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Coral Overheating, Scientists Say
livescience.com — Scientists have issued their strongest warning so far this year that unusually warm Caribbean Sea temperatures threaten coral reefs that suffered widespread damage last year in record-setting heat.
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- bpinard, on 10/12/2007, -5/+17Overheating? Just watercool it. Oh wait....
- SmokedL, on 10/12/2007, -13/+24Just as a precaution, hopefully preventing at least one or two completely uninformed posts, here is a list of things you can say that only proves that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Global Warming:
1. Is false because place X is colder now than at time Y.
2. Is a natural cycle only.
3. Has no proven connection with human activities.
4. Is caused by solar activity.
5. Cannot be combated by human activities so we should just give up.
6. Is not really considered to be true by a huge majority of the scientific community.
If you believe any of the above to be true, please do some actual research about it. Here's a good place to start: http://realclimate.org/
Unlike the sources for pieces of misinformation such as those in my list, this site is run by real climate scientists. Here's a list of contributor's and their Bio's:
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/category/extras/contributor-bios/ - Popcan, on 10/12/2007, -15/+6http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/
- SmokedL, on 10/12/2007, -7/+14About JunkScience, it sure does live up to it's name. I wonder why you did not post the Bio of the man running the site:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Steven_J._Milloy
"Steven J. Milloy is a columnist for Fox News and a paid advocate for Phillip Morris, ExxonMobil and other corporations."
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=JunkScience.com
"Although Milloy frequently represent himself as an expert on scientific matters, he is not a scientist himself. He holds a bachelor's degree in Natural Sciences, a law degree and a master's degree in biostatistics. He has never published original research in peer-reviewed scientific journals." - Popcan, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html?id=3711460e-bd5a-475d-a6be-4db87559d605&rfp=dta
All i am saying is there are plenty of extremist websites AND climatoligists on both sides of this issue. - flameOn, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2I always see people attacking the guy who supports the site junkscience.com, but I have not found anyone critiquing the actual math/science he uses (although I don’t necessarily agree with him either). I'm not advocating we ignore the source of a given statement (always consider the source), but I would like to see some constructive discussions around his actual claims. If we doubt his claims, then we should be able to prove them as not being accurate right? I’m not familiar with the field enough to critique it, but I would expect someone to setup a site like they do with the loosechange folks (ie screwloosechange) to counter his claims. If someone has that site, I would like to read it and keep it as a resource.
- ActionJeans, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1@ SmokedL ... Dude, I think he was kidding. Clues are cheap, you should get one.
- Popcan, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1No, i wasn't joking. I read the site and found it very interesting. But i guess because the guy doesn't have a piece of paper from a University, he is wrong. Like my other post shows, there are plenty of scientists who you can look to to support any opinion you can come up with, but it doesn't make it true.
- ActionJeans, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2@ popcan: Not you man, the watercooling guy... sheez.
- macfanboi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2God Design this to happen, geez!
- vikingcoder, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@flameOn
http://timlambert.org/category/science/milloy/
>>
Unsuspecting visitors might think that Milloy’s site is devoted to criticizing shoddy science, but they would be wrong. If you look at what he “debunks” you will find that the real criterion for deciding what is “junk science” is not the quality of the work, but the political agenda that it might support. Studies that support a right-wing agenda are endorsed, while studies that don’t are harshly criticized.
>>
That is only the opening paragraph. Milloy's claims are then torn apart, bit by bit. - flameOn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@vikingcoder - Thanks for the information - this is exactly what I was looking for. Not sure why I got dugg down for asking for this and for a good discussion on the science, but thanks for the information.
- SmokedL, on 10/12/2007, -13/+24Just as a precaution, hopefully preventing at least one or two completely uninformed posts, here is a list of things you can say that only proves that you have no idea what you are talking about.
- EvilTesdall, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2liquid nitrogen !
- devindotcom, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Record-setting ocean temperatures? Don't worry, I'm sure it's not part of a well-documented global trend - it's so pleasant where I am!
- repins, on 10/12/2007, -11/+7In the words of chicken little....
"The sky is falling, the sky is falling...." - Popcan, on 10/12/2007, -15/+10News Flash: Temperatures change over time!
- Llan, on 10/12/2007, -13/+6I wish the amount of idiotic remarks like yours would change...to none...
- clickwir, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5@Llan
No, he's right. It does.
- ampledismantle, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12A global ban on peeing in the ocean might just be enough to cool it off a few degrees.
- crzdmnsldy, on 10/12/2007, -8/+0hmm..
- HP844182, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Not the coral! Someone think of the children.
- lcohiomatty86, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2no... its Somebody think of the fishes!
- 0v3rk1ll, on 10/12/2007, -9/+6Great, I'm in the Caribbean. Thanks assholes, for pumping all that CO2 and other greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, pretty soon we'll all boil to death over here.
- spjmm0, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4yes people in the Caribbean do not release greenhouse gasses, I bet their crap does not stink either.
I went to a small island where they pump RAW feces into the ocean near the barrier reef. That probably is good for it. - 0v3rk1ll, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I can't do ***** what other people do with their crap, but ours doesn't go into the system. It's caught in a big tank where we use it to water our plants. And, we ride our bycicles to work etc. so no, we don't pump as much CO2 as most other people.
Next time do your ***** research before opening that ass of yours you call a mouth. Moron.
- spjmm0, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4yes people in the Caribbean do not release greenhouse gasses, I bet their crap does not stink either.
- JohnCrichton, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Saw a show on this on PBS a couple of weeks ago, pretty interesting.
Coral bleaching is pretty bad, all of the magnificent coral's turn all white and brittle.
"http://www.science.org.au/nova/076/076key.htm" - Chepito, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7It may not seem like a big deal now, but the ramifications will be global sooner, rather than later.
The fish that inhabit these reefs will begin to die, the fish that eat those fish will begin to die, and so on.- Lyph4, on 10/12/2007, -8/+4Natual selection. If they're dying off, they should adapt or move somewhere else.
- HP844182, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3I don't know why post like this get dugg down...isn't it the truth?
The environment is changing, those that don't adapt, die. That's the way it's always been. - jonathono2000, on 10/12/2007, -9/+1You must be conservative.
The world is yours given to you by god, all the animals and everything it has to offer is yours for the taking because you are man and to hell with the consequences.
Am I right, or am I right.
Then any scientific evidence (the same science that has developed out of this world ideas like evolution) that is trying to tell you that this world isn't yours and that god didn't make it for you to do whatever you want with because if you do it is going to have drastic consequences is just *****. So you fill you head with "rational" explanations to gobal warming that allow you to go on thinking that everything is Ok, that it is not you fault, that everthing can just die off (which in the end includes the human race) and it is all part of Gods plan.
***** you, and ***** god's plan.
The funny thing is all the humans will die, but life on the planet will go on, and that is humbling.
In case nobody else noticed I officially lost faith in humanity while typing this. - jonathono2000, on 10/12/2007, -6/+0The above should have read @HP844182
- Jugalator, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"Natual selection. If they're dying off, they should adapt or move somewhere else."
If the environmental change is quick enough, there's no time to adapt, regardless organism. - ActionJeans, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@ jonathono: Wait, you had faith in humanity? What's the deal, haven't you been reading the news? Or a history book? Ever? Just sayin...
- clickwir, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2Yea, and what am I supposed to do about it? You want me to drive 70mph instead of 75mph? Will that help?
How about trying to sell your idea to a company that makes products that could help....- Llan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Using your brain would be a start...
- flameOn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Having my own reef tank with corals that I keep as well, I can tell you there are probably over a 100 reasons why corals could die or bleach out, and many more reasons we probably have no idea about without more study. I'm not saying it isn't temperature shifts as I'm not a scientist (temperature changes definitely can cause this... it has happened to me), but corals in most reef tanks swing at least a few degrees every single day with no problems, and some run there tanks this hot. I just don't see anything in this study that is guaranteed conclusive, although 85 degrees does seem awfully warm (I keep my tank at no more then 80). The quote from the article seems to say it best and should be emphasized:
"There is still so much to learn about the physiology of coral''
It seems one could probably blame not just air pollution (ie global warming), but should strongly consider the idiots who dump crap into our oceans (including heating them with said crap).- spjmm0, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2What study something and not come to a human cause! No way!
- witte, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7>> "unusually warm sea surface temperatures"
"the oceans have cooled in the last three years, scientists announced today."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14944138- vikingcoder, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1"The temperature drop, a small fraction of the total warming seen in the last 48 years, suggests that global warming trends can sometimes take little dips.
...
This cooling is probably natural climate variability. The oceans today are still warmer than they were during the 1980s"
- vikingcoder, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1"The temperature drop, a small fraction of the total warming seen in the last 48 years, suggests that global warming trends can sometimes take little dips.
- Neem, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"Natual selection. If they're dying off, they should adapt or move somewhere else."
Natural selection happens over tens of thousands of years not over 7 decades...
Very few species can adapt to the brute climate change that is upon us now.- witte, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Natural selection happens the instant an organism dies.
- HP844182, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3The individual organisms might not be able to adapt, but if 4 of them survive and repopulate the reefs, then natural selection has occurred. There is no "right to live". You have to prove yourself fit enough to live in your environment, if it changes and you can't deal with it, you lose.
- sgreger1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Evolution can be sudden, within a few generations, however at the rapid pace that global warming is happening, there is a good chance that lot fo life will die out, kind of like an ice age, but there is no guarantee humans will survive.
- Shots, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Hmmm.... Should do more scuba diving while there are still sights to see.
Quick question to all out there, do we know how accurate are our current models of weather patterns?
Can we actually tell what will happen to future weather if current trends continue? - spjmm0, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@ov3rk1llyou comment that we are a$$holes and that you can't do anything about what others do witht their crap.
Then why post at all. Posting a comment meens that you want to be heard. Calling us a$$holes means that you want us to feel bad. If you want us to feel bad then you are trying to change a behavior. Helping us change a behavior means that you are doing something.
Pull you head out of your "tank" and get some fresh air.- 0v3rk1ll, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The point is, most people are still assholes for pointlessly wasting resources, thereby heating up our part of the planet. Oh, but wait, what was that? You want a slightly warmer winter? So for that we need to constantly live in 120 degree heat? I see. :-/
- spjmm0, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I am of the opinion that wasting resources is bad. I never said it was not. What I did not like is that you call all people or at least the ones that read your post a$$holes. At work and home I have done as much as monetarily possible not to waste stuff. We just shutdown over 200 workstations in a test lab in favor of VMs.
I want the winters to be what they were. That is why I live in MN. BTW the many regions of the planet are getting warmer. Some are getting colder. Some ice is melting some is getting thicker.
I had an boss who accused me of taking leaps that is what you are doing by applying no knowledge of my daily activities to insist I want warmer winters. I like the cold. You can always put on more clothes but not take of any more than getting naked.
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