build wind generators near your cities. You don't HAVE to build all of them in Alaska.
- Grummond, on 10/20/2008, -0/+2If anything, wind mill farms have LESS transmission loss than a nuclear plant, that has to be built at a distance from major cities for safety and distribution reasons.
Wind mill farms can be built at the edge of any city. - edd17, on 10/19/2008, -0/+2My favourite is BANANA - Build absolutely nothing anywhere near anything.
- batfink, on 10/19/2008, -0/+1Build as many wind farms as you want around my place, just make sure you pull Fiddlers Ferry Power Station Down... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiddlers_Ferry_Power_ ...
- TheCatsPants, on 10/20/2008, -0/+1I agree. Sometimes it seems that every public building or engineering project has to be designed by some cutting-edge architect, using a unique combination of never-before-used materials in a novel way. Then they wonder why it runs over time and over budget or needs a lot of money afterwards to fix it. If its public money, just build the fecking things using trusted methods, and perhaps try to make them blend in with surrounding buildings.
- AirRaven, on 10/19/2008, -0/+1Whining fishermen.
- inactive, on 10/19/2008, -2/+3What do you expect - our government screws up every project they take on, I'm just glad my bank was not one of the ones they now part own.
- Grummond, on 10/19/2008, -1/+2Denmark currently gets 20% of it's power from wind generators, they're supplemented by coal plants, but that balance is rapidly shifting. There's basically no need for expensive, unsafe nuclear plants that will generate waste that will be a problem for centuries.
Once solar cells become more cost effective, they'll be good supplements to wind power, but until then...build baby, build. - TheCatsPants, on 10/20/2008, -0/+1Why is it that some people only see things as 'black or white'? Capitalism *or* socialism? While I wouldn't say that we've perfected things in the UK, we seem to get long fine using elements from both. It is possible to combine them.
- dsmx, on 10/19/2008, -0/+1Germans like following orders whereas the British are a disobedient race.
- dsmx, on 10/19/2008, -0/+1Thankfully I'm with the nationwide and they are unaffected by this crisis.
- Drewsky415, on 10/20/2008, -0/+1Agreed!
- floor, on 10/20/2008, -0/+1Why did you turn this into a question about me and not a response to the topic? Not being defensive, just curious.
Either you are not familiar with the current opinions relative to the topic or you disagree. But you chose to change the topic which suggests you are not comfortable in defending ellObo's assertion. - mcfarrr, on 10/20/2008, -0/+1This is a shame to hear an international example of alternative energy hitting all sorts of red tape.
- motters, on 10/20/2008, -0/+1Ah, this suggestion is much too sensible for the UK government.
- mama146, on 10/19/2008, -1/+2The Dream of environmentally friendly energy has turned into a highly subsidized destruction of the countryside. Stop drinking the Kool Aid, people.
Industrial Wind is not the answer. It is probably the biggest tax payer subsidy scam going right now. It is by far the worst, most inefficient, most expensive form of renewable energy out there...and it is the only one that requires fossil fuel plants to be always running.
Why doesn't the government put those billioins towards making people LESS dependent on the grid with home turbines and solar panels? Why? No PROFIT,,,and it would just make too much sense. - motters, on 10/20/2008, -0/+1This really isn't rocket science, and Britain has faced far bigger challenges in the past and overcome them. With 21st century technology if we can't erect a few windmills at sea and plug them into the electricity grid then that really is an abysmal performance (Note: seabed laying of cables was perfected in the 19th century). What's happening here I think is that officials, contractors and consultants are stringing out the process for as long as possible so that they can continue to claim subsidies.
- ell0bo, on 10/20/2008, -1/+2Not the correct thread to troll, but close. I give you a C for effort. It's a matter of clean energy, not Democrat or Republican. Regrettably, most of the Neo-cons (not Republicans) will want you to think differently. They rule by fear, not by good ideas or real notions. Much as their highly prized bible rules by fear (of God). Note, I love my guns, and love Jesus, but I don't think God is someone to fear, instead love because he gave us life and this amazing world (and evolution to really screw with us). Socialism isn't just a horrible thing, it has its place, just not in the US (although it did get us out of the Great Depression... pick up a history book).
- floor, on 10/20/2008, -0/+1Saying socialism got us out of the depression is like saying leaches got us out of the black plague. Knowing what we know now most economists agree that FDR did more harm than good and slowed the recovery down considerably.
- inactive, on 10/20/2008, -0/+1Americans are convinced that anything that isn't capitalism is wrong and evil. We're afraid of change - even if "same" has been proven to not work. Hell, we don't believe in evolution in nature, so why should our government evolve? It is easy to look around and say "oh, that looks like a better way to do things," but in the long run it is hurtful to do anything any differently than we already do currently. The market will correct itself, and supply/demand will drive industry to develop all technologies more quickly because people will pay for it. Oh, and Barak Obama's middle name is HUSSIN! McCain '80!
I am, of course, being very sarcastic. Someone explain to me how you can say adopting aspects of socialism is giving too much power to the government while you support the patriot act. Please. It doesn't have to be Red China, folks. We can be responsible and find solutions that work even if people we don't like thought of them first. - inactive, on 10/19/2008, -2/+2I sure a big boat doesn't come cruising through that area at night and run all those windmills over.
- inactive, on 10/19/2008, -4/+4hahaha...take that Al gore
- floor, on 10/20/2008, -1/+1You really seem to have trouble following the thread here. This all started with a comment on how the socialism in Denmark is a fluke, something that seems to be working there at the moment but cannot be carried out on a larger scale.
- I never said that the US is worried about its own sovereignty, I said you guys are lucky that you don't have to spend much to protect yours. We've had your back for a century and we'll have it again when you need us. That's how we are. We'll take care of our stupid snobby little cousins when they ***** up no matter how poorly they treat us.
- You seem real touchy about taking in poor, unskilled, uneducated people into your little biosphere and I can't say I blame you. But just because you feel you have taken in "too many" does not negate the fact that the EU is on your ass to lighten up and conform to the rules. You have the tightest borders and the "purest" bloodlines around. What is it now, like 8% of your population arrived from outside your borders?
I'm actually a little jealous of that, but again it certainly is a factor on why your little socialist experiment is holding together.
- It so nice that your government subsidized the wind industry which created a nice little export scam by dumping products at below market value. Works well for you but not sure it helps the world in the long run. Enjoy paying the highest electricity rates in the world (what, 3x the US?)
We got through the great depression, we got through Jimmy Carter and we'll get through this.
And don't kid yourself. Winning the cold war made us our "enemies". Everybody hates a winner, at least one with power. -
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