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35 Comments
- Pseudorious, on 09/04/2009, -3/+13Funny, the only thing the scientists agree upon is more government spending on science.
- angryredplanet, on 09/04/2009, -0/+5"I just don't believe CO2 has any significant impact on climate."
You are quite entitled to your thoughts, opinions and beliefs, however the facts remain the same. The science indicates some very sobering if not disturbing facts and trends, which are not disproved by your opinions. These things don't go away just by believing we are not responsible for them. - Ocyris, on 09/04/2009, -2/+6so, ummmm... The Environmental Industrial Complex?
- Barackalypse, on 09/04/2009, -1/+5Actually the damning is by the people, it remains to be seen what nature thinks of things.
- BooksSmart, on 09/04/2009, -0/+3Damned if we do, damned if we don't. It's an eventuality.
- SystemicThought, on 09/04/2009, -2/+5Yeah... dumping iron in our water bodies to promote algae growth, and ***** with eco systems seems dangerous. Altering temperature through painting roads white to reflect the sun won't change the carbon to oxygen ration that's screwing with our planets bio-equilibrium. Blocking out the mother ***** sun with satellite networks of mirrors? That's some Mr. Burns-esque supervillan ***** right there.
In World War II, people rallied and conserved for the national effort in the war. Today, we can't get people to walk 4 blocks to the gas station for a back of smokes instead of drive.
"When you ride alone, you ride with Hitler!"
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/powers_of_persuas ... - ghatid, on 09/04/2009, -2/+5Messing with the ecosystem is like messing with the economy; only bad things come of it and yet we expect the government to do both.
- compulsive1, on 09/04/2009, -2/+5"Climate engineering could have catastrophic consequences"
This message brought to you by Council of International Carbon Credit Traders.
And you though Exxon Mobil was influencing the Global Warming debate with their measly $20 billion in profits. Meet the new lords of energy markets- Goldman Sachs and Friends. They will turn the 2 Trillion dollar market into a new stream of derivatives that will make them more money than Exxon has ever made.
Every well-meaning scientist working on geo-engineering solutions to warming is in for a rude awakening. Bankers will see to it that only carbon credits are the accepted solution to global warming. There is just more money in it for them. - deema1, on 09/04/2009, -1/+3Anything and everything can produce unintended consequences. Even the noblest of solutions can create disastrous fallout. It's the very reason central planning and government intervention doesn't work, and often exacerbates problems, regardless of the administration in charge.
If you want a perfect example of the law of unintended consequences, look into the story of the Australian Cane Toad.
http://animal.discovery.com/videos/weird-true-frea ... - angryredplanet, on 09/04/2009, -0/+2I agree with the article in a sense. The analogy that springs to mind is that we are like exuberant children in an antique toy store.
In using something like geo-engineering we are addressing the symptoms, whereas the root cause of the problem is only tackled by addressing the problem.
I am very honestly afraid that there may come a time where we may no longer be left with a choice of which path to take. - angryredplanet, on 09/05/2009, -0/+2Wait a minute - you said: "solar climate"
Sol - the name of our local star.
...ar - a suffix modifier appended to a noun changing a subsequent word to mean "attributed to" the former noun.
"Solar climate" therefore implies climate "attributed to" our local star, Sol.
You mention my ignorance of "extra-solar" sources, which is not "solar climate". I know about such influences and never denied their existence, although the primary driver of our climate is still our local star. My questioning was to ascertain whether you really believe that climatologists ignore solar influences in Earth's climate models. Furthermore, I want to see some evidence to support this extraordinary claim. - Oatlord, on 09/04/2009, -0/+2And what are you doing to start this new society? Planted any old growth trees anywhere lately?
- angryredplanet, on 09/04/2009, -0/+1Yeah, the kooky conspiracy theorist angle works well.
- inactive, on 09/04/2009, -2/+3Hasen't it been proven that global temps will increase even if we stop producing carbon?
Geoengineering will proably become lucrative business somethime soon. - wrathchilde, on 09/04/2009, -0/+1Please identify a group that does not promote increased spending on science.
- trebuchet03, on 09/04/2009, -1/+2I wonder what the people that believe that we can not change our environment/climate think. Just curious, because if they believe we can't - we wouldn't be successful in attempting to cool anything down or any attempt at geoengineering...
This is a legitimate request for your opinions. - CNAIF, on 09/04/2009, -0/+1So they want to spend millions upon millions to ***** things up even more,
instead of spending millions upon millions to fix things that are already ***** up.
Boy aren't they smart./s
Clean up the messes we've made you stupid *****, Mother Nature will repair itself over time. Enough with these stupid man made quick fix/potential for bigger disaster ideas.
edit - Mother Nature is amazingly resilient and repairs herself far faster than these ***** seem capable of realizing. - shawnfromnh, on 09/04/2009, -0/+1I'm broke and live in the middle of the city with no car so I can't buy or transport trees so that's where giving people jobs planting tree's comes in. You hook up a Bobcat or some other small type vehicle with some sort of fast hole digging unit, then have a flatbed truck setup with large mud type tires following with several people just placing saplings in each hole.
You repeat the above procedure all over the world and use people that are collecting unemployment or what it is they have in other countries since they're already getting paid for not working and you could plant over a million maybe even over 10 million trees a day depending on how much you fund the program. Seems better than putting some stupid fake trees up since they only have one purpose where a real tree has many purposes as it is a natural part of the environment.
Also which is failed to mention "where is all this collected CO2 placed?". I hear at the bottom of the ocean, buried, and other crap. Well I image a lot of CO2 and other greenhouse gases are produced just creating the fake tree's and then more gathering all this CO2 up since most vehicles to do this would run on gas or diesel and then even more transporting it all to the middle of the ocean then more getting the ship back.
We caused this by overpopulating and then cutting trillions of trees down over the centuries for living space, heating our homes, building homes and furniture, paper, cooking fires, and so much else. Trees are renewable but we've only renewed the ones we've cut in the past few decades if even that and only then just a fraction were replanted. If we look back to the 17th century the entire US east coast had 10 or even 20 times the trees that are there now. Due to us like usual building one big metropolis only broken intermittently from Boston to Atlanta we have 10's of millions of people producing CO2 in that area of the world alone and billions of trees removed for that and the roads, homes, and businesses to support them. We already have cut as many trees in our country as cut in the Amazon area so we have no right to bitch about them.
What we need to do is tell people "You know your family size has increased but the available land hasn't, you have been given a land quota and resource quota and you and your family will have to live on that, now stop reproducing and think about the rest of the world"
So basically I'm saying start a huge replanting project, reverse a lot of the urban sprawl that has happened over the last century by population controls like China "sure they're tough but they did the absolute right thing", and let nature fix another one of our huge screwups. - ISellSigals, on 09/04/2009, -0/+1Geo-engineering is happening already, HAARP fires 6.3 million watts of ultra low frequency radio waves into the ionosphere modifying the way the jetstream flows around the earth. They have admitted it is being used as a weapon in their own documents yet still deny it to the public.
- angryredplanet, on 09/04/2009, -1/+2"Not even the EXPERTS on climate who build these climate models take into account the fact that solar climate has a direct impact on the EArth's climate."
Just so I'm clear, you're positing that climatologists do not take the output of the sun into account when modelling Earth's climate?
Can you please cite something to back that up or did you invent it on the fly? - BooksSmart, on 09/04/2009, -0/+1I don't need to be shown what nature can do to our civilization to know she can DESTROY us.
- norman619, on 09/04/2009, -1/+1Thank you for demonstrating your ignorance of the external forces which impact our planet's climate. The sun is only one source. Extrasolar sources include them multitude of exploding stars, nebula, and radiation clouds our system routinely passes through as we orbit the center of our galaxy. Yes we orbit our sun or sun orbits the center of the galaxy. Oh! Almost forgot to add the effect of the Earth's weakening magnetic field which acts as a radiation shield of sorts. The radiation coming from ALL these sources has a direct impact on our climate. Here are a few scientific links to cure your ignorace:
http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.astro/2007 ...
http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2009/2009GL038429 ...
http://www.viewzone.com/magnetic.weather.html
This is part 1 of a series of clips from a documentary which examines the SCIENCE behind cosmic radiation's impact on the Earth's climate. I suggest you watch all parts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1qGOUIRac0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADAk4tR9Dko
Enjoy - jrm125, on 09/04/2009, -1/+1Yea, waiting further into the clip she talks about indoctrinating kids about the environment to make them "ecowarriors."
Nutjob. - jrm125, on 09/04/2009, -1/+1Remember kids...learning about the environment is bad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYwTGsxChj8 - TDDebug, on 09/04/2009, -3/+2Geoengineering... ha!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyTm_0D0uS8 - TSK05, on 09/04/2009, -4/+3Well, it is a bit concerning the department of education suggests teachers make posters of notable quotes from Obama. Is the department of education now there to create a cult of personality for Obama? They're certainly dead on that the department of education should never have been created (I stopped at that point so I don't know what else they said).
- shawnfromnh, on 09/04/2009, -4/+3There are millions of people unemployed worldwide. Have the governments hire them to plant billion upon billions of trees. Tree's not only absord CO2 as they have for a billion years but it has been shown that the green leaves because of the chlorophyll actually act to reduce heat by filtering the infrared spectrum of sunlight somewhat.
Heck using green or white shingles on houses to reflect light or promoting underground houses with grass on the roofs would help to. Make more parking garages instead of huge black parking lots that act as a heat sink or use a coloring agent in tar to make it a more reflective color.
Stop urban sprawl, forests and country settings are much cooler than the city for the simple reason that plants use sunlight and keep the earth cooler.
Lastly but most controversial especially among the religious especially is population controls and population reduction eventually. This planet doesn't have the resources to support over 6 billion humans. We should try to reduce the population to about 3 billion or less and in doing that we also reduce the demand for energy, food, stop urban sprawl right in it's tracks, reduce the demand for raw materials and reduce landfill waste. It's all good. The real problem is voters don't want to change or face the fact you can't go off and have 3 or 9 kids anymore , that the world is past full of people, and the politicians haven't got the balls to tell them that, and if they do the stupid and selfish ones vote them out of office.
It's time for a change in thinking and living. The free ride is over, time to be an adult civilization and face our responsibilities. - poitsplace, on 09/04/2009, -1/+0The group that believes we can't possibly change the environment are likely the same ones that deny evolution.
Now ME..I believe we can and have changed the environment. I just don't believe CO2 has any significant impact on climate. Just look at the new hockey stick graph nonsense they just released...Oooh, the arctic warmed quickly in the 1900's. See, it MUST be the CO2. Oops, almost all the warming happened by 1930...before our output was significant.
I think our largest impacts are actually from aerosols/particulates (which should cause warming in the arctic but not the antarctic...sound familiar?) and from land use, especially water diversion. CO2 just hasn't ever shown the potential for significant warming. Even if you assume 100% of the 20th century warming is from CO2 we end up with less than 1C more warming by 2100...but I tend to think most of it was natural. - DavisTheDigger, on 09/04/2009, -2/+1Excellent use of the precautionary principle, though I would love to see some of these new inventions in use.
- inactive, on 09/04/2009, -3/+2Money, MONEY! MORE AND MORE MONEY! MUAUAHAHAH HAHYAHYAH HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Woah. - spriggig, on 09/04/2009, -3/+1Species come and species go. Cest' la vie.
- twentyonexnine, on 09/04/2009, -3/+0Stop that. You're warming the planet.
- agvance, on 09/04/2009, -3/+1You need to coin it! The E.I.C. for short, now stronger and more well funded than the Military Industrial Complex.
- norman619, on 09/04/2009, -4/+2Climate engineering could have catastrophic consequences? Really?!
No *****! We know next to nothing about how our incredibly complex climate system works yet people wat to INTENTIONALLY ***** with it. Not even the EXPERTS on climate who build these climate models take into account the fact that solar climate has a direct impact on the EArth's climate. It's like letting a bunch of kindergarten kids tinker with your exotic sports car. It is a VERY bad idea and if we allow it then we deserve whatever natural catastrophy results from such a colossally bad idea. - inactive, on 09/04/2009, -12/+0yawn
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