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Top 5 Reasons Why the Mortgage Crisis = Global Warming
solveclimate.com — The following moral explains them both: "Let society at large foot the bill for the crisis as long as the culprits can keep doing business as usual and those that protect them can stay in power." And here are the five fundamental attributes that the two crises share.
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- scootscr15, on 12/18/2007, -3/+12Manbearpig?
- MacSuxWindozSux, on 12/18/2007, -2/+2He's at it again!
- active1x0, on 12/18/2007, -2/+6Only this time he's super cereal!
- Berkana, on 12/18/2007, -2/+3The two are related in more ways than their similarities. See the explanation starting from 5:18 of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yvRZoM-2r8
(The rest of it is worth watching, or the portion above might not make sense.)- sanman, on 12/18/2007, -0/+1So do we need a joint solution?
How about solar and wind-powered homes?
This could stimulate the home-buying market, because of the appealing hi-tech cost-saving gimmick.
It could also expand the home-buying market, not by lending to the insolvent, but rather because energy-self-sufficient off-grid housing could expand the number of places where housing can be built. This is why I think Prefab is the future.- netdroid9, on 12/18/2007, -0/+1I think the idea of the video was that the whole debt-based monetary system was flawed, so feeding it more debt due to more people buying houses and thus generating more home-loans would simply make matters worse.
- sanman, on 12/18/2007, -0/+1So do we need a joint solution?
- redrock34, on 12/18/2007, -0/+16Holy *****! Three of my favorite things: lists, mortgage crisis, and global warming all wrapped into one! I think I just reached Digg nirvana.
- GangsterCompute, on 12/18/2007, -6/+4Great article, some of the best marxian critique of our day!
- Scruffydan, on 12/18/2007, -0/+5identifying and eliminating externalities is marxian? here I was thinking that externalities were detrimental to the free market. I got to go do some wikipedia editing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality
- Scruffydan, on 12/18/2007, -0/+5identifying and eliminating externalities is marxian? here I was thinking that externalities were detrimental to the free market. I got to go do some wikipedia editing.
- active1x0, on 12/18/2007, -13/+7Yes, but one is man-made, one is not.
Points if you can figure out which.- BluAardvark, on 12/18/2007, -10/+3I, too, am increasingly convinced that man-made global warming is not as solid as it is made out to be.
Regardless, however, the same points apply. Even if the man-made climate change is entirely bogus, pollution and the future exhaustion of our energy sources are very serious issues which mandate very serious introspection, and those responsible for the crisis are happily idling around while the bulk of society suffers. - staticneuron, on 12/18/2007, -2/+2Why do people insist on being stupid? Global warming is not manmade..... evryone knows that. The question is if our actions are causeing it to happen faster than it naturally would. And all signs point to that we are helping towards it.
- BluAardvark, on 12/18/2007, -10/+3I, too, am increasingly convinced that man-made global warming is not as solid as it is made out to be.
- FonWin, on 12/18/2007, -5/+6Wait, I thought cow farts caused global warming. dang it...
- Amnesia10, on 12/18/2007, -0/+1Yes but cows and farmers are subsidised and protected by the government. I love beef but the environmental impact of intensive livestock farming on water supplies is horrendous.
- Amnesia10, on 12/18/2007, -0/+1Yes but cows and farmers are subsidised and protected by the government. I love beef but the environmental impact of intensive livestock farming on water supplies is horrendous.
- Richandler, on 12/18/2007, -7/+5How about programs created with good intention made things horribly wrong. The mortgage crisis is a direct result of trying to be fair to poorer people by claiming that racism was involved in lending practices. This created these subprime mortgages from the government. Similarly the government now wants to choose your light bulbs for you so they can be fair to the enviromentalist. What they don't tell you is special interest profiteers are pretty much taking everyones money on both issues.
We need less government intervention on more personal responsibility.- Scruffydan, on 12/18/2007, -2/+1the free market can solve most environmental issues (including climate change), but only if policies are in place to reduce externalities.
- niczar, on 12/18/2007, -1/+3"We need less government intervention on more personal responsibility."
How can persons be more responsible when CORPORATIONS spend billions on advertising, whose purpose is to con people into doing not what's good for them, but what's good for the corporation?
Why do we hear about "personal responsibility" and never about "corporate responsibility"? That's because corporations are irresponsible; and that is why a (working) governement has to step in to reign them in. Corporations are, by definition, psychopathic entities.- 3tcp, on 12/18/2007, -3/+1We need more government intervention because people are too gullible? You're going to have to do better than that
- niczar, on 12/18/2007, -0/+1Those pooooor corporations sure must be glad that you're around the internets to defend them, it's not like they can defend themselves otherwise, with all those nasty communists attacking them.
- 3tcp, on 12/18/2007, -3/+1We need more government intervention because people are too gullible? You're going to have to do better than that
- junyamint, on 12/18/2007, -3/+6FTA: "Global warming is sourced in same strategy -- known as "externalization" of costs, a fancy way of saying getting a free ride. The earth's atmosphere has been used as free as a dumping ground for CO2. The biggest polluters don't want to start paying for the privilege, and so the environmental cost of global warming is being shifted to society at large."
Couldn't agree more. If CO2 is leading to warmer temperatures than companies should have to PAY for releasing the CO2 into the atmosphere. This would create an economic incentive to fix the problem. For example why would you build a coal burning power plant if you know the cost per kilowatt hour is no longer going to be competitive with alternatives.- 3tcp, on 12/18/2007, -0/+3Who do they pay, the government? Who is going to enforce it, the national government? What happens when China, Thailand, Haiti or Morocco decide not to enforce it and all the factories move there?
This is a global problem and no body has the power to single-handedly impose and enforce a solution. Solutions will have to be through global cooperation.
- 3tcp, on 12/18/2007, -0/+3Who do they pay, the government? Who is going to enforce it, the national government? What happens when China, Thailand, Haiti or Morocco decide not to enforce it and all the factories move there?
- insomniacal, on 12/18/2007, -4/+12No, no, no, no, and no.
The mortgage crisis was brought on equally by greedy and unsavvy homebuyers who borrowed more money and bought more house than they could afford. I have little sympathy for them -- they did it to themselves.- BluAardvark, on 12/18/2007, -3/+5I agree in part, but I would still hold that a good portion of the blame belongs to the lending industries that put unsavvy homebuyers in the position in the first place.
- 3tcp, on 12/18/2007, -1/+2The lenders sold them what they wanted to buy. The approval process isn't meant to protect stupid borrowers from themselves it's supposed to protect the lender. They have risk assessors that determine the expected payoff and loan accordingly. The borrower is the one responsible for protecting themselves.
These aren't people who are going to be living in the streets and eating out of trash cans, they just have to rent a place to live. They wouldn't be able to get the loan if they didn't have any income at all, they just chose to get a loan based on the expectation that their income would increase enough that they would still be able to afford it when the payments increased.- niczar, on 12/18/2007, -2/+2Because homebuyers are supposed to understand financial markets, contract law, and the various consequences thereof ... right. How convenient for the snake oil salesmen, when all the responsibility is borne by their victims.
- 3tcp, on 12/18/2007, -0/+1All a homebuyer needs to know is how to use a credit card and the difference between a fixed rate and an adjustable rate mortgage. There's a balance, it accrues interest, you have to pay every month. If you have an adjustable rate, it will adjust upwards at some point over the 40 year life of the loan so make the loan small enough that you will still be able to make the payments when it happens.
Buying a home is the biggest financial decision that people will make in their entire lives. If they won't do enough research to understand how the process works before they put themselves into hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt then it's their fault. They were stupid and shouldn't be treated better than someone who was foreclosed on three years ago. They just happened to do something stupid at the same time as a lot of other people. - insomniacal, on 12/18/2007, -0/+2"Buying a home is the biggest financial decision that people will make in their entire lives. If they won't do enough research to understand how the process works before they put themselves into hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt then it's their fault."
I agree with 3tcp. The resources are out there. All it takes is talking with existing homeowners and thinking ahead.
- 3tcp, on 12/18/2007, -0/+1All a homebuyer needs to know is how to use a credit card and the difference between a fixed rate and an adjustable rate mortgage. There's a balance, it accrues interest, you have to pay every month. If you have an adjustable rate, it will adjust upwards at some point over the 40 year life of the loan so make the loan small enough that you will still be able to make the payments when it happens.
- niczar, on 12/18/2007, -2/+2Because homebuyers are supposed to understand financial markets, contract law, and the various consequences thereof ... right. How convenient for the snake oil salesmen, when all the responsibility is borne by their victims.
- 3tcp, on 12/18/2007, -1/+2The lenders sold them what they wanted to buy. The approval process isn't meant to protect stupid borrowers from themselves it's supposed to protect the lender. They have risk assessors that determine the expected payoff and loan accordingly. The borrower is the one responsible for protecting themselves.
- niczar, on 12/18/2007, -2/+4And the buyers weren't suckered in by dodgy business practice?
How come your average home owner is supposed to know everything about the financial market and bear all responsibility of not understanding it? Isn't that the lenders' job? Shouldn't they pay for selling to people whom they SHOULD have known couldn't possibly repay?- 3tcp, on 12/18/2007, -1/+2What should have made them know that these people couldn't possibly repay when the other 90% of the people with the same kind of loans aren't defaulting?
- niczar, on 12/18/2007, -1/+190% of kids who lick lead-paint chinese toys never get sick. It's ok then.
- niczar, on 12/18/2007, -1/+190% of kids who lick lead-paint chinese toys never get sick. It's ok then.
- 3tcp, on 12/18/2007, -1/+2What should have made them know that these people couldn't possibly repay when the other 90% of the people with the same kind of loans aren't defaulting?
- john570, on 12/18/2007, -3/+1Insomniacal what an incredible piece of work you are. I guess that is why you cant sleep at night. The mortgage companies were pushing and pushing saying to buy as much as you possibly could and at the time the home values were so over inflated it was all you could afford regardless. What a pompous ass you are for blaming the home owners. Hopefully I will be able to get out of this in the next 7yrs. That is what i have left before it goes to the stratosphere and the bank will loose regardless.
- insomniacal, on 12/18/2007, -0/+2"The mortgage companies were pushing and pushing saying to buy as much as you possibly could"
Agreed. They'll say what they can to make as much money off us as possible. I don't mind a little proactive governmental regulation over this.
"and at the time the home values were so over inflated it was all you could afford regardless."
Disagreed. Anyone can buy a smaller home, or a home in a less affluent neighborhood. Townhomes, even condos are options (I bought a townhome myself because I couldn't afford a single family home). It was people borrowing too much money from lenders who drove prices up. Prices depend on what the market will bear, and with too-easy money floating around thanks to unsavvy borrowers, prices soared.
"What a pompous ass you are for blaming the home owners."
I blame BOTH. But primarily I blame the homeowners, yes, because predatory lending doesn't work unless someone signs on the bottom line.
"Hopefully I will be able to get out of this in the next 7yrs. That is what i have left before it goes to the stratosphere and the bank will loose regardless."
I hope you will, too. I just think you can recover without government aid. You took a gamble and it didn't pay off. It happens. Hang in there.
- insomniacal, on 12/18/2007, -0/+2"The mortgage companies were pushing and pushing saying to buy as much as you possibly could"
- BluAardvark, on 12/18/2007, -3/+5I agree in part, but I would still hold that a good portion of the blame belongs to the lending industries that put unsavvy homebuyers in the position in the first place.
- fusuke31, on 12/18/2007, -2/+7Privatize the profit, socialize the risk. You bastards.
- cambob76, on 12/18/2007, -1/+6Average people are stupid and do stupid things. A $575,000 house with no money down? Oh, yeah that's going to turn out well. You can blame the banks if you want, but if someone offered me a brand new Ferrari, no money down, low payments I would definitely think something is up... either the car is a piece of *****, or they're gonna screw me somehow.
- JonGalt, on 12/18/2007, -5/+7If you get a 30+ year mortgage with a VARIABLE interest rate that has no ceiling and don't bother to look at how much you could possibly afford when interest rates rise (because they always do) then, ITS YOUR FAULT, you took the risk and failed jackass.
Anyone remember the hole in the ozone?
Anyone remember "global cooling"?
Anyone remember "save the trees"? (LOL now look at California wild fires)
Anyone remember big hair and neon clothing?
Aren't fads great.- niczar, on 12/18/2007, -0/+4"Anyone remember the hole in the ozone?" -- yup, still here, just not growing.
"Anyone remember "global cooling"?" -- nope, except as a recent invention of rightwing fscktards who made it up, claiming that it was a scientific consensus in the 70's when it wasn't, at all
"Anyone remember "save the trees"? (LOL now look at California wild fires)" -- I'm not sure what your point is, or rather, if I do, you appear to be even more dense that I originally thought- MtheoryX, on 12/18/2007, -1/+2Oh, sure, leave out big hair and neon clothing.
Come on, im dying to hear your opinion on that one too!
/sarcasm
- MtheoryX, on 12/18/2007, -1/+2Oh, sure, leave out big hair and neon clothing.
- niczar, on 12/18/2007, -0/+4"Anyone remember the hole in the ozone?" -- yup, still here, just not growing.
- wrongonce, on 12/18/2007, -3/+2"Same story with global warming. Look at Hurricane Katrina."
Buried as inaccurate. - 3tcp, on 12/18/2007, -4/+2So basically business enterprises have had some kind of effect on both global warming and the mortgage crisis. In a free market world anything can be linked to business interests somehow. It's easy to do because everyone is employed by some sort of business and patronizes businesses. Even the government and non-profits behave like businesses because they look to protect their sources of revenue and expand them.
1) 'The full cost of doing business is not assumed by those earning profits' Just because profit is denominated in money terms doesn't mean that the consumer did not profit from the transaction. Trade is mutually beneficial and if someone buys something then they value the item at least as much as the price they'll have to pay to get it. This applies in mortgages as well.
2) 'The consequences have spiraled out of control'. No one ever has control of the consequences. The consequences of risk are a net positive because a lot of other people were able to get houses and keep them even though some people couldn't afford their loans. The mortgage bubble is the result of poor evaluation of risk both by lenders and borrowers.
3) 'The poor are made to bear the brunt' Most poor people didn't engage in risky borrowing behavior and are doing just fine (relatively speaking). Many of them will be able to buy houses as a result of the falling prices, low demand, high supply and low interest rates.
4) 'They're both getting worse' Oh really? Well I've been putting on a little weight since thanksgiving and Obama's poll numbers have been rising as well. Coincidence?
5) 'Elected people are protecting those making the profits'. The only profits from the housing were earned when the loans were originated then packaged and sold as bonds. The current problems in housing mean that those people don't have a lot of business right now and lenders lose money in foreclosure especially in a housing market this poor. Global warming is a global problem and elected officials do not have power over the entire world. If solutions are not reached on a global level then all the dirty industries will just move to the countries that let them pollute and national regulations won't help - nycmac247, on 12/18/2007, -1/+3The biggest polluter in the world is the US military; it has been that way for years and continues to this day.
http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2004/1 ... - vario, on 12/18/2007, -2/+1So they are one and the same. I see. THEY ARE EQUAL.
- jolt459, on 12/18/2007, -0/+7Wow.
When I first saw this title I was like, "Wow, how much more can they blame on global warming?" This is the biggest load of crap I've ever seen. - Evildudetx, on 12/18/2007, -0/+5Damn, this guy is really grasping at straws. If anyone knows this guy in real life, make sure he takes his meds before posting on the internet.
- desertDenizen, on 12/18/2007, -0/+4Sea Biscuit has 4 legs. Lassie has 4 legs. Ergo, horse = dog. Buried for drawing a pointless parallel.
- quetranza, on 12/18/2007, -1/+21-5) Both so-called "crises" are being exaggerated and exploited for political purposes.
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