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54 Comments
- TheMachine1, on 06/28/2008, -1/+9I think a previous story suggested natural gas (NG) fueling might be 1/2 of the current cost of gasoline. We already have extensive pipeline distribution of NG. Though no one is going to buy NG ready cars till there are NG filling stations and no one is going to build the filling stations till there are a signficatly number of cars(Uncle Sam giving big tax breaks to Big NG might get it done).
There is a household filling unit but Its not really available in most the US(lame company policy). Its expensive, fills cars very slowly over hours and may require lots of future capital investment in repairs and replacement. Its compressed natural gas(CNG) so range is another big limiting factor.
A relative low cost say vending machine size unit that could be dropped in any location with NG, electric power, and a phone line say at every walmart in the US. Would be a good way to give NG car fueling a big injection in the arm. But you still have the massive inital investment in the fueling pumps.
Other concern is NG does often skyrocket in cold weather. I would suggest its a must that cars have a dual fueling option.
NG is a fossil fuel but being a simple molecule its actually something that could be made
synthetically. Such as by hydrogenation of carbon dioxide. A CO2 neutral H2 production method would provide a global warming friendly solution in the future.
Dual fueled diesels that use mostly NG and then a small diesel charge to ignite the mix are much clearer. So you get the high efficiency of a conventional diesel but with an emission that is legal everywhere. You need a catalytic converter but unlike a conventional diesel it likely want foul up in a short amount of time. This might be the best
idea put the filling stations at all the big truck stops in the US. That way a smaller number of locations and a lot of high capacity users might reduce the initial cost. Natural gas using diesel trucks are in production now. At least one company has conversion kits for a few models to. - Janizzary, on 06/28/2008, -0/+9WTF? No one ever talks about CNG, despite the fact that it's used all over the Middle East & South Asia. All my relatives in Egypt have their cars rigged to take both gasoline & CNG. Why can a developing country like Egypt do this while the US can't is beyond me...
- glowfood, on 06/28/2008, -0/+6If CNG vehicles and fuel stations were easily available, demand would rise and prices would double. This is pointless.
- Barackalypse, on 06/28/2008, -0/+6No distribution network? My home, along with 49.1 million homes in this country are currently heated with natural gas, how do you suppose they do that? There are buried natural gas lines everywhere in this country, all you need is a compressor and a storage tank.
http://www.naturalgas.org/overview/uses_residentia ... - gmaki, on 06/28/2008, -0/+6I drive a Honda Civic CNG. Had it for two years and tracked every fill up against miles driven. 1 gallon equivalent costs me $1.99 currently and I get an honest 36 mpg.
My long term fuel cost per mile is about 6 cents. - Laminarcissus, on 06/28/2008, -0/+5George?
- largobargo, on 06/28/2008, -0/+4And what do you think will happen to NG prices when demand increases by 100 times?
- xexx, on 06/28/2008, -0/+4A 17 year old from Troland, IL whose parents buy all his gas doesn't understand? Who'd of thunk...
- Barackalypse, on 06/28/2008, -0/+3A home CNG filling station costs $3,500 before the $1,000 tax credit, so we're hardly taking earthshattering amounts of capital to retrofit gas stations to do this (granted, the commercial versions are going to cost more, since you dont want to wait 16 hours for it to do it)
http://www.motorists.org/carfamily/home/honda-civi ...
Its also amusing to me how you've gone from saying there isn't a distribution network to saying the problem is that existing stations are not hooked up to that distribution network. Have you ever seen road construction before and seen the little red flags alongside the street indicating natural gas supply lines? How long do you suppose it takes to run 50 feet of hose from the road to a building to connect it?
As far as it not being anywhere, there are 4 CNG stations within 10 miles of Chicago, have a look at other cities.
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/stations/find_stat ... - inactive, on 06/28/2008, -0/+3Not trying to be a naysayer, but a few years ago, a guy I went to high school with burned to death while operating a propane powered forklift.
- Yookji, on 06/28/2008, -1/+3Instead, how about everyone cough up $50,000+ for a pure electric car! Except, we don't have an infinite supply of electricity, so let's just go back to the Stone Age instead.
- NJank, on 06/28/2008, -0/+2so, bottom line: miles/dollar
where does this fall? - BurgerDST, on 06/29/2008, -0/+2How unfortunate when grandma can't pay her heat bill because some jerk inflates natural gas prices by pumping his hummer full of it. We need electric cars powered by nuclear, solar, wind, geothermal, tidal, and wave energy all diversified, decentralized, and specialized to specific regions.
- Yookji, on 06/28/2008, -0/+2If there's not an infinite supply, then we can't use it? That's *****.
- seedplanter, on 06/28/2008, -0/+2In my area of USA our village uses natural gas powered vehicles and they like them.
- mikedoth, on 06/28/2008, -0/+2Simple answer, this country is cheap and lazy. And so is our government.
- SmartfulDodger, on 06/28/2008, -0/+2When you purchase the new Honda CNG car, they also include installation of a filling station into your garage.
- mweels, on 06/28/2008, -1/+3How about a bike.
- astroslut, on 06/28/2008, -0/+2So any suggestions?
- motters, on 06/28/2008, -0/+2Unfortunately the cost of natural gas is rising at a similar rate to that of oil, since its production is closely related. I don't think this is going to be a viable solution.
- Ebulating, on 06/28/2008, -0/+2Exactly. Oil and gas has been just sitting in the ground for all of human history. We might as well use it.
- astroslut, on 06/28/2008, -0/+1"I don't think it's a practical solution for the average passenger vehicle."
True, right now, but if natural gas was helped into mass transit and shipping, large projects, but self contained somewhat, and removed from electricity and replaced with nuclear. It wouldn't solve the whole problem, but it helps. It's a perfect time in our history for the greatest compromise, we have to do some of everything for a while, solar, wind, natural gas, nuclear, ethanol, algae, methane, coal-shell, and yes even oil. There is not a single big enough bandage to stop the bleeding, but we've got enough small band-aids to slow it down. - pstroll, on 06/28/2008, -0/+1The last thing we need to be doing is squandering NG by burning it up on America's highways.
- xexx, on 06/28/2008, -0/+1Bush and Co doesn't seem to want us to use anything BUT nonrenewable energy. Sure they pay lip service but that's all it is. A real president would take charge and you'd hear "See that desert there bitches? Yeah, solar panels are going there. See that ***** hill? Wind turbines will be spinning there in a year. See that ***** water there? Drilling right now mother *****. See that land there? nuclear plants now bitches. " Actually having their actions reflect their lip service, we could get something done.
- krnldmp, on 06/28/2008, -0/+1CNG requires compression ratios close to 20:1 to get optimum efficiency, so gasoline engines configured to also accept CNG would operate at considerably reduced efficiency when running CNG, unless it was equipped with a turbo controlled by an engine management computer that increased charge pressure when running on CNG. Unfortunately, even though the detonation threshold is raised by CNG's "octane rating" of around 120, the engine would need to be designed to handle the increased heat and pressure of CNG operation which invariably means heavier and more expensive components compared to an engine designed only for gasoline. I don't think it's a practical solution for the average passenger vehicle.
- kd1s, on 06/28/2008, -0/+1Back in 1999 the Rhode Island Public Transit Authority bought 30+ Chance Coach Trolley's that ran on CNG. Now they want to standardize their fleet on Orion and Gillig platforms for ease of maintenance. There are two or three Gillig buses running around that run on CNG though.
- astroslut, on 06/28/2008, -0/+1Quite possibly, but if you removed natural gas out of generating electricity at about the same rate with nuclear power, other than a few short periods of price fluctuation, you could keep the price steady. Plus the US can increase supply because we a bunch of natural gas. We wouldn't have to send billions of $ to countries that hate us.
- YoWhatDaFuxUp, on 06/28/2008, -1/+2Actually here's a car that runs on farts...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU - havokdu, on 06/28/2008, -0/+1Back in 2002, when Argentina went to *****, most people over here rigged their cars to use both gas and GNC (CNG).
Back then natural gas was dirty cheap, but after a few years Bolivia stopped exported cheap Natural gas and now it just doesn't make sense, only taxis use them.
The main problem is that the Natural Gas tanks will take a lot of trunk space, and in the event of a serious collision the explosion will be really dangerous. - inactive, on 06/28/2008, -0/+1Buses and some goverment cars use LNG and CNG in Long Beach, CA. They tested all the safety concerns about using natural gas and they found that tanks are safe enough for the daily commute.
- inactive, on 06/29/2008, -0/+1Hint: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_y7JLJGX_w
- thelelander, on 06/28/2008, -0/+1There's no point in investing in an infrastructure that will only last maybe a decade. Nat gas has skyrocketed in price and there's no point in making this risky investment when other tech is on the horizon.
- fireburner23, on 06/29/2008, -0/+1I recommend using LPG over CNG. LPG has lower infrastructure costs and it has all the benefits of CNG.
- Laminarcissus, on 06/29/2008, -0/+1Maybe, but at least I read the article that completely lays out the answer to his question before I asked any questions of my own.
- beauley, on 06/29/2008, -0/+1With Global Warming on many people's minds, do we have any ideas of the best way to lessen the impact on our future, or maybe a possible relief of its possible ravages or even a possible key to its eventual reversal. Many scientific experts have proposed
http://www.quazen.com/Science/Technology/Solar-Pow ...
Solar Power, Source of Endless Energy - Lancelot9201, on 06/28/2008, -0/+1I can remember when the USPS drivers all had natural gas vehicles & I always wondered why they stopped..
- inactive, on 06/28/2008, -0/+1Four years ago a barrel of oil was less than $40, now it's more than $140.
Son, how about a nice warm glass of shut the ***** up? - inactive, on 06/29/2008, -0/+1People are aware that this stuff blows the hell up right?
- themaestro18, on 06/28/2008, -0/+1By natural gas, do they mean these vehicles? http://www.bestsnippets.com/post/38062934/toyota-d ...
- screensnot, on 06/28/2008, -0/+1When will people learn?
We need to ban forklifts!
Just remember: Lift with your legs, not your back. - ArianeB, on 06/28/2008, -0/+1Natural Gas is a byproduct of Oil production that is at a production standstill the same as Oil. Natural gas is the primary ingredient in most fertilizers, and it is of course used to heat houses.
Regardless of the cost, it is a bad idea to use up this important resource in cars, when there are better alternatives. - JimSkelton, on 06/28/2008, -0/+0Alternatives to either NG or Gas products has to be the wave of the future. We can no longer sit by while we destroy the air our children and grandchildren will be breathing. Some how, solar power needs to be developed to replace the petroleum based fossil fuels. http://jimskelton.net
- iroccamaro9, on 02/27/2009, -0/+0CNG is actually less likely to blow up than gasoline. It is lighter than oxygen, so it is dispersed faster.
- Barackalypse, on 06/28/2008, -1/+1Brilliant, with just the demand/supply picture now the price has doubled on it in less than a year, lets add a whole bunch more demand from converted vehicles and see what happens:
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/NG/W - jazboy, on 06/28/2008, -0/+0you're a jerk
- duhhhhh, on 10/26/2008, -0/+0Right... that's what makes it ideal for a COMBUSTION engine. Thank God for gasoline, we all know that stuff is COMPLETELY non-explosive.
- iroccamaro9, on 02/27/2009, -0/+0Great article. Check out my blog at http://www.aftermarketcng.com .
- inactive, on 06/28/2008, -2/+1That's nice, but how many gas stations have a NG line to the building? Almost none. Lets face it, it's not cost effective to draw a NG line to every station and install a special fueling device to dispense a resource that has less than 10 years before the cost exceeds what people can afford. The infrastructure has no chance of paying for it's self, thats why you don't see it anywhere. It's a clueless persons wet dream.
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