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Hawaii First State to Require Solar Water Heaters
ecogeek.org — The state of Hawaii has become the first in North America to require solar water heaters in new homes. The bill, signed into law by Republican Governor Linda Lingle this week, prohibits issuing building permits for single-family homes that do not have solar water heaters.
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- FuryOfThor, on 07/03/2008, -7/+13Sweet! Should put more pressure on solar companies to make cheaper cells, not that they aren't working on it already.
- Mahoney07, on 07/04/2008, -6/+12You think the Government should force solar power cell companies to do things? That's a horrible idea. We live in the land of the free.
- ausfahrt, on 07/04/2008, -5/+8Free to gouge consumers and make billions furthering the gap between people in a land where they are supposed to be treated as equals.
- chopsky, on 07/04/2008, -3/+5Mahoney is on the money.
- Rotzooi, on 07/04/2008, -1/+7Keep repeating how 'free' you are, I can hear your masters laughing from here.
- RomeyRome, on 07/04/2008, -0/+2It's your responsibility to close your own gap. Not the government's or any one company. Ausfahrt must be an Obama supporter.
- carpespasm, on 07/04/2008, -0/+9If by solar cells you mean photo voltaics then I don't think it'll do much. Solar water heaters and solar electric panels are two different markets using the same power source. Solar water heaters are cheap and easy to produce, so if there's price gouging in that market it's probably gonna drop quick, but I don't think it'll do much for photo voltaic prices.
- york2600, on 07/04/2008, -0/+4We're talking solar hot water heaters not photovoltaic panels aka solar panels. Solar hot water heaters don't use the "panels" you're referring to. We're talking simple old
- secrity, on 07/04/2008, -2/+1Solar hot water heaters do use "panels", they transfer heat from sunlight to a water based circulating fluid.
- FeartheKnighted, on 07/04/2008, -1/+4Just so there is no mix up, these don't work by using solar cells. Solar water heaters are MUCH more efficient than that, taking the heat from the sun and using it to directly heat the water. Basically, it's like putting a big tub of water on your roof.
An added benefit is it keeps your house a little cooler since heat that normally would go directly into your house is absorbed by the water first, then gets flushed down the drain.- WillyWonka, on 07/04/2008, -0/+2Benefit in Hawaii. In Alaska losing that heat down the drain would be a different story :)
- WillyWonka, on 07/04/2008, -0/+2Benefit in Hawaii. In Alaska losing that heat down the drain would be a different story :)
- Ricky81682, on 07/04/2008, -2/+1Um, forcing everyone to buy their products will DISCOURAGE them from improving. There just isn't the competition. Companies are making energy and gas-efficient cars BECAUSE THEY ARE EXPENSIVE. Pushing them will just create a willing market that has to buy, no matter the price.
- amoro99, on 07/08/2008, -0/+1Um, a guaranteed market will ENCOURAGE them to improve and get cheaper as there is more incentive for competitors to enter.
- Mahoney07, on 07/04/2008, -6/+12You think the Government should force solar power cell companies to do things? That's a horrible idea. We live in the land of the free.
- avengingturnip, on 07/03/2008, -18/+7I am certain that it is not a surprise to anybody that the Republican governor of Hawaii would sign such a philosophically fascist measure, not allowing home owners the choice in how they would heat their own water. It is probably or at least hopefully a surprise to most people to find out that the Polynesian Island nation of Hawaii is part of North America. It is not.
- SVOboy, on 07/03/2008, -2/+9I bet that republican, facist governor even has a law saying which side of the road you need to drive on! THE HORROR.
- avengingturnip, on 07/03/2008, -5/+3Thank you for that wonderful response. Frankly, if you want to use solar power to heat the water in your home, more power to you. If surprisingly, you do not find yourself always short of hot water, maybe others will be convinced it is a good idea too. You will probably have a lot less trouble convincing people that driving into oncoming traffic is clearly a bad idea. ;)
- relic180, on 07/04/2008, -1/+4@avenging
excessive energy consumption is bad. Bad for everybody in one way or another. Solar water heaters are 100% up front with minimal maintenance costs and zero energy costs. Realistically, not only is it immensely better for the planet, and for our national energy dependence situation, but it's actually also better economically after (I haven't done the math so I'm estimating) just a couple years.
Your ONLY real objection would be that you don't like being told what to do, and would rather chose the short-sighted and self-center resolution just for the principle of the matter. - avengingturnip, on 07/04/2008, -0/+1@relic
My very real concern is that there are so many people who have no qualms telling other people what to do. - relic180, on 07/04/2008, -0/+1For example, people telling me that I have to live with, and respect, willfully ignorant people with no sense of social belonging, only a self indulgent indifference to those around them?
Yes, believe me I have qualms. - avengingturnip, on 07/05/2008, -1/+1Or for instance, people telling me that I have to live with and respect sanctimonious @ssholes who cannot get over themselves and their own sense of superiority.
- relic180, on 07/04/2008, -1/+4You obviously haven't the slightest clue about how many hundreds of restrictions they already put on new construction and have since any of us have been alive. Even more on commercial property.
Just one more, especially one that is in such an obviously positive direction, is hardly fascist. But at least you've made it crystal clear just how willing you are to cherry pick your objectionable topics.- avengingturnip, on 07/04/2008, -2/+1You obviously haven't the slightest clue about what I know since I know the building codes very well. I work in the field. You obviously also have not ideas at how those regulations are arrived at. Here is a hint: not by grandstanding politicians but by reasoned consensus by people who have some knowledge to the issues at hand. I did not cherry pick. The incompetent, corrupt, and self-aggrandizing governor of Hawaii did that. You are cool with it however as long as you agree on a visceral level. Good show.
- relic180, on 07/04/2008, -0/+1You should expect dismissive comments like mine when you throw around words like 'fascist' to address your water heater rights. Especially someone involved in construction who should know full well the extensive list of regulations already imposed on new construction.
- johnpaul191, on 07/04/2008, -1/+6Yeah! the same jerks that won't let us fill our walls with asbestos fibers! Who do they think they are!
- SVOboy, on 07/03/2008, -2/+9I bet that republican, facist governor even has a law saying which side of the road you need to drive on! THE HORROR.
- jacothedevil, on 07/04/2008, -2/+11this kind of technology, assuming its priced right and efficient, needs to be pushed and promoted at a much faster rate. in california, a solar panel setup will set you back about 15k (including the state and federal subsidies) so it's still kind of pricy, but why not start small and go big later.
- relic180, on 07/04/2008, -2/+2I suspect that some of those prices have been artificially inflated at the coercion of the natural gas and/or oil lobby.
Just another reason to hate them, at least for me. - Yookji, on 07/04/2008, -0/+1relic, the prices are so high because it's such a (relatively) new technology and a percentage of the cost has to pay for research and development. While solar power and solar water heaters are not cost effective in most of the United States, they are cost effective in the southwest and Hawaii.
- relic180, on 07/04/2008, -2/+2I suspect that some of those prices have been artificially inflated at the coercion of the natural gas and/or oil lobby.
- ashtsuji, on 07/04/2008, -5/+5Now that its mandated, the tax credits for voluntary soloar water heater installation will go away. Also, the govenor talks about providing affordable housing. I'd like to know how that will be possible if an additional $20K will be required to cover the cost of the solar system.
- relic180, on 07/04/2008, -0/+5In areas that this becomes mandated, new solar water heater producers will enter the market to fill the increasing demand. Because it's a legal requirement, the majority of the market should be drawn to less expensive models and to stay competitive companies will lower prices in an attempt to lure business away from the other guys.
So, mandating this should effectively lower the price of units. If you figure the actual energy savings into the mix, and rising cost of natural gas and oil, the long term price increase becomes negligible if not actually lower than with traditional heating appliances. - dood, on 07/04/2008, -0/+7Solar water heaters don't cost $20K. I think you might have confused solar water heaters with photovoltaic panels (electricity).
http://www.google.com/products?q=solar+water+heate ...
- relic180, on 07/04/2008, -0/+5In areas that this becomes mandated, new solar water heater producers will enter the market to fill the increasing demand. Because it's a legal requirement, the majority of the market should be drawn to less expensive models and to stay competitive companies will lower prices in an attempt to lure business away from the other guys.
- ivan423, on 07/04/2008, -3/+30Hawaii is in North America?
- Rotzooi, on 07/04/2008, -2/+11Yeah, it's the set they built for 'Lost'.
- NeoCortex, on 07/04/2008, -3/+3Everyone knows it was built for Jurassic Park. I think Lost bought Hawaii at a yard sale a few years ago to use for the show.
- lamech, on 07/04/2008, -1/+2And where they filmed Gilligan's Island, Magnum PI, Baywatch Hawaii and Jurassic Park. It also happens to be where I live, but in an apartment building that has been using solar power for water heating for years.
- Rotzooi, on 07/04/2008, -2/+11Yeah, it's the set they built for 'Lost'.
- gavinhudson, on 07/04/2008, -4/+8Go Hawaii!
- EatingPie, on 07/04/2008, -7/+9This should also be mandated in Southern California. And instead of just water heaters, it should be electricity generation -- and you can actually run your meter backwards by routing excess electricity you generate back into the grid. There's a veritable sea of rooftops cooking in the sun over here.
So why aren't we doing this? With all the talk about "alternative energy" from both candidates, this would be an awesome program the government could subsidize, and it could be done immediately. The only drawback is that its benefits vary per region.
-Pie- Truckondo, on 07/04/2008, -3/+3Why would someone digg this comment down? I have seen this technology in Ladera Ranch, CA. I did a home theater install at this dudes house and he showed us the solar power "box". When he told it ran back-wards sometimes, I nearly lost my mind.
- secrity, on 07/04/2008, -0/+5How much did the photovoltaic installation cost? What is the payback time? Solar water heating is reasonably cheap to install when building a new house and the technology is fairly mature; photovoltaics are quite expensive.
- Truckondo, on 07/04/2008, -3/+3Why would someone digg this comment down? I have seen this technology in Ladera Ranch, CA. I did a home theater install at this dudes house and he showed us the solar power "box". When he told it ran back-wards sometimes, I nearly lost my mind.
- poidh, on 07/04/2008, -10/+5Impossible. Republicans are evil.
Or isn't that viewpoint fashionable any more?- aspec, on 07/04/2008, -0/+2No, you're doing fine. But now everyone is evil. And generally, it's easier to pick just one of the subsections of a party. I've found that if you just say "Neocons" no one questions you, mostly because it just sounds evil.
- poidh, on 07/04/2008, -0/+2Ah yes, the evil NeoCons! But even they are not as bad as the Zionist Cabal, the Illuminati and the New World Order lying to us about 9/11. AIEEEEEEEE!
- aspec, on 07/04/2008, -0/+2No, you're doing fine. But now everyone is evil. And generally, it's easier to pick just one of the subsections of a party. I've found that if you just say "Neocons" no one questions you, mostly because it just sounds evil.
- SolarPandaBot, on 07/04/2008, -3/+7This is great news, though I'm surprised free market forces haven't already made this the de facto case. Hawaii has the nation's highest electricity rates (I've heard up to 30 cents/kWh in some areas) and is almost completely dependent on oil for its generation. With that in mind, solar hot water seems to be a no brainer for any home on the islands
- greenm1981, on 07/04/2008, -2/+2That's because markets rarely work the way they do in our economics textbooks.
- bigsteve3OOO, on 07/04/2008, -0/+3"That's because markets rarely work the way I wanted them to so I used to government to force people to do things my way."
Fixed that for you geenm1981 thats what you really meant. - cyrax04, on 07/05/2008, -0/+2Couldn't have said it better steve. If you need some econ help greenm head over to www.mises.org
- bigsteve3OOO, on 07/04/2008, -0/+3"That's because markets rarely work the way I wanted them to so I used to government to force people to do things my way."
- greenm1981, on 07/04/2008, -2/+2That's because markets rarely work the way they do in our economics textbooks.
- 3pair, on 07/04/2008, -2/+4solar hot water heating doesn't cost 15-20k to install.... heating is way less expensive then PV, and I think that's where some readers are getting confused. A solar hot water heater essentially just absorbs the heat from your roof and uses it to heat your hot water. It even says in the article that the cost increase for a new home will only be around 2-5k depending on rebates.
- OffPiste, on 07/04/2008, -5/+2You obviously don't live in Hawaii or know ANYTHING about our housing market.
- Kruchbaum, on 07/04/2008, -0/+2Hes talking about the price of installing a solar water heater and hes correct. Its only $2000-$5000 dollars. And yes I do live in hawaii, and I know a lot about the housing market.
- OffPiste, on 07/04/2008, -5/+2You obviously don't live in Hawaii or know ANYTHING about our housing market.
- NeoHomer, on 07/04/2008, -9/+3It isn't as sunny there as many are led to believe. Waste of resources. A tank-less water heater will do a far better job and cost much less. If solar was so great, there'd be more houses that use it. The reason many don't use solar is cost and performance.
We need more global warming before solar is worth it. I'm gonna go spew some carbon right now to do my part!- diggless, on 07/04/2008, -0/+2why not use both?
can you quantify your idea that its a waste of resources? and also substantiate that a tankless heater by itself is better than a solar heater with a tankless.- Ricky81682, on 07/04/2008, -0/+0"Why not use both?" Because money doesn't grow on trees? More regulations will just add to the costs of homes. If people valued solar water heaters more than their cost, they would put in every home immediately. Some do, some don't.
- diggless, on 07/04/2008, -0/+2why not use both?
- theaznone, on 07/04/2008, -5/+0wasn't this on digg a few day ago???
- PoisonousDrool, on 07/04/2008, -2/+3My previous house came with a solar water heater (Texas). It was a huge waste of money. You have to pay to have it serviced every year or so ($80-$250). There was an additional cost when we had our roof replaced. Home insurance costs more. In summer, it didn't save any gas for the water heater because the gas company has a minimum charge per month. We sold the house and the new owners had it removed (they were smarter than me). They might be a good idea to heat a swimming pool, but they won't save you any money heating water.
- diggless, on 07/04/2008, -0/+6you dont have to have it serviced every year unless you dont know how to use a screwdriver. and if it cost you 250 bucks you were being royally screwed over.
if it wasnt saving you gas usage then there was something wrong. typically homes see a 40-75 percent decrease in gas usage. And with energy costs rising it makes more sense every day.
if it can heat a swimming pool why cant it heat your water? I fail to see how it would be good at heating pool water and bad at heating potable water?
- diggless, on 07/04/2008, -0/+6you dont have to have it serviced every year unless you dont know how to use a screwdriver. and if it cost you 250 bucks you were being royally screwed over.
- lordmike, on 07/04/2008, -3/+5I experienced solar water heaters staying in cheap hotels around the mediterranean sea... The sun there is fiercely hot there, and yet, you would be lucky not to freeze your balls off taking a shower. The only chance you had for a possibly lukewarm shower would be to bathe at 4 in the afternoon... at that point, it would be warm enough that your balls would not fall off, instead merely retreating for protective cover deep inside your abdomen where it would require several jumping jacks after your shower to dislodge them. I can see why folks in the area did not bathe frequently.. it was an Guantanimo-like ordeal to maintain any sort of cleanliness with solar water heaters. Granted, the technology has hopefully improved since then, but there is no way you will get any hot water at night if you use up the tank's store... I certainly hope the governor allows for a backup water heating option for people...
- Urzeitlich, on 07/04/2008, -0/+2I'm not sure to digg or bury you.
- diggless, on 07/04/2008, -0/+7a good solar heater collector can heat the glycol mixture above the boiling point of water. If the water wasnt able to melt your skin off then someone has done something wrong.
People seem to mix up a poor installation or maintenance with a flawed technology.
just get a black garden hose and fill it with water and set it in the sun for about an hour and then drain the water onto your skin, then tell me that heating water with the sun doesnt work.
- restlessmouse, on 07/04/2008, -9/+4We need less government, not more. They just don't get it.
- chopsky, on 07/04/2008, -2/+2No one gets it.
- Disneyisevil50, on 07/04/2008, -2/+5You're all a bunch of hypocrites and to stupid to be able to tell why
- kosmoss, on 07/04/2008, -1/+2Solar energy FTW!
- jpop, on 07/04/2008, -2/+4While it's a good idea in a energy crunch situation, who wants to bet the governor will be the last one to have a solar water heater installed? I notice it only applies to new housing in a down market.
- Beatmiser, on 07/04/2008, -0/+1Actually most contractors here in Hawaii have been doing it for the last 5-10 years. Lingle assuredly already has one.
- Barackalypse, on 07/04/2008, -5/+3And what would you say, if using the same power of the State, if a coal mining place like West Virginia mandated all new homes built there have coal burning furnaces? It would be the same legislative power, it just wouldn't agree with your political viewpoints. If you're too foolish to see why the government making mandates like this is a bad idea, you really should read more about the police states of the past.
- bigsteve3OOO, on 07/04/2008, -7/+3every law is a restriction of your freedom and an increase in Government tyranny. Even laws that seem to make sense.
- duke, on 07/04/2008, -1/+1Oh, go live in the woods!!
- Beatmiser, on 07/04/2008, -0/+6I live in Hawaii and have a solar water heater. I can tell you that it's great. Only time I don't like it is in our 'winter' which is just a rainy season where we can go for a week without sun. Nothing like waking up to a cold shower. Good news is though that even with a solar water heater you can in fact turn on the electricity for the heat if need be.
- teabagginz, on 07/04/2008, -0/+1i live in town and walk to work everyday. i've only walked maybe a week out of the year where it was cloudy/rainy, otherwise it's sunny as a mofo!
- scecilio, on 07/04/2008, -2/+2I hope they make exceptions for permits required to make repairs.
Say a home owner without solar water heating hires an electrician that needs to obtain a permit to fix hazardous electrical problems. What could be a $1000 job is now over $6000 if I'm reading the article correctly.
There is now a huge financial incentive to do non-verified work at the risk of the home owner. - detokaal, on 07/04/2008, -0/+3A bunch of lawmakers just made a fortune in stock options and campaign donations.
- beauley, on 07/04/2008, -0/+1With Global Warming on many people's minds, do we have any ideas of the best way to lessen the impact on our future, or maybe a possible relief of its possible ravages or even a possible key to its eventual reversal. Many scientific experts have proposed
http://www.quazen.com/Science/Technology/Solar-Pow ...
Solar Power, Source of Endless Energy - teabagginz, on 07/04/2008, -0/+2go bruddah lingle
- thinsoldier, on 07/04/2008, -1/+3Hawaii:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=h ...
....not so sure it's actually in "North America". - Pixelpaws, on 07/04/2008, -1/+2This is a really poor tradeoff. Forcing people to pay several thousand dollars extra for something like this is not going to help the sinking economy right now. Considering how often water heaters generally need to be replaced, the consumer is never going to reach a break even point. It just makes living there even more prohibitively expensive.
- cyrax04, on 07/05/2008, -1/+1So people don't have the freedom to buy what energy source they want in Hawaii anymore? Govt - restricting freedoms since the beginning of time. Plus, the govt there just destroyed any competition of other services making it a quasi govt mandated service. Feeling bad for all those people who have to suffer from this arbitrary mandate.
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