What is Digg?70 Comments
- friend18, on 10/12/2007, -1/+27Great example of how great Solar Energy is.
- Trevino, on 10/12/2007, -0/+20Just make sure you are heavily subsidized.
- jo42, on 10/12/2007, -3/+23At $5M to put it up, he'll be making profit in about 9-10 years..
- maci01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18Feeling tells me he did some investigating and planning when applying for 5 million dollars in loans.
- rye425, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15^ if you read the story he obtained loans
the bad part of this idea is that he will make a profit in 15 to 16 years so this is not a good idea to make a living off of, unless you can hold out. Kids will be rich though. - cviebrock, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Nope, they just become (slightly) less efficient each year. They'll still be producing electricity in 10, 15, 20 years.
But, let's just say he makes $500,000/yr for 25 years. And assume he took out $5 million in loans at 7%, uses all the income to pay off the loans, and then earns 5% on the excess once the loans are paid off. If my math is correct, he'll pay off the loans in 17 years and will have pocketed $5 million at the end of 25 years. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11That is a really great idea. Too bad I live in Michigan, with maybe 5 months of usable sun, otherwise I might look into this.
- riddermark, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060728/NEWS/607280380/1002/NEWS01
- crazycracker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11won't the panels die out before he could pay this off
- blackb0x, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8$600,000 - $250,000 = $350,000 per year in pure profit
$350,000 - ~33% in taxes = $234,500 in real pure profit.
I don't see the problem.
only interest though - joelito, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Don't worry, he could still produce power using his pigs' manure.
- Petrarch1603, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10Good story, too bad the NY Times link will go bad soon
- culbeda, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6To quote a certain no-talent hotel heiress with more popularity than brains:
"That's hot!" - walterd93, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5And now we can power houses, yay! When were you in elem. school...the 50's?
(no offense). - tbonemoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5its more of a long term investment. It pays the bills, and yes, he'll have the loans to pay off, he can survive on $600,000 a year
- daldredge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@diggmaddy
Where do you think the heat comes from? - cvrti5, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7I imagine that when everyone starts to put up solar panels he will be back to pigs.
- kezekiel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Maintenance is practically nil for photovoltaic systems, especially compared to competing technologies. The systems are virtually 100% solid-state; the only moving parts are the fans on the power conversion & transformation equipment. Typical service involves replacing blown fuses and logic boards. Nothing like servicing the huge turbines and reciprocating engines that are typically used to produce electricity.
- sroberson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6In this country, we have laws such that any electricity we generate must be sold back to the grid at market rates. But in Germany, they're really encouraging solar and renewable energy by making the power companies have to buy the locally produced energy at 3 times market rates. That's why Germany has some of the highest rates of solar energy and renewables production per capita in the world.
- NanoStuff, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Back when I was in elementary school; in the early days of solar power, we were given an inspiring demonstration.
A big van with solar panels EVERYWHERE came around, in fact it would be more appropriate to call it a solar panel on wheels. Then a guy with a little FM radio stepped out of the van and proceeded to demonstrate how he can listen to the news entirely on solar energy. It was cloudy at first, but when the sun came out you better believe it, we heard the radio! It was soft and scratchy, but sure enough it was there. Wow we all thought. - joel2600, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9where does a poor pig farmer come up with 5 million?
- seanl, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8This story should be titled "Clever pig farmer discovers new way to milk government for tax dollars."
- njbair, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4That's still solar energy, guy. Just not photoelectric.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Wow this sounds like a great investment. I should try this.
- EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I really hope solar and other alternative energy methods will succeed, but this just shows how far we have to go still. $3,000/yr. per acre is not particularly impressive for farmland. Subtract loan payments of $500,000/yr., energy subsidies that double or triple his profits, and other costs and he's at least $250,000/yr. in the red.
I'm still excited about programs like this--I just hope the numbers improve quickly. - kezekiel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Not to obsess on details here, but it still is solar power--just not photovoltaics. The nice thing about solar thermal power is that the heat can be used for other purposes like industrial processes and heating and cooling.
- twiztedambience, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3depends on what kind of panels he put in. In about 20 years he could be competing with much more efficient panels, or forms of energy - by then will it be profitable?
Despite the large numbers involved, this will have to be a tightly run business which could die easily at one wrong decision - by someone who just learned about the technology. - jpmkm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3blackb0x -
if he just pays the interest every year then he'll never pay down the principle. He's going to have to pay much more than $250k/year if he wants to pay off $5 million in a reasonable amount of time. - sroberson, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I see you guys aren't very business savvy, but profitability all depends on the terms of the financing. If one could get a loan for $5 million at 6% over 30 years, you'd have a $30K/mo payment. If his solar income is $600K/year, that's $50K/mo. So, after his mortgage payment, he'd have $20K/month left over. But he probably couldn't borrow that much money for that long, I imagine, so his return might not be so good. He also may have put some of the money down himself.
- riddermark, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@rye425:
he put up the solar farm because he couldn't make enough money selling pigs to pay his bills. the solar farm allows him to pay all his bills. he's making a profit right *now*... and the bank will make a profit in the future. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2you haven't been to alaska, have you?
- Twango, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3It'll never work. Uh. It'll cost too much. Uh. It's not cost effective. Uh. It's UNAMERICAN!
"Fulton's Folly." Just dare to do something new in this country, and all the chicken-littles start bugawking. At least he got off his dead ass and tried to find a solution, instead of grabbing a beer and playing another hand of solitaire and complaining about the government. - CaptainChad, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Here is a permanent link that will not disappear, and, if I recall correctly, does not require you to log in:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/28/world/europe/28germany.html?ex=1311739200&en=ca87c722af0f2adb&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
"Regular" NY Times links can be converted to this format via this site:
http://nytimes.blogspace.com/genlink - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Don't worry, he could still produce power using his pigs' manure."
True...but he'd have to move the whole operation underground...in the middle of a desert. - ErnstHot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2diggmaddy
Yes, the heat from the sun... It has everything to do with solar power, it just uses a slighty less direct process to go from electromagnetic waves to electricity. - GoodBrain, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@ASoggyWaffle,
Investing a borrowed $5M in stock doesn't sound like a great 25 year investment to me. First off, good luck finding someone who will make such a long term loan of that size to an unproven investor for stock speculation. Second, if you do find someone who will make the loan to you, the interest rate will probably be pretty high. Third, no matter what the interest rate, you'll still have to be making some pretty substantial payments on the loan for those 25 years, which is going to reduce the amount you have to invest, and eat into your long-term returns.
Good luck to you though. Say, I've got a great investment you might be interested in... - robbiedo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Why do some of you assume that he made a bad investment. We have no idea from that article what the financial details are; what the manufacturers service agreement is; what the interest rate on the loan is; etc.
I am more interested in how the financials work on a thousand pigs whose refuse goes to work for even more electricity. Does he put the biomass generated electricty on the same meter that the solar power is on, and thus get triple the rate? - CorpT, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Germany uses the Euro, not the mark.
- everfalling, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4see, this is what you gotta do. spend money to make money. sure solar power and other alternative fuels are expensive now, but they pay for themselves in about a decade, and all the while they help the environment. people these days think too short term, and that's why we're running ourselves into the ground with our dependance on oil. shoot, instead of drilling for oil in alaska, why not set up solar arrays there? it's got longer days since it's so far north, and the cold would certainly keep the panels efficient. i donno how you'd form it away from the wild life but still, worth a looking into right?
i'd be nice to see a day where people walk or drive past wind power generators and see them as part of the rolling landscape. - maci01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Eh -- I'll take 200,000+ when I'm 50.
- dH2K, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Maybe he could build wind powered generators as a combo input energy source.
- Hawk2007, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Cool idea, but expensive to setup.
- riddermark, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1http://stirlingenergy.com
these guys are building a 20,000 dish array on 4,500 acres in California. supposedly even more efficient that solar panels at around 30%. exciting stuff. - Stoutlimb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I think he will be crying when Thin Film solar is cheaply available. That $5,000,000 he spent in solar panels will now cost about $20,000. Then everyone and their dog will do solar farms, and the price will go down.
- everfalling, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1no. i just watched that movie insomnia once. ha ha. again, just playing around with an idea, nothing serious ^_^
- coolbru, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It might be less direct, but it's both cheaper AND more efficient than photovoltaics.
- jinexile, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You know the extreme daylight hours is only during the summer right? It's pretty much the exact opposite in the winter. I live far enough north to experience it... in the summer it gets dark at 2-4am and light again at 5-7am, in the winter it gets light at 9-10am and dark at 5-6pm.
- blackdiamond555, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Inefficient at the moment yes, but if the gov't doesn't encourage solar technology now in 10 years when we really need cheap solar power, it won't be there. 3x the price will spur new solar techs thus lowering price and increasing their use and generate more electricy keeping prices lower in the long term. That's when the Germans will turn around and laugh at the US who isn't encouraging solar's use (as much) And yes, there is an energy shortage as we're seeing in California again with 3 days last week of record usage. The local utility where I live raised prices 25% this year with plans to raise them further in the future. At some point the prices might go up to the gov't current levels
- Waylander1970, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Big thing missing, I love the idea of solar, but the panels do not last. Someone care to factor in maintenance? I think he would be pushed to break even after covering panel repair and other maintenance.
From what I have heard, panels go from 5 - 25 years varying on quality. - alx359, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Kudos for the guy, but feel he's sitting in a thin beam in the long-term. When other desperate farmers start doing the same in awhile with probably cheaper technology, he will get lot of competition w/o having paid the loans yet. Think he needs to diversify (or sell) until he's profitable ASAP. For example, outsourcing an industrial fridge service in some other part of his land, or anything else that adds extra value from electricity in the summer.
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