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137 Comments
- indyGuy, on 06/26/2009, -5/+31Unfortunately, banning autos in my town would leave everyone starving, uneducated, and without work. If your city was designed so services are within walking distance, or the climate supports year-round bicycling, then cool. But most I've visited are not.
- inactive, on 06/26/2009, -4/+26I love bicycles.
- mccartyba, on 06/26/2009, -1/+22I would hope that their taxes go down a good deal...
- lazycat, on 06/26/2009, -8/+28U.S. death statistics for 2008:
- killed by firearms: 31,000 (55% suicides)
- killed by illegal drugs: number is so low, it's not reported
- killed by cars: 39,800 - SEANWOOKIE, on 06/26/2009, -0/+18Yeah, I live in Michigan too.
- vertinox, on 06/26/2009, -1/+15Yeah the thing about Europe is that most towns and cities there were around long before cars invented.
If you couldn't walk to work or to get food in the 1800s, you basically didn't. - frontaxle, on 06/26/2009, -4/+17Das is Dugg!
- nahsrocketeer75, on 06/26/2009, -5/+18Prediction: Cars will be clean and efficient *long* before this idea catches on.
- mortigon, on 06/26/2009, -1/+14ist
- MikeSD34, on 06/26/2009, -5/+171.) Reply button, use it.
2.) What do liberals have to do with this?! For that matter, what does politics have to do with this?? - luftwaffe808, on 06/26/2009, -4/+16But you probably don't go shooting your gun, or shooting up every day, now do you?
- andyb747, on 06/26/2009, -3/+14in case you missed this story on the front page back in April and in May... here it is again.
- Pilot85, on 06/26/2009, -0/+10I think they still have ambulances. If they let in vehicles to deliver goods and services, then they probably use emergency vehicles, as well.
- FXNGLAS, on 06/26/2009, -1/+10I can't even imagine how quiet that town must be.
- scy1192, on 06/26/2009, -0/+9Auto-Ban! I see what you did there!
- CRCulver, on 06/26/2009, -4/+13"And trains cost way more than cars per capita."
Here in Finland I get unlimited use of public transportation (commuter trains, metro, buses, trams and even an island ferry) for about 20€ a month. Owning a car would cost me exponentially more. Trains are plainly cheaper per capita if you discourage car ownership and fund them publicly. - evilesttoast, on 06/26/2009, -1/+9"number is so low, it's not reported"
or crack whores just dont get the media attention - cheddaro, on 06/26/2009, -2/+10Driving is by far the most dangerous thing the average person will do in their lifetime.
- pathouston22, on 06/26/2009, -3/+10Yeah, because everybody can just get up and leave their home because some people want to be facists and tell you you can't own a car.
- Calamier, on 06/26/2009, -1/+8This is awesome... I don't think this is practical large scale but these options are GREAT for the people who want them. I think this is just a little too far on the spectrum though, but maybe this will help promote more public transportation/cycling which is ALWAYS good on any scale.
- BDOUG, on 06/26/2009, -0/+7http://losenotloose.com/
- Smoffington, on 06/26/2009, -1/+7Yeah, a lot of cities are poorly designed.
- vertinox, on 06/26/2009, -0/+6In the United States where most major cities were created mostly in the last 60 odd years with cars in mind.
Where in Europe they were used to using the train and walking for at least 50 years before the car came into practice. - inactive, on 06/26/2009, -0/+6This will only work if those proposing the idea would also adhere to it. Here in the US I love how politicians tell the public to take public transportation then afterwards they hop in their SUVs and zip away.
- DiscoLando, on 06/26/2009, -1/+7Dugg for the clever headline.
- SilentSpyder, on 06/26/2009, -0/+6I don't see this happening in the US.
- blogger43, on 06/26/2009, -0/+6The idea is catching here in the states - It is called New Urbanism, Transit Oriented Development, Traditional Neighborhood Development, or Compact Living ... take your choice
- JK1150, on 06/26/2009, -1/+7why are there so many cars in that picture then?
- morepowerr, on 06/26/2009, -0/+5May work in US if you can use EV's or golf carts in town or even electric bike but. Unless you can. I don't see it in US.
Hell It is 10 miles from my house the the Wal-Mart & the other store. And every thing else shut down because Wal-Mart. - X9001, on 06/26/2009, -3/+7When cars are outlawed only outlaws will have cars
- trejrco, on 06/26/2009, -0/+4Yeah, a short commute (walk or bike ready) would be great ... but comes with many other costs.
/TJ ... or figure out how to work from home more often! - HCProgramr, on 06/26/2009, -0/+4Ask and ye shall receive, good sir.
http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/pix/artbachart.jpg
Gasoline tax revenues for 2008: $29.5bn.
Money paid to FHA: $41.3bn.
Grand total paid from other sources ("subsidization"): 11.8bn.
Side notes: $8.6bn of the $29.5bn is from Diesel taxes, but I'm not going to bother arguing semantics of 'gas tax' vs 'fuel tax'; the number above is the total of the two, I'm trying to be civil here. Also, the fuel/truck tax fund pays $1.1bn to trust funds, which I have not subtracted.
Count in taxes for purchasing and licensing semi trucks [the DOT approved stickers], and the discrepancy drops to $9.0bn.
But in the end? A tax is a tax is a tax. It's still money out of either one of our pockets, whether it's earmarked for something specific [gas tax, universal service fund, etc] or not. I highly doubt this discussion/argument [depending on whether one thinks I'm shouting or not...the '*highway* above was intended as a highlight, not a yell] would have been avoided if everyone was charged a 'rail tax' instead of just taking it from...wherever they pull it now.
I wasn't expecting the discrepancy to be that big...honestly, I was expecting rail to have a larger one but only by a small margin...but my point in the end is that it's a lot closer to profitable than it's made out to be, even with the 'Amtrak? More like off-the-track!' reputation they've had since my youth. And doubly so given that Amtrak only gets half of the $2bn and change...the rest I'm presuming goes to subways, metro rail, etc.
With discrepancies that small, I'd imagine most Euro-rail is close to...if not actually...profitable. A quick google shows Germany's is: http://www.topnews.in/government-endorses-daimler- ...
Japan's are as well: http://www.google.com/finance?q=TYO:9020
In the end, it comes down to what the infrastructure was built for. Countries that have based their infrastructure around mass transit are more than likely going to have profitable mass transit. Countries like ours that are based around the car? Mass Transit is naturally going to suffer. the realities of life here aren't necessarily the realities around the world. - HCProgramr, on 06/26/2009, -0/+4I'll see that challenge, with a slight modification...let's compare the federal money given to each type of transportation.
My source:
http://www.narprail.org/cms/images/uploads/fund.pd ...
The amount of money paid to Amtrak is $1.3bn. Another $1.3bn to passenger rail. Total: $2.6bn.
Total money paid to the Federal Transit Administration: $9.4bn, or almost 4x what Amtrak receives.
Total money paid to the Federal Aviation Administration: $14.6bn, or almost 7x what Amtrak receives.
Total money paid to the Federal *HIGHWAY* Administration: $41.3bn, or a touch over 20x what Amtrak receives.
So...cars are already behind by $38.7bn, before we even consider the out-of-pocket costs for train tickets or for owning and operating a car. Add into this: America's rail isn't exactly known worldwide for being efficient, whereas car ownership in America isn't exactly expensive compared to most of Europe. - WhiskeyLemur, on 06/30/2009, -1/+5I'll grant you the first sentence - in places without a public transportation infrastructure, your options are "get a car" or "starve" (or "bum off friends until they drop you," I guess). But I'd like to see actual numbers before I concur with the statement that trains cost more per capita than cars. Take a f'r instance: I commute into NYC from central NJ, and it costs me $340 a month to take the train (would be a little more if I took a bus). If I were to take a car, I would pay that much in parking alone - plus fuel, tolls, and additional car maintenance. I also wouldn't be able to just kick back and read, which is a big deal considering the commute is around 2 hours each way, door-to-door. So to me, trains are much cheaper than cars, but of course that's only the consumer side of it.
The flipside is that even at that I can't get around owning a car - even in NJ, public transportation is woefully limited compared to what's available in Europe. In the American mid-West - forget it. - gloriana232, on 06/26/2009, -1/+5You do realize streets have existed for centuries before cars? They not only facilitate vehicular traffic, but allow people to get from place to place (ingenious!).
And even without cars, streets still need to exist for delivery vehicles and emergency services. - tyeddingston, on 06/26/2009, -5/+9I think it's optional to live there?
- phalanxcronos, on 06/26/2009, -0/+4What about commercial traffic? Can stores still receive deliveries, can florists still delivery or pizza parlors for that matter? What about the local handyman, does he have to haul his table saw onto one of those trams?
- s73v3r, on 06/26/2009, -0/+3I highly doubt that something like this could go through without the support of the people.
- knaps, on 06/26/2009, -1/+4I used to live in Vauban. I definitely wasn't forced to live there. It's by far one of the best places to live in Freiburg. It's an initiative by the green government (our mayor is a green) that couples extremely well with the absolutely fantastic public transit of the main city.
The only reason anyone would ever call it tyranny is because they'd rather see their tax money go into non-green initiatives: Say, for instance, a bloated prison system, increased police spending, defense spending, government bailouts, should I keep going?
So please, next time you find something so worth warning people about, get a clue / maybe don't tell anyone? - inactive, on 06/26/2009, -0/+3I ***** love it.
- s73v3r, on 06/26/2009, -0/+3Last time I bought an appliance, it was delivered for me.
- zacharytelschow, on 06/26/2009, -1/+4Roads are (typically) paid for by gas taxes. This most likely won't affect their tax burden one iota.
- glitchbit, on 06/26/2009, -2/+5And to enforce this new policy we will make use of our police in cars, to ensure if anyone is seen driving a car they will be promptly pulled over so they can impound the car.
Ah communism at its best. - jwafong, on 06/26/2009, -0/+3So.... basically, they are taking steps towards becoming Amish???
- WhiskeyLemur, on 06/30/2009, -1/+4Imagine if you worked in NYC.
Imagine if you worked in Manhattan, specifically.
Imagine if you had to pay $1500-2000 a month for a studio apartment to small that it would be considered a dog-kennel in other parts of the country.
Imagine if the extent of your "garden" was an anemic basil plant wilting in the corner of your kitchen; imagine if the extent of your back-yard is a 5 square feet of concrete that you share with the other 150 people in your apartment building.
Thanks, but no thanks. - zacharytelschow, on 06/26/2009, -2/+5You're not factoring in the tax dollars used to subsidize those trains. By your logic, public education here in the US is cheaper than private education, despite the fact that many private schools operate for less than the $10-$12k per student the public schools cost.
Out of pocket cost != per capita cost
(The trains here in Chicago operate at a loss of ~$25 per passenger per ride, with the difference paid for in tax dollars. I'm sure it's no different in Finland). - lead2thehead, on 06/26/2009, -1/+4Ditto what Zach said. I don't think people realize how far we've come in the past 20 years. Modern, computer controlled, fuel injected cars have sensors built in to make sure that they always burn the optimal amount of fuel, and burn ALL of the fuel so that there any fumes or smoke coming out of your tailpipe, and catalytic converters to take care of the rest. About the only thing coming out of your tail pipe right now is carbon dioxide.
- galvatron13, on 06/26/2009, -0/+2Interesting, but not at all practical on a large scale.
Horse and buggy anyone? - inactive, on 06/26/2009, -0/+2The Germans always make good stuff.
- bobertoq, on 06/27/2009, -0/+2I wish I could live in a town like that. It'd be so peaceful. Life nowadays is too complicated.
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