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Evangelical Powerhouses Ignoring God's Green Earth

desmogblog.com — A voting statistic recently aired on CNN's Situation Room that reminded me of the massive power held by the leaders of the US Evangelical Christian movement.Of the 126 million votes cast in the last presidential election, 24% of voters identified themselves as white/born again Christians, and 78% of that demographic voted Republican.

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  • EmperorAnton, on 11/05/2007, -8/+17Lets just ignore the evidence.
    • pintomp3, on 11/05/2007, -7/+17they do it with evolution, why not global warming?
      • Audacitor, on 11/03/2007, -2/+2But when it comes to government conspiracies, everything is conclusive proof...
  • anjamerret, on 11/08/2007, -16/+43These people are a threat to the world.
    • UberNick, on 11/05/2007, -6/+13Let's waterboard the bastards!
      • Sapulator, on 11/03/2007, -5/+3thats ***** up.
        what you just said is prejudice.
    • bjornski, on 11/05/2007, -5/+6These are the radical clerics we should be afraid of.
    • Audacitor, on 11/05/2007, -2/+3Don't worry too much. Conversely, the world is threat to these people.
    • tehxen3, on 11/03/2007, -4/+3I'm not religious but at least they vote for candidates who aren't raising taxes and expanding big government as much as those backed by atheist population.
    • voisine, on 11/05/2007, -3/+7I'm an evangelical. I'm also a libertarian. I believe things like that having gay sex is a sin, as is any other sex outside of marriage. I don't however believe the Government should use violence in the form of law enforcement to force people not to sin. As long as you don't directly infringe on my rights, I have no right to infringe on yours. But this also means that I have the right to argue for and convince people to live godly lives through non-violent means as protected by the first amendment. The ones who claim that some group of people are a threat to the world, just over the last few decades, are the ones who've supported and committed the most evil acts of mass murder the world has ever seen. Stalin, Mao, Hitler.... I think you're the real threat, not me.
      • MatrixBoy14, on 11/05/2007, -2/+1and i am a pagan :) and authoritarian
      • grr74, on 11/05/2007, -4/+2From a catholic (me) to my fellow evangelical misfits: ***** off. (This is the most christian I have been in a while).
    • mikerand, on 11/03/2007, -1/+0These people = 18.7% of voters (republican) or about 23.5 million people out of a nation of about 300 million.
      But not all conservative Christians listen to Dobson or hear about global warming from the pulpit. I'm one and I've never heard a thing about it from any religious source. So this article is really a lot of noise about not much. And many Christians believe, as a part of their faith, that we must take good care of the planet. Abusing God's creation is a sin.
  • chewbacca77, on 11/05/2007, -15/+15I wouldn't quite call it "ignoring"... maybe "understating the importance".
    Also, my geology professor (who is far from religious) said that the Earth is actually in a fairly cool phase, so it should be warming naturally now.
    • AROZ, on 11/05/2007, -2/+7And the melting of ice caps very often surpasses the predicted rates. So we are warming the planet, but is does our contribution outweigh the natural warming?
      • rustintable, on 11/05/2007, -1/+1If it doesn't yet (And all evidence points to it does) it will get worse. There is no harm in developing better alternatives now.
    • cheeseysynapse, on 11/06/2007, -11/+5i noticed your comment had zero politics in it, yet 2 people decided to give you a thumbs down. but i will get political - i love how leftists are always pointing out to the "evangelicals" how they are immoral....................all these leftists are so afraid of of what evangelicals think and do (take anjamerret's comment above) but these liberals want to tell the evangelicals how they are misrepresenting the bible and know more about morals and the bible than the evangelicals................so much so, that they berate them for not thinking like themselves. magnanimous bastards!
      • trogdoor, on 11/06/2007, -3/+10If Jesus Camp is at all representative ( maybe it's not? ) then Evangelicals do not know their own religion very well, for one thing they don't know the difference between speaking in tongues ( speaking and having everyone hear you and understand you in their own native language, as the Apostles did in Acts (2:1) ) and spewing gibberish that nobody understands like possessed idiots as they encouraged their children to do.

        /Atheist BTW
        • adrianmonk, on 11/03/2007, -3/+5Stuff like "Jesus Camp" (I haven't seen the movie, but I've read about it enough to think I have an idea) is representative of a certain segment of Christianity.

          This is an oversimplification, but basically, think of Christianity as subdivided into two groups: Catholic and Protestant. Now, within Protestants, there are Evangelicals and non-Evangelicals. And within Evangelicals there are moderates, conservatives, and fundamentalists.

          The type of people described in "Jesus Camp" are conservative or fundamentalist Evangelical Protestant Christians.

          Also, for what it's worth, speaking in tongues in the way that a lot of Pentecostals do it is pretty marginal even within the more conservative part of the spectrum of Christianity. I was raised in a Southern Baptist church where many people believed in a literal hell, 7-day creationism (i.e. anti-evolution), and biblical inerrancy, where women were not allowed in many positions of leadership, where divorce had a strong social stigma, where we were not allowed to gamble or dance (at least not at church functions), where drinking was strongly frowned upon, and so on, and we thought for the most part that the people who spoke in tongues were extremist wackos.
      • Murdats, on 11/03/2007, -3/+3yes, I am afraid of a large, powerful body of extremist 'christians'
        just as I am afraid of extremist muslims with bombs, but do you want to know what the sad thing is, its the extremeist christians that scare me more then the extremist muslims. why? because these particular christians have done and continue to do much more damage on a global scale (and helped create extremist muslims aswell)
      • Sapulator, on 11/06/2007, -2/+3Unfortunately, many "christians" get carried away in an emotional trip, especially in groups- thinking that they are becoming closer to God if they force the Gifts of the Spirit upon themselves and others. That in turn creates false prophets, fake tongue speaking, and ultimately, cults.
      • BenRS, on 11/06/2007, -1/+1Sigh, it's alright cheeseysynapse, just wait for the democrats to take the presidency and then mabye diggers will become rational again. This is just silly, and the sad thing is that I would be surprised if an intelligent comment that disagreed with leftist (I voted Kerry just for information's sake) views ever got dugg here anymore.

        hypocrites...
  • graviplana, on 11/05/2007, -9/+3Dugg x2.
  • Berkana, on 11/06/2007, -6/+32I am an Evangelical Christian, and I am pissed at how easily Evangelical Christians have lent themselves to being deceived by the Bush admin. David Kuo exposed how the Bush admin pretty much gamed the entire Evangelical community with polarizing rhetoric, but rather than taking a critical look at the administration's abuses and horrendous hypocrisy, they all "picked at the speck in their brother's eye" while ignoring the plank in their own.

    Everyone who self-identifies as an Evangelical Christian needs to see the following clips, which are interviews with the former second in command in Bush's Faith Based initiatives program. It is damning evidence (as if any more were needed) that trusting Bush exposed the shameful faults of the mentality and attitudes of evangelical voters, who often blindly trusted Bush because he professed to be Christian, while totally ignoring and dismissing exposed abuses. Cursed is the who trusts in man! . . . The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? (Jeremiah 17)

    "Tempting Faith", covered in 60 minutes, Part. 1:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DkUBfOLZH4
    Part 2:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWMLXAFO0Kk

    "Tempting Faith", as covered by Olberman, part 1:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKWLYC2BSSA
    part 2:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFuAbMaeyUg
    • rz8472, on 11/03/2007, -2/+5Yes, I'm quite familiar with David Kuo. He and Jim Wallis are excellent examples of how to be politically-active evangelical Christians, and not give in to the politics of intolerance and demagogery at the same time. There are much larger issues than "OMG gays are taking over the government" (which is actually a horribly distorted non-issue) that actually affect the nation - and the planet.
    • drjones78, on 11/03/2007, -6/+0Yea, Bush doesnt really mean it when he says the Earth is 6000 years old! Impeach!
    • Iceberg007, on 11/06/2007, -2/+0Excellent post, Berkana! I completely agree.
    • ambrosious, on 11/06/2007, -0/+1It's your own fault you were "deceived." Voting for a candidate based on same-sex marriage and abortion issues instead of economic, environmental or foreign policy ones. It was obvious to me what kind of leader Bush was, even when I was in 5th grade and he was first elected.

      The point of this article is that Evangelicals only care about an extremely narrow set of issues and their belief in the "second coming" makes them careless about long-term issues.
  • hiPpymIck, on 11/03/2007, -4/+5did they vote for him (twice) because..
    “Ye have heard that it hath been said, ‘Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy.’ But I say unto you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you"

    ..and they took it a bit too literally
  • natedouglas, on 11/06/2007, -6/+17The article used the word "stewardship." That's it exactly. I'm an atheist, but I do believe that stewardship of the earth should be a natural responsibility as much as freedom should be considered a natural right.

    I see Christianity leading more often to the same sin of priority that they accuse atheists of: of thinking man is the pinnacle, and that all else is beneath consideration.

    (Idiots. Woman is clearly the pinnacle)
    • natedouglas, on 11/03/2007, -4/+12Ignore that last part. My wife was looking over my shoulder.
      • cmpshotty, on 11/06/2007, -4/+6Your computer is in the kitchen?
        • jhshukla, on 11/05/2007, -3/+1computers in every room in the house. great! the real question is what can possibly compel you to get up in the first place?
      • misssue, on 11/06/2007, -4/+6No, he is bringing dinner to his wife at her lab and happened to hop onto her computer in her office to check his email and digg before picking their kids up from their afterschool activities and feeding them dinner.
      • aukxsona, on 11/03/2007, -3/+3We know we are...don't be ashamed to admit it.
  • rz8472, on 11/05/2007, -6/+10Actually some far-right evangelicals actually acknowledge the evidence, BUT act AGAINST it thinking that it will speed up the rapture. Therefore it's good to have endless war, even more pollution, and letting New Orleans drown.
    • misssue, on 11/09/2007, -4/+1Let's get all this rapture nonsense out of the argument (and I am not addressing the poster directly). Revelations is about the Roman Empire. It was written to 7 churches as a letter of comfort during intense persecution. Basically, there is no rapture. It is not in the Bible. Jesus will come back at a time that no one knows and then that will be it. I really wish people would get out of that Rapture thing. In fact, dump literal 7 days too.
      • Charlotte_Web, on 11/03/2007, -0/+1I Thessalonians 4:17?
        • misssue, on 11/03/2007, -0/+217Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

          This describes the Second Coming...not the Rapture...as in Left Behind series rapture. I don't think I made myself clear and I apologize.
      • ambrosious, on 11/06/2007, -1/+1"In fact, dump literal 7 days too. "

        Why don't we just dump the whole thing and use our brains and our hearts to come up with sensible morals to live by.
    • Charlotte_Web, on 11/05/2007, -1/+6I've been a Christian for 20 years, and I've NEVER heard another Christian say that trashing the environment was a way to speed up the Second Coming.
      • ambrosious, on 11/06/2007, -1/+1I have. There are a lot of evangelicals in my family and they speak openly about having no regard for the environment, deny global warming, and say that species loss is nothing to worry about because God gave us the planet to use for our own means at whatever cost to it.

        I don't get along very well with my family.
      • ambrosious, on 11/09/2007, -0/+1Ok, well either someone doesn't believe me or doesn't like what I have to say. All I can say is I have no reason to make this stuff up.
    • HunterSeeker42, on 11/05/2007, -1/+1Grade A FUD, 8472.
    • HunterSeeker42, on 11/05/2007, -2/+0DOUBLE POSTMAN
    • mikerand, on 11/05/2007, -0/+2That may be true, but these statements had to come from far right, borderline crazy people. The mainstream conservative Christian movement would not teach this because it's not a theologically correct position.
    • Pwelborn1, on 11/05/2007, -0/+1The most important issue to most evangelicals is Abortion. This has traditionally been the basis for the evangelical voting record since before Regan. The problem with the environmentalist arguments is that in the evangelical mind it just doesn't have the importance of the abortion issue. Abortion represents something that can be changed and would immediately affect millions of lives. I'd be willing to bet that any conservative could run and match Hillary or Obama issue for issue but if he/she were very vocal about ending abortion on demand they would develop a huge following by evangelicals.
  • scabbers, on 11/05/2007, -6/+3I'm sure the right-wing Christian talk radio hosts will help bail out your flooded home. Not.
  • geekee, on 11/03/2007, -4/+5You might also want to be concerned about the 1.2 billion in China who are more interested in economic growth than the environment, as their govt. stated.
    • ambrosious, on 11/06/2007, -0/+1People ARE concerned about them. Very. But do you expect China and India to improve if America takes no leadership on environmental issues, like global warming? Also, in developing countries at least they have (sort of) an excuse to pollute, which is that their country is still in the process of building vital infrastructure. In America, most of these evangelicals speaking out against environmental reform have vast personal wealth compared with those in China, and are only motivated by their narrow-minded dogma, not by economic incentive.
  • jmpeagle, on 11/06/2007, -9/+4people bitch and bitch about all the genocides going of in Africa but how bad would many of you feel if tomorrow, we executed every single evangelical in this country? Is eurgenics that bad? Can we not force evolution and eliminate those with less developed brains? Would not America be a better place if they simply "disappered". It may sound grotesque being put forth so bluntly but you know while their elimination might be a "tragedy", the world would be a better place.
    • moskaudancer, on 11/05/2007, -2/+5I'm just gonna back away slowly with both hands visible at all times.
    • twomeyw23334, on 11/04/2007, -2/+7You are disgusting, sick son of bitch. People with "well developed brains" don't advocate genocide jackass. They also know how to spell eugenics.
    • HUKI365, on 11/03/2007, -2/+2Yes, fine mate. Go execute all the evagelicals. Go ahead, make my day. But when some douche bag goes after you atheists, don't come crying to me.

      "But when they came after me, no one was left to say anything."
      • jmpeagle, on 11/05/2007, -3/+3Is there some unknown plethora of evangelicals standing up for other people's rights? This is why I am saying the world would be better without them.
        • adrianmonk, on 11/03/2007, -2/+2Why? So they can be replaced by people like you, who believe it's OK to execute anyone just because they disagree with your views? Religious freedom is a basic human right, but not only do you think people shouldn't have the freedom to practice whatever religious they wish, you think they shouldn't even have the freedom to believe what they want, and should instead be killed.

          Congratulations on having regressed even further back than civilization was when we first developed religious tolerance.
          • jmpeagle, on 11/05/2007, -5/+3Wow you are an idiot. I don't believe they ARE people. They are lesser life forms that cohabit this world with us no differently than cows do. Look at how poor and technologically backwards they are while in one of the most advanced countries in the world and their incomprehension of science. I don't think they can even remotely qualify as people.
          • fatesdefiance, on 11/05/2007, -0/+2@jmpeagle - Even the most ignorant Christian's "incomprehension of science" is most certainly exceeded by your lack of comprehension of Christians. You have no bloody clue what you're talking about.
            The vast majority of people in this nation are good and decent people, and many of those are highly intelligent and technically literate. And the vast majority of people in this nation are also religious people--mostly Christian.
            In short, pseudo-intellectual elitist bigots such as yourself are greatly outnumbered...thank God.
    • EuphopiaB, on 11/03/2007, -2/+2Go ahead. Just know that if you try I will not only oppose you, but I will come after you, your family, your friends, and anyone else possibly supporting you to stop you. I will kill you and your kind and I will laugh at your mutilated corpse. Why? Not that I really care; I am an animal and that's what I, biologically, must do to not be eliminated "for the greater good". I will fight so that in the end the man with the better genes wins. It won't be as easy as eliminating those who you intellectually oppose. Keep in mind, too, that religion exists for a reason. People fighting for "God" may be wrong to you, but in a fight they will win because God is the most enraging and motivating figure in human history. In the end, nature always wins.
      • jmpeagle, on 11/03/2007, -0/+2The most motivating force in the history of humanity is the ability to control economic activity. Religion is just one of the ways to do so. Every country, empire, city-state, tribe etc.. to ever exist has a dominant coalition/government whose interest is to control economic activity and rent-seeking behavior. Controlling/emilininating the poor/unwashed masses is actually about the easiest thing that can be done. They are the easiest group to persecute and remove from society and just happens that those of religous inclination are those people. There's a reason the bible belt states have such low incomes and education levels. Hell I can eliminate a lot of them by convincing them that joining the army is God's work and have them go to Iraq to basically have Christian crazies and Muslim crazie kill each other with the end result of everyone winning no matter who dies.
        • fatesdefiance, on 11/03/2007, -0/+1Do you seriously believe that 80% of the US population lives in the bible belt? Do you really think that the 250 million or so people in the US who describe themselves as religious will be all that easy to "eliminate?"
          Good luck with that.
    • skyfire1, on 11/05/2007, -1/+4Trolls running amok. Nothing to see here. Move along.
    • HunterSeeker42, on 11/03/2007, -0/+0I don't know how to respond to this. Are you really advocating genocide!? Good Christians use the mind that our God gave us, and appose anybody who advocates murder and hatred in the name of evolution and free thinking.

      But this is the internet, anyway, troll. Buried and reported.
    • rustintable, on 11/03/2007, -0/+0What a great opportunity for me to explain a little idea I had recently. I wonder sometimes if the internet can really cause positive social change. Logically it seems it should. New ideas are needed to solve the worlds problems. New ideas that can probably only be built on top of existing ideas. The idea proposed here is an old one. It is obviously stupid but there is a tiny bit of valid logic there that I believe could be useful. Now I know that the very large group that claim to be Cristian are extremely diverse. And I don't think that it is the Christan religion (A member of which I am not) is necessarily bad I think certain people who are bad like to say they are Christan to use it to make themselves appear better. But here is my idea. First of all it is not really intelligence that is the genetic trait that we should encourage it is empathy. You don't have to be smart to be a good citizen and to realize that experts in a given field are likely to be right and accept responsibility for your actions ect. You just need to care about the people around you.

      One way I was thinking that we might be able to create a sort of selective pressure biased towards people with empathy is the following.

      -Create a test for empathy (these exist). I would also add some questions about well accepted problems in the world and the technical facts about them. Require continuous testing to make it harder to cheat.
      -Restrict access to the tools of modern technology to those people who pass this test. The easiest such tools to restrict access to are web based ones. Some sort of Open ID compatible certification.
      -Encourage the businesses behind these technologies to use this system. Smart people could refuse to work for them unless they do.

      Technology gives individuals more and more power these days. Without it you will suffer and be less competitive.
    • ambrosious, on 11/06/2007, -0/+1Yikes.
  • pixelguru, on 11/05/2007, -7/+5If only the evangelical leadership would decree that all followers should walk into one of those big tractor-trailer sized shredders, 24% of our problems would be over.
  • liwii, on 11/05/2007, -5/+11God...Save Me From Your Followers! ;)
  • skews13, on 11/03/2007, -4/+3the republican party doesn't own the faithful.only the faithful can choose to be owned.
    • Murdats, on 11/06/2007, -0/+4and the republican party owns them because those chose to be owned by them
  • there, on 11/06/2007, -6/+9 This is a perfect example where statistics can lie. A christian that believes the words of Jesus would never go to war never mind start one.

    What the statistic should say is the "24% of voters identified that themselves as white/born again Christians and 78% of that demographic voted Republican"..are actually violent POS fascists that care only about one thing... themselves.

    Neo-conservatives make a big stink about about minor issues like same-sex marriages and abortions to make themselves feel the are moral... but when it comes to funding real issues and showing real tolerance.... their morality dries up quicker then Jim Baker's sperm on Mark Foley's face.
    • Murdats, on 11/03/2007, -1/+3so where is the lie?
      these 'christians' mostly voted republicans, it matters not what scum they are but they identify themself as born again christians, and apparently this is what being born again christian is, if you are not like them, then you apparently are in the minority and probably the wrong group
    • misssue, on 11/03/2007, -1/+2Actually there is something called justified war. Blessed are the peacemakers. It doesn't speak of peacemaking always being peaceful. (the argument behind that is rather lengthy) Jesus wasn't always peaceful. He didn't just ask the moneychangers to leave the temple. He threw them out. A violent act. "Peaceful Jesus" is as common a misconception as "White, long haired Jesus"
      • there, on 11/03/2007, -0/+1 Riight Christianity the religion that advocates war.

        You must have been taught a different version than me. I have become completely disgusted in religion almost singlehandedly because of moronic Republican evangelicals... but my mother still goes to church every Sunday and she considers the vast majority of Republicans anti-christian.

        Forget what they say during group hugs and grand speeches... just look at what they do in practice.

        Their values are essentially...

        - greed is good
        - war is good
        - murdering others over oil is good
        - cheating on their spouses is good
        - lying is good
        - torture is good

        I'm not sure what commandments neo-cons are following but it certainly is not the 10. I have no doubt Jesus would have called people that advocate the things they do evil.
        • misssue, on 11/03/2007, -0/+1Part of the justified war premise is that you do it as a last resort. You do it as a defense of the innocent. Of course, it can (and has) been misused but that is why Christians should be open to responsible correction.

          The Bible is misused just as often by the anti-war crowd as it is by the "war at all costs" crowd.

          The "version" as you put it has been a version based on reasoning and understanding. I don't like fundementalists who take the Bible literally (and actually in many cases, take the parts of the Bible they want to take literally.). Maybe that is the version you grew up with. It isn't what I study. The one foray I took into the fundie community, I ended up abused and almost gave up on Christianity and church altogether. I had to deal with the fact that I was blinded by hate. I believe that God has pulled back on protection as we are not doing our part in love. It is pathetic and sad but it won't change until everyone fixes what we have been living in.
          • there, on 11/03/2007, -0/+1 "Part of the justified war premise is that you do it as a last resort. You do it as a defense of the innocent."

            Please point me to the passage Jesus said that.

            You are confusing politics with faith. Faith must be based on the words of scripture..... not whatever thought or convenience jumps into your mind. If you don't follow the words... then simply put you are not following the faith. No one said it would be easy.

            And If you want to discuss "reason" then there can only be one conclusion... all religions are cults based on deception since they never provide a shred of emperical evidence to back up their voodoo claims.

            Faith or reason. You are welcome to take your pick as master. However you can't have them both because it's like cheating on your wife and pretending it didn't happen. People may still do it... but they are only deluding themselves not others.
    • jhshukla, on 11/03/2007, -0/+1"This is a perfect example where statistics can lie"
      There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies & statistics.
  • misssue, on 11/06/2007, -6/+8Wow. Let's see, I identify as an Evangelical Christian. I am extremely well educated, annoyed by narrowmindedness (which I see from all camps). I am extremely independent politically and when I hear someone speaking from their party's stance, I get suspicious. I also am an environmentalist. Thing is, I don't believe that the debate is over and it never should be. When the "debate is over" is when one faction will take over and open expression and free thinking will die. I never want to see that. And I really don't care how you feel about someone, you need to be respectful and listen especially if you want the same in return.

    This is why I do what I do to take care of the environment and encourage others to do the same (at this point I am about 70% green): God gave humans dominion over the earth. What we have been given charge over, we need to protect. I do my part as best I can to follow that Biblical principle.

    Oh, and my main annoyance with this article is that he tends to lump Christians into the same category. That is crap. Also, there are many Evangelicals who are not white. I have zero clue why he did that. Well, actually I know why....
    • elementop, on 11/05/2007, -0/+3Well said.

      Likewise, I am also an evangelical Christian, and while I have often voted Republican in the past (Sarah Palin for governor in my home state of Alaska, being a good example), I have also voted Democrat, Libertarian and Independent when I felt they were the better choice. Like misssue above, I believe that we should be good stewards of our environment, and I'm not at all pleased about the crap the Bush administration has been pulling since 9/11. The man talked a good talk in 2000, but we've been goose-stepping towards fascism ever since -- not something I want to see happen to "the land of the free and the home of the brave".

      However, I can't help but notice that many of those on this site who rail against the dogmatic Christians tend to be every bit as dogmatic themselves. Give me a break -- Christianity isn't the problem. It's narrowmindedness, which is a failing of Christians, athiests, Muslims, and...well, pretty much every human that has ever walked the earth. We -- no matter who we are -- tend to think we are right, to associate with those who think like us, and to diss everybody else. We don't like to have our world view challenged, and we tend to get violent with those who do (MLK, Gandhi, Gallileo, Socrates, Martin Luther, 9/11, etc., etc.).

      Until we -- *all* of us -- learn to look at other peoples' ideas objectively and tolerate other peoples' beliefs even if we disagree, we are doomed to continue fighting over stupid $**t until we sterilize the earth.
    • ambrosious, on 11/06/2007, -0/+1You're right, let's keep debating whether the earth is flat and at the center of the universe too. Let's do things because they're right - not because a really old book tells us to.
  • aak4, on 11/05/2007, -8/+1Presidential candidate Gov. Mike Huckabee is strongly in favor of being good stewards of the environment.
    • nthegardn, on 11/03/2007, -0/+1I Agree....Gov. Mike Huckabee is strongly in favor of being good stewards of the environment!!!

  • KazamaSmokers, on 11/05/2007, -7/+3James Dobson has about as much to do with actual faith as Marilyn Chambers has to do with virginity. Which isn't a very good analogy, because Chambers probably has some integrity.
    • adrianmonk, on 11/03/2007, -3/+1Indeed. James Dobson is more about knee-jerk conservatism and traditional values than he is about Christianity. In fact, he's probably only interested in Christianity because it's part of traditional values!
    • mikerand, on 11/03/2007, -0/+0Do you guys really know anything about James Dobson? Or is all your information about him from 3rd party sources like Digg. Spend some time at www.family.org. I don't expect he'll make you a believer, but come on - this is getting a little crazy.
  • JudaS9, on 11/05/2007, -3/+5I think its amusing that in the two thousand, or so, years of christianity that the "end times" has always been "nigh." So, to right the discrepancies of absolute truth what better way is it for christians to actually fulfill the prophecies themselves.

    boom.
    • vertinox, on 11/05/2007, -1/+1The irony is that testament itself says that you cannot predict the end and there will be no signs! And the second coming will be like "a thief in the night". I suppose we all have nothing to worry about until the born again Christians stop saying the end is near.

      Secondly, I always like to point out that the idea of a Rapture did not come about until the 1830s. Of course they had been talking about the ends times since the Roman era, but none of this getting whisked away to heaven they promote these days. Thats a completely modern idea.
      • chewbacca77, on 11/05/2007, -0/+11 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    • chewbacca77, on 11/05/2007, -0/+1It could be nigh from a certain point of view.
      2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
  • HouseFan, on 11/03/2007, -3/+4How can you support a president that goes against your religion/moral values? Are this people really following 'their book'?
    I don't know, but sometimes I feel more "Christian" than all this people together and I'm agnostic.
    • bjornski, on 11/05/2007, -6/+3Well then you're living your life by reasonable, considerate level headed ideals and the golden rules. Not banging on some book of fables to excuse your horrible behavior.

      You ARE more Christ-like than they are.
  • tim620, on 11/05/2007, -1/+5Actually, there is a trend amongst Evangelicals toward being green. There really are Environmentalist Evangelicals. I believe this is a strong about face for many Evangelicals who would have never thought this way even 10 years ago. It will take time for older Evangelicals like Dobson to get on board (if ever). But, I do believe this is a growing (and welcome) trend amongst Evangelical Christians.

    http://www.pbs.org/moyers/moyersonamerica/green/in ...

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/08/national/08warm. ...
    • Berkana, on 11/05/2007, -0/+3I'm a green evangelical. I didn't know this was a trend. It seriously feels lonely being a green Christian. As a whole, serious evangelical Christians can't accurately be characterized as green; their prominent leaders have been back-influenced by the Republican party, which has been under the thumb of polluting industries for so long. They will fixate on stupid polarizing issues and ignore this just because "liberals" are into being green.
      • tim620, on 11/03/2007, -0/+1Berkana, I'm also a green evangelical. You are not alone. Two years ago I attended a conference at Asbury Seminary (a large conservative evangelical seminary) and the topic was "Creation Healed". Green issues abounded. If you haven't seen the trend yet, you will. I felt like a closet Green Christian for years, but now feel liberated. I do agree that most evangelicals polarize on issues that are anti-liberal. I feel that you can't be politically consistent and Biblically consistent at the same time. Send me a note sometime if you want to talk more.
  • ZenFountain, on 11/05/2007, -7/+1Dobson is a flaming turd, are you surprised?
  • boner79, on 11/05/2007, -5/+4and people wonder how Bush can maintain a ~30% approval rating. Kinda easy when ~30% of the country are a bunch of mindless Bush fanatics cheering him on as he brings us ever closer to the end of days, and thus the Rapture.
  • skyfire1, on 11/03/2007, -3/+5Whenever scientific evidence contradicts the Bible, cover your ears, close your eyes, and chant "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus" until Jesus makes you feel better.
    • kelly, on 11/05/2007, -3/+3Often times the most important aspects of that "scientific evidence" is only supported by "scientific evidence" that coincidentally also requires the former scientific evidence to be true. When I've pointed multiple instances of this circular reasoning to those that don't want to believe that God created the world... it is THEY that typically close their eyes and chant "science, science, science" until science makes them feel better.
      • dellis, on 11/03/2007, -0/+1Any examples of this circular logic?
        • elementop, on 11/05/2007, -0/+2Yes -- read "Darwin's Black Box" for a good example. I molecular biologist discusses some very real problems with evolution as the origin of species that scientists don't seem to want to tackle. In a nutshell, his argument is that when Darwin proposed the theory of evolution, the cell was a black box. At that point, it looked plausible that a small change in some physical structure could cause new structures to develop in a step by step fashion until you had a new species. However, advances in molecular biology have since shown that even a simple change in a physical structure would require hundreds to thousands of molecular changes, none of which alone are beneficial to the organism -- and most of which, in fact, are at least to some degree detrimental to the organism.

          Please note that I am not opposed to science -- I am a firm believer in the scientific method. However, throughout history, scientists have alway felt they just about had everything figured out...until some upstart (Columbus, Galileo, Einstein, etc.) showed them that the world wasn't nearly as simple as they believed, and that all of our assumptions about how things work need to be checked at the door and *always* need to be reevaluated in the light of new information.

          The world isn't flat, the earth isn't the center of the universe, and maybe -- just maybe -- evolution isn't the origin of all species. But, the universe probably *did* start with a big bang (I don't find the big bang and Genesis 1:1 to be mutually exclusive) and the earth probably *is* older than 4000 years :D
          • jstone, on 11/05/2007, -1/+1We don't know everything. Science is simply the best explanation we can derive from the evidence we have. Over time, as more evidence is gathered, that explanation becomes more accurate. Who knows, maybe science will eventually discover some godlike entity. But, at the moment, the theory of evolution is the best match for the evidence in the fossil record. It's incredibly ignorant to say "science doesn't have all the answers yet, so I'll believe this thing some guys wrote a few thousand years ago, even though it doesn't fit the evidence."
  • vwvan, on 11/05/2007, -9/+11Let's see. Evangelical Christian means:
    1) Don't believe in evolution, because Jesus buried the dinosaur bones to test our faith.
    2) Drive SUV to feel safe from sinners, high oil prices mean war, which brings Jesus back sooner.
    3) Sing same simple minded songs over and over, let someone else do our thinking for us.
    4) Vote conservative to: Circle all answers that apply:
    a) blacks b) women c) gays
    A) pick our cotton B) stay at home, and C) save our children

    5) Pray for George Bush so he can send 4000+ troops to die & close to a million Iraqi's for the bargain price of six hundred billion contractor dollars. So let us hold hands and pray:

    Dear Jesus, Please help our president know what to do today. Help him to keep the war over in their neighborhood so we can get oil from them for a good price. Please kill the bad Arabs and forgive us for writing camel jock in the restroom which made them hate us after we taught them nuclear physics. Amen.
    • tim620, on 11/05/2007, -4/+12I'm an evangelical! This is how I truly believe (I'm not being sarcastic). I'll match up my point number with yours.
      1. I don't care how we got here. That isn't the point of Genesis 1. The point was who created us. I don't care if we came about via evolution or creationist thought. Personally, I lean toward evolution.
      2. I don't drive an SUV. I drive a car that gets over 30 MPG, I care about the environment and feel we need to take care of this earth. I also am opposed to the war (I believe when God said "Thou shalt not kill" that he meant it).
      3. I think about my faith. Yes, sometimes I sing along with like minded believers. However, I like to learn and study things for myself.
      4. I am a moderate. My conservative friends think I'm too liberal and my liberal friends think I'm too conservative. I vote the issues and could care less if a candidate is Republican or Democrat. I have a number of African American, Indian, Native American, Korean, Nigerian, Somalian, and Kenyan friends. I believe there is only one race, the human race. I believe in equal rights for women, most can do just as good of a job or better than I can in the work place. I don't hate gays. I have a number of homosexual friends. I may not agree with their lifestyle, but I don't hate them. I go to their homes and have dinner with them and I usually bring my children.
      5. I pray for George Bush. I also pray for all of the leaders in our nation. I pray that minds will be open to bring our troops home. I also pray for the Iraqi's and their families who have been affected by this tragedy.
    • misssue, on 11/05/2007, -1/+5Very well said Tim
      • tim620, on 11/05/2007, -0/+2Thanks. I was just stating how my life works as an Evangelical Christian. I find it unfortunate that people have a view of evangelicals that come from a few misguided leaders. Not all of us are like that.
    • HunterSeeker42, on 11/05/2007, -0/+3I wish I could dig Tim again!
      • tim620, on 11/03/2007, -0/+1You're too kind. I was just stating how my life works and how I feel Christians should live.
    • elementop, on 11/03/2007, -0/+2vwvan,

      Grow up.

      1) Yes, there are Christians who believe this. There are many, many more who don't. I am one of them. While I don't believe in evolution as the origin of species, I confess that I don't know *how* God created the heavens, the earth, or any living thing in the universe. Yes, I do believe there were dinosaurs, and I'm not entirely sure how to reconcile the archaeological record and Genesis, but I believe that's because I haven't got everything figured out yet. No news there.

      2) I don't drive an SUV. I used to drive a 2L 4-cylinder. I now drive a small pickup, but that's because I actually haul things in my pickup. I'd love to see gasoline replaced with electric or biodiesel or some other greener technology, but I don't think the technology is ready yet. When it is, I'll switch...in a heartbeat. (The Tesla Roadster is close, but not close enough)

      3) Works for you doesn't it? Would you be a Christian-bashing atheist if it wasn't "cool" or did you actually come to your beliefs after spending a lot of time thinking it through? For what it's worth, I've been on both sides of the fence. I gave up Christianity at 15, and started coming back to it at 21. In my early thirties, I had thought things through enough to really become comfortable with my beliefs. My faith isn't part of a herd mentality, and I frequently disagree with what I believe are some dogmatic opinions that many of my Christian friends have. But I also disagree with some equally dogmatic beliefs some of my atheist friends have. You are entitled to your opinions, and I don't begrudge you for not believing in God -- mine, or anyone else's -- but I absolutely detest idiots who insist they are right and that everyone who disagrees with them hasn't got two brain cells to rub together. No one has everything figured out -- including you, so get over yourself.

      4) I vote conservative (when I do) because I believe in small, decentralized government, small federal deficit, and I tend to think that the Constitution is something worth fighting to defend, and the Dems have frequently gutted our military. I *don't* think the Iraq war was a particularly good idea; our military should be for defense, not offense. Like tim620 above, I have had (and probably will have in the future) any number of friends who were of other races and sexual orientations. I don't care if you are black, white, red, yellow or green, gay or straight, I will judge you on the way you treat others. My best friend and rock climbing partner for six years was, get this, a gay Christian. I didn't agree with his lifestyle, but he was a genuinely good guy, and a lot of fun to hang out with. He was the best belayer a rock climber could ask for, and a good climber in his own right.

      5) I pray for Bush so that he won't screw up the country any further than he has already. My dad spent time in Saudi, my brother went to Afghanistan and Saudi, my brother-in-law has been to Afghanistan and Iraq, and my nephew is in Iraq right now. I pray for their safe return. I pray for peace in those countries, and any other nation that is torn apart by conflict. I pray that those who pushed this war for their financial gain will have an epiphany before they have to answer to God for their crimes, and I pray that fanatics on all sides will learn to live with people who disagree with them.
  • coemgen, on 11/03/2007, -3/+5As a Christian, this is disturbing and it angers me. Luckily, there's a movement of Christians doing the opposite. Groups like Restoring Eden, Sojourners, Relevant and other progressive Christian organizations are each shedding light on the issue of global warming in their own way. They know God commands us to take care of the Earth in the Bible. It's in there! Right Wing christians like to read the Bible to fit their agenda - however, many Christians, including myself, try to read it for all its worth. In the process, I fully believe the Right, or Wrong, is crumbling . . .
    • skyfire1, on 11/03/2007, -8/+2Then what are you waiting for? You have adulterers, gays, and disobedient kids to stone!
      • saqer, on 11/03/2007, -3/+5rude, insensitive, elementary and ignorant to say the least...all we have is a bunch of atheist diggers who think they know it all
        • skyfire1, on 11/03/2007, -3/+1I'm just stating God's agenda. Jesus said he came not to abolish the prophecy but to fulfill it.
        • misssue, on 11/03/2007, -1/+3He did not come to abolish the LAW but to fulfill it. Jesus didn't speak of prophecy as we speak of it.
  • saqer, on 11/05/2007, -4/+8those who don't believe in a green earth don't respect God
  • srslyfkd, on 11/05/2007, -5/+7You guys can rationalize it all you want, but the clear-cut fact is that without religion there would be one less major dividing line enticing people to fight. It's just that simple. In a world without Allah we wouldn't have Islamic terrorists; in a world without God* we wouldn't have Catholic priests molesting children, or Southern Baptists picketing funerals, or people blowing up abortion centers, or people being killed for being gay... The list literally goes on forever.

    For every single good thing that any given religion might preach (honor your parents - if they did right by you - is one I happen to cherish), there are dozens of examples of things that same religion is telling you that you can't do for any number of reasons. I know this is fairly off-topic, but I couldn't not say anything after seeing so many comments to the effect of "we're/they're not all bad." That's a ***** argument. That's like saying "cigarettes aren't all that bad.. they curb your appetite, and there's some evidence they can hold off Parkinson's."

    Yes, I just compared religions to cigarettes. Cigarettes cause cancer, and religions are a cancer on this world. Let's not forget that most of these people (let's say the 78% of that 24%) hold Ronald Reagan in epic esteem. Ronald Reagan, the same person who felt that 20% of the world's hydrocarbons being anthropogenic wasn't a big deal. The same person who claimed that "trees cause more pollution than automobiles do." (For those unaware, this is true if you construe the word "pollution" to mean hydrocarbon emissions and nothing but.)

    The problem with hydrocarbons is not that they exist. The problem is that we're causing more of them to be emitted at a higher rate than ever before. It's not that the world hasn't been this hot before. It's that we are the ones causing it this time. And when you boil it down, most of the people resisting global warming on principle are doing so because it's what they've been led to believe by other people with similar backgrounds.

    Bottom-line, folks: Evangelicals tend not to care about the environment because they don't think they'll be around long enough for the earth to go to *****. Either Jesus will come and take them away before the rest of us naughty bastards are fried, or they'll die and be in Heaven, in which case they'll have front-row seats.



    * "God" in this instance should be taken to mean any of the Christian varieties. I wasn't sure whether or not to capitalize it, but I figure it's a name of a fictional character and you're supposed to capitalize names. You can go ahead and hit the thumbs-down button now.
    • misssue, on 11/05/2007, -1/+5Clear Cut fact? That's laughable.

      In a world without Allah we wouldn't have Islamic terrorists; in a world without God* we wouldn't have Catholic priests molesting children, or Southern Baptists picketing funerals, or people blowing up abortion centers, or people being killed for being gay... The list literally goes on forever.

      You are talking about a very small faction of Christianity and Islam. There are always people who do bad things....and their are even atheists who do bad things. It is part of human nature. Getting rid of religion would not do anything.

      • nick111, on 11/03/2007, -0/+0Well we can't get rid of it - but is should be discredited as a rationale for any kind of political policy.

        "Faith" allows you to ignore feedback... in fact the more negative feedback you get, the more faith you have, the more virtuous you're supposedly being.

        Right now, Christian priests are preaching that condom use is a sin against God - in the face of an AIDs epidemic and in locations where this is the only information about modern birth-control that people can get.

        This is genocidal stupidity.

        Faith gives otherwise intelligent people what they need to fly airoplanes into buildings. Faith makes it ok for people to clitoradectamise their daughters. It makes it ok to kill homosexuals, for rape-victims to be as guilty as rapists, for abortion to be banned even though banning it increases the amount of suffering and death because people will have abortions regardless of the legality.

        The Love of Money is not the root of all evil - blind adherance to dogma is.
        • misssue, on 11/03/2007, -0/+1No, we are expected to accept correction. It is done in love but it is still done. Once again we are talking about a small faction of extremists. My church and all the churches I have attended support birth control use until children are decided on and the couple is ready. The Catholic couples I know use birth control. Same goes for people flying planes into buildings...a small faction that has nothing to do with Islamic faith. It is never ok to murder anyone. I don't care what they believe or who they are. Most of the Christians I know support gay rights and most support marriage equality. I would like a citation on the illegality of abortion causing more suffering. I see it differently. It alleviates suffering. Women are told to have abortions because "they can't handle it". They can handle it with the right tools. Maybe we should take some of the funding that goes to abortions and put it into proper health care and support systems so that women can keep the babies in confidence. Women deserve better. Rape victims being as guilty as the rapist. This one struck a chord with me. I was stalked and I was blamed for it. I was told to be nice to him and maybe he would stop. This isn't a religion or faith issue, it is a societal issue. Society has gotten into the disgusting habit of blaming the victim. You want to know who bought me my first thing of mace? My pastor's wife.
        • Atxguitarist, on 11/03/2007, -0/+0The government only funds abortions when the mother's life is at risk, or in rape/incest cases.
          • misssue, on 11/03/2007, -0/+1I am talking about all funding, government and non government sources.
  • coemgen, on 11/03/2007, -1/+2Well, from at least the Christian perspective, you could argue those people aren't following the Bible/the example of Christ anyway, so, really, they're like everyone else: there's both good and bad people. None of those things you mentioned were done by Christ. And, it's important to remember that those who do follow Christ have done a lot of great things with their lives and helped a lot of people. Who responded to Katrina? Who's leading the charge against AIDS in Africa? I see what you're saying, I just think you should be careful.
    • nick111, on 11/03/2007, -0/+0I wouldn't brag about Christians leading the charge against AIDs in Africa until the Pope stops his church's utterly insane ban on contraception... and get away from this "abstinence" ***** altogether.

      The church is indirectly responsible for millions of HIV-related deaths.
  • heystoopid, on 11/05/2007, -3/+3brainwashing at it's finest !
  • StopAndThink, on 11/05/2007, -4/+0SEN. HILLARY'S STRANGE LOVE: How she Learned TO LOVE THE BOMB
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAyrvbD3NTE

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tLn2T2vL-E

    Hillary Clinton, a wishy-washy Pseudo-Republican who masquerades around Washington as a Democrat,learns to Stop worrying about Bill and starts LOVING the BOMB. Loving the Bomb for a war with IRAN.

    "ALL OPTIONS ARE LEFT ON THE TABLE WITH RESPECT TO IRAN"= Code for NUCLEAR WEAPONS STRIKE

    Stop the bomb!- www.gravel2008.us
  • coemgen, on 11/03/2007, -2/+4I think the point to make is that the "christians" who don't support taking care of the Earth are doing so for political reasons. Same with denying homosexuals rights and supporting the death penalty and guns. It's all political. There's nothing Biblical about it. At it's very core it's wrong because even Christ, whom they profess to be God's son, wasn't political. He was a rebel, but he wasn't political. There's a danger in saying God's a Republican, or even a Democrat.
  • shadus, on 11/05/2007, -1/+5The why is easy.. because why do you need to protect something when rapture is right around the corner!
    • HunterSeeker42, on 11/04/2007, -1/+0Did you come up with that by yourself, or were you working on that all thread?
  • meekerunger, on 11/03/2007, -1/+1126 million x 24% x 78% = 23.6 million people. Approximately 18 % of the population that voted, to put things in perspective for either side.
  • HanSolo69, on 11/05/2007, -4/+5You're kind of missing the point. they believe that the quicker they destroy the planet the sooner Jebus will return.
    • coemgen, on 11/03/2007, -1/+1Only the warped "christians" believe this. The rest of us know it's not Biblical. : )
      • misssue, on 11/03/2007, -0/+1You mean the ones we pray don't show up to the conferences? (sorry, couldn't resist)
  • Edge00, on 11/05/2007, -1/+4No, I think the writer doesn't understand the evangelical position. Its not that evangelicals don't want to take care of the environment, its just that in the list of things that are important to them its not as high a priority as say humanitarian ventures or moral/social issues. They place alot higher value on people than they do on even the environment.
    • misssue, on 11/03/2007, -0/+1Excellent point. I don't agree with it 100% but it is very well stated.
    • rustintable, on 11/03/2007, -0/+0The environment is a moral/ethical/Social issue thats why people care about it.
  • laserblazer, on 11/03/2007, -1/+2It's because these 'churches' have corporate parents that are heavily invested in energy.
  • addicted68098, on 11/03/2007, -0/+2People need to understand that church's are as corrupt as the Bush administration, mostly because they are the Bush administration. The leaders have sold their soul to special interest while masking it with unimportant social issues. And for whatever reason evangelical powerhouses have transformed a place for hope, and enlightenment to a political machine that feeds off the ignorant. I believe in a God, I believe in Jesus, but I also believe that humans have the ability to decided whats right, and all religions teach one thing tolerance, but somehow people start quoting lines of hatred and forget the big pictures. Like Barrack Obama says Faiths Been Hijacked. But of course half of all deeply religious people seem to like appealing to authority, probably explaning Bush's high approval ratings.
    • rustintable, on 11/03/2007, -0/+0If religious people really cared about their religion there would be more of them standing up and saying hey our leaders are corrupt. Kick them out. Clean up your religion. Have better stewardship of your own community. I am not a Christan but I hang out with lots of them. I think there great. Just like anyone else but the community it seems to me has gotten lazy. They know that some of their leaders are fuct up. Time to get busy. Maybe there needs to me born again born agains...

      I might add in doing so please leave the atheist alone. Your just fine the way you are and so are we.
  • ESTEBEVERDE, on 11/03/2007, -0/+1"If God wanted us to take care of the Earth he would have given us dominion over it."




    Ummmm....... exactly.
  • andersan, on 11/05/2007, -1/+1The problem with these people is they think God will protect them from everything, including terrorists, godzilla, Harry Potter, and global warming. You can't reason with them. It would be like me walking up to some guy in Saudi Arabia and asking him to start treating women like equals. He just won't do it.
  • DugginOut, on 11/05/2007, -4/+0The article is stupid, and if you believe global warming (i.e.-global cooling in the 70s), then you're. . .well, I'll just say VERY ignorant.
    • rustintable, on 11/03/2007, -0/+0I keep responding to you guys and I will never stop. Who is paying you?

      I have known about global warming my whole life.
  • eviscero, on 11/05/2007, -2/+0...look hippies...your whole argument on climate change is flat out stupid. No amount of pandering from Al Gore, "credits," or socialism will prevent the earth from varying its average temp. You are wasting your time on something that will never be determined to have an absolute certainty. Your scientists are riding the band wagon of junk science and following the grant money. The "movement" is falling apart - have a looking around for real science.

    Climate Change Denier is such an amusing buzz-phrase.

    No one claims that climate doesn't change. Stick your head outside, note the weather conditions. 24 hours later, do the same thing. Look, the climate changed! This has been occurring since earth obtained an atmosphere and will continue to occur on all scales with or without us...and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

    Using a religious spin on this is just ignorant and childish. I'll have to say that if you don't like it - move to Iran or North Korea - I hear they tolerate your brand of "free speech."

    Find something to do....really....plant a tree...wait..that causes Global Warming...or is it Global Cooling?

    Never mind, I'm sure all we have to do is give Al Gore 12 Trillion bucks and he'll save us all.

    Please, don't let me stop the naivety.
    • starmanjones, on 11/03/2007, -0/+1>>...look hippies...your whole argument on climate change is flat out
      >>stupid.

      stupid. you stupidly criticized an argument that you stupidly didn't identify.

      >>No amount of pandering from Al Gore, "credits," or socialism
      >>will prevent the earth from varying its average temp.

      pandering. pandering. all gore agrees you with you. his whole case is based on the fact the climate varies. as far as i know... well, i've never heard of an al gore credit. maybe this is stupid pandering on your part. he doesn't make any case for any political system. ah, ya... more stupid political pandering from a right wing christian ideologue who is feeling like the world is running out of patience with you and your simple minded answers to all questions.

      congratulations al on your nobel. i know you don't want to... but i personally would like to see you run again. we're in trouble. someone with common sense needs to go to work on these religious cults in the middle east and in america. they are hell bent on destroying us all. maybe you could talk them into moving out of america and to the middle east with the other violence ridden theologies. maybe institute a religion tax to pay for the social problems they are causing us. i think that would be the fastest way to make their numbers dwindle.

      >>You are wasting
      >>your time on something that will never be determined to have an
      >>absolute certainty.

      i don't find my time wasted. i think you should quit wasting your time making mindless religious base arguments against the survival of humans.

      >>Your scientists are riding the band wagon of junk
      >>science and following the grant money. The "movement" is falling apart
      >>- have a looking around for real science.

      so tell me how many times have "your" scientists seen the earths climate changed in the last 6000 years?

      >>Climate Change Denier is such an amusing buzz-phrase.

      more stupid pandering?

      >>No one claims that climate doesn't change. Stick your head outside,
      >>note the weather conditions. 24 hours later, do the same thing. Look,
      >>the climate changed! This has been occurring since earth obtained an
      >>atmosphere and will continue to occur on all scales with or without
      >>us...and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

      the sad truth is that you might be right. if al had been taken seriously 20 years ago and we'd made changes we might have been able to head it off. but right now... the ice caps are melting. they are diluting the salt water at the top of the gulf stream and that is going to make it cold... after it warms up.

      it was stupid assertions like the ones you are making here that kept humans from doing something before we saw it happening.

      i can't imagine who could make the arguments you are making. i sum up your arguement with

      "who cares!"

      the science al gore is presenting is factual. he presents measurements. he compares those measurements to those times in the past when the weather went flakey. so can it dumb ***** if you don't want to know what you are talking about and you can't muster a single argument that isn't...

      "WHO CARES!"
      you are the definition of pandering and junk science.

      >>Using a religious spin on this is just ignorant and childish. I'll
      >>have to say that if you don't like it - move to Iran or North Korea -
      >>I hear they tolerate your brand of "free speech."

      nobody is saying you can't talk. its you that don't want normal people to talk. your guy in the white house is all about eliminating free speech.

      >>Find something to do....really....plant a tree...wait..that causes
      >>Global Warming...or is it Global Cooling?

      likely both. is that meant to reinforce some argument you aren't making...

      >>Never mind, I'm sure all we have to do is give Al Gore 12 Trillion
      >>bucks and he'll save us all.

      rather give al 12 trillion bucks to fix the climate and put permanent colonies on the moon and mars. but you all like the killing in gods name. you know... if we'd spent a fraction of what we've spent killing religious people like your self... if we'd set up a new bagdad over by jordan and started chucking food and economic help in the middle east... we could be heroes right now instead of the face of fascism in the world.

      >Please, don't let me stop the naivety.

      we're not naive. we realize that christians rigged the election so bush could start wwIII and bring on the rapture. the part of that is the weather related disasters... thats all this is... just making the rapture happen. to all of us. it is a religious problem. not spin. the polls make that clear.
    • misssue, on 11/03/2007, -0/+1Trolllers abound. Nothing to see here. Moving on.
  • vidorian, on 11/03/2007, -0/+1I believe in God and do my best each day to abide by the 10 commandments. I've voted republican since i was 18. I don't personally believe global warming is man made. I don't think we are that powerful. BUT i also believe that the earth was created by God and we as humans have a responsibility to protect it.

    The millions of tons of chemicals that industries release in to the atmosphere, the chemicals in our oceans that make the mercury levels so high we can only eat so much fish a week. Must stop.

    We all need to conserve and do everything we can to protect the earth for future generations. I can't see how anyone who claims to be "Christian" could think or do otherwise.

    If global warming is man made or isn't makes no difference. We should not have free reign to destroy the earth that we and future generations will dwell on.
  • housebolt, on 11/05/2007, -3/+1Digg up if you're tired of stupid religion pieces making it to the front page.
  • mexretroshore, on 11/05/2007, -2/+1Evangelicals are the new Nazis.
  • bogrollben, on 11/05/2007, -0/+2The logic in this article is incorrect.
    It assumes that anyone voting republican hates the environment. True, the republican party doesn't safeguard the environment as much as democrats. But there are hundreds of different reasons why an individual might vote republican (or democrat for that matter). In other words, there are so many differences between the 2 parties, you can't simply say every republican is anti-environmentalist. It's like saying all democrats want to raise taxes. It's simply not true.
    Many christians such as myself have very strong anti-abortion views that tend to sway us into the republican camp, even though we'd love to see them also handle the environment better, quit the war, intercede in darfur, etc, etc.
    • rustintable, on 11/03/2007, -0/+0This is how the current political system in the USA controls its citizens. It could easily be improved upon say by voting on issues instead of leaders. And allowing people to defer their vote to an expert or group of experts giving weight to expert opinions but still keeping the power in the hands of the populous. Why are we still using such a simplistic and stupid system invented by Neanderthals who had slaves. Governments should also be very small and local so different kinds of people can be happy with their own goverment.
  • Darkside2984, on 11/03/2007, -0/+1The Earth has gone up .1 degrees since 1979 but we don't have data before then!!!! Wait it's global cooling!!! It's global warming!!! American scientists rely on federally funded grants. It's unfortunate that those in the scientific community who speak out against global warming and it's alarmist rhetoric are silenced by those who are dependent on the government to continue to fund their 'research' on global climate change. Go look up global cooling if you don't believe me. It was only 30 years ago that the last Al Gore tree hugger came up with that bunk theory.
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