What is Digg?66 Comments
- ivanmarsh, on 02/17/2009, -1/+20Wood as an alternative fuel... You're doing it wrong.
Please allow me to turn this into another hemp thread... Hemp is made of cellulose. - dave122, on 02/17/2009, -1/+18so is switchgrass, and every other plant. /damn potheads.
:D - JoeHammer, on 02/17/2009, -0/+11I love how our government and private sectors are funding research to see exactly how many crazy things we can make fuel and energy off of, but when it comes down to it, NOTHING is ever given the proper motion to start replacing our crutches of Oil and Coal.
- dogatemypron, on 02/17/2009, -0/+10One of these days I'll be able to shove trash into my vehicle and use it as fuel source just like Back to the Future. One of these days...
- justaboutdead, on 02/17/2009, -1/+7thats because nothing was ever found that was fesable... this seems to be closer to the goal, if not the goal
- docbob84, on 02/17/2009, -0/+4What it comes down to is what plant grows the fastest in the climate available. Each cell is, for the most part, the same size as all the others, and has as much cellulose as the others. So the plant that can grow the most cells in the shortest amount of time is able to transform the most CO2 into the most cellulose. If bamboo can grow faster than switchgrass (I have no idea about numbers, but say 5 tons per acre per year vs 8 tons per acre per year) in a certain region, then that's what should be used. If it happens to be that hemp is the fastest growing, then it would be a good argument for its use. Whether you could get some idiot to listen to logic... haha good luck.
- UselessTrivia, on 02/17/2009, -0/+3They've got other, cheaper catalysts besides platinum now.
- doctechnical, on 02/17/2009, -1/+4I hope they're planning on using the hydrogen on-site at the place it's being generated, because H2 storage and transportation is non-trivial.
- UselessTrivia, on 02/17/2009, -0/+2An electrical grid that can power an electric car or two for every household is probably just as far away as the Hydrogen economy.
I think electrical is better, because we can make it from anything we want and switching sources doesn't mean obsolescing whatever is downstream using that power. Problem is that to charge a car in 5-10 minutes like people are demanding would require something like a 1MW electrical connection, which you really only find a substations.
People will absolutely NOT settle for a car that gets less than 250-300 miles per charge or takes more than 15 minutes to juice up to 95%. I know I don't want one.
A good bridge would be cars like the Chevy Volt. A fully electric car that can charge its own batteries with a gas engine. Make the gas engine modular enough and in 10 years you can retrofit it with a fuel cell charger. I could live with a 40-50 mile range as long as I could switch to gas or something else for longer travel. - minoss, on 02/17/2009, -0/+2The fact that the oil industry is a multi-billion dollar industry is about all the motion anyone needs. If someone actually comes up with a solution that doesn't take more energy than what it produces, they can make billions. This includes those companies already involved in the oil industry. There's a huge incentive to come up with a new form of energy. Way more than what any government could hope to offer.
- kinstray, on 02/17/2009, -1/+3Mr Fusion!
- Kourgin, on 02/17/2009, -0/+2its gonna take time... and a little more global warming
- jwcorder, on 02/17/2009, -0/+2Eventually, we will all be able to dump food and yard waste into a container attached to your house and help heat and cool your homes. Extract <insert gas of your choice here> and then burn the remains for water and home heat. Of course, there is still geo-thermal, which for all purposes is the most efficient way to heat and cool I have seen lately. I don't exactly stay on the cutting edge of home energy trends though.
- chongli, on 02/17/2009, -0/+1Cellulose contains a lot of carbon. Using it as a source of fuel in any form leaves you with a whole bunch of carbon (likely in the form of CO2) that you now have to get rid of. This is ignoring all of the CO2 you produce while growing, processing and transporting all of this crap.
This all seems like a huge waste of time and effort when we should be focusing on clean electricity and electric cars. - UselessTrivia, on 02/17/2009, -0/+1The charge time only partly has anything to do with the battery technology. It has to do with the amount of energy you can extract from the power grid using household current.
Most houses in the US chew up something like 2-3KWhs per DAY...and for a car you'd be talking about pumping something like 20 kw/h into a car in 10-15 minutes.
Even if your household wiring could do that and not melt, if 3 people on your block tried to do it at the same time your whole area would probably have a brownout.
If I'm wrong, that's great. I'd LOVE to see electric cars proliferate. - armakaryk, on 02/18/2009, -0/+1yeeeeaaahhh ethanol isnt very good. the yeast bacteria commonly used to create ethanol wont survive in an environment above 15% ethanol. ethanol also has a lower energy density than gasoline so you need to burn off more of the stuff to get the same power as gasoline.
i'm in no way a fan of gasoline, its just that ethanol is not a viable replacement on a large scale. - svendm, on 02/18/2009, -0/+1No. There is no such bacteria.
And there is considerable research going into catalysts to produce hydrogen gas from light and water. I personally have friends working in that field. One as an organic chemist, trying to produce a metallorganic catalyst, and another working in an EU-funded project to study photosynthesis and dehydrogenase enzymes with the ultimate goal of producing exactly the kind of bacteria you seem to think already exists. - MacEnvy, on 02/17/2009, -0/+1That's why Hydrogen isn't a fuel source, it's just an energy storage mechanism. And frankly, it's a hell of a lot less efficient than chemical batteries, so I'd rather we focused on developing those instead.
- UselessTrivia, on 02/17/2009, -0/+1The charging infrastructure will take a lot of work to get in place so that you can "trickle charge anywhere". You'll have to put in not only the power but also data lines. Someone's going to expect you to pay when you're charging off their electricity. If I drive a couple hours to my parents house I'm not just going to plug into their garage outlet to charge my car overnight...I need to know how much I should pay them for the energy I used, which means I need to know what their electric rate is and exactly how much juice I sucked down.
That's a non-trivial amount of technology, and the automakers want it all in place BEFORE they start making the cars.
We'll get there eventually, but the electric grid is step 1...and frankly fixing the electrical infrastructure in this country would save us all a hell of a lot more money than getting rid of gasoline. - CptCheerios, on 02/17/2009, -1/+2The best way of producing hydrogen is with bacteria. Some produce a photosynthesis reaction which splits water into hydrogen gas with only the help of the sun. Unfortunately no one seems is investing heavily into this, unless you know otherwise....wait waiit this might be it not sure...nope not the same stuff but interesting none the less
- brandita, on 02/17/2009, -0/+1We won't need roads.
- logan47, on 02/18/2009, -0/+1I would love to see fuel-cell vehicles in full production within five years. I am hoping Obama will be able to push the big three automakers into a heavy production of reasonably priced green cars. BTW Chevy, at $40K, the Chevy Volt is not reasonably priced.
More green-car news at:
http://greencar.goingreentech.com/ - Amazetbm, on 02/17/2009, -0/+1They're looking for non-food alternatives.
- nowhereelse, on 02/17/2009, -0/+1I know a number of people are using light-harvesting bacteria to ferment organic waste and produce hydrogen. The processes are being optimised for scale-up at the moment.
- mishabear, on 02/17/2009, -0/+1I remember that things burned WOOD to get heat. Then along came coal. Then petroleum products. Give technology a chance to grow and change.
- thcobbs, on 02/17/2009, -0/+1Well, if everyone in the USA was required to eat one meal a day at Taco Bell, had methane traps, and cars that ran on methane, we'd be all set.
- pumanegra2012, on 02/18/2009, -0/+1Amazing isn't it?
- UselessTrivia, on 02/17/2009, -0/+1You're pretty much right on. Managing the nitrogen cycle is important as well. Not depleting the soil too fast, etc...
Switchgrass grows fantastically well in the northern midwest. Hemp grows amazingly well in the south.
A good cellulostic fuel process will work on pretty much any input.
So far it's proven to be pretty much a farce in the world of ethanol. It works in the labs, but it doesn't scale to manufacturing very well. - travbrack, on 02/17/2009, -1/+2Great idea! switch our fuel supply from something with limited supply like oil, to something with an UNLIMITED supply like trees!!!!
- UselessTrivia, on 02/17/2009, -0/+1Just stick an airtight box on a cow's ***** and you'd do even better. All they do is eat and fart.
- directrix13, on 02/17/2009, -0/+1Because cracking water to get hydrogen and oxygen takes more energy than you get from recombining them. But this net energy loss always exists for any kind of fuel we have to make, so I don't know which is more efficient.
- buzznova, on 03/21/2009, -0/+1Who needs hydrogen when you can use a biofuel: http://digg.com/autos/Finally_A_biodegradable_fuel
- detainer, on 02/17/2009, -0/+1amen
- inactive, on 02/17/2009, -0/+1Hydrogen can be a fuel source though, we just haven't figured it out yet.
- knowitman, on 02/17/2009, -0/+1We'll have Mr. Fusions by 2015 and will be driving around in 80s mustangs with big body kits by then as well.
- Amazetbm, on 02/20/2009, -0/+1True knowiman....but the poster above me suggest that sugar-based ethanol as the best alternative fuel.
- dynotesting, on 02/19/2009, -0/+1Mirror:
http://www.zangani.com/node/3085 - knowitman, on 02/17/2009, -0/+1You can make ethanol from non food sources.
- greevar, on 02/17/2009, -0/+1Or, you can build an entirely electric vehicle with a lithium titanate battery which can charge in 10-15 mins and runs for about 150-200 miles. The Lightning GT is using this technology right now.
- inactive, on 02/18/2009, -0/+0Please check out the Rocky Mountain Institute - www.rmi.org
It is a non-profit focused on addressing the problem you are talking about "JoeHammer" unfortunately the government doesn't throw money at this organization but quite a few private sector donors do - gkiltz, on 02/18/2009, -0/+0I hate to be the skunk at the picnic, but it would actually be both financially and environmentally cheaper to just make bio-diesel out of any of those sources, and guess what: it would have more USABLE hydrogen!
Someone needs to stay awake in physics class! - ARTLUKM, on 02/17/2009, -0/+0You can't wait 15 minutes to juice up after 300 miles of solid interstate driving? Rapid charging is only needed on the interstates, and a few points inside cities. Everywhere else can be trickle charge. Every time your car is parked it can be charging, whether it's in your garage, on the side of the street in a downtown area, at a resturant, whatever.
The electrical grid can actually support a ton of EVs, especially if the majority of charging is done during off-peak hours. It's a myth that it cannot. There have been studies to show this.
Yes, the grid will need to improve for the time when EVERY car will be EV. But that won't be for a long time anyway. Point is we can START with EVs now. We could not START with hydrogen for a very long time. - fishdog86, on 02/18/2009, -0/+0couldn't they use enzymes that react the cellulose to some other carbon based by product that exsists as a solid, and use it as a soil addative? but i totally see where your coming from with the need for clean electricity
- repmekevets, on 02/17/2009, -1/+1best solution i've set so far: hydrogen produced using solar power -> hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (like the honda fcx clarity)
given you live in sunny southern california. - Barackalypse, on 02/17/2009, -1/+1Yet another alternative energy article that fails to mention cost. I'm going to guess based on the fact that they don't mention cost and that it takes 14 enzymes, that it is yet another non-economical process.
- fishdog86, on 02/18/2009, -0/+0Ivanmarsh may just be a pot head, but i doubt it, hemp is one of the most sustainable crops that can be grown. Low THC crops are slowly loosing the pot conatations and becoming more wide spread as a commercial crop so using hemp makes a lot of sense dave 122.
- rendereduseless, on 02/17/2009, -1/+1Sweet, now we can just start cutting more trees down for the wood chips! I can't see this turning out well.
- anizzle, on 02/17/2009, -1/+1There must be something wrong with this. Cause if it works like it says it does then this is the greatest discovery, maybe ever!
- brandita, on 02/17/2009, -1/+1Tomorrow's fuel-cell vehicles may be powered by enzymes that consume cellulose from woodchips or grass and exhale hydrogen.
Key word is MAY. Electric vehicles are much more likely to become popular in the short-term. - fishdog86, on 02/18/2009, -0/+0I think this is a great idea but i fear it wont ever be seen as a fuel alternative, mainly because the ethanol fuel lobby has such a strangle hold on policy. "sigh"
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