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190 Comments
- professor357, on 11/12/2008, -44/+92Makes sense to me. But that's because I value human life more than any animal life.
And the same goes for using animals in research to aid in the cure of human diseases. - DevCodex, on 11/13/2008, -5/+51Doesn't the Navy realize the vital role of whales in the 23rd century?
- lockr, on 11/13/2008, -14/+48It's not the use of sonar that was debated, but the use of HIGH POWER sonar... No-one's saying that the Navy should stop using sonar
If someone thought it was a good idea to light up the country with super bright lights that blind us in the interest of national security, would that be a good idea? It's a fair analogy - RajAtWork, on 11/12/2008, -9/+35dugg for title
- ginogrz, on 11/13/2008, -15/+39No surprises here. My dad is a diver and he has seen multiple porpoises who were bleeding from their ears/mouths out by a naval base. There's no doubt that this ***** is ***** up many different types of sea life.
- inactive, on 11/13/2008, -6/+28*ping*
"What?"
*ping*
"Can't hear you!"
*ping*
"Court is adjourned." - authorfriendly, on 11/12/2008, -13/+34But some research can be done without harming animals, and our coasts can be guarded much better than they currently are with less harm to animals. Its rarely an either/or proposition, but it takes will and a certain concern for others to do things (research or coastal protection) the right way.
- JasonCox, on 11/13/2008, -12/+31I'm pretty sure that detecting foreign boomers is alot more important than a bunch of whales. I mean call me uncaring, but keeping an eye on all the Akulas, Typhoons and other active sub classes in the sea takes precedence over the whales.
- randall82, on 11/13/2008, -9/+27I don't know why, but I'm really tired of Americans using our national security as a reason to justify everything. We have nuclear weapons all over the globe and bases in hundreds of foreign countries, but if any other country did the same thing we'd fly around the world and kick their asses. Until we start getting rid of our bombs, I don't see how we can tell others they have to. When we cease to be the only superpower, all this animosity we've been festering all over the globe is going to come back and bite us in the ass...and when it does, I'm telling everyone I'm Canadian...
- mycoplasma, on 11/13/2008, -0/+16Damn, you beat me to the Star Trek jokes. +1 digg for your superior reflexes.
- papashawn, on 11/13/2008, -0/+13So long, and thanks for the fish.
- auricomnet, on 11/13/2008, -3/+15China's Navy is a large threat. When I was in the Corps stationed on a amphib assault ship there was two separate instances where Chinese Subs successfully infiltrated our Strike Group and even surfaced to scare us.
- natesnotjewish, on 11/13/2008, -10/+22My dad is a diver and he has never seen this. Any other divers' children that want to chime in?
- pintomp3, on 11/13/2008, -5/+17in the name of national security we have given up our civil liberties and now proceed to wipe out nature.
- Chjoma10, on 11/13/2008, -14/+25If people knew anything about Russian submarines, and how G'damn close they can get to the US without our military noticing, no one would give a ***** about whales.....
-Navy - raybury, on 11/13/2008, -1/+12There've been repeated "temporary accommodations" to the emotional environmentalists. The environmentalism I signed up for 20 years ago was based on science, not mindless tree-hugging.
- PuterPrsn, on 11/12/2008, -10/+20And what is "the right way"? There is currently no substitute for sonar.
- charlottehughes, on 11/12/2008, -6/+15I wouldnt go so far as to say "no proof" but the science is inconclusive. Could have been solved to both sides satisfaction with a temporary accomodation and further research. But we have been polarized for so long its a reflexive thing.
- Chjoma10, on 11/13/2008, -6/+15We aren't doing that...and never will... pretty extreme comment. Get realistic you son of a bitch
- zacharytelschow, on 11/13/2008, -1/+10The Cold War may be over, but based on Russia's behavior and animosity, they haven't gotten the message.
- youliveinfear, on 11/12/2008, -14/+22The polarized supreme court votes along party lines yet again I see..I'm actually surprised that all four left leaning judges voted against it..It seems to me the use of sonar is a reasonable need that at least one or two should agree with that.
- slvrbullet87, on 11/13/2008, -1/+9@Loco
Why would anybody attack anybody... to get something they other person has... remember the chinese can be just as crazy as anybody else - Buelldozer, on 11/13/2008, -2/+10key words "You are a moron". Only ONE of the judges was a Bush appointee.
- snowpunter, on 11/13/2008, -2/+10Re-verify our range to target... one ping only.
Captain, I - I - I just...
Give me a ping, Vasili. One ping only, please. - Buelldozer, on 11/13/2008, -3/+11Yes because, the "Be Friendly" approach has worked so well in places like Germany, Darfur, Somalia, Bosnia, Serbia, and North Korea. Seriously, when are you peaceniks going to wake up and realize that the world doesn't function on "Kum-by-yah" and campfire gatherings?
- ZenMojo, on 11/13/2008, -6/+13My dad's from Africa and he's never seen a rhinoceros. Hence, there are none in Africa.
- ChonoonFiend, on 11/13/2008, -9/+16When you can make a burger w/o a cow, I'll consider it.
- inactive, on 11/13/2008, -24/+31Looks like the good guys won this one. Excellent!
- Clbck, on 11/13/2008, -6/+13Slippery slope does not hold up here. I suppose if killing every animal was somehow beneficial to us in the long term, then yes?
- FreshPineSent, on 11/13/2008, -7/+14NUKE THE WHALES
- charlottehughes, on 11/12/2008, -1/+7I dont think this article has much bias, it seems fairly even handed and most of the comments have agreed with the Supremes. I dont think that the science is conclusive, but a good willed executive branch could have found a middle ground.
- Chjoma10, on 11/13/2008, -0/+6Try being friendly with Russia?
Have you EVER been to a movie? They're *****....always - inactive, on 11/13/2008, -3/+9Sadly, in the USA if you have enough money and enough weapons you can pretty much do what ever you want. Come to think of it, that's true just about every where in the world. Kill the humans! It's the only way to save the planet!
- Wade, on 11/13/2008, -0/+6"I hear the jury's still out on science." - G.O.B.
- Ruger11mcrdpi, on 11/13/2008, -3/+8For all you who are uninformed, there are two basic forms of sonar (I'll keep this very simple). Active and passive.
Passive sonar is just like having a microphone to the ocean. A big computer listens to the sea and tries to match sounds to ships or submarines, etc. Active sonar is when we send out a "ping" or a pulse of sound waves that bounce off objects then return to the sending vessel and create an image of what is out there. This is what they are trying to ban.
The problem is, if we create a giant "no active sonar zone" off the coast of the Us, then guess where any enemy sub is gonna sit and collect data on our weapons? - NeptuneZen, on 11/13/2008, -2/+7Well.... why don't we try being friendly with the Germans and not pushing them away like we've done previously? Seriously, world war I is over.
See how history repeats itself? - zacharytelschow, on 11/13/2008, -3/+8We can't just put off everything for further research. We need to protect our coasts regardless.
- Brian48216, on 11/13/2008, -0/+5you find them using passive sonar.
Active sonar is used with hesitation because it gives your position away. - Skab, on 11/13/2008, -5/+10If you can show me a porpoises ears i'll believe you. And I'm pretty sure your dad would be fried as well, since sonar kills navy divers if the OS's don't know they are working aloft and are retarded.
- pintomp3, on 11/13/2008, -0/+5what do whales have to do with 9/11? is that you giuliani?
- inactive, on 11/13/2008, -3/+8Because China and Russia are shining examples of the kind of country we want to be.
- chukd, on 11/13/2008, -2/+7Obama isn't the savior of the world. You are greatly mistaken if you think he can give you half the stuff he promised when he ran for election. Furthermore, he would never give such an executive order that would disable the training ability of the US Navy. It would be a disaster for him in 4 years.
- inactive, on 11/13/2008, -5/+10i wish whales could make really loud sounds that would annoy humans.
- mbraynard, on 11/13/2008, -2/+7Come on - the high powered sonar is bad enough, now you want to give them sepsis?
- ginogrz, on 11/13/2008, -6/+11They do have small ear holes. Also, my dad wasn't underwater when the event occurred, just saw messed up dolphins (woops, typo, I meant dolphins not porpoises) in the vicinity of a naval base where they frequently test naval equipment and stranded on the surrounding islands. It was probably an exaggeration to say that there's no doubt that it was sonar, but the correlation is there.
Just googled it and found a few articles about it in other regions:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10151983/
http://www.perlgurl.org/archives/2006/05/sonar_str ...
Also the naval base I'm talking about is the one on San Clemente Island:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Clemente_Island - mbraynard, on 11/13/2008, -7/+12No, we don't. And animals look at us the same way.
Animals have their utility to us and that's why they are still around. - inactive, on 11/13/2008, -4/+8Riiiight ... how could 240 dB of sonar possibly hurt anything?
From the navy's own tests: 240 dB noise in water produces 150 dB up to at least 100 miles away from the transmitting vessel ... 160 decibels causes a lung resonance that induce "significant decrements in vestibular function." ... lung hemorrhaging was observed in rodents exposed to 170-184 decibels.
http://www.oceanmammalinst.org/mgpaper.html
Noise transmitted in air kills human hearing tissue at a mere 180 dB:
http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.h ... - mycoplasma, on 11/13/2008, -0/+4Our massive stockpile of nuclear weapons is the best way to scare other countries into not using their stockpiles of nuclear bombs.
Sure the world would be a better place if nobody had nukes, but if we dump ours and nobody else does, then all we'll be doing is increasing the possibility that other countries will use theirs. - randall82, on 11/13/2008, -3/+7We still have thousands and it only took 2 to change the history of an entire nation. I guess as long as we've gone down from having 10 thousand that's okay, right?
- MadameMorticia, on 11/13/2008, -5/+9Disrupting peaceful, gentle creatures like whales, so that we humans can create even more mistrust & ill-will amongst ourselves. What a wonderful world we're creating! Who wouldn't be proud to be a member of humanity today?
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