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America's dirty little oil secret: Plastic Bottles and Bags
businessshrink.biz — America consumes 31.2 billion water bottles a year taking 17.6 million barrels of oil to create them. Enough to fuel 1.5 million cars for a year. America consumes 100 billion plastic bags a year taking 12 million barrels of oil. World figures? 154.3 billion water bottles and 500 billion - 1 trillion bags=147.4 - 207.4 million barrels of oil a year.
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- Bukowsky, on 04/26/2008, -13/+168Recycle your plastic people! The one's with a 1 or 2 symbol on the side/bottom. Even if you don't believe in "global warming" why wouldn't you want to recycle your empty Milk Carton or 20oz. Soda Bottle? At least to just conserve oil, and help keep gas prices is lower.
- KevinRWright, on 04/26/2008, -1/+90Good initiative, but you have some facts wrong. It's not just #'s 1 and 2 that can be recycled, they all can be. Not everywhere accepts the other numbers, but they can be recycled, you just have to do a little leg work to find your local place that takes them all.
Anyway, recycling should be your last step. First you should reduce you consumption. Stop buying plastic water bottles. Just buy a nice reusable plastic bottle or better yet a metal one, and then use a filtration system on your tap. fill your ***** up at home!
The next step after reducing is reusing. All those plastic bags you already have, keep reusing those things, dont just throw them out.
Reduce/Reuse/Recycle- mrsteveman1, on 04/26/2008, -7/+4The reusable ones sometimes don't clean easily just like you can't really wash the disposable ones. They do make microban bottles though.
Someone needs to start a business to make recycling more widespread i think, it shouldn't be so difficult to find places to recycle plastic.- mnky9800n, on 04/27/2008, -0/+4You must have never seen a nalgene bottle before. 1000 mL of water inside a virtually indestructible container. Did I mention dishwasher safe? The reusable ones are always better.
- InsanePervert, on 04/27/2008, -0/+6Better make sure that you are using a newer Nalgene bottle free of "Bisphenol-A", especially if you are putting it in the dishwasher. See http://www.nalgene-outdoor.com/
- mnky9800n, on 04/27/2008, -0/+4You must have never seen a nalgene bottle before. 1000 mL of water inside a virtually indestructible container. Did I mention dishwasher safe? The reusable ones are always better.
- PaulOwen, on 04/26/2008, -1/+2Regardless of how much we recycle, oil will always be mined from the cheapest source, at lowest cost for maximum profit for ever, until it is all gone. Such is the nature of a fungible resource.
http://starbus.com/fungible/- mrsteveman1, on 04/26/2008, -1/+2Thats why you make something else cheaper. This is why i don't care if the price of oil shoots up, something else will become cheap enough to be practical. Just the other day i bought water bottles made from corn at the same store i always go to, they weren't more expensive either.
- 3tcp, on 04/27/2008, -1/+3Higher gas prices would make the price of plastic lower. Plastic is a byproduct of making gasoline from oil so if they're making more gasoline because it's worth more then there will be a greater supply of plastic which wouldn't require any change in the demand for plastic.
- smurfsahoy, on 04/27/2008, -1/+3Its more expensive because the supply is DOWN, not up. So fewer byproducts, and more expensive plastic.
- 3tcp, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2The price of gasoline is through the roof and refining capacity is maxed out, what makes you think that supply is down?
If the price of plastic is up then it's because of inflation, exchange rate fluctuations and increased demand... probably in China & India, not decreased supply (I don't know if it said that plastic prices were up in the article, I stopped reading when I realized the author didn't know what he was talking about) - smurfsahoy, on 04/27/2008, -1/+1Because the US hasn't built a new refinery in ages (or maybe one or two), yet our demand is still climbing steadily. Thus, even though refining capacity is maxxed out (which just keeps supply steady, not rising to match demand), demand is still significantly greater than supply.
Looking at it in terms of refining capacity is just weird/silly. Look at straight up supply/demand of the product itself... - smurfsahoy, on 04/27/2008, -1/+1I guess you said demand is up in your comment, 3tcp, we may be in agreement there. The point is that demand up or supply (relatively) down, whatever, none of it would mean cheaper plastic bottles.
There's also a decent amount of speculation on oil. - 3tcp, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Your instincts are right but since plastic is a byproduct it's production would not fall unless the production of gasoline fell. Since production will not fall then the price will not go up unless demand increases. There is no reason why to believe that an increase in the price of oil will cause an increase in the amount of plastic that people want. Demand may increase, but the price & demand for oil will not be responsible for it
- smurfsahoy, on 04/27/2008, -1/+1Of course oil demand isn't directly responsible for plastic demand. But they may well be both spawned by the same third variable somewhere. Increased population? Some sort of encouragement of consumerism rising somehow? I don't know. I feel like it's unlikely though that they are entirely unrelated. People who burn through plastic bags like it's their job are probably mostly the same people who buy SUVs for no reason, etc.
- mrsteveman1, on 04/27/2008, -1/+1If the price of oil shoots up, people will use less gasoline, and eventually some other form of fuel will be cheaper and used more often, at which point plastic will not be able to simply ride on the back of gasoline production, which would make oil based plastic more expensive. Oil based plastic is cheap right now, thats why its being used most often. If something else becomes cheaper than oil based plastic it will get used instead.
- BossKey, on 04/27/2008, -1/+1"This is why i don't care if the price of oil shoots up, something else will become cheap enough to be practical."
That is so the wrong attitude. When oil shoots up, its substitutes don't become cheaper or even "cheap enough." They only become cheaper _relative to oil_. Oil substitutes are not bringing the price of auto fuel back down to 35 cents per gallon, they're just potentially delaying $4/gallon oil.
Those tar sands in Canada are still expensive to get oil out of. They are still a crappy option. The only reason we extract fuel there is not because they suddenly became un-crappy, but because oil itself became even more crap-tastic.
Think of it as a warning sign. If these formerly ugly, undesirable, expensive alternatives start looking good to you...you're in trouble, like a man in an awful bar with beer goggles on. - mrsteveman1, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2You are being short sighted. Reducing the amount of oil used has multiple benefits, both in reducing the dependency of the U.S infrastructure on a foreign resource, reducing the amount of distributed pollution released in small amounts by millions of cars all over the place, etc
I didn't say other things got cheaper, i said they became cheap enough to be practical, yes relative to oil because thats what we are talking about, whereas if oil is still cheap those things are not practical. - thomashauk, on 04/27/2008, -1/+1Shame that you all have ot backward, Plastics are the primary products, petrolium spirit is the by product.
- mrsteveman1, on 04/26/2008, -1/+2Thats why you make something else cheaper. This is why i don't care if the price of oil shoots up, something else will become cheap enough to be practical. Just the other day i bought water bottles made from corn at the same store i always go to, they weren't more expensive either.
- nitrojunky24, on 04/27/2008, -0/+6please buy less bottled water you would be amazed how much of this stuff we sell at Publix supermarkets (south east chain) sell 24 packs of spring water like crazy. its just ***** water. sorry it bothers me. not to think all the energy we would save having to haul this stuff to the store I mean we get whole pallots full of just water about once every week or so think about that next time your buying that 24 pack.
- smurfsahoy, on 04/27/2008, -0/+3There's really no excuse for it. Buy a brita filter for goodness sake. Or if you want to filter your water as purely as you possibly can while still maintaining proper nutrients, etc., cleaner than any mountain spring, you can do it with two plastic buckets, some sand with a schmutzdecke, and a plastic pipe.
- mrsteveman1, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Or you could just distill it, or use a reverse osmosis filter. Purity isn't why people buy bottled water, its the bottle.
- smurfsahoy, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1distillation makes your water very unhealthy, as you will begin to get certain mineral deficiencies, etc. It also tastes *****. I don't know about reverse osmosis, but I'm guessing it has similar problems.
- skinjester, on 04/27/2008, -2/+1but... I don't shop at Publix...
- Twee, on 04/27/2008, -1/+1I'd be afraid of finding Pubic hair in the food purchased at Publix market..
- smurfsahoy, on 04/27/2008, -0/+3There's really no excuse for it. Buy a brita filter for goodness sake. Or if you want to filter your water as purely as you possibly can while still maintaining proper nutrients, etc., cleaner than any mountain spring, you can do it with two plastic buckets, some sand with a schmutzdecke, and a plastic pipe.
- mrsteveman1, on 04/26/2008, -7/+4The reusable ones sometimes don't clean easily just like you can't really wash the disposable ones. They do make microban bottles though.
- aliengoods, on 04/26/2008, -28/+23Why wouldn't we recycle? Mother Earth has been throwing tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, volcanoes, and earthquakes at us for years. Now it's time for payback!
- Rikkochet, on 04/26/2008, -9/+25That's the mentality of the drunk who punched the wall and it hurt his hand, so he's going to get even with that wall by hitting it harder.
- mrsteveman1, on 04/27/2008, -1/+2Yea but he taught that ***** wall a lesson. That ***** dropped one to many picture frames.
- toxicshok, on 04/26/2008, -2/+16I believe thats called SARCASM
- FreakyT, on 04/27/2008, -5/+2Digging him down? Looks like someone didn't catch the Simpsons reference.
- Supurcell, on 04/27/2008, -0/+5In their defense, it was a badly paraphrased Simpsons quote.
- senkmajer, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2@aliengoods:
Save yourself some aggravation and make sure you put a "/sarcasm" tag on anything that is not explicitly spelled out as humor.
...oh, and I guffawed out loud, even without the tag.- mrsteveman1, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1i see your guffaw and raise you a roflmao
- aliengoods, on 05/02/2008, -0/+1Thanks for the advice. Apparently blatantly obvious sarcasm isn't enough. It still needs to be tagged.
- Iwantawii, on 04/27/2008, -1/+3There's something beautiful about not using the "/sarcasm" tag and watching the bury storm ensue. If you're gonna go, go all out.
- badjoke, on 04/27/2008, -3/+2We need to slap the earth around a bit. Show her that she's our bitch.
- Rikkochet, on 04/26/2008, -9/+25That's the mentality of the drunk who punched the wall and it hurt his hand, so he's going to get even with that wall by hitting it harder.
- vault, on 04/26/2008, -19/+3Kind of a hassle to recycle, really.
- xstarsprinklesx, on 04/26/2008, -1/+16Yeah, because it's such a pain to put something in one bin instead of the other.
- vault, on 04/26/2008, -13/+4I don't like having two bins for aesthetic reasons.
- DarkShroud, on 04/27/2008, -2/+13Now you're just being an ass.
- AgentMull, on 04/27/2008, -1/+6Now you're just being an ass.
I can't digg that up enough. - mrsteveman1, on 04/27/2008, -0/+3You should try the Apple approach they use with one button mice.
One bin, depending on how hard you throw stuff at it, it goes to one of 2 different places :D - BJLStorm, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1You just had to work Apple in there somewhere, didn't you?
- vault, on 04/26/2008, -13/+4I don't like having two bins for aesthetic reasons.
- xstarsprinklesx, on 04/26/2008, -1/+16Yeah, because it's such a pain to put something in one bin instead of the other.
- livejamie, on 04/26/2008, -21/+13Recycling is *****:
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=recycling%20 ...- Rikkochet, on 04/26/2008, -4/+20P&T didn't address the point that the cost of oil is going up, making plastic slowly grow more expensive and adding even more pressure to gas prices.
Recycling isn't about things being cheaper, it's about not wasting everything, which is tragically burned right into the North American psyche more than anywhere in the world.- insllvn, on 04/26/2008, -1/+30Don't recycle, reduce consumption. The man who buys 30 bottles of water a week and recycles them has done more to hurt the environment than the man who buys a Brita water filter and fills his own reusable bottle to bring water with him. It is not our failure to recycle what we use that is ruining the environment, it is our entire culture of consumerism and consumption. Why does every piece of electronics I buy come wrapped and sealed in plastic? Why does my iPod (disclaimer: I have only owned one, that is how long it took for me to get fed up with it) come with no way to replace only the parts that break, no way to replace the battery? So that I will buy the next one, the newer one. Buy only things that will last and value those investments.
- mrsteveman1, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1If it were easy to replace parts on something like the new 3g nano, it would be 5x bigger and unusable.
Easily serviceable parts aren't the only consideration when designing products, and with iPods other things are more important, like size and durability.
- mrsteveman1, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1If it were easy to replace parts on something like the new 3g nano, it would be 5x bigger and unusable.
- regeya, on 04/26/2008, -1/+2Amen. I carry my water with me (why would I want untreated water that's been sitting stagnant on a grocer's shelf for several months? Eww...) , drink way less soft drinks, and generally try to eschew all the nonsense.
Yeah, I have this 160GB USB2 hard drive sitting here, and I swear I think there's more plastic in the packaging--that's so stupid. I realize the packaging is designed to deter thieves from opening the package and pocketing the merchandise, but that's a heck of a lot of plastic designed to go into the landfill... - linuxpenguin, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1I just thought I would point out that your second point negates your first one.
"P&T didn't address the point that the cost of oil is going up" yet "Recycling isn't about things being cheaper".
Not to mention, all that machinery they were using isn't magical - it needs gas and oil, too - or at least electricity, which the landfill can produce.
- insllvn, on 04/26/2008, -1/+30Don't recycle, reduce consumption. The man who buys 30 bottles of water a week and recycles them has done more to hurt the environment than the man who buys a Brita water filter and fills his own reusable bottle to bring water with him. It is not our failure to recycle what we use that is ruining the environment, it is our entire culture of consumerism and consumption. Why does every piece of electronics I buy come wrapped and sealed in plastic? Why does my iPod (disclaimer: I have only owned one, that is how long it took for me to get fed up with it) come with no way to replace only the parts that break, no way to replace the battery? So that I will buy the next one, the newer one. Buy only things that will last and value those investments.
- unreg, on 04/27/2008, -1/+5While recycling is certainly a great way for us to reduce consumption (recycled aluminum requires 5% of the energy needed to produce virgin material), the consumer is not the reason for the run away cost of oil. While consumption has risen, it's hardly predicated an almost 500% increase in oil. The drop in the dollars value doesn't equate on a percentage basis. The is no shortage.......anybody seen a closed station?
Herd mentality has taken over, pure speculative greed at this point. A couple of row boats get shot at in the Persian Gulf, $3 per barrel increase.
Like the housing market, it will eventually crumble like a house of cards. Question is, will the economies of the world be in ruins by then?- mrsteveman1, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1I sure hope so, then the United Federation of Planets can take over
- Rikkochet, on 04/26/2008, -4/+20P&T didn't address the point that the cost of oil is going up, making plastic slowly grow more expensive and adding even more pressure to gas prices.
- Nitrodist88, on 04/26/2008, -4/+8I say don't recycle plastic. Just don't use products that use it in the first place.
- masterm1nd, on 04/26/2008, -1/+14Thats not even possible short of living in the woods consuming nothing but nature. Are you by chance on a computer?
- Nitrodist88, on 04/26/2008, -3/+2Fair point. I guess what I meant to say is that we should cut down on things that use plastic unnecessarily, such as plastic bottles and plastic bags, by not using them at all and using their alternatives e.g. cloth grocery bags, cardboard (carton) milk.
- Twee, on 04/27/2008, -2/+1My MacBook Pro has an aluminum alloy case. It's made of metal, not of plastic.
- linuxpenguin, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2I don't think that's a good idea. There's plenty of times when plastic is much more useful than its alternatives.
I think that instead, we should realize the usefulness of things. People buy 30-packs of water bottles, drink one every day, and then throw it all away or recycle it rather than refilling it from the tap. If you refill them and use the same bottle for a couple days, you save the environment, you save money, and you save yourself from having to go recycle all those bottles all the time.
People also buy tiny garbage bags for their smaller trash cans, and throw away the plastic bag they got when they bought it which is approximately the same size. They'd save the environment and their money if they just saved the plastic bags from stores, and then used them as garbage bags for these smaller receptacles - especially since they're throwing the bags away either way.
- masterm1nd, on 04/26/2008, -1/+14Thats not even possible short of living in the woods consuming nothing but nature. Are you by chance on a computer?
- tj111, on 04/26/2008, -10/+34Why do you think Marijuana/Hemp was outlawed in the early 20th century? Hemp based plastics were almost twice as durable AND were biodegradable, which proved a huge threat to the oil industries. Also, hemp based paper (which the constitution is written on) can be grown in fields renewed yearly, as opposed to trees which take years to grow. Moral of the story: The oil companies screwed up the world in more ways then is immediately apparent.
- kakwakas, on 04/26/2008, -8/+2Only the rough draft was on help paper.
- unreg, on 04/27/2008, -3/+9Somebody has been using a little too much hemp.
- 3tcp, on 04/27/2008, -2/+2How much more energy does it take to turn a weed into plastic than to turn petroleum into plastic? As long as we're already refining oil for gasoline it is the most environmentally friendly source for plastic.
- elipabst, on 04/27/2008, -3/+7It's not so much the energy required It's that for every pound of plastic created from hemp over 400 bags of Cheeto's are consumed in the process.
- unreg, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1And those Cheeto bags are made of plastic. Its self-fulfilling.
- smotpoker, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2Doesn't supply/demand mean a commodity gets cheaper the more available it is? Without using oil for plastic, there is more available for gasoline, which makes the gasoline cheaper and more plentiful compared to when like half or whatever is being used for plastic
This would also produce a viable job market producing/refining hemp- unreg, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1You'd think oil prices wouldn't be escalating either, given the level of supply currently on the market and the obvious reduction is consumer usage.
But the herd mentality of the market is in play nowdays.
- unreg, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1You'd think oil prices wouldn't be escalating either, given the level of supply currently on the market and the obvious reduction is consumer usage.
- eclectro, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1I bet that they could do the same thing they do in Brazil with the sugar cane. I.e burn the parts of the hemp plant that they can't use (perhaps the root) and use that to generate the energy for the plastic from hemp. I suppose if they needed more hemp to burn, they could grow more.
- Twee, on 04/27/2008, -1/+1But.. burning hemp gets you high.
- elipabst, on 04/27/2008, -3/+7It's not so much the energy required It's that for every pound of plastic created from hemp over 400 bags of Cheeto's are consumed in the process.
- linuxpenguin, on 04/27/2008, -5/+1More durable and biodegradable? Those two shouldn't go hand in hand, if you ask me - if it's going to turn into soil, then I don't need it to last, and if I need it to last, I don't want it to turn into soil. That's probably why they don't use it - the durable property would be useful, as would the biodegradable property. Together they make something decidedly useless.
If you don't mind me asking. . . where would they get the oil to operate the machines that make this plastic, if not from the oil companies?- smotpoker, on 04/27/2008, -0/+3Paper is biodegradable yet lasts for a long time (if properly maintained)...
"where would they get the oil to operate the machines that make this plastic, if not from the oil companies?"
Hemp?- unreg, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Grease renderings from the local slaughter house.
- smotpoker, on 04/27/2008, -0/+3Paper is biodegradable yet lasts for a long time (if properly maintained)...
- ShugNinx21, on 04/26/2008, -3/+54Cars don't run on crude oil. Crude Oil which is what is pulled from the ground and sold in the barrel is refined and split up into different byproducts for different uses. So out of one barrel of crude a little is split into gasoline, diesel fuel, asphalt base, heating oil, kerosene, liquefied petroleum gas, and other components some of which are used to make plastics. you can't change the ratio and decide to get more gasoline out of the same barrel.
So I fail to see how using the other byproducts of crude oil to make plastics takes fuel away from the market. Other than the fuel they use in shipping costs and production. And if that's the argument then there are plenty of things in the world that aren't needed but fuel is wasted to produce and transport them. You don't create plastics instead of gasoline when refining, you get both from the process.- chalkboy, on 04/26/2008, -0/+7I did not know that. Thanks!
- UTKEngineer, on 04/26/2008, -0/+24Exactly why I buried this as inaccurate.
People really need to stop and think. Thanks for putting it succinctly into perspective.- unreg, on 04/27/2008, -1/+4Actually you can change the ratio through the processes known as cracking and unification to manipulate the number of hydrocarbons in the chain.
- UTKEngineer, on 04/27/2008, -0/+6Cracking is basically heating the crap out of crude oil. Yes, in part this takes longer chain hydrocarbons and makes them shorter. However, it also increases the degree of branched and star bonds as well as removing any double and triple bonds. This basically devalues the product and isn't done to any great degree.
I'm assuming by "unification" you mean oligimerization or polymerization. Again, yes, this is done, however it's done after the crude oil has been through the cracker and it's only done on very short HC chains (
- UTKEngineer, on 04/27/2008, -0/+6Cracking is basically heating the crap out of crude oil. Yes, in part this takes longer chain hydrocarbons and makes them shorter. However, it also increases the degree of branched and star bonds as well as removing any double and triple bonds. This basically devalues the product and isn't done to any great degree.
- UTKEngineer, on 04/27/2008, -0/+4Well, that auto refresh sucked.
as I was saying, short chain ( < 4 carbons) with alpha or beta double/triple bonds. These chemicals aren't used to make gasoline.
Every barrel of crude has everything from road tar to methane in it. And while you can tweak the products by a couple weight percent through specialty catalysts, you can't dial in any one product to the exclusion of all else. You're always gonna get a lot of everything.- unreg, on 04/27/2008, -1/+2Correct. But it can be manipulated to some extent. And as we become more and more technically savy, we can squeeze more of what's really needed out of that barrel.
- 3tcp, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1It will be replace gasoline with ethanol than to try and turn vasoline and road tar into gasoline.
- jaxcs, on 04/27/2008, -1/+1Not being in the industry or a chemical engineer, I can't validate your claims but what you say is rather unbelievable. I can buy the idea that from each barrel of oil, not all of it or even most of it can be used to make solely one substance. Where you loose me is when you suggest that the plastic industry inevitable because it makes the best and most practical use of a oil based chemical goo. Is plastics literally the only use for the inadvertently created goo? Does this goo represent the final result of oil refining or can this material be further processed into other materials? Does the plastics industry itself make a demand of raw materials such that oil processing plants actually tune their processing toward maximizing the creation of the base materials for plastics?
- unreg, on 04/27/2008, -1/+4Actually you can change the ratio through the processes known as cracking and unification to manipulate the number of hydrocarbons in the chain.
- userperson, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2Quick yer yappin' and help me torch this S.U.V. /S
You can yammer on about your 'theories' when we get back to the commune. /S
- chlyon, on 04/27/2008, -4/+8Go back to glass bottles America . The arabs have lots of sand you can have another war for the sand :)
- linuxpenguin, on 04/27/2008, -3/+1Okay.
-- America - nedzeve, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Aside for the racist trolling, you're correct about glass.
- userperson, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1I think we should go back to using pouches made of animal skins. Me and the Mrs. have 5 back at our cave.
- linuxpenguin, on 04/27/2008, -3/+1Okay.
- lusenok2, on 04/27/2008, -0/+6Recycling of plastics is not about saving energy and (surprise! surprise!) saving oil. It is not even about saving virgin material because plastics decompose easily and cannot be processed into the same product (only in much lower quality one).
It is about not putting in landfills stuff which cannot decompose naturally. It is about not having plastic bags hanging on each tree branch within 3 mile radius of landfill.
Recycling of plastics is total waste of energy. But we have to do this in order not to pollute too much.
"Recycling" let people feel good about their bad habits.- linuxpenguin, on 04/27/2008, -2/+1No we don't have to recycle plastic! Throw that ***** away! Paper too. The gases released by decomposition get burned and turned into electricity at the landfill.
- nedzeve, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1I think you missed his point. The fact is, plastic is not a good candidate for recycling. It's better to not use it in the first place. Glass bottles and aluminum cans can be recycled back into glass bottles and aluminum cans; plastic bottles can only be turned into less versatile plastic like park benches and playground equipment (far less demand than that of beverages).
Avoiding waste before it starts is more important than recycling.- linuxpenguin, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Either that or you can just fill the bottles back up and drink out of them again. When you're done with them, hey, we need park benches and playground equipment still. By the way these plastics and the rubber soles of your shoes are sometimes used to create court floors (ie, basketball courts and tennis courts) and other things too - and don't forget, playground equipment isn't just swingsets, it's also all those little playhouses and such that kids like to play in. I imagine the same plastic goes into Wiffle Balls and bats, Power Wheels, tricycles, and other kids' outdoor toys - they all seem to be made out of basically the same plastic as the playground stuff.
- nedzeve, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1I think you missed his point. The fact is, plastic is not a good candidate for recycling. It's better to not use it in the first place. Glass bottles and aluminum cans can be recycled back into glass bottles and aluminum cans; plastic bottles can only be turned into less versatile plastic like park benches and playground equipment (far less demand than that of beverages).
- linuxpenguin, on 04/27/2008, -2/+1No we don't have to recycle plastic! Throw that ***** away! Paper too. The gases released by decomposition get burned and turned into electricity at the landfill.
- kosser, on 04/27/2008, -3/+2u dumb noob, recycling would never create lower gas prices haha i can't believe how dumb people are if you think that's true. The reason our oil is so bad is because our dollar is weak.
- smotpoker, on 04/27/2008, -3/+1Doesn't supply/demand mean a commodity gets cheaper the more available it is? Without using oil for plastic, there is more available for gasoline, which makes the gasoline cheaper and more plentiful compared to when like half or whatever is being used for plastic I would think.
Saudi #1: Oh no! Our oil sales just decreased by 23%!! We already budgeted that money off or whatever the correct term is! However will we compensate?
Saudi #2: The americans invested in some new hemp-plastic technologies. They already built two plants and are planning to make more. They say our oil is too expensive! Our only two options are jack up prices to get as much as we can asap or give them a better deal so that they aren't in such a big hurry to build new plants. If we play our cards right, we could keep them dependent on us for another decade or so and still keep a decent profit...
That's how I'd see it going down anyway... mind you I'm no economist, businessman or foreign relations expert :P- pjf00, on 04/27/2008, -1/+2you're right, you are no expert, because that statement would be true in a free, or relatively free market. however, OPEC controls their output and as a result they control the price, so in reality, any gain that we make in the reduction of oil consumption as a result of recycling could easily be matched by a reduction in output. also, the demand for oil is so inelastic, and hemp oil will not likely be much of a viable option for all of our cars and power plants that rely on oil
- smotpoker, on 04/27/2008, -3/+1Doesn't supply/demand mean a commodity gets cheaper the more available it is? Without using oil for plastic, there is more available for gasoline, which makes the gasoline cheaper and more plentiful compared to when like half or whatever is being used for plastic I would think.
- NYankee2003, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Penn & Teller on recycling http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-144439167 ...
- KevinRWright, on 04/26/2008, -1/+90Good initiative, but you have some facts wrong. It's not just #'s 1 and 2 that can be recycled, they all can be. Not everywhere accepts the other numbers, but they can be recycled, you just have to do a little leg work to find your local place that takes them all.
- screenwalker, on 04/26/2008, -2/+33Still remember the 21st century waterfall - a visualization how few of the plastic bottles in the US are recycled
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZbTXDkrD1o- jmpeagle, on 04/26/2008, -2/+5not everyone has access to plastic recycling. The waste disposal companies that work in our area will only pick up paper products, aluminum, and glass. You get fined for putting in plastic. You would have to drive 20 miles to deposit your own plastic recycling which is a bigger waste than what would be saved by recycling the plastic.
- stoperror, on 04/26/2008, -1/+10Wow; that's much easier to quantify than a bunch of numbers. Kind of makes you sick...
- shuaigex, on 04/27/2008, -1/+1Rickroll
- DermDoc, on 04/26/2008, -10/+18Wow. I had no idea.
- KargeOfTylenol, on 04/26/2008, -1/+3You would think after all that we've accomplished in this world, we could have found a way to tote our ***** around whilst avoiding the depletion natural resources...
- DarkShroud, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Whatever container we use the materials have to come from somewhere.
- jbnumba1, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1I use tap water through a Brita filter carried around in my nalgene. Saves money, environtment, and you can add ice! =)
- hikaruzero, on 04/26/2008, -1/+2What scares me is that people don't realize the implications of running out of oil. When we run out, it's not just heat and fuel we will need to worry about. We will have no ...
Plastic bags & bottles, packaging materials, styrofoam, pacemakers, safe artificial joints/organs, preservative packaging for foods, siding for houses, wire shielding for power and telephone lines, computer cabling, keyboards & mice ...
Even things like refrigerators, cellphones, televisions, computers, and even paint will suffer because of the unavailability of plastic.- ScottMitchell, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2But keep in mind that we're not going to run out in an instant. That is, we aren't going to go from plenty of oil to no oil in a 24 hour period. As oil supplies dwindle, the costs will start to rise accordingly and a shift will naturally occur such that only more essential oil-based products are manufactured and consumed. In other words, we're going to stop using styrofoam packing peanuts long before plastic-based pacemakers are a thing of the past.
- KibibyteBrain, on 04/26/2008, -0/+5Well, its partially inaccurate. We don't fuel our cars with Crude Oil. Oil is refined into different byproducts. Plastics like these use different byproducts than the "gasoline" density ones that we use for autos. But increased demand of any part of the oil can lead to its overall price increasing, obviously. I'm not sure if such plastics have nearly the effect the lower density products like jet fuel or gas do on pricing yet though.
- 3tcp, on 04/27/2008, -0/+7I came here to say exactly this. Oil produces a lot of things and the demand for oil is primarily driven by the demand for gasoline. Plastic is cheap because we would refine oil for gasoline regardless of the price or demand for plastics. The world has way more petroleum jelly than it wants for the same reason, it's a leftover from the refining process.
1000 plastic bottles doesn't represent stuff that could have been used to run your car. The author seems to have been so busy collecting stats that he forgot to make sure he knew wtf he was talking about.- marcintomasz, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Uneducated people do not read comments. they go with the main stream, OH NO WE HAVE TOO MANY PLASTIC BAGS, when if we don't make bags from the oil, we have to throw the oil away in a landfill or incinerate it anyway since the density of the plastic has one use in and that is all kids of plastic bags.
- 3tcp, on 04/27/2008, -0/+7I came here to say exactly this. Oil produces a lot of things and the demand for oil is primarily driven by the demand for gasoline. Plastic is cheap because we would refine oil for gasoline regardless of the price or demand for plastics. The world has way more petroleum jelly than it wants for the same reason, it's a leftover from the refining process.
- KargeOfTylenol, on 04/26/2008, -1/+3You would think after all that we've accomplished in this world, we could have found a way to tote our ***** around whilst avoiding the depletion natural resources...
- hemantjha, on 04/26/2008, -21/+4I din't have imagined.....Purifing the water is so much costly affair, and making hell for the coming generation
One thing is sure...whenever it comes to themselves, people are worried of there own life...that time they want to leave more....when it comes to other life it hardly matters, and they implied the law there.....sad :(- forsight, on 04/26/2008, -1/+8half of the water in bottles is worse for you than drinking from the tap
- twinklyJesus, on 04/26/2008, -1/+5Only drink the half of the water in the bottle that is good. (hard to do if the good half is at the bottom)
- copypasta, on 04/26/2008, -6/+1HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
- twinklyJesus, on 04/26/2008, -1/+5Only drink the half of the water in the bottle that is good. (hard to do if the good half is at the bottom)
- scimitar91, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1use a different translator next time
- forsight, on 04/26/2008, -1/+8half of the water in bottles is worse for you than drinking from the tap
- kiverson, on 04/26/2008, -9/+14It's societal upbringing. We've been conditioned to just ignore the idea of recycling. And we become conscious of it, but sometimes we just forget. I'm guilty. I like to think I'm going green and being very earth conscious, but there's force of habit every once in a while that causes me to casually toss a bottle of water in a garbage can. It's not right, and I have to work on my own habits, but until we become a fully engulfed society of people aware of the earth they live on, you'll ALWAYS have waste.
- bardo77n, on 04/27/2008, -5/+5Conditioned to ignore recycling? You've got to be kidding! I remember recycling being a big part of my "education" at the socialist indoctrination camps called public schools. I'm 31, so I've been out school for a while. I'd bet it's recycling has even more of a presence in schools now!
- serinity, on 04/26/2008, -5/+8Eye opening! Look what we are doing to ourselves! We wash our water bottles in the dishwasher and reuse them. I've heard that may not be good health wise. Not sure though....
- dondara, on 04/26/2008, -2/+7Don't re-use them. Especially for children. You can get reusable bottles cheap and they are a safe plastic.
- userperson, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2We can make more children, there's only one earth. /s
- Rikkochet, on 04/26/2008, -3/+11I just carry around a goat's stomach with a stopper in the top and drink out of that. Everyone should do it.
- Chompy, on 04/26/2008, -1/+6That's not a baahd idea.
- twinklyJesus, on 04/26/2008, -1/+1naa-a-a-a-a-a-aa-ah
- Iwantawii, on 04/27/2008, -0/+3epic victory
- 3tcp, on 04/27/2008, -1/+3Have you tried the bladder?
- Chompy, on 04/26/2008, -1/+6That's not a baahd idea.
- StanDevia, on 04/26/2008, -1/+18From Snopes:
Claim: Plastic water bottles have been proved to break down into carcinogenic compounds when reused or frozen.
Status: False.
http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/petbottles.as ...- nonymous666, on 04/26/2008, -2/+6Even if it was true, it would only be a problem if you *stored* your water in them. Using a bottle as a 'cup' to hold water fir a few hours wouldn't cause the water to be come a toxic dump in that time. If the plastic was *that* carcinogenic, I wouldn't even want to touch it
- Iwantawii, on 04/27/2008, -1/+1Dugg for "FALSE."
- jinnie, on 04/27/2008, -1/+0issue comes with heating plastic (especially with acidic or oily food/liquid)... don't do it... even "microwave/dishwasher-safe" plastic is questionable.
- userperson, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Double false? or would that make it true? *shrugs*, another link:
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4060
- fugazied, on 04/27/2008, -2/+2There is scientific evidence that certain plastics contain chemicals which resemble estrogen to the human body. Which of the plastic products are dangerous is another question. I think anything that makes the water 'taste' funny after it has been sitting in it for a short while might be leeching something into the water, dangerous or not. No evidence involved, I think harder plastics might be safer thats just my guess. But if its drinking at home, you should always keep water in glass. Water has a habit of leeching things out of the containers it is kept in, scientists use glass or certain metals for storage of water because the water stays pure.
- jinnie, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1polycarbonate, a "hard" plastic, is the main culprit for the plastic scare (bpa).. softer plastics which tend to give off a "taste" have been found to be "safer". the common sense measure you write about don't apply here.
- dondara, on 04/26/2008, -2/+7Don't re-use them. Especially for children. You can get reusable bottles cheap and they are a safe plastic.
- DeskFlyer, on 04/26/2008, -12/+78My Dad thinks it's stupid to recycle because it costs too much. I had to make him aware that recycling is about conserving natural resources, not saving money.
- NonLeftistDiggr, on 04/26/2008, -15/+10Well except for petroleum, which recycling actually wastes overall through energy use, but who cares about that.
- wageslaven, on 04/26/2008, -9/+14Do you have a reputable citation for that?
- NonLeftistDiggr, on 04/26/2008, -14/+8what are you talking about, you need a pie chart to figure that out? let me first post the picture proving the sky is blue.
And in fact, you're asking me for proof, yet you've never been given any credible proof recycling actually helps, and I know that because it doesn't exist.- Chompy, on 04/26/2008, -6/+5Back in your cage, ignoramus. Does pastor know you have access to non-filtered web content?
- twinklyJesus, on 04/26/2008, -2/+8Hey, Chompy, does Man-Bear-Pig know you're out trolling Digg?
- Rikkochet, on 04/26/2008, -5/+7I need a pie chart because I'm sure you're lying and making excuses for your laziness.
Petroleum use is involved in creating a plastic bottle and transporting it to the end store.
Petroleum use then comes into play to remove the plastic bottle - either to a landfill or to a recycling depot. At this point we're about even (I cede the fact that you now have TWO trucks to carry the plastic bottles to different locations, so really if NOBODY recycled we would use less petroleum there).
Now the extra petroleum use is over - recycled materials need to be manually sorted by humans. That is a cost, not petroleum use and not pollution. We are talking about tax dollars at the worst, which have been spent on far worse initiatives than reducing physical waste and creating jobs. Once the plastic has been sorted and processed (and typically shredded), it is sold and transported to a manufacturer who can use that form of plastic in their manufacturing. That manufacturer now does NOT have to buy new plastic to produce whatever it is they are producing.
Draw out a flowchart and you'll see that recycling really does work. The critics always focus on a single bottle and what it costs post-consumer - they ignore the reduction on new petroleum use by industries that can use recycled.- NonLeftistDiggr, on 04/26/2008, -7/+4Listen kool-aide addict, you can easily find more information about the fallacies of plastic recycling than information proving it helps. But it's a fad you want to belong to and believe in so you never worried about finding the credible information for plastic recycling actually saving....anything (like you are requesting now with me for something that is widely known, that being plastic recycling is rather useless and only exists because of the government and green-fads). You should be a civic planner, or work for the EPA, your apathy for credible information to prove a green fad before subscribing everyone to it would be put to great use.
And for caring so much about the amount of transportation the bottle goes through, you have no mention of the second very large diesel truck coming to our house to pick ONLY the recycleables even though another very large diesel truck already comes comes for the trash bin. Then throw in excessive processing to recycle plastic, on top of which generally yields much lower quality plastic.
Oh and here you go, or you can type plastic recycling into google and learn for yourself. Tell the other sheep summer is here and it's time to get sheered.
http://www.ecologycenter.org/ptf/misconceptions.ht ... - Disregard, on 04/27/2008, -2/+3Here's the ***** episode on recycling:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHAuU5JjRyQ
Note the part where they point out that only aluminum recycling (which has been done commercially since the 20s) saves energy and reduces environmental impact. Everything else is a feel-good extremely profitable scam.
- NonLeftistDiggr, on 04/26/2008, -7/+4Listen kool-aide addict, you can easily find more information about the fallacies of plastic recycling than information proving it helps. But it's a fad you want to belong to and believe in so you never worried about finding the credible information for plastic recycling actually saving....anything (like you are requesting now with me for something that is widely known, that being plastic recycling is rather useless and only exists because of the government and green-fads). You should be a civic planner, or work for the EPA, your apathy for credible information to prove a green fad before subscribing everyone to it would be put to great use.
- NonLeftistDiggr, on 04/26/2008, -14/+8what are you talking about, you need a pie chart to figure that out? let me first post the picture proving the sky is blue.
- wageslaven, on 04/26/2008, -9/+14Do you have a reputable citation for that?
- smurfsahoy, on 04/27/2008, -1/+5Saving money will conserve natural resources. It's called market economics. When oil starts running out, solar etc. will be cheaper to develop and use, and in the interest of saving money, people will switch. This is already happening. Your dad's point of view was perfectly legit.
- RayLuxuryYacht, on 04/27/2008, -1/+3Market pressures don't kick in soon enough if the environment is a time-lagged dynamical system. Which it is. Or if part of the environmental cost of consumption get placed on people other than the consumers. Which they do.
- smurfsahoy, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2Minorly time-lagged. We can see the results of ozone levels, for instance, on a time scale that is well within how long it takes us to react to it. As long as that is the case (which it is for most environmental issues - we know the rainforest is disappearing and that that causes erosion, etc. It's not like the consequences are all just clouded in uncertainty), the time-lag doesn't matter here.
As for externalities - When it comes to gasoline in America, you are wrong - there are not really any externalities, at least not any significant ones. Since EVERYBODY uses gas, more or less, and EVERYBODY pays taxes, more or less (usually in about the same ratio to their gas usage), the consumers are in fact actually directly paying for the side effects of their gas usage, thus making it NOT an externality. If this were some feudal village where only the bigshot on the top of the hill owns a car and a gas generator, it would be different, but this is America - everybody is a consumer, so there is no meaningful distinction betwenn public and consumer base. - RayLuxuryYacht, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1It's a nonlinear system, so even if you think the time lag has been minor/controllable in the past (which I would disagree with since the anti-environmentalists were able to deny the existence of global warming for 20+ years), we're in a state now that we haven't been in before. See Chernobyl for an example of believing that extensive experience operating a system in certain regimes is remotely relevant to operating in other regimes. I'd personally err on the side of caution.
Also I don't think your argument for externalities averaging is valid since I don't have a direct way to affect your decision to consume (and you don't have a way to affect my decision to consume) at the time the transaction is made. It's basically the prisoner's dilemma. The most "rational" decision is for me to proceed to consume the resources because either way if you consume or don't, I'm always personally better off if I consume than if I don't consume. The external cost on you is not a component of my decision. This is true /unless/ an added 'cost' (taxes/legislation) is added on to each person's decision to consume that realistically reflects the externalities. If a large enough people value the environment to enable legislation to be enacted to, say, tax plastic bags 5 cents each, that means that that's the new value that the market has placed on the externalities and it is just as valid of a part of the cost of the good as the raw materials.- smurfsahoy, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Global warming, though it indeed appears to be very real, is certainly not even correlated with CO2 production, has not been shown to be an economic blight in the future, and is questionably even stoppable. Don't get me started on people "realizing" the global warming problem. They're not reacting to it not because it snuck up on them, but because it's very likely a media sham (that we can/should fix it by pouring almost our entire GDP into a black hole, not that it's happening). Either way, it's hardly a time lag issue, no matter how you slice it.
Your externalities argument, however, I find rather convincing. I'll grant you that point. HOWEVER, it's only a problem if the externalities are really that bad in the first place, which I am not at all convinced that they are. Gasoline usage is mostly considered bad due to it being an issue of dependence, etc., not inherently for its own sake. If we can jump over to renewables when the time is right, then there wasn't really much that was that bad about us using oil all along anyway, in my opinion (except a few unnecessary wars - but Europe uses oil mostly like we do, and didn't fight those - which is even more pathetic for America, but also means it's probably not so relevant to this discussion, necessarily)
- smurfsahoy, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Global warming, though it indeed appears to be very real, is certainly not even correlated with CO2 production, has not been shown to be an economic blight in the future, and is questionably even stoppable. Don't get me started on people "realizing" the global warming problem. They're not reacting to it not because it snuck up on them, but because it's very likely a media sham (that we can/should fix it by pouring almost our entire GDP into a black hole, not that it's happening). Either way, it's hardly a time lag issue, no matter how you slice it.
- jhaks, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1If we actually did respond to environmental problems and pay attention when people foresee them, then there wouldn't be a problem. We have known about global warming and about the depletion of fossil fuels for a long while now, but have decided to put the problem off until it is unavoidable or too late. There are just so many cases in history where this type of laziness and stupidity has killed many people. If we foresee a problem then fixing it early on will prevent loss of life and money in the future.
- smurfsahoy, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Give some examples. I don't think this is really much of a recurring problem at all. The vast majority of things we have done to the environment have been successfully reversed or indeed avoided in the first place.
- smurfsahoy, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2Minorly time-lagged. We can see the results of ozone levels, for instance, on a time scale that is well within how long it takes us to react to it. As long as that is the case (which it is for most environmental issues - we know the rainforest is disappearing and that that causes erosion, etc. It's not like the consequences are all just clouded in uncertainty), the time-lag doesn't matter here.
- RayLuxuryYacht, on 04/27/2008, -1/+3Market pressures don't kick in soon enough if the environment is a time-lagged dynamical system. Which it is. Or if part of the environmental cost of consumption get placed on people other than the consumers. Which they do.
- NonLeftistDiggr, on 04/26/2008, -15/+10Well except for petroleum, which recycling actually wastes overall through energy use, but who cares about that.
- LazyTurtle, on 04/26/2008, -9/+65We need to stop using plastic and go back to glass. It's reusable and will make me spend less $ at the pump.
- PHiZ187, on 04/26/2008, -4/+26But it requires more oil to transport heavier glass bottles.
- nonymous666, on 04/26/2008, -2/+8B.Y.O.B. I've heard you can do that in Japan when buying water at the store.
- ho0ber, on 04/26/2008, -1/+4...or in almost any grocery store in the US?
- nonymous666, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Not around me.
- Atomic05, on 04/26/2008, -1/+10Why would you buy water at the store when you're already paying for it at the tap? If you're really that worried about what's in your water, buy your own filter. It's much cheaper per gallon and you're getting the same damn thing.
- nonymous666, on 04/27/2008, -2/+1Fine if you just want filtered water like basic Dasani or whatever. But what if you want actual spring water?
- ho0ber, on 04/26/2008, -1/+4...or in almost any grocery store in the US?
- nonymous666, on 04/26/2008, -2/+8B.Y.O.B. I've heard you can do that in Japan when buying water at the store.
- daschupa, on 04/26/2008, -2/+6Or cloth bottles.
- PopASquatt, on 04/27/2008, -2/+8The province of Prince Edward Island up here in Canada have been using glass as a replacement to plastic for years. I always found this strange when I was a boy seeing that I was not from P.E.I., but I soon became aware of the impact that plastics have on our resources. We need to begin using paper bags and glass bottles again!
- coyoteblue, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1or reusable canvas bags
- blagoaw, on 04/27/2008, -1/+6Most things taste better from glass anyway, and it just feels right. I'm often willing to pay a little extra for that even if there is the risk of legal consequences after some guy gives me trouble and I smash it against a counter and swing it around a bit. There's no way he's getting near my bottled beverage, even if the man's gonna take me down.
- randumbusername, on 04/27/2008, -2/+1all it takes is some ***** to leave a glass bottle with a baby and well be right back to plastics.
- linuxpenguin, on 04/27/2008, -2/+4You shouldn't use glass when hiking, biking, or doing other sports - it'll break, and then you have nothing except shards of glass.
Not to mention, as someone else said here before, plastic and gasoline come from the same crude oil. When you separate the crude oil, you get both (as well as other things) - not one or the other. They can't make more gasoline by leaving in the chemicals they take out to make plastic - those chemicals need to come out. Either you waste them by not making something out of them, or you buy plastic products - your choice.
- PHiZ187, on 04/26/2008, -4/+26But it requires more oil to transport heavier glass bottles.
- DopplerDuck, on 04/26/2008, -5/+17Glass! Yeah!
- NonLeftistDiggr, on 04/26/2008, -6/+30That's a dirty secret for people who don't know how the world works and get all their scientific knowledge from what politicians do and say.
- wageslaven, on 04/26/2008, -6/+6Right, 'cause its the evil gummint who decides to encourage us to be wasteful with the use of plastics.
How about the marketplace that doesnt capture the externalized costs of waste?
Your tax money pays for landfills you know -- it seems that the public pays all the costs and consequences while the "free market" earns all the profit.- NonLeftistDiggr, on 04/26/2008, -5/+5Or how about the gummint who lies to us about the real cost of recyling?
- Rikkochet, on 04/26/2008, -3/+7Cite your sources. Explain what the government has to gain here. I'm dying to know, because it sounds like a clear cut case of resource optimization which is resisted by people who don't want to have to think about something new.
- twinklyJesus, on 04/26/2008, -4/+3In a free-market society, if it is viable to make money from recycling, the industry will exist by itself. The government won't have to legislate an industry into existence, and it will be rife with profits. Or, like now, it isn't. Apparently, recycling isn't the lucrative industry you think, and it probably costs more to process and recycle than to create new.
You do know that the trucks that pick up your recycle bin go to the same processing queues as the one that picks up the garbage bin, right? You know it's a scam to charge municipalities for TWICE as many service trips than only one (traditional service) would. They sort the recycled on the same lines they sort the garbage. Most of the time one truck is a garbage truck and the next one behind it is a recycle truck. Its a scam, and companies like Waste Management clean up when cities legislate recycling routes and bins for your house. They charge for those, you know.
- NonLeftistDiggr, on 04/26/2008, -5/+5Or how about the gummint who lies to us about the real cost of recyling?
- KevinRWright, on 04/26/2008, -2/+6Seriously, who didn't know this?
Well, if people didn't, at least they do now.- lead2thehead, on 04/26/2008, -0/+4You'd be amazed how many people don't know where plastic comes from. Hell, half of America doesn't know what their food is made out of.
- gquaglia, on 04/26/2008, -1/+2America, home of the stupid. What else could explain why American Idol is popular.
- lead2thehead, on 04/26/2008, -0/+4You'd be amazed how many people don't know where plastic comes from. Hell, half of America doesn't know what their food is made out of.
- Atomic05, on 04/26/2008, -1/+4Politicians? Try parents, television, the internet, and public schools. Politicians simply reiterate what everyone else says.
- blagoaw, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1The people complain when the politicians preach to us, and complain again when they don't. What's a poor politician man gonna do.
More seriously though, a lot of Americans don't trust this to be part of the government's role, and are also up in arms when they're left to pay for these things after it isn't handled by the government. The level of trust in the government is so low, and the standard is so low, that they can't really do a ***** thing for the people aside from protect the markets. And the cycle continues?
- wageslaven, on 04/26/2008, -6/+6Right, 'cause its the evil gummint who decides to encourage us to be wasteful with the use of plastics.
- UltramegaOK, on 04/26/2008, -25/+11I throw my plastic bags on the street and in rivers whenever possible. Global warming is a hoax.
- dondara, on 04/26/2008, -4/+3Chris Cornell is crying somewhere. *****.
- nonymous666, on 04/26/2008, -3/+3How about putting a bag over your head. And your fugly mom's, too.
- ho0ber, on 04/26/2008, -1/+3I heard his mom was hot...
- regeya, on 04/26/2008, -1/+5Do people even try to be clever when they're trolling anymore?
- randumbusername, on 04/27/2008, -0/+0damn that some funny *****.
- justice7, on 04/26/2008, -16/+3CNN just ran a story about being able to convert coal-to-gasoline, instead of using crude oil. Might help the situation. (might still apply to plastics)
- KevinRWright, on 04/26/2008, -1/+4You are just weaning off of one natural resource, back on to another.
- regeya, on 04/26/2008, -1/+1Yes, but it's something we can use until something more renewable is more viable.
- TripcodeMel, on 04/27/2008, -1/+0The world has another 200-300 years of coal left in the ground. Not so with oil. If you think that the second 'green revolution' is going to happen overnight, you're WRONG. Right now, anything to stem the tide helps.
- jmpeagle, on 04/26/2008, -0/+7you can turn any hydrocarbon into gasoline. It's just really expensive and really polluting.
- Bhima, on 04/26/2008, -0/+4This is absolutely analogous to the fact that once the veins in your arms & legs have collapsed from shooting so much heroin, you can find new ones between your toes and in your crotch.
- Yatata, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1or we can organize to the stop oil and gas lobby from suppressing technologies like this: http://digg.com/world_news/Australian_Man_Invents_ ...
- userperson, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2I certainly hope it's true. If so much of the discussion here is moot. Though it's highly suspect.
The oil and gas lobby would try to buy him out to sell such a thing.
reminds me of:
Steven Hyde: There is no gas shortage man. It's all fake. The oil companies control everything. Like there is this guy that invented this car and it runs on water man. It's got a fiberglass air-cooled engine and it runs on water.- Yatata, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1yep- my estranged uncle is the devil, he owns a bunch of oil rigs in ecologically sensitive areas. He's the one that confided to me that the oil and gas lobby spends hundreds of millions on suppressing new technologies that keep popping up around the world. considering they are the most wealthy and the most powerful corporation on the planet, the money they're spending on suppression is a tiny tiny fraction of their overall wealth. I doubt this technology is fake, these guys have made the extra effort to get the details out in public while still trying to get a patent. it's a lot more likely it's just another case of suppression. needless to say I don't talk to my uncle much anymore. he makes me feel dirty.
- Yatata, on 04/28/2008, -0/+1also, I don't think the oil and gas ppl would try to buy them out and sell it themselves. unless they're selling each unit for half a million dollars a piece-and even then ppl wouldn't buy it because it would be too expensive. oil and gas has already hit their economic sweet spot- cheap enough for people to buy, a necessary commodity since our entire civilization is based in oil production, and monopolized so they control the price. the magnetic generator as an object on the other hand is not a continuously desired commodity. it's a buy one , get your energy for free perpetually kinda deal. there's more money in oil and gas for oil and gas ppl, we'll always need to buy it as long as they control the show.
- userperson, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2I certainly hope it's true. If so much of the discussion here is moot. Though it's highly suspect.
- KevinRWright, on 04/26/2008, -1/+4You are just weaning off of one natural resource, back on to another.
- empirefalling, on 04/26/2008, -30/+15America is a waste land of pollution and garbage. From it’s overcrowded and wretchedly impoverished west coast to the dilapidated and decaying east coast. From it’s heavily toxic southern border to it’s Acidic rain and dilapidated forests on the northern border. Everywhere there is refuse. American capitalism has turned a once natural home for millions of Native North Americans into a waste disposal site. US pollution now travels the globe, in the oceans and in the atmosphere, warming the biosphere and poisoning millions.
- paulmer2003, on 04/26/2008, -3/+11You sir, are a moron. Have you been to Europe? We have cleaner air then they do. Why? Because of legislation for things such as catalytic converters and the like. We may indeed consume a ***** of a oil, but we still have cleaner air than a lot of places.
- tomgsmyth, on 04/26/2008, -3/+1...or maybe all the ***** air just travels away, kind of like when you flush the toilet the ***** ends up in the ocean. by your logic my toilet bowl is cleaner than the ocean. and it is. i really think its missing the point though.
- Scheissen, on 04/26/2008, -3/+13I'm going to burst the communist dream and point out that socialist China has outputted more pollution than America the past couple years. In a dystopic society like communism there is no pollution because there is no production. You reactionaries see only the bad parts of capitalism and want to revert back to a socialist hunter-gatherer value system.
- FairDinkumMate, on 04/27/2008, -1/+1How is China being socialist relevant to the topic? You may also want to add that you are referring to 'carbon' pollution because when it comes to plastics(which is what the topic is) the US is about 20 times worse per person than China!
With regard to carbon based pollution - China has 4.5 times the population of the US! Per person they output less than 25% of the US in relation to the 'carbon' pollution that you are referring to.
- FairDinkumMate, on 04/27/2008, -1/+1How is China being socialist relevant to the topic? You may also want to add that you are referring to 'carbon' pollution because when it comes to plastics(which is what the topic is) the US is about 20 times worse per person than China!
- govsucks, on 04/26/2008, -1/+1Something for you to masturbate with:
http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=78516&rendTypeId=4 - LucasKane, on 04/26/2008, -1/+4You sir, are a moron.
- nedzeve, on 04/27/2008, -0/+14 naive diggers took your bait this time "Empirefalling". Bravo, sir.
- paulmer2003, on 04/26/2008, -3/+11You sir, are a moron. Have you been to Europe? We have cleaner air then they do. Why? Because of legislation for things such as catalytic converters and the like. We may indeed consume a ***** of a oil, but we still have cleaner air than a lot of places.
- noahsawyer, on 04/26/2008, -5/+10Some plastic bottles also have health risks.
http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSN151 ...
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/08013 ...- sporg, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2This is quite true. I dont know why someone would bury it, except maybe to hide (from) the truth. Plastic bottles leach petrochemicals into the fluids they contain. Like we need that on top of all the other carcinogens we have to deal with on a daily basis.
- jmpeagle, on 04/26/2008, -2/+19america consumes 21 million barrels of oil per day so plastic bags and plastic water make up less than 0.3% of our oil use. Of course it wouldn't hurt to cut back. It's hard to break habit though. My parents have those reusable grocery bags but they rarely ever remember to bring them to the grocery store.
- bjornski, on 04/26/2008, -4/+1No paper bags at their store?
- cfuddd, on 04/26/2008, -7/+2Whoa. Take your logic away from dig.
RON PAUL REVOLUTION.
Wait, I mean. YES WE CAN.- regeya, on 04/26/2008, -4/+2Yeah! Ron Paul, who wants to return us to the horrors of the Gilded Age! Yeah Yeah YEAH!!!
- warriorscot, on 04/27/2008, -1/+3Its not just bottles you need to consider but all the polymers we use, they are totally essential to our society, we can find alternatives to fuel transport and provide electrical energy but alternatives for plastic manufacture are much harder.
- BabyBoomerQueen, on 04/26/2008, -17/+0And don't forget while you are drinking your water...there are plastic bottles out there that are very poisonous to you and your pets! Hello as you stated it is made with oil!
Water and oil do not mix!
Recycle...
Southern smiles and world peace,
Sharon
The Baby Boomer Queen
BabyBoomerAdvisorClub.com- arobar, on 04/26/2008, -0/+2Don't put a signature on digg comments, ESPECIALLY if you're just going to link to your own website.
- 3tcp, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2No one gives a ***** about your website
If anyone thought you had something to say worth listening to they'd check your profile and see it
buried & reported as spam - leahpee, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Hello! Nobody cares about the glorification of your midlife crisis!
- PHiZ187, on 04/26/2008, -3/+52Man, I hate plastic bags so much. They're all crinkly, and people take them when they purchase something without thinking about it. Every time I see someone take a plastic bag for a single 3 ounce item, I want to scream. Buy and use reusable cloth bags!
Reduce. Reuse. Recycle. (In that order)- forsight, on 04/26/2008, -1/+5HERE, HERE!!!!
- diggSJaustin, on 04/26/2008, -1/+5I think you meant "hear hear."
- diggSJaustin, on 04/26/2008, -1/+5I think you meant "hear hear."
- Schmapdi, on 04/26/2008, -0/+8I got a half dozen nice canvas bags over a year ago, they rock. Its much easier to carry groceries in from the car, and my local supermarket gives me a 5 cent credit each time I check out for using them. Best 6 bucks I've ever spent. They really are a win/win situation all around. Get them and use them!
- vault, on 04/26/2008, -11/+4You are an eco-fascist. I always get plastic bags when I'm buying groceries or anything really.
- Owwmykneecap, on 04/26/2008, -2/+1yeah, well your just a spa.
- vault, on 04/26/2008, -7/+1That would be "you're" just a spa. Try harder next time, child.
- Owwmykneecap, on 04/26/2008, -1/+6So he is an "eco-fascist", you are a "grammar Nazi" and I am a child.
Well it looks like I got the pick of the draw. - vault, on 04/26/2008, -4/+1lol
- Owwmykneecap, on 04/26/2008, -1/+6So he is an "eco-fascist", you are a "grammar Nazi" and I am a child.
- vault, on 04/26/2008, -7/+1That would be "you're" just a spa. Try harder next time, child.
- res8qr6m, on 04/27/2008, -2/+3Wouldn't being wasteful about plastics make you the eco-fascist?
- Owwmykneecap, on 04/26/2008, -2/+1yeah, well your just a spa.
- kiwimonk, on 04/26/2008, -0/+3Reduce, Reuse, Recyle, and don't forget: Relax
- jamaster06, on 04/27/2008, -3/+3I have my grocer place each item in a separate plastic bag.
- warriorscot, on 04/27/2008, -0/+3You can reuse plastic bags, to be honest the lack of cheap plastic bags around the house is a pain in the backside, sometimes you need a disposable bag or one at least you don't mind leaving behind.
- bdbr, on 04/27/2008, -1/+7We have canvas bags that we bought in 1991, and we're still using them. They last a very long time.
- rjam710, on 04/27/2008, -2/+4I'm gonna go buy a bottle of water and double bag it just for that.
- darkciti2, on 04/27/2008, -1/+2I ask for paper bags because I actually prefer them. I like how when I put a paper bag full of groceries on my counter it stays where I put it and everything doesn't fall over. With plastic bags, you seem like you're carrying more, but the reality is that you're carrying _less_ (albeit more conveniently).
A full shopping cart = 4 or 5 paper bags
OR
A full shopping cart = 18 plastic bags laying all over each other, piling up, killing birds in landfills, etc.
Plus, I love how it annoys the grocery kid that actually has to EARN (z0mg, WTF!?) his paycheck when I ask for "paper bags, please".- PHiZ187, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Yeah, give me convenience or give me death.
- linuxpenguin, on 04/27/2008, -2/+1You're ridiculous. You can reuse those plastic bags.
- PHiZ187, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1I can just about guarantee that you have a stash of like 50 bags in your home. The point is that people take bags unthinkingly. Do you really need a bag for your single item? Everyone could cut down on the bags they take from stores, and still meet their needs for bags around the house.
- forsight, on 04/26/2008, -1/+5HERE, HERE!!!!
- SOS84, on 04/26/2008, -9/+5Why is this a dirty little secret. Those little plastic bottles they put water in are nearly infinitely recyclable. Grocery bags are another issue. Better to use and reuse the oil then let it burn in an engine.
- diggSJaustin, on 04/26/2008, -0/+2http://www.ecologycenter.org/ptf/misconceptions.ht ...
- dddavid, on 04/27/2008, -0/+0Unfortunately infinitely recyclable is a far cry from infinitely recycled.
- jarjarjanks, on 04/26/2008, -5/+10Why is only the plastic for water bottles counted? what about ALL the other plastic bottles? stupid environmentalists
- forsight, on 04/26/2008, -3/+4they are making a point. don't be so negative. smile pussy-cat :)
- webaddict, on 04/26/2008, -0/+2The figures are not available industry wide for ALL plastic bottles and products. The number is too large and too vast so it was easier to make the point with verifiable data that people can relate to.
- tomgsmyth, on 04/26/2008, -0/+1um.. well heres a good point why ***** spend 3 dollars on something that you can pour from a tap for free. and for that matter why do anything at all. get your canvas tent ready and prepare for the apocolypse. or at least teach your kids to do that becasue the earth is going to recycle the human race soon.
- zapperdude60, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1digg has spell check for a reason
- Magnj, on 04/26/2008, -4/+6How can I recycle the plastic grocery bags?
- buddypriefert, on 04/26/2008, -0/+7Stuff them in a drawer like we do and reuse them when we go off to the grocery store again. Sounds dumb, but 10 or so these little bags wad up into a tennis ball size and last several times over.
- Magnj, on 04/26/2008, -0/+6yea this is usually what I do but we end up with a lot of them. We also try to re-use them as garbage bags in smaller trash bins...
- bjornski, on 04/26/2008, -0/+6Our local Cub Foods has a bin at the front of the store you can stick them in. It's right by the coupon stand.
I stick 'em in the drawer until I get 20-30 of 'em and bring 'em in and stick them i the recycling bin there. Takes me like .5 second while I get this weeks coupons. - Ouze, on 04/26/2008, -7/+1what you need to do is save all your plastic bags and bottles. Once you have about 50 or so, you need to pack them tightly into a wadded ball while the oven pre-heats to about 400 degrees. Bake for about 20 minutes. Then, take the now molten plastic, shape it into a ball, bring it down to the curb, and put it into a blue recycling container, or if you don't have one, to your local recycling center. You're going to want to do this pretty fast, because the molten plastic is going to leave some pretty significant burns and scarring. Some people say you can just put the plastic bags and bottles into the recycling container without melting them first, but those people are pussies and you should ignore them. Also, if you are Chuck Norris, you can skip putting it into the recycle bins, and just eat the ball of molten plastic instead in one smooth shot.
- jamaster06, on 04/27/2008, -0/+3A lot of the grocery store now have bins out front where you can dump the bags. I just keep shoving bags into one bag until I can't stuff anymore in there then throw it in the trunk, and the next time I go to the store I'll throw it in the bin.
- TomTruelle, on 04/27/2008, -1/+2I lol'd at how you just wasted about 20 minutes to write something that wasnt even remotely funny.
- 3tcp, on 04/27/2008, -4/+3Bury them and in a couple million years they'll be recycled back into fossil fuels
- cgrickard, on 04/27/2008, -0/+3stop and shop actually takes them now, most locations (IF you have one near you).
- linuxpenguin, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Use them as garbage bags for smaller trash cans.
- Wacer, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2That is good but how many do you have balled up in a pile versus being used in trash cans. I have so many because I thought this was a great idea but found out that I bring more home than I am using. These bags are a disease.
- buddypriefert, on 04/26/2008, -0/+7Stuff them in a drawer like we do and reuse them when we go off to the grocery store again. Sounds dumb, but 10 or so these little bags wad up into a tennis ball size and last several times over.
- zapa, on 04/26/2008, -11/+5It seems to say: sweden > america and me > you.
- 3tcp, on 04/27/2008, -1/+3Yeah, author seems to find a special pride in pointing out that a country with 50 times their population happens to produce more waste
- Fastbullit, on 04/27/2008, -1/+2Do you know what percentage is?
- leahpee, on 04/27/2008, -0/+0That would make a good tshirt.
- 3tcp, on 04/27/2008, -1/+3Yeah, author seems to find a special pride in pointing out that a country with 50 times their population happens to produce more waste
- GordonClass, on 04/26/2008, -4/+5I'm sorry but I'm still using plastic bags for my garbage. Growing up the garbage cans always smelled like sh**.
- Witchbaby, on 04/26/2008, -4/+8Isn't tap water better for you anyway??
- SomethingEpic, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Yup. It's tested much much more than bottled water and the added fluoride helps prevent cavities. Plus, most bottled water is just bottled tap water (Dasani and Aquafina are just two) with the price raised so that it cost more per ounce of bottled water than it does gasoline. Why bother when you can get it practically free from your kitchen sink?
- userperson, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Depends on your water source vs. your bottler, could be better could be worse.
- RyanBlack, on 04/26/2008, -5/+13Water bottles, ***** YEAH
- forsight, on 04/26/2008, -13/+23I traveled to Switzerland, and man are they way ahead of the curve. There are recycle bins every few blocks and everybody uses them! I love it! GO SWISS!
p.s I have traveled to 13 countries and Swiss is also the cleanest :)- tomgsmyth, on 04/26/2008, -2/+6you have histrionic personality disorder.
- ep53, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2You obviously havent been to Munich(rest of Germany may do it too...not sure) in Germany EVERY bin is divided into 3 seperate sections, 1 for glass, plastic and metal. Some even go further as to seperate paper and bio. Everything else goes in "Restmull". I used to live there and NOT recycle and the neighbours used to let me know they werent happy about me not recyling.
- zspeed78, on 04/26/2008, -4/+51.5 million cars for a year.. so, you mean, we use the fuel of one large California town, to provide water for the clean drinking water at RETAIL (meaning, people like it and want it) for the entire US! That seems pretty fair.
- Owwmykneecap, on 04/26/2008, -3/+1Never hear of plumbing?
- AgmLauncher, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Yeah, I carry my house and my sink with me where ever I go. Who needs to be able to buy water when they're thirsty and out running errands? Only morons, that's who!
- fredmv, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1It's called a Nalgene bottle. I know, rocket science.
- AgmLauncher, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Yeah, I carry my house and my sink with me where ever I go. Who needs to be able to buy water when they're thirsty and out running errands? Only morons, that's who!
- 3tcp, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1If people are dumb enough to buy it, it would be dumb not to sell it to them
- BuzzedMonkey, on 04/27/2008, -0/+0Dude the point is not fairness. We shouldn't be worried about fueling our cars we should be worried about reducing the number of cars in the country. We have 30% of the world's cars and 5% of the population. Did u ever stop to think that you pay a water bill for WATER and you still goo out and buy more. You can also get free water by gathering rainwater. It is impossibly easy to get water without bottles and 1.5 million cars is a lot of pollution seeing as each car releases TONS of CO2 in a year that's around 15 million tons of CO2 for all those cars.
- Owwmykneecap, on 04/26/2008, -3/+1Never hear of plumbing?
- mistergoodburge, on 04/26/2008, -4/+5I made an environmental club, you can too!!! Remember people recycle reuse reinvent refuse
- tomgsmyth, on 04/26/2008, -0/+4are you talking about making arts and crafts. i love it! you can never have too many plastic bottle mosaics around the house.
- 3tcp, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Nothing says conservation like pizza parties and flyers on every door in the neiighborhood
- momsshizzle, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2I recycle your girlfriends.
- mistergoodburge, on 04/27/2008, -1/+1....bastard :(
- JacksonYaya, on 04/26/2008, -3/+8I have seen the light. I will now buy my water in canvas bags.
- Vorin, on 04/27/2008, -1/+1here's a better idea, get a nalgene or similar durable water bottle, and refill it instead of buying/thowing away. also, it's cheaper.
- eclectro, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Nalgene is poisonous now read the news.
- Vorin, on 04/27/2008, -1/+1here's a better idea, get a nalgene or similar durable water bottle, and refill it instead of buying/thowing away. also, it's cheaper.
- Exilon, on 04/26/2008, -7/+4Wait? Since when were plastic bottles made from light sweet crude?
- Ouze, on 04/26/2008, -2/+3http://www.reachoutmichigan.org/funexperiments/qui ...
If you google "how is plastic made" that is the first result. The next 6m or 7 or considerably more technical, if you are of that bent. - betona, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Since always.
- Ouze, on 04/26/2008, -2/+3http://www.reachoutmichigan.org/funexperiments/qui ...
- AgentVladimir, on 04/26/2008, -0/+2Defence of the plastic packing industry from today's FT magazine: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/823eebc6-1007-11dd-8871- ...
- chriskzoo, on 04/26/2008, -2/+21I'm not even a hippy and I've stopped drinking store bought water and bring our own canvas bags to the grocery store.
- Yatata, on 04/27/2008, -1/+3why are people so scared of the term "hippy"? without the "hippy" movement a lot of our student and civil rights wouldn't exist.
- eclectro, on 04/27/2008, -2/+1What rights? The right to smoke pot? Uhh, that's not quite there yet, keep trying. The other rights we have we got through the bill of rights and legal battles fought about them.
We do have the right to have overly long and unkept hair now, so I guess there's that.- smotpoker, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2You should do a bit more research on the issue... hippies played a big part in setting many of those legal precedence and relieving much of the oppression of American culture.
Without them it's very likely that women who didn't wear dresses would still be frowned upon, there would still be more segregation (MLK likely would not have been as successful without the help/participation of white activists, a large portion of which were hippies), Vietnam may have went on longer, there would be less tolerance of other cultures, computer hacking owes a large part of it's tradition to Hippies and hippie-propagated beliefs, including open-source/free software movement not to mention big impacts on pop-culture, music and personal philosophies/beliefs across the country
A lot of social and spiritual freedoms were inspired or manifest in large part due to them
- smotpoker, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2You should do a bit more research on the issue... hippies played a big part in setting many of those legal precedence and relieving much of the oppression of American culture.
- eclectro, on 04/27/2008, -2/+1What rights? The right to smoke pot? Uhh, that's not quite there yet, keep trying. The other rights we have we got through the bill of rights and legal battles fought about them.
We do have the right to have overly long and unkept hair now, so I guess there's that.
- eclectro, on 04/27/2008, -2/+1What rights? The right to smoke pot? Uhh, that's not quite there yet, keep trying. The other rights we have we got through the bill of rights and legal battles fought about them.
- Yatata, on 04/27/2008, -1/+3why are people so scared of the term "hippy"? without the "hippy" movement a lot of our student and civil rights wouldn't exist.
- C0MF0RTABLYnumb, on 04/26/2008, -1/+4And unfortunately this is were some of it is going: http://www.vbs.tv/video.php?id=1485308505
- yosserhughes, on 04/26/2008, -3/+1Isn't buying bottled water right up there with Cabbage Patch dolls, Pet Rocks, extended warranty's and the Iraq war.
- cfuddd, on 04/26/2008, -4/+5Idiots. Americans consume 20+ mil barrels a day. This is nothing. Focus on the main picture.
- webaddict, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2A reader on the blog did a calculation to come up with the figure of 0.67% of total annual oil production to produce the water bottles and the plastic bags this is the type of impact it would make:
Just recently the House speaker, Nanci Pelosi, asked President Bush to halt the SPR (Strategic Petroleum Reserve) in order to bring down oil prices. Quoted from the following article:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080424/pl_nm/usa_cong ...
“Pelosi said suspending deliveries would save drivers 5 cents to 24 cents per gallon at the pump.
As U.S. benchmark crude oil prices hit a record near $120 a barrel this week, the Bush administration insists that filling the reserve accounts for less than one-tenth of 1 percent of daily supply, and has no meaningful effect on prices.”
So the SPR at only 1/10 of 1% reduction is expected to create a 5 cent to 24 cent per gallon decrease at the pump. With the figure of 0.67% being removed from oil usage by eliminating water bottle and plastic bag consumption we see that it is 7/10’s of 1%. So a 7 times greater reduction at the pump would be 35 cents to $1.68 at the gas pump. If you don’t think that 35 cents to $1.68 is a significant reduction then you clearly don’t have an issue with current pump prices.- eclectro, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1This is the thing. The wild spending on SUVs (and the moron companies that made them) paid little heed to the energy realities to drive them. I think of the cadillac escalade which is as big as a semi. On top of that, we send 500 billion dollars a year out of the country just to buy oil. While food for oil (aka corn ethanol) doesn't make sense it would seem that there could be another weed grown that could do the same.
All together it brings us to the point we are today. The idea that suspending SPR is really a bandaid, though it could start a downward trend. Oil will never go below $80 a barrell until we stop using it.
- eclectro, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1This is the thing. The wild spending on SUVs (and the moron companies that made them) paid little heed to the energy realities to drive them. I think of the cadillac escalade which is as big as a semi. On top of that, we send 500 billion dollars a year out of the country just to buy oil. While food for oil (aka corn ethanol) doesn't make sense it would seem that there could be another weed grown that could do the same.
- webaddict, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2A reader on the blog did a calculation to come up with the figure of 0.67% of total annual oil production to produce the water bottles and the plastic bags this is the type of impact it would make:
- Owwmykneecap, on 04/26/2008, -2/+10So who actually buys bottled water?
Because I've got a new fabric for sale, it's so spectacular only the most elite of the elite can see it... - daschupa, on 04/26/2008, -1/+8The situation is even worse, I heard they use plastic bottles in other countries besides America too. [citation needed]
- madpuppy, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1this cannot be! not "other" countries! I heard that every country besides America uses "natural" plastic grown from the cleanest rolling hills of their countryside. America uses radioactive coal soaked in light sweet crude to make plastic bottles.
- userperson, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1I think you mean 'organic' plastic or maybe it's 'sustainable' I forget.
- madpuppy, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1this cannot be! not "other" countries! I heard that every country besides America uses "natural" plastic grown from the cleanest rolling hills of their countryside. America uses radioactive coal soaked in light sweet crude to make plastic bottles.
- katorga, on 04/26/2008, -1/+7Bottled water is beyond me. I do not understand why anyone would buy it. It costs Coke and Pepsi .087 cents per bottle to produce it. Point Zero Eight Seven. They use common tap water. They destroy the watershed in any area where they bottle it, and to top it off, it uses plastic bottles.
- locamama, on 04/26/2008, -6/+5Everybody go buy one of these for your water.
http://www.mysigg.com/index.asp?PageAction=COMPANY- JointVenture, on 04/27/2008, -2/+2NO.
- lestyoubejudged, on 04/27/2008, -0/+0Sorry but I can't resist: http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.wordpress.com/2008/02/ ...
- Berkana, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1Since SIGG bottles are coated on the inside with an epoxy coating to prevent any metallic taste from leaching into the contents, there's a chance the liners could themselves leach stuff into the contents. The epoxy coating traditionally used to coat cans contains Bisphenol-A. SIGG was asked whether their water bottles use an inner coating that contains Bisphenol-A, but they won't tell what the ingredients are, saying that the coating is proprietary, only adding that a study they funded says they're safe.
To be really safe, stick with electro-polished stainless steel or glass.- JointVenture, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1So what you're saying is the plastic water bottle was created to kill white people?
- ThinkFr33ly, on 04/26/2008, -2/+16Just to put this in perspective. 230 million barrels of oil is about 11.5 days worth of oil usage per year.... and those stats are just for the United States.
Production of pastic bottles and bags accounts for about 1.5 days worth of oil usage per year. So it accounts for less than 1/2 of 1% of our total oil usage.
We have bigger fish to fry.- mattsydoz, on 04/26/2008, -0/+1I wouldn't say these issues are not important. They are something that everyone can do something about. Stop buying water in bottles when you have a drinkable supply piped directly to your home. Take your own bags when you go grocery shopping. Sure they are not going to make a big dent in oil consumption but they don't take much effort either.
- regeya, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1So, what fish are you currently frying, ThinkFr33ly?
I'm genuinely curious.- ThinkFr33ly, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1How about electrical production?
See: http://www.robertdowney.com/2008/04/from-peak-oil- ...
Yes, I'm the author.
- ThinkFr33ly, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1How about electrical production?
- webaddict, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1A reader on the blog did a calculation to come up with the figure of 0.67% of total annual oil production to produce the water bottles and the plastic bags this is the type of impact it would make:
Just recently the House speaker, Nanci Pelosi, asked President Bush to halt the SPR (Strategic Petroleum Reserve) in order to bring down oil prices. Quoted from the following article:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080424/pl_nm/usa_cong ...
“Pelosi said suspending deliveries would save drivers 5 cents to 24 cents per gallon at the pump.
As U.S. benchmark crude oil prices hit a record near $120 a barrel this week, the Bush administration insists that filling the reserve accounts for less than one-tenth of 1 percent of daily supply, and has no meaningful effect on prices.”
So the SPR at only 1/10 of 1% reduction is expected to create a 5 cent to 24 cent per gallon decrease at the pump. With the figure of 0.67% being removed from oil usage by eliminating water bottle and plastic bag consumption we see that it is 7/10’s of 1%. So a 7 times greater reduction at the pump would be 35 cents to $1.68 at the gas pump. If you don’t think that 35 cents to $1.68 is a significant reduction then you clearly don’t have an issue with current pump prices.
Enjoy frying your fish, we're going to keep frying ours you numb skull. - Solaris2NOLA, on 04/27/2008, -0/+0I concur
- mattsydoz, on 04/26/2008, -0/+1I wouldn't say these issues are not important. They are something that everyone can do something about. Stop buying water in bottles when you have a drinkable supply piped directly to your home. Take your own bags when you go grocery shopping. Sure they are not going to make a big dent in oil consumption but they don't take much effort either.
- pjf00, on 04/26/2008, -1/+3what about the insane amount of plastic used on everything? tv remotes, toys, some cell phones, memory cards (anything from best buy), where you need a hack saw to open the damn container? also, my city and some others have garbage sorting centers (that i have visited first hand) and they separate things out of the trash that can be recycled.
- mattsydoz, on 04/26/2008, -1/+0I agree with you one the plastic packaging. It seems it is made to be destroyed and hence not returnable. It may be recyclable but it's not reusable. I wasn't too sure when Apple started using plastic containers for iPods but at least they can be reused. They're handy for storing things in.
The first thought that comes to mind of having the trash sorted by someone else is that it doesn't change people's habits. There's no consideration to consumption. It just hides the issue. It also requires a labor force that can be paid cheaply enough to make it cost effective.
It is better to reduce consumption than having to deal with the outputs of that consumption, although business would want to tell you otherwise.
- mattsydoz, on 04/26/2008, -1/+0I agree with you one the plastic packaging. It seems it is made to be destroyed and hence not returnable. It may be recyclable but it's not reusable. I wasn't too sure when Apple started using plastic containers for iPods but at least they can be reused. They're handy for storing things in.
- Grooblle, on 04/26/2008, -2/+1http://www.container-recycling.org/images/plastic/ ...
- hempydave, on 04/26/2008, -6/+4Drink your Nazi camp passivity inducing, patented as rat poison in 1953, by product of the production of Aluminum DANT DA DA DAHH
Fluoride - D4N747, on 04/26/2008, -6/+7Why doesn't America just ban the plastic bag? If I remember correctly, China is banning it completely by june, and it seems like a logical move to make.
- DeadBabyFloat, on 04/26/2008, -4/+9Because its not ***** COMMUNIST CHINA!
- regeya, on 04/27/2008, -1/+6I see...it's not Communist China, so we should let them outdo us.
Yup, sounds about right!
- regeya, on 04/27/2008, -1/+6I see...it's not Communist China, so we should let them outdo us.
- JointVenture, on 04/27/2008, -1/+2China will ban them for the Olympics like they have many things, and then bring them back afterwords. They've become part of the culture.
- sporg, on 04/27/2008, -0/+4Because its counterproductive to create more and more useless laws like that to bog down an already top-heavy law system. Consumers and corporations need to take the initiative here and do whats right (yeah right!). The government isn't our ***** nanny.
- randumbusername, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2you can take up residence in KAUL-LI-FOR-NEE-UH. i think they are on the anti-plastic bag trip.
- userperson, on 04/27/2008, -0/+2Yeah why can't we be more ecologically friendly ... like China
I guess they care about their citizens and the earth more than we do.
- DeadBabyFloat, on 04/26/2008, -4/+9Because its not ***** COMMUNIST CHINA!
- thesandbender, on 04/26/2008, -1/+2Some of this is just ignorance on the part of the American consumer. My company heavily promotes recycling yet refuses to accept any PET (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethylene_terephth ... materials other than 20 oz soda bottles. Even if they're in the same PET class (e.g. chemically the same plastic).
Think of all the money from the anti-pot ads that we could be putting into recycling education. (And I don't smoke out... I just don't see a rational difference between pot and alcohol, other than the fact that the government heavily taxes one and not the other). - Strongo, on 04/26/2008, -3/+2there is nothing secret about this. We also fix elections and our leaders profit from war. Nothing hidden here.
- kamisama, on 04/26/2008, -1/+3I switched to glass bottles about 3 years ago for water and such, even though they are going out of fashion. You get money back when you return them and they can also be reused. And to be honest a good classic coca cola tastes the best when it's in one of those little glass bottles.
- pastevensonjr, on 04/26/2008, -0/+7Product Percent of Total
Finished Motor Gasoline 51.4%
Distillate Fuel Oil 15.3%
Jet Fuel 12.3%
Still Gas 5.4%
Marketable Coke 5.0%
Residual Fuel Oil 3.3%
Liquefied Refinery Gas 2.8%
Asphalt and Road Oil 1.7%
Other Refined Products 1.5%
Lubricants 0.9%- userperson, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1... and I bet water bottles are more than all that combined. /s
- MattInChicago, on 04/27/2008, -7/+5This stuff is just fodder for self-righteous posts by people who REALLY don't give a *****! Any of you use the canvas bags for your groceries? Anyone? Nooooo you take the plastic. Recycle? yeah...you know where that goes? China you dip *****! It all gets shipped over where most of it is just buried or worse. If we all switched to paper, guess how many trees would be cut down never mind the strength needed will allow for only 20% post-consumer waste. There are no "easy" answers and you all love to jerk off to these kinds of posts so you can feel better about how little you really do in your own life to make any sort of difference. You make me sick.
- bdbr, on 04/27/2008, -0/+4You might be surprised how many of us use canvas bags and recycle. Just from a functionality standpoint, those plastic bags are complete crap compared to thick canvas.
- elipabst, on 04/27/2008, -0/+8"Recycle? yeah...you know where that goes? China you dip *****"
No it doesn't moron. I worked in a recycling plant near Albany NY for a summer that got its plastics from NY city's recycling program. Worst f*cking job ever (imagine week old spoiled milk in the summer heat) but I can 100% guarantee they weren't just getting shipped to China, because I was the poor schlep sorting them by type. They then got shredded and remolded into beads that were sold to plastic manufacturers. - betona, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1I don't worry one bit about trees and paper because the trees are farmed for paper, and they've been planting exponentially more trees than they harvest for paper for almost a century. They don't cut down old-growth forests for paper.
Paper in a landfill is a different issue, and that's a place we can reduce a lot. - NYankee2003, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1You're exactly right... we need free market solutions to these problems, a few self righteous people can't make a dent.
- JointVenture, on 04/27/2008, -1/+7Im going to hire an Ethinopian to carry my water hom
