What is Digg?46 Comments
- quentinp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13If I lived out of town a bit I'd definitely go for one of these. Heck I've seen them for sale at Canadian Tire!
- BigKoi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11So why did you comment only on Government when the issue FTFA is...
Many gated communities or neighborhood associations prohibit structures like wind turbines, and most municipal governments restrict building heights and may not grant variances for a wind tower.
This has nothing to do with government getting in the way. You may be able to petition your local government to exempt wind turbines. However, your average gated community or neighborhood association would shoot it down due to concerns over the sight of turbines bringing down property value. Sounds like you have a problem with your neighboors and not the government. - ReaperUnreal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Screw the birds and the neighbours. If the neighbours want to blast music outside and mow the lawn at 7AM on weekends, I'll put up my wind turbine.
- flipside3, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11I can't stand homeowner's associations. That's a deal breaker when I'm looking for a house. Try and force me to join one, and I'll just look for a house elsewhere.
While I'm on the topic of homes, architecture for residential homes is so backwards these days (at least here in Texas). They add a thousand gables, but don't even take into account how the sun will heat the house. We don't even have basements down here.
I still wish the power companies would offer to install wind turbines like these, and solar collectors too. - Luyseyal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Yes, it's pretty much been solved. Using newer designs, you can use all that old fuel in the actual reactor, breaking it down into "nicer" isotopes. Read about it in wikipedia. I did. :)
-l - aembleton, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7For those in the UK:
You can get a plug-in 1KW wind turbine from http://www.windsave.com/ for £1595 plus VAT. - richiestang78, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7How about we cut power costs by going from 20% Nuclear power to 80% or higher by standardizing a design and building some plants. Nuclear power is safe, the Navy has proved that over the last 40 years by operating numerous subs and ships that seem to run fine on the stuff. Just design a single design for the country and build that everywhere, but that would be too easy for this country though cause we rather waste time on windfarms, solar power, underwater turbines and such.
- JAWS, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Agreed, in Ontario, I worked it out that each compact fluorescent bulb saves me about $.80 A MONTH on the electricity bill. Multiply that by the number of bulbs in my house (25) and I save $20 a month on just reducing my electricity demand.
- BLKMGK, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5For some AWESOEM readnig go check out -> http://otherpower.com/ These guys have some pretty awesome ideas on wind power along with how-tos for building them and a somewhat decent forum that is visited by folks all over the world. Solar is nice when the sun is shining but in t emiddle of the night the wind still blows - I'll take both please. Sadly I live on too small a plot with too many big trees to do this but given a chance I'd jump on it in a heartbeat and probably build my own too. Explore that site - it's fascinating. http://utterpower.com/ is also interesting - some of the old slow diesel designs make for great backups and require little maintenance...
- Luyseyal, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Hell, living here in Austin, TX, I'd be happy with a wind generator powered by the fan in my A/C unit out back.
-l - scottmoss, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Yea looks great but read the end of the first sentence "as long as their neighbors don't balk". Go and talk to the Kennedy's on Martha's Vineyard. People wanted to put them out in the ocean almost not visible from shore and there shot it down, what do you think will happen if you put one up in highly congested location...
- soapbeard, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5That is cool, been looking for something like this for a while. Just did a quick calculation though and even if you are generous with electricity prices and expectations for the turbine, it will generate you £50 worth of electricity a year. The site claims 10-15 years lifespan for the turbine which means in its life you'll be lucky to get back £750, which is only 1/2 the cost of the turbine. If you could get grants for it would make more sense though.
- carve, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I think this is a great idea, I've often wondered why we haven't seen more of these in the past. They are a bit too expensive still, but it is a step in the right direction.
However, a very cheap way to get just as much of a power savings is from "negawatts"- increasing the efficiency of your home. For instance, replacing 12 x 100 Watt incandescent bulbs with 20 watt compact fluorescents will net you the same energy savings as that 1600 pound 1kw wind turbine, but it'll only cost you about 0.75% as much money! Going from an electric dryer to a clothes line will save even more energy, and it'll cost you about $10. I'm all for alternative renewable energy 100%, but for it to really be effective we have to reexamine our ridiculously wasteful ways.
Also- about homeowners associations: I used to be against them, but after having white trash neighbors move in who trashed their house, decreasing my property value, I really like covenants! If a cause (like alternative energy) is good enough you can probably get an exception anyway.
I also agree that geography and heat load MUST be taken into consideration in new house construction. Passive and active solar heating w/shade considerations in the summer should be a LAW!
P.S.S. - I can't stand hypocrites who bitch about any energy source you come up with (coal, nuke, hydro, wind, etc.) yet still use power themselves. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3In Malta a wind-turbine will be built in the sea.
- Jasonn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I wonder how long before the turbines actually pay for themselves in energy savings...
- stylerm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3They actually have underwater turbines that run off of ocean currents. They are much smaller since the water movment is a lot stronger. Also, they produces a much more predictable amount of electricty in the right place.
- brufleth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3They're actually being generous with the estimated efficiency. You're suggesting the use of electrical power to generate kinetic energy (in the air) and then turning that kinetic energy into electricity again. There is no magical energy entering the system and those energy conversions are very lossy.
If you want to "recover" some power from your AC set it to a higher temperature so it doesn't run as much. - scottmoss, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@brufleth Just to clarify the Kennedy's have maintained a home in Aquinnah on Martha's Vineyard for decades....
- Schda, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I'm not a big fan of homeowners associations either. But as a single guy trying to buy my first house it's a bit hard to afford something more than a condo/townhome that is still livable in my price range so I'll probably be stuck with one for a couple years. I guess it's just a necessary evil, but I look forward to being able to shrug it off when I can afford better.
- dodoporridge, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3re: fluorescent bulbs
I just wish someone could come up with a fluorescent bulb that produces appealing light. The soft whites are too rosy; the daylight-balanced ones come off very blue; and overall the light they produce is a bit strident. I think if they produced softer light more people would use them. - apocalizer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3You have? I wonder if they'll let me take a wind turbine through the U.S. border station... certainly seeing a windmill in the back of your truck would be somewhat bizarre.
- ozziedog, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Why not use small turbines on top of power line towers? The structure needed to hoist the turbines is already there.
- brufleth, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5You are very misinformed.
The houses owned by the Kennedy's are in Hyannisport which is on Cape Cod and not on the island of Martha's Vineyard.
Cape Wind's planned location for the turbines would be plainly visible from land and would occupy an area frequented by casual fishers. While I was still doing summer jobs on the Cape I was taken out fishing there by a boss.
The biggest objections for the wind turbines are not the unsightly destruction of the sound's appeal. The biggest objection, as most things, comes down to money. Cape Wind wants to build wind turbines on what amounts to public "land" to produce overpriced power for a region that already exports energy. There is a nuclear plant in Plymouth and a natural gas plant on the Cape Cod Canal. Even during peak summer usage there is an excess of power. MA legislation states that power companies would be forced to buy power from Cape Wind. Wind power is not currently cost effective in an ocean environment on the scale of the planned installation.
The installation of the wind turbines would actually raise the cost of power for people on the Cape despite an already present surplus of power. Contrary to what you imply, there are more than just Kennedys living on the Cape. There are a lot more working class people there than mega rich people. In fact, the mega rich people are usually only on the Cape for a short period every year. So the people that are hurt more are the year round working class people.
Wind power is great and maybe under the right conditions a wind farm would be good but the currently proposed plans are simply a means for a company to make some quick bucks on an ultimately destructive and wasteful project.
In closing, don't forget that:
*Wind turbines must shut down when the wind crosses above certain threshold. Due to the high winds in the sound the turbines would be inactive much of the time.
*If you've ever worked with boats in an ocean environment (lakes are NOT the same) you should know that it is one of the harshest environments that you can put mechanical devices in. Salt water is very good at destroying things, as is hurricanes, freeze and thaw cycles (of which there are many a year on Cape Cod), etc. - Richard0237, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I would like this one
http://www.skystreamenergy.com/skystream/ - Luyseyal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I've got mine as high as the wife will allow with the dogs here during the day. ;)
I'm not talking about magical energy. I'm talking about recovering some of the kinetic energy that is otherwise wasted by being dumped in the air. Besides, the efficiency might be better than you think.
As I said before, I don't know the physics well enough to measure the efficiency, but the likelihood of a net-positive outcome seems plausible to me.
-l - ellenweber, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It looks like we are in for a big shift in power sources over the next months and that opens a huge opportunity for leaders in this field to step forward and give thoughtful guidance to how new power sources structure themselves. It would be wonderful if the people could prevent this one from getting into the greed of systems that control oil now. Think it can happen?
Brain Based Business - DruidGwynneth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1No, Noble is putting in large-scale turbines, which aren't nearly as efficient nor effective and are largely paid for by taxpayer dollars rather than Noble's own investment.
- jefferygomer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Then I'd just avoid building them in an area with source of air traffic.
- atpcliff, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Hi!
The wind turbines off the shore of Martha's Vineyard will be visible from shore. And, if you have a pair of high-powered binoculars, you will actually be able to see that they are wind turbines. If you don't, you'll be lucky to see anything.
Off the coast of The Netherlands they have similar sized turbines located a similar distance off shore. When they did surveys asking people on the beaches about the off-shore wind turbines, the most common answer was that they didn't know there were any, because they were so hard to spot.
I think that if the locals vote down the wind turbines, they should have an oil refinery built in their neighborhood. We need energy, and if you don't want clean energy near where you live, we'll need dirty energy to replace it.
cliff
YIP - spinchange, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1They say 1-5 years depending on how big you go with it. I got so interested by this dugg up a good FAQ on these:
http://digg.com/environment/Residential_Wind_Energy_Q_A - engwar, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4Um, but isn't the waste generated by nuclear power dangerous for thousands of years? Or has that issue been solved?
- carve, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I hope that was a joke.
- Luyseyal, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Nah, it's not strictly a joke. When the A/C runs, it's the hottest part of the day and the A/C is by far the biggest hog. Recovering some of that energy would be great. I'm not an engineer, though, so I couldn't tell you the best way to use that spinning fan... Using the wind from it just seemed obvious, shouldn't affect the A/C's performance, and went with the story.
-l - Luyseyal, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I doubt the energy transfer would be that bad if you kept the wind turbine sufficiently far from the A/C fan. But I don't know enough about vortex dynamics and all of that to do the math.
-l - carve, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Well, that is a bit look trying to run your sailboat on a calm day by putting a fan in front of the sail.
You see, a turbine above the fan would make the fan work harder. In fact, it is similar to how the torque convertor on an automatic transmission is DESIGNED to transfer power. In other words, for every 3 watts you got out of your turbine, your fan would probably draw an additional 7 watts. - luthiren, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1This is a great article because Noble Enviormental Power is in the process of building 36 of these wind turbines in Huron County and Sanilac County in Michigan. If you want some more info on noble, visit their website
- 16777216, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I live in the middle of no-where on a gravel road ( yes that means NO PAVEMENT )
but a small one runway airport is less than 1.5 miles away with my house in the flight path for landing ( thank goodness that there have been only two small passenger jets land there in 5 years the rest have been prop craft. ) put one of these up and BOOM.
***** that would suck. - carve, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1have you checked them out recently? They've come a long way. The biggest complaint I have about mine is they take a minute to warm up and reach full brightness, but that is just because I got cheapies. I just left on incandescent in there to see right away. Once warmed up though, I find the light much whiter and more pleasing than the light from the incandescent bulb.
- NerdyNinja, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3ask your great-great grandkids!
- jefferygomer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"Wind turbines must shut down when the wind crosses above certain threshold. Due to the high winds in the sound the turbines would be inactive much of the time."
True, but the current wind technology allows the blades to automatically adjust for the wind. A Vestas V80 can produce wind in 5-95 mph winds. 95 is a lot of wind and it is VERY uncommon for winds to reach above that - especially for a sustained amount of time. - apocalizer, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Might be more effective if you put it 10,000 feet in the air and got it into the jet stream.
- wvdavis, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2A Greenpeace Report (http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/press/reports/an-american-chernobyl-nuclear) identifies almost 200 near misses at 50 reactors that have occurred in the United States since 1986. Of the 200 “precursors to a meltdown” documented in U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) documents, eight are considered the most significant. In other words, according to the NRC, the risk of a core meltdown is greater than a one in 1,000 chance. For the most part, these near misses have not been well-publicized, and the safety and well-being of those who live near these facilities has taken a back seat to the publicity needs of the energy industry.
On the positive side of things, also as per Greenpeace (http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/step-one-admit-you-have-a-pro) The Unites States led the world last year in annual installed wind capacity. California is having enormous success with its solar initiatives and bio-fuel is more popular than ever. Not to mention, a terrorist has never targeted a windmill. - SteelChicken, on 10/12/2007, -10/+5Liberal wankers crack me up. Crying over and over about the environment, but as soon as someone tries to do something about it, they bitch about it being an eyesore.
- davidbarrett, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1Neighborhood associations are unfortunately a necessary evil. You'll rue the day you buy a nice big piece of property with a fantastic view and big swanky house on it (in an area with no association, of course) and two years later some assclown buys the property next to you and puts a welding shop, his eight llamas, and his cousin's two trailers on it.
That is, unless you like watching your investment drop in value by 40% in six months. - engwar, on 10/12/2007, -12/+5graystar sounds like just another knee-jerk conservative. Just mod him down.
- graystar, on 10/12/2007, -20/+6Always the government getting in the way of things, yet the greenies cling to the government for more legislation to help protect the environment.
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