What is Digg?69 Comments
- BigManOnCampus, on 09/03/2008, -10/+69Wow, just wow... I swear these uber-greenies contradict themselves so often it's like their mind cannot progress in any direction.
FTA:
"1. Why make stuff out of it when you can eat it?"
Good question, ask your fellow greenies who came up with biodegradable plastic that one.
"2. You can't always recycle it."
So what? Assuming all plastics were biodegradable, then this wouldn't be an issue, now would it? So your solution is simple, make all plastic utensils out of biodegradable stuff, problem solved.
"3. It could make plastic recycling impossible."
I hate to break it to you, Mr Greenie, but Plastic Recycling costs more money than it makes, and isn't a clean process on the environment itself. Hence the abandonment of plastic recycling in favor of biodegradable plastics is a good thing.
"4. Compostable doesn't mean compostable."
Stupid, just stupid. You people scream and shout because something will sit in a landfill for hundreds or thousands of years and when someone comes out with something that when thrown away will only last 50 years in the dirt you say, "that's not good enough, it needs to vanish in a week." Simply stupid.
"5. It's never made from organic corn, and generally made from genetically modified corn."
Oh my god. Listen to what the hell you're saying. You're essentially making the argument, that when carried to it's conclusion sounds something like this...Unless those plastic forks spring out of seed-pods from naturally occurring, non-genetically modified trees, it simply isn't natural enough to be used.
"6. It makes low quality plastic. Instead of solving the problem of the disposable society, bio-plastics generally can only be made into disposable items."
Right, and hybrid cars are too complicated and can't haul trailers, but that doesn't stop people from buying them. Oh and I love the little bit about how bio-plastics are somehow bad because they can only be made into things that can be thrown away, as if that wasn't the ***** point in the first place.
"7. It's good marketing, but bad honesty."
wtf?
"8. What's wrong with storing carbon in landfills?"
Ask the greenies that one. That's generally what happens on any normal day. - JAVandiver, on 09/03/2008, -2/+14The song is "It Ain't Easy Bein' Green"...
- inactive, on 09/03/2008, -0/+11"Though bioplastic definitely isn't causing an increase in the price of food, it's not impossible to imagine it."
This may be the single stupidest sentence in the article. "This isn't actually a problem, but let's pretend that it is for argument's sake! So it's bad!"
Bioplastics are awesome. Though they have some drawbacks, it's not impossible to imagine they don't. So they're flawless. - treehuggermum, on 09/03/2008, -3/+14No-one said being green was easy, or simple.
- wendelgee2, on 09/03/2008, -0/+8I'm a greenie, and I agree with you.
- oldhick, on 09/03/2008, -1/+9It's extremely important that people remember, recycling does NOT help the environment. Using fewer resources does.
http://www.griffex.com/Griff-gpec-and-tables.pdf
http://people.clemson.edu/~wahoo/211/recycling%20m ...
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/125040/is ...
http://www.lockjawslair.com/archives/2005/06/paper ... - tjex, on 09/03/2008, -1/+8Buried for inaccuracy as stated above.
We should all start eating with our hands! I mean honestly, that would be the most eco way to do it and also the most messy and maybe the most fun. - Scaryclouds, on 09/03/2008, -1/+7I remembering hearing awhile back about a bioplastic made from orange peels. I wonder if that is/was any better?
EDIT:
Here is the article: http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/Jan05/orangeP ... - marktastic, on 09/03/2008, -0/+6Think of the keyboards :'(
- billybibbit, on 09/03/2008, -0/+6most of these have nothing to do with regular plastic being "better", they are just areas that need improvement in bioplastic.
also, the first point is seriously flawed. why make plastic from petroleum when you can burn it? - digggggggggg, on 09/03/2008, -0/+5Or how about utensils made of "metal"? "Metal" (pronounced 'metl) is a material that works well, looks good, and lasts a long time. Oh yeah, and it's been around for a long time too... imagine that.
- n1eb, on 09/03/2008, -1/+6I'd like to see the same type of article written for biofuels such as biodiesel and methanol.
- PoonGnarfler, on 09/03/2008, -1/+6I'm fairly sure that one of the largest reasons that this article missed is the lack of regulation in the industry towards more eco-friendly plastics. I just took a plastics processing class, and the professor was all pissed off because he had just dealt with a company that made completely non-biodegradable, non-recyclable potato starch derived plastic products, and then marketed their products as "green" and "environmentally friendly" to people who didn't know any better (actually one customer was my campus' dining establishments, thus my professor being pissed). Until there is regulation in the industry, people will continue to be duped by companies like this, and actual companies that are trying to legitimately do better, be environmentally friendly, etc. either can't compete or aren't getting the consumer response they should be receiving.
Edit: I think that is kinda what they were trying to say in the "good marketing, bad honesty" section, but they managed to make it completely unclear. - Amazetbm, on 09/03/2008, -0/+4Why does bio-anything have to keep coming from corn? If you want folks to get behind it use something that isn't a food source. Most bio-based products can be produced from cellulose and can get that from algae.
- wunksta, on 09/03/2008, -1/+5reduction is better than recycling
but alternatives to most uses of disposable plastic would be good
as for the food thing, i think research into algae production is showing a lot of promise and would be better than the gmo offered solutions - Ghoztt, on 09/03/2008, -2/+6Burried as inaccurate....
for great justice. - BuckCynnie, on 09/03/2008, -0/+4That should be retitled to "8 Reasons to blah blah blah" and subtitled "How NOT to make an argument for regular plastic"
- centran, on 09/03/2008, -0/+3About the only thing a agree with(to some extent) is #2 You can't always recycle it. AND #3 It could make plastic recycling impossible
All bioplastic is labeled under #7 recycling or "Other". It is time to expand the recycling labeling to include more forms of plastic such as bioplastic.
Oh and this was the most stupid one on the list - #5 It's never made from organic corn, and generally made from genetically modified corn.
There really is no such thing as organic corn. We so bastardized that crop it is not even funny. - watcht, on 09/03/2008, -1/+4Why not make bioplastic/corn plastic tasty and nontoxic so people would eat them rather than chucking them out in the grass. Like make a water bottle have fruit flavors while drinking it and eating it as you were finishing up the water. I dont see it as hard as making those crazy cereals that kids eat with god knows what ingredients.
- monsterette, on 09/03/2008, -0/+3wow....guess we'll have to put an ingredients list on plastic utensils or maybe start whittling our own utensils....or...just use our hands...
- oldhick, on 09/03/2008, -0/+3I'm just trying to make a point that consumption is the real problem and recycling is just exacerbating the problem... I try to provide a little evidence.
But screw it, you're right. Why discuss things when we can just attack each other! - digggggggggg, on 09/03/2008, -0/+3The author really doesn't seem to understand how food works around the world, as evident by the statement "There are lots of hungry people in the world" used against making bioplastics.
The reality is, the net amount of food in the world is not in shortage. The amount of grain and corn grown in the United States alone is capable of feeding several billion people. However, solving hunger isn't as simple as shipping this grain overseas to the people who need it. When we give away this food to needy countries that aren't in a state of emergency, we aren't doing them a favor. Local farming and industry rely on local sales and possibly subsidies to make profit and survive. They simply can't compete with food that's sent to them for free. Over time, they'll be perpetually dependent on foreign aid. It's a complicated problem that's only exacerbated with excessive aid. - BXRWXR, on 09/03/2008, -8/+10Kermit did.
- ravenprice, on 09/03/2008, -0/+2It's such a shame it took us so long to look for alternatives for plastic or fuel. Every single thing you consume in your short life has huge consequences so maybe it's time we really start thinking about how we can enjoy things in life without ruining our environment and ourselves.
- wunksta, on 09/03/2008, -0/+2algae can be used as a food source! haha
but yeah, plus its much more efficient i believe, at least in terms of energy. havent looked at the numbers for plastic creation - SamTac, on 09/03/2008, -2/+4Such nonsensical points the author makes...How can we actually say biodegradable plastic is noticeably worse then non-biodegradable plastic...None of these points were convincing enough for me to switch to evil plastic.
Either way: paper > plastic. - billbugger, on 09/03/2008, -1/+3Reduce - Reuse - Recycle
There is a reason it's the last on the list. - locke2002, on 09/03/2008, -0/+2Thank you sir. As I read the article I couldn't help but imagining writing a point-by-point rebuttal exactly as you've done. Thankfully you wrote it, because my laziness would've won out anyway...
- askantik, on 09/03/2008, -0/+2Reason why bioplastics are worse than regular plastics: it reinforces that it's OK to just throw away rather than REDUCE and RECYCLE... so then it becomes "green" to throw away something that only decomposes after 6 months in a perfectly controlled lab setting-- which is far different than a landfill environment. I've never read anything that emphasized recycling or reducing half as much as it emphasized how "green" a material was. It doesn't matter what ***** is made out of-- at some point we have to realize we can't just use and use and use incessantly. But no one with any power or influence will ever say that... Meh.
- waspbr, on 09/03/2008, -1/+3***** dumb FUD article.
- inactive, on 09/03/2008, -0/+1Corn's become a hot commodity these days. I know farmers in Brazil are going crazy about that.
Don't ask me why I know about Brazilian farmers. I think I read it a long time ago. - TheMachine1, on 09/03/2008, -0/+1Corn stover and other agriculture waste.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_stover - chadszinow, on 09/03/2008, -0/+1Seems bio plastic is the right direction to me. See http://www.vpro.nl/programma/tegenlicht/aflevering ...
Waste = Food
It's a doco on a new movement to eliminate waste by turning it into food for the biosphere. Big companies like Ford and Nike are in it and it's the best thing I've seen when it comes to protecting the environment while still running a profitable business. Forget sustainability, this is the next industrial revolution which has already started.
PS If it doesn't play there is a button to the right which says "opslaan". Clicking it will make it play. - inactive, on 09/03/2008, -1/+2In a few years I'll be smoking legal homegrown outta my biodegradable, solar powered vaporization bong.
- flashingcurser, on 09/03/2008, -0/+1Or green...
- mos6507, on 09/03/2008, -0/+1Oil is for eating.
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2004/02/0079915 - flashingcurser, on 09/03/2008, -0/+1Can't they just make marijuana cars? Oh wait, never mind, that was movie I watched years ago.....
- mos6507, on 09/03/2008, -2/+3You want to help the environment? Get a vasectomy.
- zip000, on 09/04/2008, -0/+1It seems weird that something made from a potato is not biodegradable. I guess there are a lot of not-so-environmentally-friendly steps between potato and plastic cup.
- ulmedas, on 09/03/2008, -1/+2There is more often than not, good cause for government regulation. Here here.
- wunksta, on 09/03/2008, -0/+1reduce consumption and wastefulness > paper > plastic
- BuckCynnie, on 09/03/2008, -0/+1Alcohol is for drinking!
- sering, on 11/25/2008, -0/+1that's nice
http://ekkei.com
http://forexposed.com
http://tembol.freehostia.com/ - digggggggggg, on 09/03/2008, -0/+1Grain is a category of food, while cellulose is a kind of carbohydrate that plants use for their structure.
In regards to your last sentence, my question is, where are we going to get that cellulose from? - cluckcluck, on 09/12/2008, -0/+1Not to mention a vast majority of the corn that is grown in the US is not the kind of corn that humans can eat directly. It can only be used as a raw material for other things, like corn syrup (SICK), or as animal feed.
- DrReaper, on 09/04/2008, -0/+1Industrial Hemp is the real deal. Corn is a scam to put people off of ethanol and bio-plastic. really they were unable to sell their genetically modified corn to Europe so they passed a law to use it in other ways. pure greed.
- cheezintern, on 09/03/2008, -0/+1That's what I was thinking. Most of the 'problems' listed are simply the result of a product in its infancy (of course bioplastics have been around for years, but there hasn't been a great deal of R&D).
- slapthemonkey, on 09/04/2008, -0/+1Paper is much better whatever the kind of plastic
- newsboys, on 09/04/2008, -0/+1What about Biosolar? They make a bioplasic from cotton and castor beans.
http://www.photonicsonline.com/article.mvc/BioSola ... - yoda133113, on 09/03/2008, -0/+1because burning petroleum is bad to environmentalists, but eating is generally considered a good thing.
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