What is Digg?267 Comments
- maddvibe, on 05/10/2008, -3/+78Want!
- themonkman, on 05/10/2008, -7/+49WTF? Jetta's aren't like the Beetle. They look as neutral as any other coupe or sedan. Plus on my TDI I get 45mpg. Keep driving your F250's. I'll be saving buttloads of cash and taking out your girl with the bankroll :)
- winmywii, on 05/10/2008, -2/+44True, but if you can get 60mpg it will still be cheaper than most cars.
- sb07, on 05/10/2008, -5/+46honda civics and toyota corollas are great...but vw tdi technology just beats them in every way
- dizilbdog, on 05/10/2008, -2/+38Let's hope VW can change the views of stupid American's who think diesels are just big busses which spew big black smoke. Diesel has come along way, and I think have a diesel engine turbo charged with some battery power is a much better package than a Toyota Prius.
- davidryal, on 05/10/2008, -47/+82now, if only males were allowed to drive Jettas...
- theaterman, on 05/10/2008, -17/+51Too bad Diesel fuel is going to be over $5.00 a gallon by mid summer.
- insllvn, on 05/10/2008, -4/+32I am so glad that my masculinity and self image aren't tied to what kind of car I drive. That would make me such a huge douche bag...
PS. I love my Jetta. - DeskFlyer, on 05/10/2008, -7/+32VWTDIFTW
- themonkman, on 05/10/2008, -0/+21Don't forget that the diesel engine will outlast the body of the car itself. Diesel engines are almost always made from a solid iron block (like my 98 Jetta TDI). Compared to aluminum blocks, they last much longer. I expect to get 300,000+ off of mine. So far it has 187,000 miles with zero engine problems. It still runs like it's brand new, even though it's 10 years old.
- inactive, on 05/10/2008, -1/+22TDI amazing as always
- seandaly, on 05/10/2008, -5/+22I know...
1/2 of you boys are saying "geeez, that's pretty cool, but I don't produce nearly enough estrogen to own a Jetta" while the other 1/2 is saying "yeah, 60mpg is sweet but diesel is going to be a million dollars a gallon by summer, so it doesn't matter".
The big thing to remember here is that a diesel can be made to run on practically any oil, which means bio-diesel and blends could seriously bring the cost down. While the standard oil refining process produces 2X gasoline vs diesel per barrel of oil, they can shift that towards diesel if demand rose.
As cool as this is, I'd rather see VW take some of the TDI clean technology and apply it to a 25hp diesel designed to run at 3600 RPM for hours at a time (generator engine) and build a real plug-in / series hybrid. There are some generators out there producing close to 8Kw and while sipping just over 1/2 gallon of diesel per hour. With Lithium Ion batteries, it's not unrealistic to see ranges of 200 miles per charge on an all eclectic vehicle not unlike what we buy today (not Tesla). Add a 7500 watt Diesel generator in the mix and we might see the range extended by another 60 to 100 miles, yet burn less than a gallon of diesel (or insert your preferred oil here). Stuff a slightly larger generator in there and we could see 250 + 150 extended ranges while burning less than 2 gallons of diesel.
Quit being obsessed with raw power people.
First - formal relationship. On paper, one horse power equals 736 watt. So, say 200 hp amounts to 147,200 watts, or ~147 kW. This, however, doesn't mean you need 147 kW electric motor for your car to perform the same as 200 hp gasoline counterpart, and this is why: The power of ICE (Internal Combustion Engines) are always specified at max horse power (or kW) it can produce at the best spot - certain RPM, let say 3000 RPM. Maximum power is almost never achieved because engine does not spend any length of time running at 3000 RPM at full power (unless you clime up a steep hill), you will certainly accelerate. So typically the RPM ramps up from ~500 RPM to ~5000 RPM, thus having peak power output just for a fraction of second when crossing 3000 RPM mark. To cruise with steady speed on a freeway it takes about 12 hp and the only reason we have 200 hp engines is to be able to accelerate or pass quickly.
So, the vast majority of the time your 200 hp engine really runs at 12 hp. If you ask what *average* power an ICE engine makes in a usable RPM range, it will be about 30-40 hp for 200 *peak* hp engine.
In contrast, electric motors are always rated at maximum continuous power output, say 30 kW (which is 40.8 hp). The motor can output peak power at least 5 times of it's rated power (if supplied with enough energy), so a 30 kW motor can give you 150 kW (or 203 hp) for acceleration or passing. So in a first approximation 30 kW motor will give you at least the same performance as a 200 hp engine in the same car. Essentially, electric motors are better because they develop full torque instantly right from the start (0 rpm) while ICE do not make any power until the shaft ramps up to at least 500 RPM. So as a rough rule of thumb, an ICE engine with X hp power will equate to the electric motor with X/4 hp electric motor rating. In this example, a 200 hp engine (making 30-40 hp average) will need to be replaced with 200/4=50 hp motor. Since 1 hp is 0.736 kW, 50 hp motor is 50*0.736=36.8 kW. Now, imagine sticking a few decently sized 10kW super-capacitors in mix and you have all the power you could ever want available, yet the ability to optimally use as little energy as required when driving economically.
It's all out there, we're just waiting for someone to combine it, run it through real R&D and give us a usable product.
In the meantime, I'd settle for one of these Jetta's :) - dlsspy, on 05/10/2008, -1/+18Gasoline will, too, but you won't be getting 60MPG.
- MasterChi, on 05/10/2008, -4/+20That'll be great. Unfortunately without proper advertisement people will still be buying the Prius even though it gets less MPG then this.
- scotticus, on 05/10/2008, -5/+18You didn't realize that gas prices were going to continue to rise when you bought that monstrosity?
- MixMastaKooz, on 05/10/2008, -0/+13Yea, at $5 a gallon and getting 60 mpg then it would cost $.083 per mile. At 3.50 a gallon for regular and getting 33 mpg, the cost per mile is $.106. Even with diesel at $5 a gallon, you're still saving around 2 cents a mile.
- inactive, on 05/10/2008, -4/+17If VW would only warranty more than a 5% biodiesel blend...
- TruthKid, on 05/10/2008, -1/+13I believe those 70mpg numebrs were assuming you were driving in a vacuum on a 50 degree day when jupiter and saturn were in line with the sun.
- protodon, on 05/10/2008, -1/+13oh they're not oops. amazing what you will do when you no one's telling you that you can't.
- NoPis10, on 05/10/2008, -0/+12I'm actually a driver in the new series that just started that uses these cars. It will be broadcast on speedtv in the fall. The cars are a blast and the motors are completely stock. Even on the track during the race we were getting 25mpg when most race cars don't do better than the single digits. For more info go to http://www.vw.com/vwhype/motorsport/en/us/#/jetta_ ...
btw, still looking for a sponsor to cover the entry fee into the series. I'm Adam Love and this is my first time ever racing w2w. Didn't do too badly for my first race. Next one is next weekend and it's in canada. - vuke69, on 05/10/2008, -2/+14WTF is wrong with a Jetta?
- inactive, on 05/10/2008, -9/+21There is no hope for the price of fuel to ever go back down ever. Look for alternatives now, before the oil companies start asking for your children as payment.
- cl2yp71c, on 05/10/2008, -2/+13*Puts on shopping list*
- vuke69, on 05/10/2008, -3/+13Homophobe much?
What are you guys like 12 ***** years old? "Oh, I'm not going to buy one of THOSE cars, I had a friend once that said only gay guys own them."
Oh, and BTW, I drive a Subaru, AND like to eat pussy. Coincidence?... I think not. - Baskins, on 05/10/2008, -3/+13Dear car manufacturers,
Oh, I see. So you ~do~ have the ability to make vehicles with reduced emissions while at the same time increasing mileage. Feel free to stop whining and get yourselves into the 21st century already. - 0260, on 05/10/2008, -0/+9now a diesel rabbit, please
- inactive, on 05/10/2008, -1/+9He was talking about the Jetta being neutral, you idiot.
- MisterWhite, on 05/10/2008, -1/+9People who aren't homophobic?
- MrFoof82, on 05/10/2008, -1/+9This is not intended as a flame, but...
45mpg in a Civic? Seriously?
Hear me out. After my Evolution VIII MR was reduced to a mangled pile of aluminum by a stoplight runner, I listened to family and friends for some stupid reason. I bought a Toyota Corolla, since they all had one (seriously, I had the gaudy looking thing with the carbon fiber spoiler that looked like it was being ganged up on on Corollas at family gatherings). They all said "omgmileage" and "reliability" and such enough that I took their advice and bought the automobile equivalent of a toaster.
So in theory the thing is supposed to get an average of 35mpg highway. At normal sane human speeds. And as much as I tried to flatten acceleration curves, and to sit in the right-most lane at 62mph... it could only manage 33mpg. You could get 35mpg if you dropped your speed to more around 57mph, but in a 65mph zone with 4 lanes of angry massholes, even staying in the right-most lane would risk angry stares from nonagenarians.
Of course, if I flogged the car and cruised at 80-85mph, took ramps at 65mph with the cruddy OEM Goodyear Integrity tires howling (what a godawful tire, btw), it'd get 30-31mpg.
It was an 08. My father claimed his 02 got around 38mpg if he drove it in a geezerly fashion. It got more around 33-34mpg if he pretended he was still street racing in his old Chevy Nova. Of course his car weighs around 200 or 250lbs less, so that likely explains it all.
So assume I got a Civic EX 5spd instead. 1 more gear than the gutless slushbox. And 50 pounds lighter. Unless the engine is only turning over at 1800rpm at 65mph -- which is what I'd expect out of a 4-literish V8, not a 1.8L inline-4 -- I fail to see how I might get better than... 36 or 37mpg.
As for the Corolla, I ditched it after 6 months and 9000 miles. It was a pleasure writing in another $2500 on my downpayment on an MX-5 to rid myself of the inequity. And since my apartment lease was up, I now live 5 miles from work instead of 58 miles, and get 25mpg beating the living daylights out of my roadster.
The only people I know getting 45mpg out of their cars while drumming on them? Friends with older 02 or 03 Jetta/Golf TDIs get close to that with heavy right feet. 48 if one drives like an old man. - WiLLGT09, on 05/10/2008, -0/+7i think you thinking of ethanol fuel. maybe the biodiesel currently is mostly from corn also, but there are other plant sources that are easier to make biodiesel.
- 0260, on 05/10/2008, -0/+7thats european cycle of testing mpg. US mpg is always less
- jgallagher721, on 05/10/2008, -0/+7Citation needed.
- dhughes, on 05/10/2008, -1/+8 Not just the block but everything in the engine stronger and heavy duty. Also there are no spark plugs, plug wires or distributor. Diesels are durable, but not indestructible.
- pencilneck, on 05/10/2008, -2/+9Huh? Cars don't make for ***** drivers... some people are just ***** drivers no matter what kind of car they are in.
- TruthKid, on 05/10/2008, -1/+8So lets see, jetta owners love guys, subaru owners love to eat pussy, and van owners love children. Got it
- peestandingup, on 05/10/2008, -0/+6http://www.greasecar.com/
- pell, on 05/10/2008, -0/+6Also you will use half the gas most cars use. So although it is pricey, it will cost less overall for gas.
- Artimusbill, on 05/10/2008, -0/+6You are thinking of Ethanol. And yes, ethanol produced from corn, or any of our food crops is a very bad thing.
- peestandingup, on 05/10/2008, -0/+6And where did you get this info??
- raz98, on 05/10/2008, -0/+6is not a lie, I have this engine in the Skoda Octavia, is basically the same car. You can get 60mpg (~4 liters/100km ?) but only outside towns if you keep your car constant at 90-100km/h or so. I even manage to get 3.5liters/100km one time. But I usually don't drive this way, also here where I live we have more busy roads and not so much highways and I have to overtake all the time, but my consummation is around 5.4/100km which is not bad at all considering the conditions.
- cheesypasta, on 05/10/2008, -1/+7The base Prius averages 44 mpg in real world driving. Who knows what this Jetta will really get.
- onesidedsquare, on 05/10/2008, -2/+7my wife got me to buy one, i learned afterwards what it means :-(
- Rbstr, on 05/10/2008, -0/+5The TDI jetta doesn't need the AdBlue, It uses a particulate filter and an NOX catalyst.
The AdBlue systems are mainly for larger diesels. - raz98, on 05/10/2008, -1/+6I have this engine in my Octavia which is basically the same car, although I don't have the particle filter. It's a pretty fun engine to drive, it has a a huge amount of torque (320NM) early, from 1750rpm.The DSG gearbox is a dream, although the 6 manual speed gearbox is also good. And after you get tired of the 140bhp, you can easily tune your engine (a simple reprogramming of the ECU), to 170 bhp and 400NM, and be in the safe zone (clutch and turbine safe).
- bigred, on 05/10/2008, -0/+5Deny it all you want, but cooking oil is not the same viscosity as diesel fuel at 90 degrees, even when you heat it to 200 degrees. So your injection pump has to work harder to push the thicker fuel through your injectors, it doesn't atomize properly when spraying out of the injectors, and tiny droplets will stick to your pistons, and cylinder walls, and then burn slowly on them. This will cause your piston rings to wear out, you'll score your cylinder walls, and in extreme cases you'll melt a hole through your piston.
And that's not to mention all the unburned fuel that will build up on your exhaust valves, restricting airflow. It's not a good idea to run these things in a direct injection engine, thats not just me saying that, do some research. These kits work quite well in an IDI engine (indirect injection), where you have a pre-combustion chamber where the fuel starts burning before going into the cylinder. The old Mercedes Turbo Diesel engines were IDI, as well as the Volkswagen diesels up to 1999.
So I'm just trying to warn anyone that sees your comment on digg, and has a DI engine, who figures "OMG Free fuel" and then ends up with a $3000-4000 repair bill, because they didn't do their research. - gl77, on 05/10/2008, -0/+5i realize that this post was moronic after i posted it. please bury.
- Evi1d33d, on 05/10/2008, -0/+550HP electric car = 200HP gas car.
- lacronicus, on 05/10/2008, -1/+7It's what smart people like to call a "knowledgeable post."
- Azio, on 05/10/2008, -4/+9Not true, my parents have had 2 jettas, a 1996 and a 2004, over 2.5 million km on them combined, with no major problems at all. I think we had to replace one of the power windows on the old one once.
Furthermore, diesels are significantly more reliable than gasoline cars - jchrome, on 05/10/2008, -1/+6That's what we call 'bad karma'.
*ba-dum-dum* -
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