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46 Comments
- dgblackout, on 10/11/2007, -7/+81how about this one, don't build cities below sea level.
- lieutenantmudd, on 10/11/2007, -4/+30How about this lesson,
politicians making funding decisions about engineering projects + lack of funding = poor engineering projects - fight4yourright, on 10/11/2007, -2/+19LESSON # 1:
Don't live in a city built below sea level.
LESSON #2
Don't live in a city built below sea level that has a good chance of getting hit by a hurricane once a year.
LESSON #3
Don't live in a city built below sea level that has a good chance of getting hit by a hurricane once a year while living on welfare.
LESSON #4
Blame natural disasters on the government. - SillyRabbits, on 10/11/2007, -1/+15Lesson #2
If you live in a city that's below sea level you should probably pay attention to weather reports. When they show a big ass major hurricane is headed your way you should probably move your family inland until it passes.... - mwolfzorn, on 10/11/2007, -1/+14Agreed, engineers knew that the levees wouldn't hold, but no one wanted to fund the replacement of the levees since it was going to cost quite a bit...
Engineers cannot fix things if they aren't funded. - swavalier711, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9engineers don't need any lessons. If the levee inspection crew doesn't say *****, does the engineer need to somehow magically know that they aren't suitable?
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8How about this one: dredging and levees have caused soil from the Mississippi, that once sustained the wetlands around New Orleans, to just flow out into the Gulf. Thousands of acres of wetlands equal to the size of Delaware are gone. These wetlands would help cushion the blow of a major hurricane and absorb a storm surge.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8Now wait a second here. I come from the great NO, and New Orleans was not "built" bellow sea level. New Orleans was settled on the banks of the Mississippi, a natural highground, but like many cities during the industrial revolution, were forced to expand to accommodate workers. After building levees and stopping the natural silt buildup of the land, the land slowly settled to the point that it is at today. However, the big buildings in New Orleans were not damaged. Why? Because they were built in the area that was a part of the natural highground.
New Orleans' problem was not being bellow sea level, it was in a poor levee system that we've been trying to get them to rebuild for years. Nobody listened to us. There are cities all over the world prone to natural disasters.. from earthquakes, to tornadoes, to floods and more. The world is a deadly place... and there is no room for incompetent politicians controlling engineers.
I'm glad this hasn't turned into an insult of the poor people who lived there, though, and had no economic means to get out of the city, nor any way to choose the life that they were born into. I see that far too much, on digg and elsewhere. - SillyRabbits, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5It much more fair to blame this on the local government. They were the ones that didn't bother to fix the infrastructure problems and they were the ones driving past it and living with it everyday. Not only did they not spend city/state money on it, they took federal money meant for the problem and diverted it to other programs. If you want the federal government to micro-manage every little city in the US, what's the point of having a local government?
- swavalier711, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6yeah, the money... ugh
I was told by professional engineers that convincing the higher-ups to cough up dough for projects is a nightmare. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=heck+of+a+job
- moogle516, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Lock Up the Heineken??
- Crass22, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5Uhhhhh of course they knew it wouldnt hold. The Levees were designed for a category 4 storm or lower. Katrina was a category 5. This type of disaster is nothing new and the forces involved are well known. The lessons learned here arent engineering, but more political and finacial.
- wilf_brim, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4All of these pictures are from Mississippi (where most of the storm damage hit) not Louisiana. The US-90 bridge suffered the same fate as the I-10 bridge in Pensacola the previous year during Ivan. Both bridges were built the same way, and when the storm surge (20 ft) came, the 20 foot waves lifted the road beds off the concrete pilings and tossed them aside or into the pilings.
http://timesunion.com/photogalleries/pics_ivan/5.asp
The new I-10 bridge will (half opened) will be 20 feet higher, and built to withstand the next storm.
http://www.escambiabaybridge.com/ - afbase, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3@ dgblackout
"how about this one, don't build cities below sea level."
Don't tell that to the Dutch. They've built much of the country below sea level!!! - spock627corfu, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3 Sure, the Mayor was not blameless, but Blanco asked for help promptly, and there were no drivers for said buses. Further, the Corps of Engineers -- who are responsible for developing the levee system -- asked for money for years and were turned down repeatedly. Put another way, if New Orleans wanted to improve the levees, they would have been forbidden to, since the design and initial deployment of the levee system is a federal responsibility.
Finally, NO is not just Mardi Gras, but the largest port in the US and the fifth-largest in the world (http://www.stratfor.com/news/archive/050903-geopolitics_katrina.php). If New Orleans was shut down as a port, our economy would follow in short order. - mr1337, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3@dgblackout
Katrina isn't all about New Orleans. These pictures were taken far east of New Orleans, in the Mississippi Gulf Coast. That's where the stronger east side of the storm hit. That's where I live. I lost my apartment in Long Beach.
These pictures really hit home for me. (No pun intended.) It's one thing to see these images for the first time on the internet, or some footage of the coast on CNN or Fox News. It's another thing to drive around in a wasteland every day.
All MS gulf coast residents have one thing in common. The most asked question among us would have to be, "How did you do in the storm?" Some stories would bring tears to your eyes. I've heard a lot of stories, and told my own many times.
The last one pretty much sums up everyone's attitude. We will rebuild. - fight4yourright, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3LESSON #7
Learn how to hijack and drive a yellow school bus when living in a city below sea level that is hit by hurricanes once a year. - endustry, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3I don't get it...according the the Nation of Islam, the levees were blown up by whitey. Shouldn't this be a series of photos of sinister-looking mad scientist types with little Hitler mustaches then?
- goatspanka, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3I'll be damned. Someone who understands that hurricanes don't only affect New Orleans!
- fight4yourright, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2LESSON #6
Don't live in a city built below sea level that has a good chance of getting hit by a hurricane once a year while living on welfare and that has an inept Mayor and equally inept State Governess. - masterofjoe, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2Lesson #1:
When there's a hurricane and if you can afford it, you should probably run. Otherwise, grab a door, and polish up on your sea shanties. - viviwanu, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1The key is to COOPERATE with mother nature as opposed to CONQUER it!
- LethalAmbition, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Lesson #3
Just because your city has never been hit by a hurricane, do not assume that it won't be hit this time either. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2don't live in cities below sea level if you are poor.
- dview, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Make sure your levees and dams are able to sustain a hurricane. If not, reinforce them or look for a viable solution.
We can learn a lot from the Dutch; nearly 2000 were killed in 1953 when a large part of the country was flooded due to a heavy storm. They decided to build the Deltaworks to protect their country: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Works
Now have we ever thought about such a solution to prevent hurricanes from destroying lives and cities by flooding them? - doctorj2u, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1The Army Corps of Engineers ADMITTED the failure of the levees was their fault. Their design was faulty. They didn't take into account the soft soils of the delta. Don't let the facts get in your way though. It is a lot easier to blame those "stupid" people that live in the area they were born in.
- LordSalisbury, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1"NEW ORLEANS KNEW OF THEIR PROBLEMS FOR 20 YEARS!":
We did know, but it had been decided that the federal Army Corps of Engineers was going to be the one to build the protective barrier between millions of people and huge volumes of water. What I wish had been done, and I wish they would do now is for the Army Corps. to stop building one of OUR most important structures for protecting OUR lives and OUR property. The Army Corps has skilled engineers who's knowledge should be utilized if needed, but they should not be the ones in charge of protecting us. We will protect ourselves because if we don't we'll drown or loose everything we own. That is not the kind of responsibility that I ever want to entrust to anyone who does not have invested interests in the quality of the defense.
"BUSES"
I assume you're referring to the aerial shot of the school buses parked in a parking lot somewhere. There were also hundreds of thousands of cars in the city and more than likely a few 18 wheelers with large freight beds that could have held a lot of people. No one used these things though because there was already a plan for getting buses into the city to pick people up in the event that it flooded. The problem, though, was that FEMA decided not to let those buses go in and held them back for several days, along with tons of water and other useful supplies and I have yet to find a coherent explanation of how the hell they justify telling people weather or not they are allowed to help people that are clearly in need. If in the future a disaster befalls another city and you want to help the people stuck there, but FEMA tells you "no", I highly recommend telling FEMA to ***** the hell off. - grumpyrain, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1> how about this one, don't build cities below sea level.
Well that would be better of course, but just being above sea level doesn't make you immune to storm surges. Just look at Banda Aceh, Sri Lanka, India, Thailand, Maldives. Pretty much all of them were above sea level. (I would also argue that you would want to be doing something about global warming if you want sea level to remain where it usually is) - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1rebuild -- reward stupidity!!!
/ sarcasm - LordSalisbury, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0The concrete slowly turned into wood over about 100 years and by the time it was clear what things were made of, those with the authority to change things (not the people of the city) got money to build levees, used plenty of it for their own purposes, and handed over enough to the job over with, after about 50 years.
- LordSalisbury, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0Community Lesson: Don't let someone who does not live in your community try to protect it.
- LordSalisbury, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0who are you saying that to?
the federal government sees too much money in N.O. to care what you think, and the people who live there don't have the authority to deal with the nature as they would prefer. - Error601, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0Engineering Lesson: Don't ignore your city's problem for 100+ years.
Politics Lesson: When it blows up in your face, blame the feds. - doctorj2u, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0So it is the city's fault when poorly designed FEDERAL levees and flood walls fail. In case you don't understand, local agencies have been told they will be ARRESTED if they try and fix the levees themselves.
- doctorj2u, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0Crass22,
Katrina had decreased to a cat 4-3 by the time it hit the coast. It jogged east after hitting Plaquemines Parish and hit the MS Gulf Coast full force. New Orleans was on the weak west side of the hurricane. The winds by the time it made it to Lake Pontchartrain were cat 2, a force the levees were designed to hold up under. Yet they failed, causing unbelievable destruction and heartbreak. Independent sources and the COE themselves have proven that the flood (what we call the federal flood) was they result of poorly designed levees. And yes, the locals roundly blame the federal government. We have been lied to by the Corps for years and we trusted them. NEVER AGAIN! - Maceart, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0Build houses using concrete, not wood. Ever heard of the story of the three little pigs?
- mwolfzorn, on 10/11/2007, -5/+4@dgblackout
You're right! The French totally screwed us with the Louisiana Purchase! They must have built New Orleans below sea level to screw us over!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_New_Orleans - doctorj2u, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0I am a native New Orleanian. My mother lives on the Ms Gulf Coast. I am ASHAMED of this country. I am ASHAMED of many of the posts on this board. Before Katrina, I never thought America would turn their backs on their own. Now I know I was wrong. When did this country become so selfish and spineless. I am 53 years old and I see heroism everyday, yet my fellow Americans feel nothing of deserting us when we need their help the most. I can take the destruction. I can take hard work. I will never "get" the reaction of my own country to our suffering.
- USMguy77, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0All of you folks who are going off on New Orleans DO know that these pictures are not of New Orleans, right? They're of the Mississippi Gulf Coast, which is completely above sea level once you're off the beach and has no need for levees. You know that, right?
- f4nt0m4s, on 10/11/2007, -3/+1Hurricane Katrina Death Toll: 1836
Hurricane Katrina Damage Toll: $84 billion
Having a government that knew about the poorly designed levees, reacted poorly, and is going to spend a trillion dollars to fund a "war" on terror: priceless.
Lesson #1: WTF U.S. Government - migtex1234, on 10/11/2007, -3/+1NEW ORLEANS KNEW OF THEIR PROBLEM FOR 20 YEARS! LOOK AT THAT LIMITED MAYOR AND GOVERNOR WHO DID NOT USE ANY BUSES TO GET PEOPLE OUT OF TOWN. INSTEAD, THEY LET THE BUSES GO DOWN TOO.
NEW ORLEANS DID NOT WANT TO SPEND ANY TIME OR MONEY... WAIT FOR TAXPAYERS TO PAY THE COST AND BLAME EVERYONE ELSE FOR THEIR MISCONDUCT AND LYING. - drafhk, on 10/11/2007, -5/+3How about this? Don't build a city below sea-level when you live on the coast?
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -6/+1Lots of cities work just fine below sea-level at the coast all over the world---but they all have one thing in common.
Their levies and dams weren't built by trained wombats, overseen by blind toads with a federal budget. - danarama, on 10/11/2007, -6/+1They should be sure to smack the president upside the head next time too.
- Rukaribe, on 10/11/2007, -18/+2"how about this one, don't build cities below sea level."
-dgblackout
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