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74 Comments
- flip2trip, on 10/31/2009, -10/+48Eco-terrorism at its best. Pay us or we drill.
- redcolumbine, on 10/31/2009, -3/+31Great. Now we're all hostages.
- schnikies79, on 11/01/2009, -10/+32How about you ***** yourself.
- Sornos, on 11/01/2009, -4/+22It seems a lot of you are acting like this is a dick move. It may seem so, but it isn't.
People need to eat. Companies need to pay their employees and oil is a major part of the economy in Ecuador (everywhere else, too, for that matter). Expansion is necessary to keep anything alive.
So unless you replace the revenue that could be had from the oil reserves then it's going to be drilled. People can't live off beautiful vistas and virgin forests. - Ghostalker, on 11/01/2009, -6/+23So they want the international community, which is dependent on oil, to pay them to NOT produce oil. I find their logic flawed.
- jaytek13, on 11/01/2009, -1/+11Seems fair to me. We are the consumers of their product. What on earth gives us the right to tell them what they can and cannot do with their resources? Especially when we on our own soil discuss tearing up Anwar and other national treasures for the sake of their resources...
If we want them to stop drilling/deforestation, then we need to stop consuming the end product. That's all there is to it. Otherwise we have absolutely 0 right to tell them what they can and cannot do with their land. - Jaime2000, on 11/01/2009, -0/+10...isn't eco-terrorism supposed to be conducted on BEHALF of the environment?
- noyurawk, on 11/01/2009, -1/+10This goes to show we are way too many on this planet. It's not eco-terrorism by the way, stop diluting the meaning of that word until it means nothing. Who's terrified? It's extortion, like the mafia that ask money to protect yourself from them.
- Intercon, on 11/01/2009, -11/+19All of the previous comments fail to take into account one very important thing: the history of American involvement in the region, and Ecuador's history with the IMF and the World Bank.
While it may seem like ***** to honkys, it makes a lot of sense for the international community to support this effort by Ecuador to get a little payback on its resources. ( See Confessions of an Economic Hitman for details.)
The fact is, we must protect genetic diversity, it is now our most important resource, and this will become even more important in the immediate future. Oil, on the other hand, is about to take a long deserved kick in the nuts. It is obsolete for passenger cars already, and its predominance as the prime mover of people, freight, and the economy is nearing an end. As is its extensive use in plastics and electronics.
I say the international community should give Ecuador a bump. We owe them after we raped their economy and resources in the 80's. And it probably going to be profitable in the long run.
If the United States really developed their trade partners, supporting their individual aspirations and nuances, and sincerely promoting, not democracy, but freedom to choose what works best for whomever, we wouldn't be in this Recession to begin with. We would be enjoying vigorous trade with strong economies worldwide. - Ryanw430, on 11/01/2009, -1/+9How about we let GM, Ford, foreign automakers, etc. fail and get off oil altogether? I'd start a private bus service in my city (Las Vegas) if I could, but guess what? It is illegal for me to do so! Why? Because the local government would rather have a million taxis paying them special fees, the federal government would rather spend trillions blowing up the middle east every few years, and my state government needs an excuse to put Nevada highway patrol cars all over the place.
I once waited for a bus for 30 minutes at a major intersection while there were FIVE cops watching a girl fail her DUI test cuz she wrecked into somebody else. And that doesn't include the two firetrucks that were there. Let's see. What would the government rather see? A highly efficient bus going up and down the street, or the following: two wrecked cars and a huge DUI fine, two firetruck diesel engines and six firefighters on call at 11 at night, five police cruiser V-8s with expensive blinking lights, five guns on the streets, and to top it all off, a stranded taxpayer (ME!) that shells out $.50 a gallon+vehicle registration taxes to be completely screwed the ONE DAY he doesn't have a car thanks to some unknown nissan sentra sensor going out, which has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH ACTUAL EMMISIONS, but which triggers a check engine light, which makes me fail smog, which makes me have to get my car repaired overnight, and which also allows the dealership to charge me $500 for ten mins. labor putting in a part that Autozone and Pep Boys had no freaking clue as to what it was.
I rest my case. - MerchantofPanic, on 11/01/2009, -1/+7This looks like a job for Mr Burns slant drill rig.
- Laminarcissus, on 11/01/2009, -3/+9I think the point is that they are intelligent grown-ups, if they were motivated they should, like many other countries, be able to come up with new economic initiatives to replace the oil revenue and preserve the ecosystem.
Simply announcing "give us the money or the rain forest gets it" is not a thoughtful or sustainable solution to the problem. - inactive, on 11/01/2009, -0/+6Having a bad day?
- gsfgf, on 11/01/2009, -0/+5What needs to be done is to remove the oil while protecting the environment. One small area of facilities, using horizontal drilling can pump the entire area. Build a ecologically sound pipeline (like in Alaska), and make the drillers post bonds to remove all the equipment, wells, and paved area. The jungle will reclaim the area really quick, and the impact could be no worse than a fire. The trick is to secure the bonds so the man-made equipment actually gets removed.
- MrSteamTank, on 11/01/2009, -0/+5The United States has interfered in Latin American affairs constantly and almost always to their detriment. I guess you're only supposed to meddle in international affairs with sanctions, sponsoring dictatorships, and invasions(afghanistan, iraq, guatemala, nicaragua). Any sort of economic or technological assistance makes America a pussy apparantly.
- DrSnugglebunny, on 11/01/2009, -0/+5RTFA and read deeper into the issue. Poor country with immense pressure from powerful oil companies and relatively little assistance from outside. They have little option other than to play this card, that's how desperate the situation is. And the price tag is relatively small for the global community, given the benefits and alternatives.
- bpwrinn, on 11/01/2009, -2/+7"Oil, on the other hand, is about to take a long deserved kick in the nuts. It is obsolete for passenger cars already, and its predominance as the prime mover of people, freight, and the economy is nearing an end."
HAH, wishful thinking.... - WhoDoneIt, on 11/01/2009, -4/+9"Honkeys?"
Your comment, whatever you said, just got lost.
If you want to be taken seriously, stop using racist slang, no matter who you are. - captininsanity, on 11/01/2009, -1/+6The cartels like OPEC have been extorting us for years. Really it's our fault for putting ourselves in the position. When we're done with oil they're gonna be the ones crying unfair...
- Laminarcissus, on 11/01/2009, -4/+8"***** to honkys?"
"long deserved kick in the nuts?"
"give Ecuador a bump?"
Well aren't we just the groovy prof who holds class out on the quad on sunny days.
You are trying way, way, way, too hard. - gmeinsch, on 11/01/2009, -2/+6I think it's fair to ask for money...
North America and Europe have deforested HUGE amounts of land to get to the level of development and economic prosperity they are at today. Now when less developed countries try to drill or cut down forest for agriculture, we tell them it is wrong. How is this fair? - Ryanw430, on 11/01/2009, -0/+4**edit: actually, technically speaking, taxi authority doesn't enforce the buses (i'm not sure about the limos, but I do know limos have to charge minimum prices cuz I know a guy that got in trouble running an unlicensed private town car), but its not like we have bus lanes available for free market businesses to use...even state-registered taxis aren't allowed to pick up passengers on public streets....only public buses can pick up people on public streets, and you have to wait at least 15/30 mins if public buses are even going up/down those streets to begin with...its just another example of the ever expanding shadow government...
- opticwind, on 11/01/2009, -1/+5I really don't get the issue. Other countries want the Amazon to remain forested in environmentally healthy. Ecuador has an economy highly dependent on oil. If we want them to not hurt the Amazon more, why not give them money to move into an economy not dminated by oil dependency.
- damack, on 11/01/2009, -1/+5Their only other exports are bananas, shrimp and flowers.
If their oil trade collapses the country will lose the vast majority of its income.
A country with poverty problems already doesn't need to lose 90% of its international trade income. - raybury, on 11/01/2009, -3/+7Okay, but I want tax rebates because I don't have kids. Look how much that helps the environment!
- Sil369, on 11/01/2009, -1/+5wouldnt something like this get abused from other industries if it catches on? ie, fishing companies, or companies that make products that produce high amounts of pollution....
- Ryanw430, on 11/01/2009, -1/+5oh that's easy. we have taxi authority (special cops) that enforce special laws just for taxis/limos/buses. For example, the taxi authority enforces mandatory prices. If a limo company charges $30 a ride, instead of $50 a ride (given their classification), they are fined by the government. It is a form of a legal cartel. The buses, taxis, and limos are all registered with the state--hence the reason you see that little number on all of their cars. Basically, the first letter of that number is the minimum price they are allowed to charge.
- jjesusfreak01, on 11/01/2009, -1/+5But people will only pay for so long until they realize this is stupid, at which point they will drill anyways, and all the people that originally payed them not to will realize how stupid they were.
- WhoDoneIt, on 11/01/2009, -0/+3You still never answered why it's Illegal for you to start a bus service.
- sarahlee, on 11/01/2009, -0/+3Not exactly. The entire world depends upon the Amazon rainforest. It is not called "the lungs of the world" for nothing. Everyone on the planet will suffer if too much more of it is lost.
And there is a point where if it gets much smaller it will no longer be able to create the climate it needs to stay alive. There have been some studies over the past 5-6 years indicating that may already be happening. If true, we are really *****. - inactive, on 11/01/2009, -1/+4Think about it this way....the Amazon is ANWR.
- inactive, on 11/01/2009, -0/+3They already are- the Saudis in particular.
- DolphinGL, on 11/01/2009, -3/+6That oil is getting drilled someday. Sooner or later, it will be drilled. Paying them not to not would just mean extra money for them on top of what they'll make selling that oil someday in the future.
- sarahlee, on 11/01/2009, -0/+2No - the entire globe depends on the Amazon rainforest. What it does in terms of oxygen creation and climate impacts every single one of us.
- ryrocker, on 11/01/2009, -1/+3but even then, if you dont want someone to use their resources then they should be compensated for whatever monetary loss they will acquire... you have to keep fair exchange in.
- tsotha, on 11/01/2009, -2/+4We don't have any obligation to "help" our trading partners. For one thing that's pretty damn paternalistic. Trading is about buying and selling things, not becoming best buddies.
If they want to pump the oil, fine. If not, that's fine too. Oil can be had without destroying the local environment - whether or not they put the necessary restrictions in place is not my concern. - Intercon, on 11/01/2009, -0/+2My friend, there is going to be a very large time between the current gene sequencing taking place and developing the ability to 'create' another living organism from scratch. There are estimated to be anywhere from 5 to 30 million species on the planet. That lack of a definitive number right there shows how much work there is to do.
Meanwhile, of the estimated 270,000 plant species on the planet, 1 in 8 is in danger of extinction. What are we losing as we destroy these bio-diverse areas? And don't tell me that oil can be removed from areas without harming them. While possibilities for this exist, try getting them past Exxon's board of directors. - Branchex, on 11/01/2009, -1/+3How bout they sell the land to someone who cares about protecting it more than the oil it has. They get the money they want and the land is saved without any something for nothing crap.
- poprocket1, on 11/01/2009, -0/+2i said we invade them!
- SpectreFire, on 11/01/2009, -0/+2Great idea. Now who' going to ***** buy all that land and not use it for anything.
People who care about the land won't have nearly enough money to buy it all. The people who don't care, have all the money and will buy it for the oil and land development. - opticwind, on 11/01/2009, -0/+2No, because those companies rely on the product themselves that's being sold. Ecuador is saying it wants to help the environment by getting away from oil dependency, but their entire economy is currently dependent on it. So they want help adjusting away from that in exchange for the no drilling.
- LeonDiggsby, on 11/01/2009, -1/+3Paying people not to do stuff is a pretty dangerous precedent. This is a mafia tactic through and through...
- Ryanw430, on 11/01/2009, -0/+2eh, I've had worse. : )
- sarahlee, on 11/01/2009, -0/+2The problem here is that we are asking them to forgo profit to save the Amazon, which is critically important to the entire world.
Seems like we do need to kick in something to keep "the lungs of the world" working. - Branchex, on 11/01/2009, -0/+2How bout the same groups they are looking to for do nothing money. Rich nations could get together to buy the land and turn it into an international preserve.
- opticwind, on 11/01/2009, -3/+5Our world, our resources, our responsibility.
The world is no longer cracked by sovereignty issues when one country's actions negatively affect another's. - iwashere2, on 11/01/2009, -0/+2There's got to be a better way...
- redcolumbine, on 11/01/2009, -0/+2Of course we do. But if we reward one country for "pony up or the planet gets it" tactics, it'll be carte blanche for the rest of the world to set extortionary prices rather than try to cooperate.
We do need to kick in something - a LOT - but it'll have to be here at home. We have to set an example. - reubencm, on 11/03/2009, -0/+1havnt heard of peak oil?
- reubencm, on 11/03/2009, -0/+1Fishing industry has been playing a similar card for years its called grandparenting and rent seeking
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