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54 Comments
- ravan46, on 04/25/2008, -1/+14The World's (Potentially) Largest Hybrid
- prisoner24601, on 04/25/2008, -0/+10It's funny to me that electric-drive hasn't become dominant yet. I'm not necessarily talking about electric-only vehicles where there is only a battery and a motor. This article points out how making motion with electric motors powered by a gas generator is still far more efficient than making motion from mechanically capturing tiny explosions.
Locomotives have worked this way for decades. I'm quite surprised that the GM Volt is the first car planned to do it. It's taken a long time to get this obvious efficiency leap to appear in regular vehicles. My suspicion is that auto manufacturers have been reluctant because it will make cars so much easier to maintain that the local dealers won't be happy. The vehicle becomes very "modular" (a small gas engine/generator unit, a battery unit, a motor) with each major module connected to another *without* physical drive linkages, but just with electric cabling. No single module will weigh more than a couple hundred pounds so any local garage with a winch can replace your motor, etc. - fkr3, on 04/25/2008, -0/+8They are, but giant Tonka Trucks are a lot more awesome.
Also those things are huge. I went out to a coal mine in central Queensland (Australia) last year, the machinery just blows you away it's so huge. - RorObSN, on 04/25/2008, -1/+9Everyone should drive these.
- BossKey, on 04/25/2008, -0/+7There is an important point in the article. Small fast cars need hybrid drives the least...they already use less gas by nature. Large, slow, high-torque vehicles are the ones that can deliver the most fuel savings and performance benefits from becoming hybrids. Reasonable environmentalists would do well to push for more big hybrids before demanding more small ones.
- spacetaco, on 04/25/2008, -0/+5I don't know about 'world's largest'... Last time I checked, trains are pretty big.
- Tenlow, on 04/25/2008, -1/+6I was under the impression they were all diesel electric to begin with?
- Avor, on 04/25/2008, -0/+5Not even speaking of the hybrid part, this vehicle is one of those things that you know exists, but when you see it, it is still a surprise.
- prisoner24601, on 04/25/2008, -0/+5Tenlow is correct that for these types of trucks (and for many years) the engine burns diesel gas to run a generator, not to directly turn the wheels. The generator sends *electricity* to motors which turns the wheels. This is because it is FAR more efficient to use X gallons of gas to make electricity in a generator on the vehicle and then make mechanical motion from motors. A gas engine running directly to a generator has very little mechanical loss of energy before the conversion, very little loss from transmission of that electric power several feet to the motors, and motors convert electricity back into motion very efficiently. This is how locomotives have worked for decades.
S1ngular1ty1 is correct that this new enhancement adds a battery between the generator and the motor. These trucks (and locomotives) make electricity "on demand" for the motors, but don't store it. Braking is done mechanically with shoes and energy is wasted as heat. Motors can be run in reverse to cause braking and also generate electricity, but they have to add the battery to have a place to capture it. Hopefully I've elucidated the subject. for you. :-)
Bad: Burning Gas -> Pistons -> Driveshaft -> Transmission -> Wheels
Because mechanical transmissions are horribly inefficient
Better: Burning Gas -> Pistons -> Driveshaft -> Electric Generator -> Motor -> Wheels
Because it gets rid of the transmission (and also, btw, make maintenance WAY easier. Everything is connected just with wires.)
Best: Better: Burning Gas -> Pistons -> Driveshaft -> Electric Generator -> Battery -> Motor -> Wheels
Because when you want to stop the vehicle you run it backwards and get:
Wheels -> Motor (running backwards = Generator) - > Battery
Short version: Your car (and mine) is lame because it tries to capture explosions (burning gas) mechanically (with transmission). Buy a Chevy Volt when they come out in a couple of years. :-) - inactive, on 04/25/2008, -1/+6Hybrids are awesome!
- MajorOutage, on 04/25/2008, -0/+4Welcome to...um...how many decades have these things been around for now?
- DommoOrigato, on 04/25/2008, -0/+4SUBMARINES FTW!!!!
No really, they've been around for 100 years, and they weight thousands of tons. - FatalFlak, on 04/25/2008, -0/+4Actually, im an Electrician at an Iron Ore mine in Canada and have driven these for electrical troubleshooting and diagnostics. It was quite an experience at first, being in a cab so high off the ground and controlling a vehicle the size of a building, but after a while it just feels like you're driving another truck, -be it a large slow truck. I've thought about applying as a permanant haulage truck driver, but I appreciate being an electrician and seeing the rest of the mine, plus a different challenge every day keeps the mind somewhat fresh.
Anyways, posted just to say that the hybrid idea is nothing new, but the re-generative brakes are I believe. Right now when we use the brakes it only operates and electrical brake on the motor, winding it down to a hault. God what a horrible noise.. anyway peace guys! - S1ngular1ty1, on 04/25/2008, -1/+4True but now they have batteries.
- S1ngular1ty1, on 04/25/2008, -0/+3Same thing I was thinking. Trains have been hybrids for a long time. Also, don't forget cargo ships.
- fkr3, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2Mines have a lot of large equipment including stuff bigger than that truck, and plenty of it uses or can use electricity.
The bucket on this dragline can fit a Humvee with plenty of space, the actual carriage / engine area's much bigger.
http://bp0.blogger.com/_HADbq9ANLkc/RsoTsfQzWXI/AA ... - Qong, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2Amazing. GE is a quality company!
I'm not so sure that I would knock down the necessity of small hybrid vehicles as well though, as BossKey did above. It should of course be assumed that more fuel would be conserved by switching larger vehicles to hyrids, but that doesn't change the fact that small hybrid vehicles save their fair share as well. - prisoner24601, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2I'm afraid that your comment indicates you are still not quite seeing the difference between a SERIAL hybrid and a PARALLEL hybrid. All the hybrid cars on the market today are parallel (both electric motor and gas engine directly apply force through a mechanical transmission, at times one, and times the other, at times both.) And yes, a Prius is a MORE complex maintenance challenge because of that. (Not only do the same physical linkages between the gas engine and the mechanical transmission exist as in other cars, there are ALSO additional physical linkages from the electric motor to the mechanical transmission, etc.)
However, both the truck in question, and the upcoming GM Volt, are SERIES designs. In these ALL drive motion comes from electric motors. Obviously there are no mechanical forces transferred between generator/battery/electric motor, only electricity across cables. It will be incredibly easy to disconnect the cable to a failed module, hoist out the battery or generator or motor, etc. and ship it to a repair facility. You won't even wait to get the original back, just swap in a certified rebuild most likely. You won't even get greasy doing it.
Also, you are really not seeing that this design does ADD the weight of a battery, but REMOVES the weight of the transmission. Even if the weight is a net slight increase, the overall efficiency is radically improved. - sungoddess808, on 04/25/2008, -2/+4That hybrid is HUGE!!1
- Aensland, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2Imagine the massive traffic jammage.
- furto, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2....you actually think that one of those trucks is worth $23k? One of the wheels is probably close to that.
- jncro, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2There is a large cloud of smug over San Fransico right now.
- HappyScrappy, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2Article says most haul trucks are electrically driven. This is not true. Some are electrically driven. Caterpillar haul trucks are still direct-driven from the motor shaft.
Making a hybrid version of these trucks ought to be a cinch for GE since they already did a locomotive hybrid (and not just a switcher). - yoda133113, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2they also lose a lot of energy when stopping, the concept here is to save that energy.
- slightlygifted, on 04/25/2008, -2/+3why does it matter that they save 50% on city mpg? do they really drive those things in the city? i dont even think it would be legal to.
- Akaji, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2Context, man. We're talking about land vehicles.
- davidrools, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1large vehicles take lots of energy to move. there's no way around that. efficiency can improve but only so much.
- BossKey, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Actually, what I should have said in that last sentence was "Reasonable environmentalists would do well to push for more big hybrids before acting so smug in their little, relatively ineffectual Priuses."
I mean, I think of myself as an environmentalist, but the Prius is almost more of a symbol than anything else. - Dachublez, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Your an idiot. buried.
- DommoOrigato, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1That is true. If you look at the percentage increase in MPG, the chevy tahoe hybrid is one of the biggest achievers as far as fuel economy goes.
- sonicularulus, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2using diesel to run an electric motor, which powers a vehicle which helps in mining coal...
i find that funny. using a pollutant to run something greener to help get something which will lead to more pollution.
ah, us humans...we're a funny species... - prisoner24601, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Actually you are not quite seeing the improvement. See my post above.
- ferrariman60, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2GE is a company that still makes the vast majority of its money on coal burning technology, don't let their ad campaign fool you. They aren't really that fantastic. Not saying it's bad for company to make money on that sort of tech, but they shouldn't represent themselves as a company that loves the environment and all that stuff their ads say.
- yoda133113, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1A train ENGINE (you can't count the whole thing, the cars are just pulled along, not considered the same vehicle) is much smaller than one of these, I don't think you quite grasp the size of one of these. As for ships, obviously the ocean has larger hybrids than anything mobile on land.
- bosssmiley, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Oh, you mean like Submarine Land-Dreadnaughts?
http://davidszondy.com/future/war/megabattleship.h ... - jncro, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Exactly as above, an Train engine is all engine and no body. It has to pull all of those cars.
- Tenlow, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Well the ones they have on the big stuff episode of modern marvels have regenerative braking, so this can't be some new breakthrough. That episode is at least 3 years old.
- mos6507, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1The reason is that cars have more stop and start than trains do. So you can't keep the ICE in its optimum RPM band as easily.
- mos6507, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Come on, you want to put one of these on the back and drive it down the 405 freeway.
http://www.truck-nuts.com/index.html - elasticsoul, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Why is it either/or? Why can't "environmentalists" go for both? Why do you think they're smug in their Priuses - and relatively ineffective? Taxis all over are going to either Prius or Camry hybrid because they save a huge amount of fuel/money - and that also adds up to a very large savings in CO2. Finally, considering that the vast majority of trips involve one person, a Prius makes far more sense for most people than a Tahoe.
- brianara3, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Hello... one of these things STILL burn 1000s of gallons of diesel fuel every week. It may be a "hybrid" but that diesel engine runs all the time the truck is running.
Yes, it is slightly more efficient than a straight diesel-to-wheel configuration... but still not the best answer. Why can't a mining operation use all electric? They don't drive that fast or far, and for the same weight as the diesel engine you could store a lot of batteries. Not to mention the fact that the electricity is only used on demand all day. At the end of a shift, plug the thing in with some massive cables, next shift someone else takes it back out.
Then when green power is the norm, they are carbon free vehicles. - S1ngular1ty1, on 04/26/2008, -0/+1It isn't a new break though. It has been around for a long time.
- brianara3, on 04/25/2008, -0/+0Sorry, we can't reclaim that gas to make electricity....
- benroy, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1Your Mom Is The Worlds Largest Hybrid.
- Sulzer, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1A for effort, but here's the way I see it:
price of non-hybrid: let's say $23,000
price of its hybrid counterpart: $30,000
(estimates, correct me if I'm wrong)
Now see, all of these people buying up hybrids take the financial hit for the good of the planet (and savings on gas, but hey, the electricity you feed into it isn't free), but the people who would be in the market for these care only about minimizing cost and maximizing profit. I don't think that mining companies and the like would be willing to take a financial hit for this unless they were forced to by some sort of mandate; it's not in their best interest. It probably wouldn't help their image that much either, if that is you're argument, because face it, the companies who use these machines probably aren't on green lovers' "favorites" lists to begin with. Thoughts? - brianara3, on 04/25/2008, -0/+0Not much smaller...
Komatsu 830E - 162,505 kg
Western Rail GP40 - 122,469 kg - jncro, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1Or a Zenn car when they come out. The creaters of the first chevy electrica car thats design got bought by Exxon and conviently lost.
- Sulzer, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1Those numbers refer to consumer based cars (e.g. Honda, Nissan, etc.)
- elasticsoul, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1Actually taxis are switching to hybrids based on economics.
- Bukowsky, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1Do you know of any others?
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