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Swedes Using Body Heat to Heat Stockholm Train Station

inhabitat.com — Move over sun and wind power … the next frontier in renewable energy is people power! And no, we don’t mean soylent green, but rather to use the energy generated from large numbers of pedestrians moving through an occupied space. Plans are now afoot to channel human body heat to heat an entire train station in Sweden

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  • blazes816, on 01/14/2008, -3/+73They could cut down on people used by setting every 20th person on fire.
    • passedoutghost, on 01/14/2008, -2/+0Why not just get Johnny Storm the Human Torch?
      • nospinhere, on 01/14/2008, -4/+2Buried as inaccurate, this article is full of *****. There is no such project going on, it's all made up. Think about it for a second people. If you need a hint, read the first comment below the article.
    • nospinhere, on 01/14/2008, -4/+1Too bad it still doesn't work or make sense. Humans do not generate enough residual heat to radiate to pipes even at a very close distance. Even if they did, all they are doing is removing heat from the train station itself causing them to have to heat it more. ohh yeah, throw in the cost of electricity to move the water in those pipes and you have a real fictitious story here. But I'm sure some tree huggers here will tell all their friends tomorrow about all these wonderful things the Swedes are doing and why the U.S. can't be more like them.
  • Mustala, on 01/14/2008, -3/+68i'm pretty sure this is how the matrix began
    • isewise, on 01/14/2008, -1/+10Be quiet coppertop and get to work on time for once.
    • iPissExcellence, on 01/14/2008, -1/+16are you speaking in past tense about the future?
      • Zapkiller, on 01/14/2008, -0/+2No, because it has already been done :o
    • Zapkiller, on 01/14/2008, -0/+1My thoughts exactly.
  • has2k1, on 01/14/2008, -2/+11If you follow the link in the article, the most interesting statistic is that it would cost $31,200 to provide 20% of the power for the multi-million dollar building. That is brilliant.
    • dinostabOMG, on 01/14/2008, -1/+11I wish this article were more detailed. How are they going to get the heat from the people into "the building?" If the people are already in there, this won't create any new heat (unless they can somehow make the people do more work than they normally would). In fact, to move the heat around they are going to have to make people directly cold by removing the heat from their bodies! I don't see how this could be a good idea. Maybe it is, and I'm missing something, but I wish the article would address it.
      • iPissExcellence, on 01/14/2008, -6/+2"How are they going to get the heat from the people into the building?"

        By breathing I guess. (I bet most of you thought I was gonna say 'by dancing like aboriginals' or something like that, but I'm not 4.)
        • Azerael, on 01/14/2008, -3/+2Holy ***** how did you know I was going to think that???!!!11?!11one
    • Linkage155, on 01/14/2008, -1/+3Looks like they are simply moving the heat already created from one building to the other using heated water.
      • rollem, on 01/15/2008, -0/+1Exactly, there's enough heat in one section, so they're moving it to another.
      • TX972, on 01/18/2008, -0/+1Congratulations to Jernhuset, the owner of the railroad station, for having the balls to create a positive PR spin on a deliberate decision to freeze all those commuters by turning off the heat. Now let's solve the worldwide energy crisis by legislating that all places of human habitation are to be heated by the body heat of their residents. Brilliant! We might even be able to get gas pump prices down to less than a buck a gallon again by eliminating the demand for energy to heat buildings.
    • stoanhart, on 01/14/2008, -0/+7I agree with Linkage. Something seems wrong here. If you have a train station in the winter and you don't heat it, it gets very cold. That indicates that the people in the train station do not provide enough body heat to warm the station. So, to keep that train station warm, you must add heat on top of the body heat using some other source.

      Now, they are running pipes all over the train station that will collect that heat and pump it to a different building. So really, the new building which they are heating with "people heat" is really just stealing heat from the train station, which is most likely being heated by more than just body heat.
  • WillyF, on 01/14/2008, -2/+21Just think how much carbon these people are emitting! Methane too!
    • ufia, on 01/14/2008, -1/+9I emitted more methane as I was reading this post.
      • iPissExcellence, on 01/14/2008, -1/+2why the 'more'?
        • K31TH3R, on 01/14/2008, -1/+6Warning: If a fart joke goes over your head, the internet may not be the place for you.
    • SuperMoses, on 01/14/2008, -0/+2It's carbon that would be emitted regardless, why not use it.
  • Alix7, on 01/14/2008, -7/+13O'Reilly could power a city.
    • bingobongony, on 01/14/2008, -9/+3You mean with his huge popualarity?

      I'm just curious...is this really how sad and pathetic yur life is? You actually click on a link that has absolutely NOTHING to do with politics, or Fox News just because you feel a really pathetic need to inject your anti-Fox bitchfest into every conversation? No wonder you have no friends.
      • Murdats, on 01/14/2008, -1/+6are you sure its anti-fox?
        maybe he thinks they can generate power from his luminescent brilliance.
      • VinceNoir, on 01/14/2008, -0/+5Ever heard of a joke? How sad and pathetic is YOUR life if you can't see the humor in little light joke. I'm sure you've laughed at more than one joke about Bill Clinton's penis in arenas where there was no relevance. Lighten up a little. Humor is good for the soul. (And no snarky comments claiming it wasn't funny. You know it was funny unless you're an O'Reilly/Fox supporting tool) God, sometimes you Fox/O'Reilly backers are worse than the Linux and Windows zealots around here. Seriously man, chill.
        • bingobongony, on 01/14/2008, -7/+1Yeah...it was meant as a joke...riiiight.
          • VinceNoir, on 01/14/2008, -1/+1Victory is mine *****... How does it feel being alone?
          • Alix7, on 01/15/2008, -0/+2It was a joke, you stupid ***** idiot.
      • artanis, on 01/14/2008, -0/+5O'reilly is a full of hot air. Get it yet?
    • KingGorilla, on 01/14/2008, -0/+9Yes but that's wind power
  • meace1234, on 01/14/2008, -9/+2This doesnt sound like believable stuff. Maybe if the station was stacked from floor to that 50 ft high ceiling with living humans...then maybe you have enough mass at 98.6F.
    Speaking of methane see http://mrobvious.wordpress.com
  • bidentification, on 01/14/2008, -1/+9They do that same thing here in Minnesota at the Mall of America. No heat, it's all generated from the body heat of the visitors.
    • hellshark, on 01/14/2008, -0/+9So basically, they just don't turn on the heat at Mall of America. I wouldn't quite consider this to be cutting edge technology. Maybe the building is well insulated, poorly ventilated, and collects solar heat relatively efficiently, but the people just aren't going to produce that much heat.
      • Ramble, on 01/14/2008, -0/+1It's about 30C for everywhere over your body (probably hotter actually).
    • Sam6644, on 01/14/2008, -1/+0Thats what I was going to say.
    • marvinmatthew, on 01/14/2008, -0/+2But in this case, the heat from one building is being used/harnessed to heat another building.

      It's a little different.
    • jasdf, on 01/14/2008, -0/+3I believe the lighting makes up a larger percentage than the people.
    • XBSHX, on 01/14/2008, -1/+1I was going to mention this as well.
    • Zera, on 01/14/2008, -0/+2This is nothing new at all. All large buildings being built take into account how many people will be in the building, and on what schedule, and then compute roughly 70 watts of heat per person, and take that into account, not only for heating, but for air conditioning as well.
  • seanhive, on 01/14/2008, -6/+2Awesome
  • Dylson, on 01/14/2008, -13/+8Bury me.
  • VivaLaNation, on 01/14/2008, -1/+1soylent green reference...check
  • MrPlug, on 01/14/2008, -1/+2So they just turn off the heat in the building?
  • tehAleksandrRox, on 01/14/2008, -3/+15Porno sets have been using it for years.
  • Gondolieri, on 01/14/2008, -0/+2I believe they're using the heat _from_ the train station to heat a nearby complex

    "the heat generated will warm up water running through pipes which will be installed in the station. The water will be pumped to the new building and used to heat the spaces inside."
  • j34nn07, on 01/14/2008, -6/+2«That's hot» - Paris Hilton
  • marvinmatthew, on 01/14/2008, -0/+19"He said the body heat would warm up water that in turn would be pumped through pipes over to the new office building"

    I've gotta be honest here and say that it would be nice if they we're to be a bit more specific (or at least more specific than 'the body heat would warm up water'). This seems like an inefficient system.

    Firstly, I would think that human body heat (even the heat from thousands of people) would be difficult to concentrate around these pipes. Even putting the pipes in a high location (following the concept that heat tends to rise to the top of an enclosed area), would only heat the pipes by two or three degrees. Not to mention that the room in which the pipes are located would have to be pretty warm.

    Secondly, it would take quiet a substantial amount of energy to pump the water around this new building. It seems to me that the cost of the electricity to power the pumps to move the water around would come close to equaling the cost of the natural gas that you would need to provide the extra heat for the new building.

    I think that it would be more interesting to see the warm water in the pipes harnessed with a turbine and a generator, and used to create power.

    All of that being said, I'm sure the engineers have thought all of this out. I just wish that the article wasn't so vague. When I first read the stories description, these were the first questions that popped into my head. I'm digging it for being an interesting concept.
    • bingobongony, on 01/14/2008, -5/+4You said it yourself. You say the water can't possibly get any hotter than a couple degrees. So how much electricity could they possibly generate? And what are you goin gto do with that electricity? Use it to heat up the building?
      Seriously...think about it for a second...Who do you think knows a little more about how well this would work? EXPERTS who have actually studied the project, and have all the facts, or yo, who knows absolutely nothing about enegineering and are reading a brief article on it and using your completely non-expert GUESING that it won't work?
      Call me crazy, but I am going to go with the experts over you.
      • marvinmatthew, on 01/14/2008, -0/+1At the end of my comment I state 'I'm sure the engineers have thought all of this out'.

        I'm sure they know what they're doing, my point here is that it would be nice if they just explain it.
    • ZiggityZhang, on 01/14/2008, -1/+2They're simply trying to make use of the inefficiency of the human body, or all warm-blooded animals for that matter. Mammals waste so much energy through body heat it's ridiculous. It's nice to see someone try to make use of it.
      • nospinhere, on 01/14/2008, -2/+2Too bad it still doesn't work or make sense. Humans do not generate enough residual heat to radiate to pipes even at a very close distance. Even if they did, all they are doing is removing heat from the train station itself causing them to have to heat it more. ohh yeah, through in the cost of electricity to move the water in those pipes and you have a real fictitious story here. But I'm sure some tree huggers here will tell all their friends tomorrow about all these wonderful things the Swedes are doing and why the U.S. can't be more like them.
        • courtjester555, on 01/14/2008, -1/+1You have no facts, only an agenda. Shut it.
          • nospinhere, on 01/14/2008, -1/+1You're right, no facts, just the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.
          • marvinmatthew, on 01/14/2008, -0/+1I think that the end of your comment detracted from your argument: "I'm sure some tree huggers here will tell all their friends tomorrow about all these wonderful things the Swedes are doing and why the U.S. can't be more like them."
          • nospinhere, on 01/15/2008, -1/+1I don't care, the argument speaks for itself.
    • courtjester555, on 01/14/2008, -1/+2[citation needed]
  • ChileanGoD, on 01/14/2008, -1/+18Is it allowed to rub against some Swedish girls?.. You know.. anything to help the energy cause.
  • angrycat, on 01/14/2008, -0/+3Imagine how much energy you could get out of a box full of kittens.
  • tomisina, on 01/14/2008, -0/+2pshhh this is old. i've tried to use my body heat to heat my room for years.... i save on gas, but it's ***** freezing
  • bg2500, on 01/14/2008, -0/+4The Mall of America uses body heat also. In fact, even in cold Minnesota winters they have to run air conditioners to keep the place comfortable.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mall_of_America#Desig ...
  • orjan, on 01/14/2008, -0/+2In response to those asking for specifics on how they're going to do it:
    they will use heat pumps [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump]. A heat pump is essentially an inversed refrigerator. Instead of producing cooling, it produces heat.
    (Found out about the heat pumps from the Swedish Radio's website [http://mobil.sr.se/site/index.aspx?offset=8&artike ...
    Sorry, Swedish only.)
  • kd1s, on 01/14/2008, -1/+2I've often wondered about this. The reason being that I've noted when we have a houseful (6 or more people) the temperature automatically rises by 2 to 3 degrees F. Multiply that by hundreds and you've got a serious amount of heat. It's also why in many high rise office buildings the AC is on during winter.
  • EserVerx, on 01/14/2008, -0/+5That train station is going to smell like ass.
  • macwac, on 01/14/2008, -0/+2Hope they will keep the air-conditioning to get rid of the B.O
  • neio, on 01/14/2008, -0/+1Now if only we could think of something natural to keep us cool during summer.
  • Tyrghast, on 01/14/2008, -1/+1imagine how bad its going to smell...

    edit: ***** 3 people posted similar things above me, oh well...
  • KarlH, on 01/14/2008, -0/+0I commute there every day. My estimate is that more than half the heat comes from frustration with the late and overcrowded trains.
  • pingudownunder, on 01/14/2008, -0/+3Given how hot Swedish girls are, i'm not surprised ...
  • teaBagger, on 01/14/2008, -3/+1..and I use fart to heat the inside of my pants.

    but its just not cricket!
  • gkrat, on 01/14/2008, -0/+3I heat my apartment with computers, i have never turned on my furnace and i live in omaha (VERY cold winters, hot summers).
    When the heat was uneven i simply moved a file server into the other room :D

    Granted i pay up the ass in teh summer for cooling, but not as bad as it would be if i didn't start turning off the un used systems come march :D
  • DanOnTheMoon, on 01/14/2008, -1/+1At least the thing where the floor tiles touch together when you step on them kinda makes sense. This seems like nonsense, so, buried.
  • polarpaw, on 01/14/2008, -1/+1I knew the swedes were good for something.
  • Kerath, on 01/14/2008, -1/+2I'm 90% whoever wrote this article misunderstands what they're doing.
    • torontoliam, on 01/14/2008, -0/+1A schematic/diagram showing hot water, cold water and direction of flow would have been really helpful.
  • GeneralKickass, on 01/14/2008, -0/+5Sure could use some of those Swede chicks to heat my building.
  • charlietuna, on 01/14/2008, -0/+1Isn't this the same as insulating a building very very well?
    • torontoliam, on 01/14/2008, -0/+1Not exactly because insulating a building would mean that the human heat would help heat that particular building. This is using the human heat to heat another separate building. But you still have to wonder why they are doing this when they probably still have to heat the train station. Train stations tend to be drafty because the "piston effect" (trains pushing large volumes of air through tunnels).
      • Tippis, on 01/14/2008, -0/+1The Stockholm central station isn't built in a way that gives the piston effect. All trains arrive and depart from what essentially amounts to a roofed outside area, which is separate to the station hall.

        That said, yes, the building will still be heated, but the idea here is to gather the heat that would otherwise radiate out through the ceiling and recycle it for a second building. Basically, it's the same idea as partially heating an upper floor by the heat from a the lower floor, except in this case, the different "floors" are actually separate buildings.
  • darthom, on 01/14/2008, -0/+1Hello, coppertops.
  • trp5023, on 01/14/2008, -0/+1the matrix has you, neo...

    "people power" is by far the scariest sounding "renewable energy"...
  • drbonham, on 02/02/2008, -0/+0Here's a bit better article on the subject. They are not heating the train station, they are heating a building with the body heat generated by the people in the train station. http://environment.about.com/b/2008/01/11/now-that ...
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