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100 Comments
- JustinNoland, on 06/25/2009, -15/+41Yay, nanny state!
- Barackalypse, on 06/25/2009, -3/+20The same wall all good Fascists and Communists enforce laws, with tattletale children and busybody neighbors!
- Animan351, on 06/25/2009, -5/+18Hooray for another ***** law! Most recycling does more harm than good. It's less harmful to the environment to plant a new tree to replace the on you cut down instead of recycling the paper that only takes about one month to decompose.I guess they want to burn up more fossil fuels instead.
- Ishiguro, on 06/25/2009, -3/+13I won't lie, the attitude of the greenies encourage me not to recycle. There always greenpeace people stopping others in the street to ask questions, and I want to punch all of them, or at least berate them for not picking up the trash on the sidewalks.
As an enviromental hating righty, let me help your enviros who truly want to help. Focus on conservation. Not sea kittens or "recycle or die" Righties can support some clean air, and water, just don't let the depopulation people write your talking points. - Barackalypse, on 06/25/2009, -2/+12Society is a farce without freedom. If you want to be an insect and devote yourself to some myopic collectivist utopia, go right ahead, but I'm not playing.
- Barackalypse, on 06/25/2009, -2/+11You do realize that biodegradable material causes just as much pollution as it degrades in a compost heap as it does if it degrades in a landfill, right?
- Barackalypse, on 06/25/2009, -0/+6Can you show me where you make money off it, every other urban recycling program I know of loses money.
- emt1451, on 06/25/2009, -10/+16Great. More big government.
- Protonz, on 06/25/2009, -3/+9The concern I have is that things like this spread. Like all the anti-smoking laws for example.
- r3s0p, on 06/25/2009, -1/+7Hey, if San Franciscans like this measure, more power to them. I don't like that style of government, personally, but I wasn't planning on moving there anyway.
- GovernmentsGun, on 06/25/2009, -6/+11I like the guys gay marriage ideas, but other than that, he seems to want to be a little dictator. But then again, what politician doesn't?
- funkedup, on 06/25/2009, -2/+7"if you don't want to play then we'll force you to play, idiot wingnut."
Spoken like a true liberal! - inactive, on 06/25/2009, -5/+10Maybe cue the let-wingers who immediately worry about what the right wingers are going to do.
- NMRgentleman, on 06/25/2009, -4/+9Actually, you bring up a better point that you realize, because the green movement has really screwed up if their goal is to save the planet. There are a lot of ways you could go about doing that, but they've largely elected to do it through force via government legislation. Furthermore, as people like the founder of Greenpeace have stated, they've allowed the movement to be coopted by politicians who use the guise of environmentalism to push for barely related social and economic programs.
As a result, instead of people uniting to fight supposed environmental problems like global warming, they are some of the most polarizing issues in the nation. And as you say, plenty of people are now dedicated to actively fighting the environmental movement, and plenty also jokingly (or maybe some even seriously) take steps in intentional opposition to the green program. - r3s0p, on 06/25/2009, -3/+8Because people need to know about bad ideas that are getting a foothold in government. Sort of a 'stupid trends to look for' public service announcement.
- r3s0p, on 06/25/2009, -0/+5It seems part of the motivation may be lack of landfill space rather than living the green dream.
http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/SF-expected-to-exh ...
Best part of the article: San Francisco Environment Department Acting Director David Assman. - pin0chet, on 06/25/2009, -0/+4Just because you recycle doesn't mean everyone does. Voluntary recycling is one thing; when the government is slapping fines on people for what they put in their garbage cans, there is something seriously wrong going on.
- inactive, on 06/25/2009, -8/+12Wow South Park was right, they do smell their own farts and now they recycle them too.
- catalysis, on 06/25/2009, -14/+18Cue the right-wingers who refuse to recycle purely out of spite.
- emjaymj, on 06/25/2009, -0/+4just precious metals and aluminum? just about all metals are worth recycling, like copper for instance.
BUT, if you bothered to even pay attention to the description, what's unique about what SF is doing is that they're requiring COMPOSTING. - goldenpacker, on 06/25/2009, -3/+7The only real concern is how are they going to enforce this law?
- SandWraith, on 06/25/2009, -0/+4@Barackalypse: I don't think the issue is the compostables degrading and causing pollution, but rather that 1) they take up space in landfills and 2) they have a lot of fertilizer value that is wasted by dumping them in landfills. Also, things don't degrade quickly at all when thrown in sealed plastic bags.
- sprkoolguy, on 06/25/2009, -2/+6I REFUSE to separate my foot material
- kukurio, on 06/25/2009, -0/+3While you're right about the direct costs, Barackalypse, you have to consider the opportunity costs. Compost can be used to improve crop yields, thereby reducing the need for fertilizer, which is mostly oil-based. Every pound of compost that you bury in a landfill is one less pound that could be used for crops.
- kukurio, on 06/25/2009, -1/+4This really isn't a case of nanny statism. Trash removal is generally a municipal service, so this is basically just a case of the local government saying, "You want your trash removed? Fine, but you have to separate it first."
There are definitely good reasons for doing this, because once the trash is all mixed together, it's extremely costly to separate out recyclables and compostables. The alternative would be to levy higher taxes on people who use the municipal waste services but refuse to do the separation, to make up for the cost difference. - inactive, on 06/25/2009, -0/+3Maybe you should have a look at all the inmates in prison for non-violent drug offenses.
- californicator, on 06/25/2009, -0/+3SF is already recycling 72%. I highly doubt very many of these fines will be handed out.
- Y0tsuya, on 06/25/2009, -0/+3Newsom is a polarizing figure. He won't get far in politics with his "whether you like it or not" attitude. If he does get the Democratic nomination to run for governor, his Republican opponent has a very good chance at winning.
- Barackalypse, on 06/25/2009, -9/+12They should follow the example of all good Fascists and Communists and reward children for turning in their parents for not complying!
- Y0tsuya, on 06/25/2009, -4/+7You vill recycle all your trash, ja?
- californicator, on 06/25/2009, -1/+4Here's an article that covers the law... and mentions lower bills: http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/Producing-less-tra ...
Here's a Canadian article that is talking about implementing a local program, and how we only pay for bigger trash containers but not recycling ones... and businesses get pickup discounts when they seperate out food scraps from other trash: http://www.thestar.com/News/article/199254
Our compost sells for $10-14 per cubic yard. An article that mentions this is here: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/green/category ...
Here's a video on how SF makes energy from scrap food: http://videos.howstuffworks.com/discovery/30998-di ...
I can find more... - PM08, on 06/25/2009, -2/+5Wow this wacko a mayor wants to be our next Governor? And I thought Arnold was a joke.
- bobbi21, on 06/25/2009, -0/+3You need both. Making it so black and white is just dumb. Can't be a society unless you have some collectivism (basically the definition) and limitation of freedoms. But if you get rid of all freedoms for collectivism then the point of having a society is basically gone (societies are made to protect the individual's interests in the end. Really is no such thing as a "state", just a bunch of individuals)
- Protonz, on 06/25/2009, -3/+6Its strange, I'm not a right-winger, but I stopped recycling, even aluminum cans which I know are one of the few recyclables that do make economic sense.
Maybe it is out of spite, at least I can admit to it. I think something about being forced to recycle is causing push-back. Especially the unquestionable 'moral' superiority of 'recycling' or 'being green'. It is turning into a cult/religion where questioning generates irrational hostility. - bobbi21, on 06/25/2009, -1/+4Do ppl even try to think of long term consequences?
- bobbi21, on 06/25/2009, -0/+3uh most things don't biodegrade well in a landfill... They have newspapers from nearly 100 years ago in there. Tightly packed = no air = no degradation. If it did biodegrade you'd have gigantic compost heaps and you'd smell that from the other end of the city.
- r3s0p, on 06/25/2009, -0/+2Absolutely, seat-belt laws are another example...they spread like wildfire (I don't know the history there, maybe some federal string pulling?). Motorcycle helmet laws are possibly a counter-example. Many coastal states (CA include) require helmets, while plains/midwest have only partial requirements or no helmet laws whatsoever, and it has been that way for decades.
- Animan351, on 06/25/2009, -0/+2yeah. This could eventually turn into a good idea once we get all our electricity via solar, wind, and geothermal and all the trucks are electric ( which also has a much lower maintenance ) but it will still be 15 to 20 years before that will happen.
- angryfirelord, on 06/25/2009, -2/+4You want to fish for compost? Be my guest. It's right next to the used kitty litter and last week's dinner.
- Cantholditdown, on 06/25/2009, -0/+2Don't know why all the complaints. Why do people want land permanently ruined by piles of trash, when you can compost it. I think cardboard can also be broken down through composting.
There is alot of recycling that is unjustified, but this seems like a good idea. - vertinox, on 06/25/2009, -0/+2Well... They voted for them.
Its easier to move to a new city than it is to move to a new country. - MannaPC, on 06/25/2009, -1/+3Definition of foot material?
- govsucks, on 06/25/2009, -4/+6 San Fran has gone from "Question Authority" in the 60s to "Obey Authority" today.
Citizen 127-68-2956, we have discovered a banana peel in your trash, the adjustment for this offense is five minutes in the environmentally friendly public pain giver. Please report this Tuesday for adjustment.
Thank you and have an Earthtastic day! - bobbi21, on 06/25/2009, -1/+3Actually thats assuming you just leave the paper out to decompose. in a landfill that thing aint going away for a while. Decades old newspapers down there. Think even around a century.
But you are generally right. Recycling paper isn't worth it. I would think there'd be a limit to how many trees you can plant and cut down before you run out of good soil but no idea when that is. If anything maybe we should compost the paper and use it to fertilize the tree farms. - painting, on 06/25/2009, -3/+5whats next? a law that fines me for throwing trash out of my car?
- californicator, on 06/25/2009, -0/+2$10-$14 a cubic yard is what the charge for the compost, and it has a turnover and recovery rate much quicker than letting it convert into methane. Also, making compost returns most of the carbon to the earth, instead of burning it and making carbon dioxide.
SF creates methane from compost, too... but more money is made on selling compost to wine growers in Napa. - blizzardice1, on 06/25/2009, -1/+3I have to pay for both a recycling can and a black can. I think its stupid I have to pay to recycle, its why I don't. AND I AM FINE WITH IT
- Barackalypse, on 06/25/2009, -3/+5Can someone please explain the environmental benefit to letting food waste decompose in a separate composting facility versus decomposing in a landfill to generate methane gas, which is then burned for power, instead? It seems to me you're basically getting compost for farming instead of methane gas for power, which seems to be a wash, but with a lot of extra sorting and collection effort.
- californicator, on 06/25/2009, -2/+4Well, the fine will only happen if you put everything in one can... the black one. Even without the new law... if you do that, you are a lazy *****... and you're throwing your money away. Let me explain:
Everyone gets three cans... a black, blue and green one. You only really pay for them to pick up the stuff in the black (trash) can, and you pay more for bigger black cans. The blue and green cans are for recyclables and compostables respectively, and SF will give you bigger sizes of these cans for free. You can even put recyclables along side the biggest cans they can give you, as long as they are in paper bags.
So, think of it this way... if you seperate all your trash out, very little of it will be acutal trash and go in the black can. You can then get the smallest black can they offer and save $$$; SF will take the rest of your crap away for free, as long as you seperate it out. Got it now?
The fine is for people that are too pigheaded to see the carrot, and therefore fill up landfills with crap that can otherwise be recycled. Time to bring out the stick. ***** 'em. -
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