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213 Comments
- WordsnCollision, on 11/10/2009, -1/+221Nobody expects the Spanish Electrician!
- jonstewart24, on 11/11/2009, -3/+82Don Quixote would be proud.
- illinest, on 11/10/2009, -10/+66the article is good news, but the digg headline is retarded. there are still major challenges associated with using wind or solar related to the changeable nature of the output and until those engineering challenges are met it will still be necessary to provide a majority of our electricity through means that produce a more consistent output such a coal, oil, natural gas, hydro, or nuclear.
Setting one green power against another green power is counterproductive and was not (in my eyes) the intent of the original author anyways. - najeebs, on 11/10/2009, -8/+57Heartening news to hear... Good to know that green and clean energy is viable.
- 1rage, on 11/11/2009, -1/+44While it wouldn't be 100% efficient, pumping water back to the upstream side of a damn is a cool way to store excess energy for future use. I never heard of that before.
- dig106pm, on 11/11/2009, -4/+46If you read the original article, the 53% was only for a couple of hours on the weekend. They HOPE to have 25%, at year end, coming from wind+hydro+solar. Really misleading article from ecofriend.
- Countess666, on 11/11/2009, -2/+38read the article.
"all that excess energy was used by hydroelectric plants to pump water back into their dams for future electricity generation."
after a few years of operation they will be able to give a average power generation estimate, and Spain can base the rest of their energy-grid off of that, with a appropriate level of over capacity (something that's always needed because of possible maintenance or breakdown, no matter what generates the power) - kingpinmicky, on 11/11/2009, -2/+37Spain is an undeveloped nation? A nation with a top ten GDP and a top 15 HDI ranking? I think you may have Spain confused with someplace else...
- qwertasdf12, on 11/11/2009, -1/+36It's about 85% efficient, called pumped hydro
- anonymousmedic, on 11/11/2009, -11/+43Hmm. Comparing wind power to nuclear power is a laughable thing. Nuclear power isn't unreliable, dependant on weather, and produces a massive amount of power in comparison with the amount of generators needed.
- enantiodromia, on 11/11/2009, -9/+41Look, friends, the PROBLEM with this as a "solution" for AMERICA'S energy problems, is simple! I can't believe I'm the only one SMART enough, and with enough GUTS to point this one out, friends.
We just don't have ANY Spanish Wind in our beloved country!
You can't farm Spanish Wind, if all you have is American Wind. Maybe the America hating Lefties just don't love our country enough to come up with a way to farm American wind... think about that. - theCoffee, on 11/11/2009, -3/+25You know what? I have the solution.
Nuclear hydro, solar, bio-diesel, windmill dams managed by an infrastructure of human brains connected through a matrix like interface. - illinest, on 11/11/2009, -5/+27I was a nuclear reactor operator and I know a bit about radiation, enough to assure you that the threat suggested by opponents of nuclear power is always overstated and sometimes deliberately misleading.
For example: if they talk about 5 tons of nuclear waste it sounds like an awful lot, but considering the density of uranium that would actually fit in a single 55 gallon oil drum. They use weight rather than volume because it sounds more impressive, you see?
Another example: They tell you that the entire volume of spent fuel is highly radioactive with a half-life of tens of thousands of years, but they don't tell you that 90% of the fuel assembly can be recycled and that the bit that can't be recycled is constituted of a variety of daughter products with varying half-lives, some long, some short, some highly dangerous, some considerably less dangerous.
I'm also aware of the contributing factors that lead to the accidents at Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, and a few smaller incidents that you've never even heard of. ;-)
I can assure you a nuclear accident on the scope of Chernobyl is not possible without deliberate mismanagement and if you know a little bit about what happened at Chernobyl I'm sure you'd agree that some of the poor decisions made that day were tantamount to sabotage. Even then it would require a mass collusion of conspirators. No one person could ever pull it off alone.
I worked at Three Mile Island for 6 months and I can assure you the security is very tight. You would not believe how well protected that place is. There's a system of multiple turnstiles, badges, handprint scanners and then more turnstiles just to get into the perimeter and the entire plant is ringed with layers of concrete barriers and there's sniper towers all over the place. Even if you did get in there's guards patrolling inside with M-16s and that's just the steam plant. The actual Reactor Compartment is a concrete vault so thick that it wouldn't surprise me if even a 747 couldn't penetrate it, and that's assuming you've got an incredible pilot who's able to approach it from the one side that's partially exposed and hit a target that's only a few stories tall.
Even then the reactor vessel is a huge steel cannister so you can't just penetrate the Reactor Compartment, you'd need to penetrate it so hard that you still have momentum enough to breach the reactor itself. - blankmedia, on 11/11/2009, -1/+22and we'll never hear from this again
- AmnesiacJack, on 11/11/2009, -2/+20I'm still wondering what is so hard about harnessing the oceans tides that we haven't done that yet.
The ocean is on 24/7 - trolleyfan, on 11/11/2009, -1/+19"The ocean is on 24/7"
Yes. Unfortunately, so is the corrosion caused by seawater... - lifeasariver, on 11/11/2009, -1/+18Spain, underdeveloped? Were you parachuted from the moon this week? Your profile says "A 31 year-old transgender from Madison, 'sonsin" so I'll stop here.
- BossKey, on 11/11/2009, -2/+19Underdeveloped with no industry? There are Amtrak lines in the US using high-speed Talgo trains imported from Spain!
I'll think about what you said the next time I ride the AVE bullet train at 186 mph from Seville to Madrid, on my way to boarding an Airbus jetliner partially assembled in Seville. - BossKey, on 11/11/2009, -1/+17Yeah, but you're not going to argue for the removal of skyscrapers based on the number of birds that are killed by them, are you?
- qwertasdf12, on 11/11/2009, -3/+18Funny they don't mention the cost of wind farms vs nuclear...
- wonderchemist, on 11/10/2009, -1/+15Deli sliced meat without the trip to the deli. Big plus in my book.
- ricorurik, on 11/11/2009, -1/+15I don't usually stoop to this, but you are an idiot.
- TSK05, on 11/11/2009, -1/+14Spain is a first world country..
- m4vtch, on 11/11/2009, -1/+14I don't think you even know where Spain is.
- pilot3033, on 11/11/2009, -3/+15because you said so? facts don't work that way, things aren't untrue because you will them to be.
- jopsa, on 11/11/2009, -0/+12walk everywhere? hand wash our own clothes? wow, seriously? just the other day I took my donkey to the local electrical appliance market and got myself a washing machine! 21st century living baby!
- 1longtime, on 11/11/2009, -0/+12I just envisioned Neptune chewing out his kids for leaving the ocean on.
"I'm not wasting good money to rhythmically submerge dry land!"
Yeah, it would be just like that... - inactive, on 11/11/2009, -0/+11I hate the fact my fellow Australians are so petrified to use nuclear energy. Europe, Japan, China, Russia, US all use it. We've got massive amounts of uranium but I think it's still costly time and money wise =/
- Ymeg, on 11/11/2009, -3/+14we need antimatter as an energy source.
- directedition, on 11/11/2009, -2/+13from the anti-christ, obviously.
- stompk291, on 11/10/2009, -6/+17"yeah, but you should see the birds smack em" ;-)
- DarkStar3333, on 11/11/2009, -1/+12Sort of like the act of mining, transporting and burning coal? Or mining, containing and indefinitely storing radioactive material?
- archiesteel, on 11/11/2009, -1/+12Safety has improved a lot, certainly, but it's still inaccurate to claim that nuclear energy is clean, even if the amount of waste is very compact. It still represents a health hazard that needs its own infrastructure to safely handle and dispose of it.
Nuclear fuel management is also a complex, highly-sensitive affair. Just look at the ongoing negotiations to Iran, it's pretty obvious it's nothing simple!
I'm not opposed to nuclear energy, mind you, however I do believe there are other, safer energy sources that need further deployment. Ultimately, a mixed energy policy is the best bet. - BossKey, on 11/11/2009, -1/+11If they're both performing comparably and I had to choose, I would still rather see the worst possible wind farm disaster as opposed to an accident involving a nuclear plant* or, far more likely, nuclear waste disposal or its "redirection..." you'll never hear of spent wind farm materials making their way to countries where they'll make bombs out of them.
*I am well aware that modern nuclear plant designs are pretty safe. - Super6, on 11/11/2009, -1/+11Uh, Spain is the 3rd world?
- bkurilko, on 11/11/2009, -2/+11[insert shut the ***** up]
- Culyt, on 11/11/2009, -1/+10Most modern turbines spin fairly slow and are much less likely to kill birds.
Also compare to how many things die due to things like coal, pollution, mining, caught in power cables and so on for the same amount of energy.
http://www.awea.org/faq/sagrillo/swbirds.html
It also seems like there are 2 oil spills a year on average (although it appears to be increasing). Don't know how much wildlife an oil spill kills but turbines don't kill many birds "...that a bird will collide with a given wind machine no more than approximately once every 8 to 15 years."
A lot of that is propaganda from the wind industry though so it's going to have some bias. - bmw7777, on 11/11/2009, -0/+9Spain is right next to Ethiopia, man you people are so stupid. So yes, it's a 3rd world country. They have no cars there either. There is no running water. I sponsor a Spanish child from Save the Children.
/sarcasm
ChinaLumberjack, wtf really??? I never knew a Top 10 country in terms of GDP could be a 3rd world country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_ ... - 0v3rk1ll, on 11/11/2009, -3/+12Yes indeed. Contrary to the malignant oil industry's claims, we CAN live off green energy like wind and solar power. These bastards just don't know how to accept that their time has come. Just like the dinosaurs, they had their time, now it's green energy's turn.
- snafflepaffle, on 11/11/2009, -0/+8Yes. Now how are we going to get anti-matter again?
- howdareyou, on 11/11/2009, -2/+10What "truth" are you 4?
- bioviral, on 11/11/2009, -2/+9I doubt a munch of fearsome beasts attacking your beautiful village would be something to be proud of.
- Ymeg, on 11/11/2009, -1/+8magic
but we can't use magic as an energy source. It's just a technicality. - newoccupant, on 11/11/2009, -1/+8Don't mind him, he's from Barcelona.
- jamdogg, on 11/11/2009, -1/+8@ChinaLumberjack
Give up whatever you want.
The rest of us who can read a title will use more power with the *outperforming* green energy as it evolves. - DeskFlyer, on 11/11/2009, -0/+7http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_power
- localzuk, on 11/11/2009, -3/+10What does the amount of generators have to do with it? A nuclear site takes up a lot of space - giant buildings... A wind farm can be placed on land which is also used for other things - they're just big poles!
Wind can make use of various storage systems - salt storage, water storage etc... So, whilst they don't always produce the exact right amount, they will have produced more than that at various times, powering storage facilities which can then provide the power needed. - Hardataq, on 11/11/2009, -3/+9Good thing, too. Now we won't have to steal weapons-grade plutonium from the Libyans to power our DMC 12's.
- InactiveUser, on 11/11/2009, -0/+6Snowy Mountains has recovery as well.
Powers both Melbourne and Sydney
http://www.snowyhydro.com.au/levelTwo.asp?pageID=6 ...
This one has a high cost closing down 3 rivers and mostly is used to power Air conditioners now.
Solar power and wind power could offset the volts and allow for more water into the rivers creating better habbitats.
The Snowy was one of Australia's wildest rivers.
http://www.snowymountains.com.au/The_Snowy_River.h ... - Brak710101, on 11/11/2009, -0/+6We should go to Spain and take over their wind farms, and then ship over the electricity on big ships with batteries in the hull.
Hey... Wait a minute.... (/s) -
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