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An Off-Grid Vertical Farm Concept

ecogeek.org — A new concept from Seattle offering one of the most integrated and interesting approaches that I've seen to date.

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  • BigManOnCampus, on 10/10/2007, -3/+11neat concept... but is is practical? I personally wouldn't mind the vegetables sold to me being grown next to me, that would make me feel better. Harvesting crops on a skyscraper sounds like a tedium that only immigrant labor would do... oh wait, that is what they do.
    • Pilot85, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Mmm, it would have to be much larger than the building shown to offer foods for local business, it seems, but they might be able to sustain the restaurant they talk about in the article. Don't really know without more info.
    • veriix, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Well, as long as it makes you feel better, isn't that what it's all about?
    • altgeeky1, on 10/10/2007, -2/+0"Harvesting crops on a skyscraper sounds like a tedium that only immigrant labor would do... oh wait, that is what they do.".

      The rationale behind "immigrant labor doing things domestic labor won't" is an argument for more imported labor, whether you realize it or not. The benefits of illegal and imported labor are HUGE, including: not paying unemployment insurance, no OSHA, no workman's compensation (if their arm gets ripped out by a machine, cut them a $5,000 check and good riddance), no insurance, no lawsuits about poisonous overspray from crop dusters. On the other hand, the illegal gets to CLAIM NO INCOME and therefore collect more state benefits.

      The market pays what it does for labor is based on demand. Pure and simple. New York sanitation workers probably have a dirtier job than crop harvesting, but are paid well. I'd do it, given sufficient incentive. If suddenly there was competition from $4/hour laborers from Mexico, game over on that job... but it would be VERY wrong to say "Americans don't want to do that kind of work".

      I know plenty of unemployed US-born landscapers and even LICENSED CARPENTERS... out of work because they're competing against welfare funded illegals (as they technically have no income as they are paid cash under the table). Feudal economics can apply to every work field.

      Oh, and vertical farming like this is probably more ripe for automation (assuming that's ever cheaper than disposable laborers).
    • JDRay, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0What about how you replenish the soil on the upper floors? If your answer is, "make compost from food scraps," that only works well for adding to the soil, not taking away the spent stuff. The idea is neat, but I think there are some long-term management issues.
  • dilpil1, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Interesting, but won't it smell?
    • Pilot85, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8As opposed to regular urban stink? Though, i grant you, Seattle doesn't smell too bad compared to some cities.
      • NYC10004, on 10/10/2007, -4/+0Not true. When it doesn't rain, Seattle really does stink. Mostly of the homeless and thier urine. I'm from NYC and I was shocked at the smell.
        • Cougaboy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4But prefacing your statement with "when it doesn't rain" is like saying "when New York isn't crowded..."
    • zengonzo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Having more greenery in any city would do wonders for air purity.
    • bejayel, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1No probably not. The University of Saskatchewan has afarm right in the middle of the city and it doesnt smell untill they bring the cows in and its really hot.
  • Madcowz, on 10/10/2007, -9/+0I wouldn't want to eat any food that was grown in an urban environment due to the pollution. Like never picking berries from the side of the road.

    Apart from that it is an interesting idea.
    • ThE0eNiGmA, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1It's called a closed environment... or greenhouses. While you might not want to eat something grown on a rooftop in the open air, a greenhouse can use filtered air to prevent contamination.
      • Madcowz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Oh.

        I can't see the greenhouses in the first image.

        The lower ones certainly do have glass over some of the growing areas, but not the top. The food will taste of petrol fumes as anyone who has picked from the side of a road will know.

  • Ouze, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6smells.. like awesome!
  • Matrixsta, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5Just cause i'm a digger, doesn't mean i'm a farmer!
  • julienbh, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2I love the concept. Hope it makes its way to all major cities, in one form or the other.
    Go innovation!
  • UrbanVoyeur, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Could be a good source of bio-fuel crops.
    • Veeoh, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1i dont think its big enough...
    • mstoneburner, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1No, no it couldn't. You couldn't grow enough corn on that thing to provide it's own energy, much less anything else.
      • JosephStalin, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Yeah, you definitely couldn't grow enough corn on that. Though corn is a rather poor choice for producing fuel. A better plant for fuel would be hemp.
  • Pilot85, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I'd eat there. Hell, think of how fresh the food in the restaurant would be. Mmm... fresh chicken.
  • gummih, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5It's the Meatrix!
  • FuzzyBunny, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Very cool design. I do have a few problems with it though. First of all it claims that all electricity will be produced by solar panels with extra energy stored as hydrogen to be used in more energy intensive months. The problem is that Hydrogen, while good at storing electrical energy compactly, is terribly inefficient, especially when you're producing it from water which seems to be the plan here. As a result, hydrogen is a great solution for mobile energy storage but a horrible one if you're just storing energy in a stationary place like this.

    Secondly, I question just how economical food production from such a building would be, primarily because of the value of the property. From the looks of the drawing you could fit 2 or 3 times as many apartments in the same space without the crop space. Are landowners in urban areas really going to sacrifice those rents? My guess is probably not. It's a good concept but it will likely be a very long time before we see anything incorporating all of these concepts in the real world.
    • bejayel, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2Then you need to consider how rapidly expanding cities are destroying farm land. So, if there is no farms left, where do you suppose you'll get your food from?
      If you say the grocery store...
      • Yazilliclick, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I think you miss points completely. If this building has only 50% of the apartments that a regular building would have in the same area than that means you now need two of these to match one other so more farmland is consumed. That's ignoring the impracticalities of this type of structure.
    • Veeoh, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1unless its built in existing "brown field" / industrial area when housing isnt an issue.
    • maffiou, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Don't know about hydrogen, so trust you on this one...
      Environemental and economical cost of transportation is increasing, things being produced further away from where they will be eventually consumed. The solution of producing and recycling locally makes sense in my opinion. Sure the initial cost is there, but It's viable in the long run...
  • godmode, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Japan did it first! i remember they talked about it on Diggnation.
  • AlexCequea, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0Nice, this is the type of evolution we are going through. Working with nature instead of against it.
    Support the Public Meditation Project! http://PublicMeditationProject.blogspot.com
  • DreKor, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2So, is this supposed to be hydroponic or what? If going with a dirt farm model, what's the plan for recycling the exhausted soil after a few years?
  • DiggOrNotToDigg, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Very interesting idea..but i wonder what the cost of fruits and vegetables are gonna be?
    • Veeoh, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1hopefully cheaper than fruit and veg that needs to be "shipped in" to the cities... also less travel means fresher and less CO2 footprint from transit.
    • Bhima, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I think I'd pay a little extra for organic grown in my building or on my block.

      So I don't think price is such a huge deal.
  • vofuse, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Can skinny cows graze on it?
  • Ebacherville, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1I think its a great idea.. mst of our society is 2-3 days away from starvation.. We neeed to be much more self sufficient.. imaging ifthe depression hapens nwadays when most of the population is in large cities that grow no food for them selfs.. The farmers will be able to support themself abut not these large cities of hungy people... You have been warned.
  • HeyBob, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5I like how the 50' trees on the upper levels on have roots a few feet deep!

    Oh ya, and paint everything green too.
  • T8erT0T, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5So if this thing goes ablaze, is it an office fire or a forest fire?
  • flareback, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3um, what about the pollution from all the cars. Wouldn't the plants absorb it, which would get passed into you if you ate it?
    • SpyDerMann, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2With efficient filters and catalytic converters, the plants will just get the usual CO2.
  • arjie, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Reminds me of Netstorm for no reason other than the idea of grass high in the sky. I like the idea in the middle of the city, it would sort of double as part of what a park would do too. I really love green trees and plants, so walking through the city and seeing plants growing up on the 3rd floor would rock. By the way, anyone know what that poster on the side of the building is? Also, though it says it won the design competition, does anyone there know if the city actually will follow up on this and make sure it's built? The city or whoever is in charge, that is.
  • Chewie67, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I love seeing this stuff. There may be a ton of space on this planet, but it gets more and more crowded every day. We're fortunate here in the US to have a huge amount of free space for farming, but in places like Tokyo and Hong Kong, this would be an extremely compelling idea.
    I hope it actually gets built.
  • BufordT, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1"But, in some ways, there are solution sets that could be considered a Silver BB."
    Silver BB? Who the hell came up with that one. Why can't they just say silver bullet?
    • govsucks, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Bullets and guns are bad you fool ;)
      • besiegedbybush, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0"Silver Bullet" suggets an approach that will fully solve a problem. Actually, the entire idea "Silver BB" is that there is no Silver Bullet / no single solution to America's (the globes) energy challenges, but an awful lot of solutions. When people make that point, they then sometimes use the term 'Silver BB' or 'Silver Buckshot'.
  • Petrarch1603, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2oh yeah seattle gets lots of sunlight for the solar panels
  • BufordT, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Dugg for the three story American Gothic painting.
  • cplusplus, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Now, some people care about how far away food comes from. Soon we'll have to be concerned about what altitude it comes from!
  • SolsPolaris, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1It's pretty pathetic that this is what it's coming to. I'm so glad I don't live in a city.
  • kelpdip, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1So the apartment building that would have gone there is now... where the farm was? And all the occupants will have to drive into the city to go to work/shop/school. Ok.
  • SpyDerMann, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Reminds me of the hanging gardens in Babylon. You know, one of the old 7 wonders...
  • SlowOnTheUptake, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I can imagine this working if they used it to grow hemp.
  • nubi78, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Good luck with that. I'll stick with my medium sized town in the middle of farm land in Iowa. Our skies are clear, traffic is light and life is good.
  • sparkysko, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1.
  • sparkysko, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1This is dumb. The majority of the land in the world is uninhabitated. There is no global shortage of land for farming. Sure, some countries might be crowded, and they might have a need for this, however, they're going to get their food a heck of alot cheaper from another country. I'm sure anyone can grow food in an inner city if they toss enough money at it.
  • govsucks, on 10/10/2007, -2/+0Finally, lefties using their brains for something that might actually benefit society instead of hobble it! I like it, keep using those brains to create tangible ideas instead of forcing non tangible Utopian ideas on everyone and we might get someplace. Contrary to the beliefs of most, a true conservative cares about careful conservation of energy and wise use of resources. The rest are just jerks that call themselves conservative but don't really believe in it. My personal dream home is a earth shelter, with solar and water power generation and a natural septic system. When you see it from a distance it looks like a grassy hill, but its actually a home that is so conservative in its use of resources that it will put power back onto the grid and take none for itself. You may all poo poo capitalism, but capitalism by its very nature is the conservative use of resources that have alternative uses...and true capitalism will naturally lead to the conservation of resources and new technologies just like this out of the pure greed of efficient resource usage.
  • djbittner, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0You got to love the humor of the designers to place "American Gothic" on the wall of the building.
  • MrSteamTank, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2This is a nice idealist building. Unfortunately, these buildings simply aren't practical at all.

    I'm from Ottawa and we had this wonderful "environmental" idea called the "green belt". A ring of forests around the city to "beautify" it. Now that the city is starting to spill out of the green belt we see how awful it truly is. The traffic is horrid because everyone has to drive an extra 10-15 minutes to get anywhere, the transit system is incredibly inefficient and expensive due to longer travel distances(thus making cars even more desirable), road maintenance is much higher due to the increased amount of roads, and overall it's just a mess for everyone involved.
    The city doesn't even have a million people and some people have to drive almost an hour to get to work!!! Can you imagine how awful it will be when the city hits 2-3 million?
  • Dreamsmithe, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0The Californians are just looking for a better way to grow pot and to gouge consumers for "organic" products.
  • ZenFountain, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Cuba already does urban agriculture, all they do is throw plastic bins and buckets anywhere that has light and grow food organically. Peak oil shock isn't going to come overnight like it did in Cuba with collapse of the Soviet Union, but we should certainly start thinking and planning for the possibility that one day mechanized agriculture won't be so easy if we don't have the oil to do it. Some figures:

    1900 - 41 percent of workforce employed in agriculture
    1930 - 21.5 percent of workforce employed in agriculture
    1945 - 16 percent of the total labor force employed in agriculture
    1970 - 4 percent of employed labor force worked in agriculture
    2002 - 1.9 percent of employed labor force worked in agriculture

    The "green revolution" of mechanized farming, chemical fertilizers and feedlot meat has been very good for our economy, freeing up labor for other things, but it's unsustainable. Most people don't know where the food they eat comes for these days or how it was raised. The system has been turned completely upside down with agribusiness run amok.
    • RobertSheets, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0you fail to mention that the work force has grown vastly in those years and the amount of farm land has not changed much, if anything gotten smaller. Also, I don't think we are exactly running out of farms.
  • rvroman, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1this is one of the dumber things Ive ever read. Seattle is in Washington State, which Im sure has oodles of unutilized arable land, and in any case its next door to IDAHO, which Im sure is easier to transport food from, than grow it downtown.
  • fratdaddy, on 10/18/2007, -1/+0There'd better be weed somewhere on that thing
  • fixedcoma, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Kind of like stacking RAM on top of one another in your computer!
  •  

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