What is Digg?99 Comments
- EntropyMan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+36Actually, no, they're switching to ethanol because a) ethanol can be homegrown vs. imported oil, b) ADM pays big bucks to Washington, and c) the first Presidential primaries have historically begun in corn-growing states.
Ethanol does not protect the environment, hence it is not green. At best, I'd call it yellow, which is a step up from "charcoal gray," but a very small step. Ethanol is reportedly not cheaper overall, even if it is grown vs. pumped from the ground. It still takes energy to convert the corn into ethanol, and burning it still releases CO2. - blablaman, on 10/12/2007, -3/+22We need the guy who invented the color-coded threat level to work his magic with the environmental threat level.
- airiox, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14ethanol also increases the price of food. Corn is used in practically everything. If you want to start paying up the wazoo for food, go ahead and force ethanol.
You want the solution to the foreign oil dilema? Start converting coal into diesel. We have enough coal to last us thousands of years and it just so happens producing this diesel is cheaper than what the price per barrel is now.
Nuclear Energy, Wind Energy and Solar power plus Coal converted to diesel = energy crisis solved. And to reduce the price of gasoline/diesel, we need to start opening new refinery's. - Amorrn, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16@mace01
And the power that charges the electric engines will come from...where? - kenvsryu, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13Ethanol can't be good since when you poop there's always corn!
- craftyguy, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13Causes more problems? Check.
Kills more people? Check.
Sound like a viable solution to me!
/Politician logic - Hentez, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11This is not good science... Trying to prove a causal relationship between smog and lung diseases is almost impossible.. There are to many variables, (Genetics, smoking, age, SES, Region, and the list continues) which can effect the outcome, not to mention that trying to quantify how much exposure one person gets is another major sticking point. Also the author of the paper is a Civil Engineering (not someone who we should be taking medical advise from)
- ohearn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10They are also estimating an increase in deaths by 200 in a country with over 300 million people. I want to know what the level of precision of this study is. It may be that those 200 deaths are less than the error tolerance of the study.
- Cougaboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9@Trghpy, Amorrn, tankmaniawar
Then you could just move to Washington state....75% of our power is hydroelectric. - Billiam627, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8A carbon-based fuel alternative is never a good idea. But IMHO anytime we are thinking green we are at least taking steps in the right direction. I would like to see more efficient gas/electric hybrids.
- tankmaniawar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@mace01(and Amorrn since we posted at the same time)
except how do u think people produce electricity...
they burn "fossil fuels" - fkr3, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5The best solution is obviously aquaducts and paddle boats for many reasons, but mostly because ....
- No more emissions
- No more fat women
- 24/7 wet shirt competitions
- fit chicks in bikinis, every time you go out
- road accidents where families get drenched instead of crushed by 25 tonnes of truck
- you could swim up underneath your friends boats and capsize them
- your kids won't want to borrow your paddle boat because they can walk faster - jeff303, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Study: studies (excluding this one) often used to push political agendas
- xturmn8r, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Hrmm... CH3CH2OH + O2 --> H2O .... .... .... *head esplodes*
- lulzlulzlulz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Smog, Deaths, and DRUNKENNESS
Let's look at this in perspective - rarson, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7"And the power that charges the electric engines will come from...where?"
Solar panels, wind energy, geothermal power, etc. - drlha, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Translation: America is always finding new and ingenious ways to subsidise the corn industry, even if it hurts people's health (HFCS) and the environment (corn based ethanol).
- mikeazorin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Wait... 200 deaths a year? That's more than none, but on the grand scale of things it's very little compared to other problems that claim tens of thousands.
- mancat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5cougaboy,
And yet the "green energy" hippies want to tear the dams down because they kill some ***** fish. - AmishRefugee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Study: making fuel out of corn is so irresistibly pro-american that it will most likely never be stopped. This country has a monstrous thirst for fuel and a so much corn that people are inventing ways to use it (as opposed to not making so much)
- Barbarino, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'll sacrifice 200 people a year if we can stop buying from the middle east, in fact it would save more lives.
- nakile, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7I bet Exxon or one of those guys did this "study."
- philodygmn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4MTBE is still worse, and don't forget both it and ethanol are unnecessary filler present specifically to increase profits (if you'll thin the gas, use something non-toxic, hello? like gasoline's not already a heinous idea and no that doesn't make piling on the hurt OK).
- lordsandwich, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Crude and shallow but I ***** laughed anyway.
- vikingcoder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The US imports more from Canada than they do from the entire middle east. They import ~4x more from Mexico than they do from Iraq.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html - xturmn8r, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I was listening to Thomas Lovejoy this friday (he coined the term biodiversity, founded the Nature TV series, as well as a slew of other accomplishments), he was also under the impression that corn based ethanol was a non-sustainable item. He said we'd probably be much better off developing cellulosic ethanol technologies, for use in plants such as switchgrass and tallgrasses. As an added benefit, they love to dump off their nitrogen into the soil when it comes time to harvest. It's win:win.
- Cutkomp, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Did they conduct the study with fuel derived from hemp? It's much more efficient than corn for fuel.
- Stevethegreat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"@mace01(and Amorrn since we posted at the same time)
except how do u think people produce electricity...
they burn "fossil fuels""
Uhmmm, electricity can as easily be produced by nuclear reactors which are thousands of times more eco-friendly and efficient than fossil fuels. The car industry uses ancient fueling system already, we live in the era of electricity -the late part of the Industrial Revolution- and we're still using fossil fuels which are chronologically a 50year prior technology. The fossil fuel burning cars could had been turned into electric ones 30 years now, but the economic inertia of an unbalanced capitalistic system backfired, oil companies already were -by then- disproportionately more powerful to their "energy" competitors and they game the market ever since.
It's not hard to guess that electric cars will really gain the acceptance they deserve by the industries (and the researchers through them), when/after oil companies' power has been diminished and their lobby is weak enough to change the route of whole industries. It may come 50 years after it's realistic inception (that could had been), but an innovation system backfires from time to time and this is pretty much understandable ... - mta3d, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4it takes more than a litre of gasoline to produce a litre of ethanol - when considering transport, fertilizers etc.
its a big earner for farmers (which are big companies.. there are not many farmer joes any more).
thats what i learnt from the west wing anyway ;) - Poovey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I have an Idea. Lets use our farmlands to grow food and get resources that are right here in our own country to supplement our fuel needs (i.e. coal, nuclear power, solar and the vast amount of black gold that remains untapped).
- bloobloo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Except CO2 can mix in an unlimited amount in the air. Water can only build up until the air is saturated, and there is a well known method for removing it from the atmosphere. It is called rain.
- Ender06, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@ EntropyMan
True, that and ethanol is only has about 60 percent stored energy as compared to gasoline. So we would have to fill up more often and burn more ethanol. - crestfall, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4THIS JUST IN: Going to war for oil kills more than 200 people.
- Poovey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Don't even think it! We DON'T need to grow hemp for fuel or for rope or for clothes or any other stupid idea. Let's grow good quality hemp for 1 purpose, really good smoke.
- swgc5, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Battery electric is the only way to go.
- drlha, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6No "Liberal" worth his salt should be for corn based ethanol. Its all to do with the corn lobby and nothing to do with being green.
- Ender06, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2We're trying to move AWAY from black gold and coal because of their emissions. Nuclear (Fusion ESPECIALLY) and solar are good. I think if this country would only put nuclear fusion first on its list of energy priorities we would have a limitless amount of clean energy. (If anyone has heard of the ITER) It would cost 50 billion to build.... But we would be able to build over 8 ITERs with the money that we wasted on the war on terror.
- apeweek, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Electric power is the greenest option, because of the high efficiency of the electric car - and the universal nature of the power source - anything can be converted efficiently into electrical power. Nothing beats the electric motor for efficiency - better than 90%.
Electric power has the most efficient distribution system. Charging by wire from the grid is about 95% efficient. Every other fuel option involves far less efficient delivery via trucks, pipelines and/or ships.
High efficiency translates into less pollution per mile - because less fuel is being burned per mile, regardless of how dirty it is. But don't forget there are plenty of clean fuel options, too.
The efficiency argument is easily proved. Electric cars get about 5 miles per KWH, which sells for about 3 to 10 cents (off-peak rates.) This is only a penny or two per mile - MUCH less than gasoline, or any other alt-fuel option.
More info: http://www.squidoo.com/cheap-electric-car/ - earlycj5, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Electric engines? To keep it simple, last I checked, engines produce power internally on their own (internal combustion for example) and motors used external energy sources. Electricity would be an external electricity source. So what's an "electric engine"?
- elementdan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2twist away
- wolphkaat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3You're exactly right and corn ethanol's dirty secret is that the coal used to produce the heavy amounts of anhydrous ammonia needed for corn production produce alot of greenhouse gases and pollution. Sugar cane and switch grass are a much better alternative, and could be imported much cheaper from south america (or grown in the US) if the US would drop its import quota on ethanol.
- chase001, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2This is public service announcement brought to you by your local oil companies.
- legatus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+21 Ethanol will ruin a non flex fuel engine if over 10% is used. 2. Ethanol replaces 10% of the fuel at the pump yet causes up to 27% reduced economy, a net loss. 3. Ethanol uses hundreds of gallons of water to convert per gallon. Corn is a very inefficient source of ethanol, it's use is due to farm lobbyist. 4. Ethanol is heavily subsidized and still costs more than oil based fuel. 5. From the mouth of ADM "if we plant every available acre in corn we can only produce 19% of the fuel supply and that leaves none for food, human or animal.
I could go into how the hybrids cost more over their lifespan in energy than a hummer but that would really twist your noodle. - rarson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"P.S. If you think that 200 million cars in the US spewing off water vapor is going to have a smaller impact on our climate than CO2 emissions, then you need to stop listening to bigots."
Newsflash: burning hydrocarbons produces water.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas - Shadwell, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Hey, Ethanol is not a perfect solution but its one of the most viable steps in the right direction. People are great at looking at new ideas and concepts and pointing out what isn't perfect. Ethanol and Bio-diesel are fundamentally important first steps to take to wean our country off of fossil fuels and the political issues surrounding oil interests. Let's not put our hands in our pockets and wait around until we find solution that everyone, or every potential computer model says is the best one because it will never happen. We need to phase in alternative energy, and this is a critical first step.
- ersatzphi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2This is sensationalist news in general, you can easily catalyze the exhaust from an ethanol combustion process the same way catalytic converters were utilized for gasoline engines. This article is crap.
- turbodigg, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3This is probably put out by George bush, or the oil companies. Plus, ethanol is meant to reduce fossil fuel usage, not smog.
- digitalarcanum, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Anyone please do feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but what about converting renewable sources of energy (i.e. geothermal, hydroelectric, solar and wind) into hydrogen fuel? I think that would be a perfect alternative.
- wtfersk8s, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Survival of the fittest FTW
- carbontwelve, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1ohnoes 200 more people... stfu already with your missinformed news :| Alcohol burns clean, it doesn't cause smog, its the dirty fuel that petrol companies mix it with that causes the dirty air. Anyways whats another 200 a year, thats less than a hunderedth of a percent of the population on earth - like its actually going to make any difference in the long run? Stop thinking short term for heavens sake.
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