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- claine1, on 06/30/2008, -0/+36Hey folks,
Cat Laine from AIDG. Thanks for all the attention and digg love. We really appreciate it as we're a small non-profit. Plus we're all really glad that you liked to idea behind the tech (especially Sam who's been working hard on it).
Our site crashed :(, but when it's back up check out the other stuff we're doing in Guatemala and Haiti.
Cheers,
Cat - claine1, on 06/30/2008, -0/+26Cat again. Thank goodness for google reader. Here is the text until we get the site back up.
Pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/aidg/sets/72157604349 ...
Vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=truUhOtb9qg
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The pico-hydro system we’re working on just got featured on MAKE and Gizmodo so I asked Sam Redfield, the primary developer on the project, to send over some more info on his invention and time with us in Guatemala.
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I recently returned from a 3-month stint with AIDG Guatemala. As part of their program in Central America, they are pursuing an ambitious project to develop cheap, small hydroelectric systems under one kilowatt known as Pico-Hydro. Prior to my arrival in Guatemala I had developed a small hydroelectric system housed in a 5-gallon bucket. Using a Permanent Magnet Alternator as the generator in the system and made almost entirely of PVC, we conducted field tests in the small community of La Florida to determine what the possibilities were for generating power with the device. La Florida had lost its primary source of electricity and was depending on candles and batteries for their energy needs.
La Florida is a small community based around a coffee plantation on which a group of landless campesinos ceded from ruin after the previous owners abandoned the property. It now runs as a collective producing excellent organic coffee. Set in the foothills below a semi-active volcano near the Pacific coast in the tropical lowlands of western Guatemala, La Florida offered a temperate climate with easy access to water. Our work in la Florida focused around the prospect of charging cellular phones using the Pico-Hydro system that I had developed in the States.
To charge cell phones, members of the community have to take an expensive and time consuming taxi ride an hour each way to pay a service for charging. Cell phones have become increasingly important in small isolated communities as they give these communities access to medicine, the market and family. Our field tests began by identifying a site with access to abundant water and a steep incline for the pipe to feed the generator. After a site was identified, we laid the pipe and tapped into an existing stream. In all we laid 80 meters of 2- inch pipe to achieve a head, or drop in elevation, of just under 30 meters.
The generator was then installed with a voltage regulator, car battery and inverter. The regulator insured that the battery was not overcharged, the battery stored the energy for use and the inverter bumped up the power to 110 volts. Three power strips were then attached to the inverter. After we determined that the generator was producing electricity, we began gathering cell phones from the community. In all we gathered 18 phones. The generator was producing 60 watts, not a whole lot of power, but enough to charge 10 cell phones at a time without depleting the battery. Because the car battery could remain fully charged with a load of ten cell phone chargers working, we would be able to charge ten cell phones at a time 24 hours a day without depleting the car battery. Alternatively, we could charge considerably more cell phones simultaneously and allow periods for the car battery to recharge. The system produced enough power to charge all the cell phones in the community and potentially could provide a service that would save the people of La Florida considerable time and money.
Micro-enterprise schemes are being investigated to provide an individual with the generator as a business venture. The owner of the business would charge a small fee for charging cellular phones that would be affordable. The cost of the generator would be paid back over time with the proceeds of the charging service. Another application of the generator being explored is for household lighting. With the emergence of high output super efficient LED’s the prospect of creating small-scale lighting utilities is within reach. Again, people would be charged a reasonable fee to receive four to six high output LED lighting fixtures in their homes. The provider of the service would make a modest profit, and pay for the generator over time.
Work continues. One of the issues that we face in deploying the system is cost. The Permanent Magnet Alternator that generates the electricity in the system costs more than $300.00 US and has to be imported from the States. As part of my program with AIDG in Guatemala, I investigated the possibility of rebuilding a Toyota alternator to function as a Permanent Magnet Alternator. After investigating several possibilities, I am happy to report that we now have a working prototype, which is being integrated into the system. Other improvements include integrating the voltage regulator into the device and improvements in turbine performance. In the coming months trials will continue and no doubt improvements in economy and performance will be made. My work with AIDG Guatemala was invaluable to me in understanding the energy issues people face in the developing world and provided me an excellent opportunity to develop my technology in an environment that fosters innovation in a setting where people’s lives are positively effected. Thanks AIDG!
-Sam Redfield
Update:
Sam is building a generator for Professor Brian Thomas at Baylor University ( http://www.baylor.edu/pr/news.php?action=story&sto ... ) to be installed in Honduras as a cell phone charging micro business.
He’s going to try to get me a parts list with general specs to post on the blog in the next few days.
More info:
Wind Stuff Now Gm Alternator Mod
http://www.windstuffnow.com/main/gm_alt_mod.htm - shortyjacobs, on 06/30/2008, -2/+23Quick, someone build one and hook it up to the server.
- tripleoptiks, on 06/30/2008, -1/+17time to capitalize on my apartment's free water.
- mark076h, on 06/29/2008, -0/+14They are going to release a parts list and specs soon, from the update at the bottom "He’s going to try to get me a parts list with general specs to post on the blog in the next few days."
- inactive, on 06/30/2008, -0/+14http://www.flickr.com/photos/aidg/sets/72157604349 ...
- shoover, on 06/30/2008, -0/+8What a great idea! I pay for electricity but get free water as well. Hydroelectricity = pure win!
- shoover, on 06/30/2008, -0/+7Hydroelectric is a pretty common term that has nothing to 'water to fuel scams'.
- shadowspawn, on 06/30/2008, -0/+5I knew I'd see a car alternator in there somewhere. I was thinking of making something like this to power landscaping lights for a longer time period back near a creek that runs through our property.
But then the creek dried up.
Saw road signs and warning lights powered/charged by solar AND waterfalls on the Jersey side of the Delaware River. I was amazed. - Bmarofsky, on 06/30/2008, -0/+5Looks good! I'll take 2. I love anything that mixes water and electricity :)
- haentz, on 06/30/2008, -3/+7Uh, got to read more then the headline. I imagined some kind of "turn water into fuel" scam... But this is actually pretty cool!
http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/06/bucketbor ... - gn0stik, on 06/30/2008, -0/+4Hey Cat. What do you and Sam think about throwing up something on instructables for us? Love the improvised turbine by the way Sam. What's the optimum output? Sorry for all the questions, the sites down.
When the site comes back up, I'll check out the details a bit more. Thanks for posting. - Timpala, on 06/30/2008, -0/+4I suppose it depends on your location. Some are gravity fed from higher elevation lakes (like New York, NY). Some have the water pumped up into storage towers when electric rates are lower and then use gravity to feed the local demand throughout the day.
I think this is a fun idea to at least charge a battery for landscape lights or something. Every little bit makes a difference. - warholsbluecat, on 06/30/2008, -1/+5MAH BUKKIT IS A MUTANT
- ThatGeek, on 06/30/2008, -0/+3its a prototype. of course it can, and should be improved
- jax9999, on 06/30/2008, -0/+3water that comes out of the other end is still potable.
- robbiedo, on 06/30/2008, -0/+3That is very interesting. The whole concept of micro generation. I hope it doesn't work out that some moron does the math and finds it cheap to run hydro power in his home, and wastes 1000's of gallons of potable water.
- notman, on 06/30/2008, -0/+3I like this idea... makes me think though. Why not make one of these for the water supply of your house? That way, whenever water is used in the house, electricity will be created simultaneously.
- krnldmp, on 06/30/2008, -1/+4Its cool as an educational project or something but every last component in it could be optimized by a huge margin. Surely the designer knows that if he did it right he cold manufacture an optimized version for the price of the cob job and multiply output efficiency.
- shortyjacobs, on 06/30/2008, -1/+4@unknownpoltroon: Yup, I was thinking this too......just came to an awful conclusion:
Say you installed one of these on the gray water pipe in your basement. Assume you use 100 gallons per capita per day, (national average for domestic use is around 101 right now, but keep it simple). Also assume that all water usage in the house outflows as gray water. In a family household of 4, that's 400 gallons per day. That's 1.51 m^3. Also, assume this thing is in the basement, and take all the water to fall from the second floor, (optimistic). Call it 20 feet, or about 6 meters. 1510 kg of water falling 6 meters gives 1510*6*9.81=88,878 joules. 88,878 joules = 88,878 W*s (watt seconds), or 24.68 watt-hours, or 0.02468 kilowatt-hours. Oh, it's not even close to 100% efficient, but we'll assume it is. 0.02468 kW-h at a conservative $0.20/kW-h is a savings of $0.005 per day, or a whopping $0.15 per month.
At a cost of $5 for the bucket, $50 for the alternator, and $20 for all the PVC, you're looking at only a 42 year repayment interval. After that, that $0.15 is pure profit. - claine1, on 06/30/2008, -0/+3I'll talk to Sam. That would be awesome! We love Instructables.
- dupswapdrop, on 06/30/2008, -1/+4It's a small Hydroelectric Generator using the power of falling water. Think Hoover dam in a 10 gallon can.
- inactive, on 06/30/2008, -0/+3For the outflow. Put one of these inbetweend your 2nd floor and the basemebt for the tub/sink outflow. Might be able to do it for other areas, but probably want to avoid the toilet for obvious reasons.
- gn0stik, on 06/30/2008, -0/+3Uhhh, a pump, or gravity?
- bsonline, on 06/30/2008, -2/+5No, Hydroelectric is more of a turn water into fuel reality.
- TreatsTheBear, on 06/30/2008, -0/+3Spam
- shortyjacobs, on 06/30/2008, -0/+2It sounds good, but I'm trying to figure out where the downfall is. I'm thinking there would be a significant pressure drop as you go through a system like that, so your water pressure in your house would really start to suck.
I'm wondering though, what the price of water compared with the price of electricity turns out to be? Would it be cheaper to build a mini hydroelectric plant in your basement instead of paying for electricity? Methinks not, or someone would have done it already, but still.....
Or even better, price of gas versus price of electricity.....could one build a mini-natural gas electric plant in one's basement? - rharris, on 06/30/2008, -0/+2Thanks for the update. Looking forward to seeing some good come out of your work.
- Thrilltone, on 06/30/2008, -1/+3Welcome to Waterworld
- Praelior, on 06/30/2008, -0/+2This is a great idea for cheaply harnessing the energy from flowing water in poor underdeveloped areas. Some of you guys are marveling at it for home use.
Step 1: Water company uses electricity to pump water to your house
Step 2: You reconvert that energy back to electricity in a probably not very efficient generator
In a home application, the only energy you are getting out from this would be less than the energy the water company already put in to get it to your house (unless someway this was 100% efficient and there were no energy losses in the pipes on the way to your home). I suppose if you dont mind very low water pressure itd be no big deal, but at the end of the day you are just inefficiently reconverting back the energy that the water company used to run their pumps.
If you have some naturally supplied stream of some sort in your backyard, then this sounds like a fun thing to have for little things. But if you have some devious plan to tap into your water supply... well thats a different story. - TimKnab, on 06/30/2008, -0/+2Why did you assume only a 1 meter drop in elevation. From the comment above it seems that they had a vertical drop of almost 30 meters. I'm too lazy to do the calculations but it seems that would substantially reduce the required flow rate. You could also use a pipe with a larger diameter provided the creek was large enough and flowing fast enough to reduce the required drop in height.
- subterfuge, on 06/30/2008, -0/+2that's a good point. those kids had better watch those wires, or there'll be a little international relations crisis
- Ryan0617, on 06/30/2008, -0/+2Why would you even try spam on here, no one would take that up.
- KingGorilla, on 06/30/2008, -0/+2You'll love the toaster!
- shortyjacobs, on 06/30/2008, -0/+2potently so
- dupeduperson, on 06/30/2008, -1/+3I could get to the site, so I did a quick calculation. Seems like it would be difficult to get some useful amounts of power from this (could be wrong in some of my assumptions - happens all the time)
http://www.dotphys.net/files/micro_hydroelectric.h ... - erikwithaknotac, on 06/30/2008, -0/+2Doing awesome stuff Cat. So...can that generator be connected to a stationary bike?
- gn0stik, on 06/30/2008, -0/+2sounds great, I'll keep an eye out. I'm most interested in how he modified the alternator.
- mllawso, on 06/30/2008, -1/+3I think the idea is that you could recoup some of that energy by putting a generator on your gray-water line.
- gn0stik, on 06/30/2008, -0/+2It's just a rewound toyota alternator, I believe. You could attach the gennie part to a bike pretty easy. Just prop the bike up, and get a rubber ring to put around the pulley for traction, and mount the alternator securely under the wheel with the pulley in contact with the bike. Or you could take the tire off of the bike, and use the rim as a pulley, and get a belt to link the two up. Since the diameter of bike wheel is so much bigger than the alternator pulley, you'd get higher RPM than just directly attaching it to the wheel. Here's a diy on rewinding alternators for low RPM.
http://www.mtmscientific.com/rewind.html - claine1, on 06/30/2008, -0/+2Talking completely out of my bum as I am not really a hack or an engineer, I can't see why not. The generator itself is based on Ed Lentz's (Wind Stuff Now Gm Alternator Mod). Here is the link for that:
http://www.windstuffnow.com/main/gm_alt_mod.htm - NJank, on 06/30/2008, -2/+3BUT SERIOUSLY... Run your car on Water!!!!
http://www.yetanotherscam.com
(sorry to gn0stik, but I see way too many of these comments on digg. Where's the mythbusters on this one for balance of plant efficiency improvement.) - inactive, on 07/01/2008, -0/+1I'm involved with Engineers Without Borders Canada, and this is really cool! Dugg.
Always good to see great technology given to great communities - gn0stik, on 06/30/2008, -0/+1They already did a hydrolysis myth. They built a cell and hooked it up to a car, and *surprise* the car wouldn't run off of it. First off, they had a really poorly built cell. The gas output was pathetic.
If you check out some of the cells people have built on youtube, and compare it to the one mythbusters, you can see that the one Jaime and Adam built was a little under par.
Second, they hooked up a hydrogen tank directly to the intake and it ran fine. However, they forgot to put an arrestor inline and had a huge backfire. Jaime was standing right next to the tank when it happened. He's lucky the spark didn't make it through the valve.
They concluded that you cannot run a car directly off of a hydrolysis cell, simply not enough output, but a car WILL
*duh*
As I said, you can increase your mileage, but you cannot run your car for free off of water. - gn0stik, on 06/30/2008, -1/+1I understood what you mean bso.
- kmolnar, on 06/30/2008, -0/+0I think any such gains would likely be negligible, but it's an interesting idea. I wonder if someone has tried it... Probably. Given the average American home's water consumption and typical drainage arrangements, I'd be amazed if it would be economically practical given the (minor) initial investment and (major) costs of fixing potentially resultant plumbing nightmares.
- gn0stik, on 06/30/2008, -1/+1I agree with shoover, however I have to chime in here and say that hydrolysis is not a scam. You should definitely watch out for the people that say you can run your car completely on water, however you can gain some efficiency, 20-30% by setting up a electrolyzer in your car. It will never run your car all by itself, because internal combustion engines are far too lossy, something like 25% efficient after exhaust, heat and electrical systems losses. But it can help a little, and every little bit helps. It's up to you to decide if the rather complicated project is worth the savings though.
- WillWork4Food, on 07/01/2008, -0/+0Rebuilding car alternators is commonly done for larger homebrew wind turbines, but for a 60 watt hydro-bucket it's overkill.
There are plenty of micro wind turbine projects out there that use stepper motors from old dot matrix printers or motors from electric treadmill exercise machines, etc. Either is a permanent magnet solution that is low cost, requires no modifications, and would easily handle the low output this bucket produces.
Search Ebay for "wind turbine motor" and you'll find many alternatives. Not all are truly suitable because not all Ebay sellers are competent/trustworthy, but there are plenty of cheap permanent magnet motors out there that will do the job. - kmolnar, on 06/30/2008, -0/+0@shortyjacobs
*applause* my thoughts exactly. Thanks for saving me some time on the math. =)
dugg! -
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