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33 Comments
- novenator, on 07/14/2009, -0/+23This seems like petty squabbling to me. The nations electric grid IS antiquated, I've worked with electricians before that say it's a 3rd World system in fact. Major upgrades are needed along with supporting infrastructure. The Eastern Seaboard blackout and California brownouts/rolling blackouts are ample evidence of this.
The plains states are perfect places for large windfarms (see wind map below), except for the fact that so few people live there. Thus, transmission lines need to go up to bring this electricity to the urban centers. The same goes for huge solar fields in the SouthWest and Great Basin.
That said, limited development of wind energy off the coast of the NorthEast and in various valleys where wind is steady and ample should be developed, as the farther the electricity travels, the less efficient it is; that is more is lost. A compromise position is both logical and efficient.
http://rredc.nrel.gov/wind/pubs/atlas/maps/chap2/2 ...
http://www.windpoweringamerica.gov/wind_maps.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power - pathouston22, on 07/14/2009, -0/+8Major wind projects in Texas are being called off because the ***** in government don't want to spend the money to install transmission lines from west to East/Central Texas. And we have our own grid, no need to hassle with other states.
- TJ11240, on 07/14/2009, -0/+6I would like to see a smart grid overhaul similar to what we did with interstate highways. Lets invest in domestic projects for a change.
- Buelldozer, on 07/14/2009, -0/+5If you want progress you're going to have to hammer the enviro-nazi groups flat first. Here in Wyoming various enviro groups were publicly for Wind and Solar...until companies actually started BUILDING the things.
Now it's a never ending stream of lawsuits and threats of lawsuits against the necessary transmission lines and against the use of public land to build the projects. They claim the windmills are ugly and dangerous and interfere with sight lines, they claim that solar takes too much space and too much water for cooling.
In short they're pulling up every half assed ***** excuse that I've EVER heard "Big Oil" use...and these are the ENVIRONMENTAL groups doing it! WTF?!?!?
NIMBY groups are also forming trying to stop the development of wind and solar farms. The whole thing is re-damned-diculous! This is WYOMING you morons, we have plenty of damn space for this stuff and we have the wind and altitude to make both solar and wind power generation work very well. - Buelldozer, on 07/14/2009, -1/+6Where are these comments on religion coming from? I don't see any mention of religion in the article.
- serif69, on 07/14/2009, -0/+4Dear NIMBYs,
STFU and deal with it.
Love,
Everyone else - ZenMojo, on 07/14/2009, -0/+3Imagine if we actually put money into infrastructure....
- drmangrum, on 07/14/2009, -0/+3Building wind and solar plants in the Midwest just doesn't make sense at all. For one, it's known as "Tornado Alley" for a reason. Secondly, it's the breadbasket of the US. How much farmland are we going to eat up with new power plants and high-tension power lines?
- inactive, on 07/14/2009, -0/+3amazing what regions can't do ...
*fixed - adevilsadvocate, on 07/14/2009, -0/+2I would think that having the wind turbines near the coast lines close to a salty ocean would increase the chance for rust. Either way if it makes more power in the middle of the U.S. in some open field vs either coast put it in a field.
- SmokenJoe, on 07/14/2009, -0/+2 This is sad no reason not to have a modern infrastructure it only makes things more expensive and drives off business and the jobs that go with it. Sometimes you need to look at the big picture- unless you are in congress. Competition is good protecting local mnonopolys is bad for everyone.
- Shwaavay, on 07/14/2009, -1/+3This is a 3rd world system...
http://thisisjuststupid.com/wordpress/wp-content/u ... - Taiyoryu, on 07/14/2009, -0/+2NIMBY is everywhere :-P Though the gist of the article seems to be that the East Coast wants it in their backyard for the economic boost, despite the fact that it's not the most ideal location for installing vast swaths of solar and wind farms.
- KahRahTay, on 07/14/2009, -0/+2if we do that, then the terrorists win
/s - JessterKing, on 07/15/2009, -0/+2Positive imput: one region gets the lines the other gets to make the ***** done and done.
- rocketman42, on 07/14/2009, -0/+2So for the east coast, they don't want new power plants in their backyard, or anyone else's backyard.
- anillop, on 07/14/2009, -0/+2Yeah everything centrally planned is terrible, I mean just look at the Interstate Highway System and how much of a mess that was.
/s - JessterKing, on 07/15/2009, -0/+2You know if we started shooting politicians for lying, wasting time and our money, and for arguing over stupid *****, all the ***** they were supposed to get done would be over faster than those direct connect cell phone commercials. I wonder how many it would take for them to learn . . . . . .??
- ZenMojo, on 07/14/2009, -0/+1Actually, it's PIMBY.
Please, In My BackYard. - HackOfAllTrades, on 07/15/2009, -0/+1I'd like to point out this comment as a poster-child of bad reasoning:
"Building wind and solar plants in the Midwest just doesn't make sense at all. For one, it's known as "Tornado Alley" for a reason. Secondly, it's the breadbasket of the US. How much farmland are we going to eat up with new power plants and high-tension power lines?"
Sorry, drmangrum. This is not a personal attack. Rather, I want everyone to realize that these kind of simplistic arguments cannot possibly lead to valid answers. Engineering takes numbers. The 'tornado alley' argument, if valid would forbid building anything at all in the midwest that couldn't withstand a direct hit by a twister. The second just demonstrates somebody has never seen a corn field under high tension wires.
And almost everybody posting here will get a shock if they ever look up the energy losses of long-distance transmission lines. - askantik, on 07/14/2009, -0/+1Being an idiot? Buried.
- smitas, on 07/14/2009, -6/+7This religion problem comes on every debate
- Mark1981, on 07/14/2009, -0/+1Good point, however I am interested does the US have what is termed in the EU "food mountain" and "wine lakes" if so might it not be best to use this line for energy instead of farmland, however that assumption is based on whether more profit can be obtained that way or exporting food outside the USA.
- Mark1981, on 07/14/2009, -2/+2People on Digg are attacking religion, because they are hoping to get dugg, (it probably because it gives them an erection).
Any sane person that actually read the article knows it has nothing to do with religion but regions, unless they are illiterate.
Its to do with politics wanting jobs to be created in their area, rather than somewhere else even it is more optimal to do so. - EnergyLottery, on 07/16/2009, -0/+0
Here's what I'm trying to attempt for my small county I live in. Similar to Berkshires or Chamber Bucks but now "ENERGY BUCKS". I'm not in this for any monies or rewards.
To the Citizens of Nevada County,
I continue to hear thru our local papers about creating jobs, keeping our monies here in Nevada County, and stimulating our local economy along with a host of other social/economic issues.
With the state government in a financial mess, along with the nation, we (the people of Nevada County) need to look “out of the box” and come up with some creative solutions.
Small towns in America are “going out of business”. Why? Money stopped flowing. Money needs to flow in order to stimulate local economic commerce. People need a good reason to spend.
In times like these, local governments needs to be creative to stimulate our local economy. Relying on the Mine reopening for a few jobs or Tourism to come to the rescue for our local economy, we need other avenues of revenue for job growth within our County. (Can you remember when was the last time you left your windows open and the car unlocked?—Tourism?).
One example, San Francisco, Oakland and San Jose have partnered (1-19-09) to become the leading cities for going green in regards to vehicles. Hydrogen, Hybrids, biofuels being just a few.
Let us do something unique and have a NEVADA COUNTY ENERGY RAFFLE?
If we all donated $One Dollar to a Nevada County Energy Raffle, we would stimulate local jobs thru renewable energy installations along with green appliances, maybe even a Hybrid. Doesn’t really matter because the bottom line is it all flows back into our local commerce. The best part would be its FULLY_TRANSFERRABLE meaning use what you want and pass along the rest. To a friend, relative, business. So if you won a second time, you have many options to you can use. We have 97,000 citizens. If we could get $50,000 from the citizens and $130,000 from owners of industrial building, (at least 200,000 structures in Nevada County) we could possible have 9 or 10 weekly raffle winners contributing back into the economy. That could be $180,000 a week going back into our economy thru jobs, taxes, retail, etc…Money would once again be flowing thru our donations.
When $20,000 is raised, a winner will be chosen. This will be continuous 24/7/365. What do you win? Renewable products that can be bought with a Virtual Bank Card. Products are bought on a dedicated website from established businesses in Nevada County. The webpage and operations would be run by a Nevada County Non-Profit Organization to help citizens of Nevada County that are less fortunate to get fed and off the streets. Also to help our Veterans that may be in need. 95% of the winning raffle tickets will be paid back. Only 5% retained for the Non-Profit Mission.
Any business that benefits from a winning raffle ticket purchases for their services, products, etc… within Nevada County would donate back 5% to either: Additional tickets (to increase amount of winning raffles) or 5% back to Operations that would use to satisfy the Mission Statement. Both are Tax Deductible.
Everyone wins. The retailers, the job market, the homeowners, the business owners, the Non-Profit organization, and helping the planet go GREEN all at the same time. City Treasurer benefits by increased purchases of products and services resulting in higher tax revenues.
BENEFITS: Why I would buy a raffle ticket) NO ONE LOSES
• Increases Home Values
• Excess power results in Approx. $0.09 per Kwh
• Increases disposable income by minimal energy bills
• Reduces Carbon Footprint, we become producers instead of consumers
• Get to buy Energy Green appliances or even a Hybrid.
• Spreads and create installation jobs thru-out Nevada County
• Increases Re-cycling of old “non-green” appliances
• Simple to play and runs 24/7. Whenever there’s enough tickets sold
• FULLY TRANSFERRABLE- Give it away. To a friend, relative, whoever
If you support, let your city council know. we the people, by the people starts to make sense.
Best Regards,
Gary
Grass Valley, CA
gfosburg@gmflabs.com for flow chart if interested - Mark1981, on 07/14/2009, -0/+0(it probably because it gives them an erection).
Should be
(probably because it gives them an erection). - liberatorprime, on 07/14/2009, -0/+0"On Liberty" take a second to discover what this country was founded on and promptly STFU. Sincerely, the minority.
- calcm, on 07/14/2009, -1/+1I guess one can think of any belief as a religion especially if it is a strong belief. The environmentalist seem to have turned their love for the earth into a religion. I guess states arguing back and forth over who gets the solar and wind farms leads to an almost religious debate over who gets what.
- liberatorprime, on 07/14/2009, -1/+1Its obvious that those who resort to personal attacks example "morons" have no right debating. How about asking someone who actually lives in Wyoming what they think... I love the natural resources and recreation our northern laramie range provides and the last thing I want to see is it covered with worthless wind farms that are only 30 percent effecient that don't require new transmission lines but will have them built because of "terrorist" threats. These are legitimate claims. Research these things before you add to the sheep mentality. Rocky Mountain Power's transmission line, and Wasatch Wind's Northern Laramie Range are complete *****. We may see 14 longterm jobs and no wind tax severance pay at the cost of the beauty of nature if you can even place a cost on that. So thanks for the screw job!
Why is California's lack of power our problem? (do some research not because of transmission, lack of power plants, due to arnie's privatization of power)
Converse County in Wyoming has the cleanest air quality in the nation... and guess whats sitting right in the middle of it burning tons of anthracite everyday. Your ideas to save the earth are extremely detrimental and the best thing you could do is off yourself, your local community, and your memes. One thing remains true there are too many people on the earth.
If you continue to support your tyranny of the majority you might just piss of the minority enough they might act very irrationally. Take a minute and read "On Liberty" and thanks for keeping your views from impacting my quality of life. keep your ignorance and wind farms to yourself. - EnergyLottery, on 07/16/2009, -0/+0National Emergency Energy Farming Lottery
To the American Citizens,
NATIONAL LOTTERY HISTORY as quoted by Scientific Games Lottery-Museum
http://www.scigames.com/sections/lottery-museum/
“For almost 400 years the lottery has played a significant role in American history. From 1612 to 1621, it provided the colonists at Jamestown about 8,000 pounds a year that helped them pay passage for many of the new settlers. In 1776, a lottery authorized by the Continental Congress brought in revenue that helped offset the high cost of the Revolutionary War.
Lotteries held during the decade following the war allowed Congress to repay foreign and domestic loans made to the United States in the interest of the Revolution. Before, during, and after the war, state legislatures authorized lotteries that paid for the construction of buildings at Yale, Harvard, Dartmouth, Brown, and many other prestigious universities. In the 1790s lotteries subsidized state and private buildings in Washington D.C., Philadelphia, and New York.
For the next century lotteries built roads, bridges, railroads, and schools, as well as helping the poor, elderly, and destitute. Although lotteries were banned in the first half of the twentieth century because of isolated cases of fraud and abuse, community leaders and citizens never lost sight of the potential benefits of the lottery. In 1964, the lottery, protected by stringent legislation, re-emerged and once again this recreational "voluntary tax" provides revenues for public education, senior citizens, transportation, roads, and parks.”
As you can see by our history, my proposal below isn’t so much new as just rejuvenating a system that has worked for us in the past. Let’s do it again!
VISION FOR NATIONWIDE EMERGENCY ENERGY FARMING LOTTERY
GOAL:
To take 100 million structures off the grid (meaning reduced consumption-not batteries) in ten years and at same time have those same structures start producing back into the grid. A net difference of two. There are approximately 100-110 million homes. At 50 Million homes producing same amount or close to back into the grid would balance the other 50 Million homes thus taking us to a “Neutral” carbon footprint.
THE PLAN
It is a simple plan. Have a 24/7 $1 dollar national lottery ticket that would be run in all 50 states. The winners would be issued a $25,000 voucher which could be used for any energy generating product or “GREEN” appliances. Give it away. To a relative, friend or business. It doesn’t matter as long it goes “GREEN”. Would be fully transferable to any person or entity should the winner already have such items as: Solar, Wind, etc….
The Fed’s could help by some form of matching funds or tax credits.
Now, if $1 Billion tickets sold per week, (52.1 billion lottery tickets sold nationwide in 2008) it will generate 40,000 winners per week or 3.968 winners every minute. Every single week of the year, another 40,000 people would be “eliminating grid consumption”. 20.8 Million
Structures in 10 years effectively pumping electricity back into the grid, effectively dropping our carbon footprint at twice the speed to a neutral position. If we could get matching Federal Funds, we could double that number. Think of that! That’s 41.6 Million Structures. How many “GREEN” jobs would that create? Millions & Millions in all sectors of GREEN technologies.
The collection of monies will be fully 21st technology. After signing up On-Line; Phones, cell-phones, blackberries, TV sets, email would be but several ways of being notified upon winning. No store terminals will be required.
The day-to-day operations of the lottery would be run by a non-profit organization. For every $25,000 voucher, $10 would go for running operations and increase expansion of this non-profit organization. Therefore, the voucher would be $24,990. The organization purpose would be to help people with Disabilities, Veterans, Homeless, etc…get back on their feet.
ADDENDUM: (2-20-09)
In giving the above paragraph some thought. Here is what I’m envisioning. It is only a concept.
Tickets would be bought via a dedicated web-site. Purchasers would have the option of having their bank accounts debited on an individual basis. $1, $5, $10, $25, $50, $100 max. per month. The money debited against your account turns into Lottery Voucher Credits. They would have the option of a “window” so if they wanted to play at 5:00 pm every day, week, month, etc…they would have the option provided that window is available. Remember, a drawing is approx. every minute for 3.96 winners.
Every time $25,000 is collected, a random drawing from 00001-24990 would issue the winning number.
Thus, this lottery would be a 24/7 operation. Every 3.96 minutes another winning number would be issued. Since each drawing is only 24,990 players, we would need a method of notifying players that they are in the next drawing of 24,990 players and their number is 00001-24990 to prevent confusion as to what game they are entered in, based upon when debit from account occurs, kinda like Keno.
Upon winning, a message would go out to every player announcing the winning number for that drawing. Email, Iphones, cell-phones, text messaging, TV, website, blackberries, Ipods, etc…would be involved based upon players sign-up on the website. Should they win, a message would come up “YOU ARE A WINNER” $24,990 has been deposited to your account.
We would have an “APPROVED VENDOR LIST” on the website. Winners would then go to web-site and buy Solar Panels, Wind Turbines, Energy GREEN appliances, Hybrids, Solar Fans, etc…The company that they buy from would debit this account and ship product to the winners.
Since it’s fully transferable, this web-site account will have a method of transferring balance to another person, entity, corporation, etc…of their choosing provided they have an account on this web-site.
Since most people have a morbid curiosity of “how close” they came to winning, it would be fun to post the results as to how close they came. For example, I receive an email that says “your are number 12,345 the winner number was 12,347. You missed by two numbers. Please try again.
A TYPICAL SCENARIO IF I WON A $25,000 LOTTERY VOUCHER:
I would install Solar in my home which costs around $16,000. The balance of $9,000, I would buy “energy GREEN” appliances. A new Refrigerator, Washing Machine, Dryer, Freezer, Heating systems, etc…creating additional energy savings. The extra energy now generated would go directly back into the “Grid” creating additional credits to my account along with generating electricity nationwide back into the grid. The savings of approx. $3000-$6000/yr that I had been paying for monthly energy bills, I would probably buy a Hybrid because I could use my credits for charging my Hybrid. Now my home and vehicle/s would take us to a “0” carbon footprint for our home. As a side benefit of this proposal for Americans is with increased energy output nationwide, it should drive down cost per Kilowatt thus helping the Nation as a whole.
BENEFITS: (Why I would buy a lottery ticket)
1. Increases home values
2. Excess power creates “credits”. Approx. $0.09 cents per KWH ($avings) to homes
3. Increases disposable income by having minimum or no energy bills.
4. Starts to reduces carbon footprint immediately
5. No new power grid requirements
6. Get to buy new Energy GREEN appliances, bulbs, etc…
7. Use Balance for Hybrid purchase to create a “0” carbon footprint.
8. Spreads installation jobs evenly nationwide; installers, mfg’ers, sales
9. Increases energy GREEN jobs for American workers
10. Increases re-cycling of old “non-GREEN” appliances
11. Even distribution reduces risk of terrorist attach against our grid
12. Resistant to energy disruptions due to national disasters ie; Hurricane IKE
THE ODDS: (25,000 to 1) At 25,001 another lottery drawing is done, etc...
A billion per week is 40,000 winners, 3.96 winners every minute. Side Note: Approx. $1.04 Billion of yearly disposable income could be realized by elimination of monthly energy costs.
Winners Minute Winners Hour Winners Day Winners Week Winners Year
3.968 238.08 5,713.92 39,997.44 2,079,867
$99,200 $5,952,000 $142,848,000 $999,936,000 $51,996,672,000
HOMELAND SECURITY
The visions outlined above also defends against the possibility of terrorism regarding our energy grid. With a universal grid distribution, America disruption would be minimal due to the uniformity of energy being produced thru every home, apartments, mobile home parks, industrial complexes, local, state and federal buildings, etc…. nationwide.
CONCLUSION
In time of need, the American people have always stood together. This lottery would give the chance for the people to feel involved for a good cause to a new future.
By the People, for the People seems appropriate in this situation.
Even President Abraham Lincoln used lotteries to advance America’s destiny.
The spike in gasoline prices showed us how vulnerable the American people is when it comes to disposable income. We can’t keep the economy going if we don’t have any extra money to spend. When $800 billion leaves our economy for oil every year, it’s no wonder.
My proposals above would put substantial monies in your pockets. Instead of a tax rebate for a small amount, my plan would release that $300-$600 monthly electric bill every month
The visions outlined above would help America (and the world) in bringing about a cleaner environment and a new direction for the 21st Century.
I so hope you might give this some attention and support.
God bless America, God bless Planet Earth.
Sincerely,
Grass Valley, CA - larryodbc, on 07/14/2009, -4/+2central planning was the failure of the Soviet empire... it will probably be China's failure too... stable thriving ecosystems are built on diversity... ecosystems start local and grow global... the federal government should establish rules for carbon caps and an evolving set of best practices for electrical-grid 2.0++ -- just like an operating system, scientists and engineers need a stable yet pliable platform upon which to build... while centralized power production may bring efficiencies, technological innovation is typically squelched by the "one-size-fits-all" approach... diversity of solutions and collaboration to reach a smart-efficient-and progressively-evolving electric grid will bring about quicker progress than the "kill.-the-competition" mentality exhibited by politicians and corporate war lords... just my two cents :/
- Mesmeriser, on 07/14/2009, -7/+3amazing what religion can do ...
- gtrob, on 07/14/2009, -6/+2Register to see article? Buried.
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