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92 Comments
- audiologic, on 08/23/2008, -1/+20Well, trees are, for the most part, a renewable resource.
I am going to go ahead and speak for the SE US. I won't say anything else for anywhere else because I do not know.
Approx 70% of tree based products in the southeastern US come from private land owners who manage their land. When done properly trees are a highly renewable resource and a little bit just like large scale farming.
A managed pine forest goes as follows. Planting of the seedlings, allowing them to grow for 18 years. After 18 years the forest is thinned and the best trees at that time are taken out to allow further growth. Additionally a controlled burn takes place to burn out underbrush. After another 7 years another thinning take place. Each thinning brings the land owner about $1000 per acre. Then finally, after the pine trees are 30 to 40 years old, the land is clear cut and all trees are harvested for lumber. This brings the owner about $3000 per acre. After the clear cut the land is burnt and the process starts over again - planting a new set of pine seedlings.
Lastly, Forest size in the SE US has increased over 60 percent between 1977 and today. This is a clear indication that we as a population are starting to put a handle on our logging resources.
Source: John Monroe, Forester. http://monroetimberland.com
I personally reiterate however that this is just for the SE US. I understand that the rainforests, other world forests, etc are a whole nother issue. I have not looked heavily looked into them so I will not speak about them. - jmpeagle, on 08/23/2008, -2/+19well since paper in the U.S. is made from tree farms that just means 100 million or so trees are planted and another 100 million are cut down each year.
- jamesL70, on 08/23/2008, -2/+18Are cheaper stamps worth 100,000,000 tree's? If the post office didn't have to deliver this stuff, I wonder how much downsizing they could do.
- dire9wolf, on 08/23/2008, -1/+15They have a do not call list for telemarketers, why cant they have a do not mail list for junk mail?
- MaxIsBored, on 08/23/2008, -0/+12Just so i got things straight here BillE3, you're justifying the cutting of 100,000,000 trees just to keep the prices of first class down?
100,000,000 a year isn't worth having first class at all, nevermind at a few cents more. What's more valueable to you, BillE3; bieng able to mail your great grand kids on rush becuase you forgot their birthday, or being able to mail nobody, because they're all ***** dead? - cybrguy, on 08/22/2008, -1/+13I'm glad spam doesn't keep the cost of email down... That would be a nightmare
- UtahApocalyse, on 08/23/2008, -0/+8a better solution. Open up 1st class to other competitors . Think about how UPS, FedEx and other changed, and reduced shipping. They also generally have better service.
- MaxIsBored, on 08/23/2008, -0/+8Or you could use yesterdays' newspaper, which burn better, or yesterdays bills, which are a more satisfying burn.
- perogi21, on 08/23/2008, -0/+6I typically only use the USPS for netflix.
- inactive, on 08/23/2008, -1/+7Read up on tree farms. They're large farms where trees are grown specifically for paper manufacturing. They're not cutting down the rainforest for your junkmail. Do some ***** research.
- 2Deluxe, on 08/23/2008, -0/+5While I understand 100million trees sounds like a lot, anyone have some illustrated examples? Like I have no visual representation when reading numbers. That could be huge if there are only 600million tress on the planet, but miniscule if there are several trillion.
An example map of a real landmass with '100million' space blacked out would be helpful. - boneit, on 08/23/2008, -1/+6That's their problem, they need to revise their obsolete business model. Without all the crap they ferry around, their vehicle and fuel costs will drop considerable. Like other countries, they could probably deliver real mail on a bike.
What pisses me off the most is the unmailed garbage they dump on every household, which they refuse to let you opt out from. I've managed to get the genuinely mailed crap down to a minimum by simply getting on the don't-fscking-mail-me lists, and returning their crap in their own pre-paid envelops, with a large "remove from contact list" on their forms. It took a while, but it works. Local merchants are a different matter, they don't honor the mailing preference lists and pull extracts from public records for their ***** mailing campaigns.
Anything that can be recognized as crap without even opening gets "return to sender" written on it. This doesn't seem to work, I think they get dumped, they mailer just triggers another. I find it sad that bulk mailers get cheaper rates than the rest of us.
The real problem is most people are way too lazy to even attempt to reduce the ***** they receive. In my area they don't even recycle it, off to the incinerator it goes. And they wonder why they put out two full trash bins twice a week while we put on one every couple of weeks. - inactive, on 08/23/2008, -1/+6i hate the bunch of fliers i get every week
i a m not running down to ace hardware because light bulbs are 99 cents off this week
it annoys me
and even if trees are a farm product i still find the whole system objectionable
it isn't only the trees that count it is the landfills full of brightly colored adverts hardly anyone reads the dyes also run off into the water supply contaminating it and harming the water life
it is just all wrong imho - AndrewMoyer, on 08/23/2008, -2/+6Before you mod me down for this next sentence, read my whole post...
I work in the "direct mail" industry, and I have some insight to share on this subject.
I can tell you for sure there is a do not mail list. In fact, there are a few that I can think of. They are "voluntary" and there are no penalties to mailers for ignoring it, but I can tell you this: If you've gone through the trouble of signing up to not receive direct mail, our customers don't want to waste the twenty-odd cents of postage by sending you a piece of mail that will only make you (possibly already a customer) angry (moreso than somebody who hasn't made the effort) when they know for certain you will only throw it away and/or call and complain.
The main one you'd want to sign up for is officially operated by the Direct Marketers Association. I believe it's free online, but if you send in a snailmail form (go figure), they charge you $1 for processing.
I think their official site is:
http://www.dmachoice.org/
Pretty much all major mailers are affiliated with the DMA, and enterprise class presort systems work with frequently updated "do not mail" lists.
It sucks to read how many trees are destroyed yearly by our industry. For our operations, we recycle as much as possible and take green initiatives. We can only hope that the consumers we mail to participate in paper recycling programs as well.
I am not speaking on behalf of any company nor the industry... these are just my personal comments.
Cheers. - MaxIsBored, on 08/23/2008, -1/+5I ***** hate junk email. I have a "no flyers please" sign painted on my mailbox, and i still get loads of the ***** every day. If i ever see some ***** spamming my mailbox with junk i'm going to stuff the ***** up his ass.
- inactive, on 08/23/2008, -1/+4they do i think it is called green dimes or something
but it is not effortless you have to do some work
one simple thing is when you order something over the net say and they start sending you catalogs is to contact them and tell them not to share your address
i think there should be as you suggest a one call or one internet intervention option to prevent all unasked for promotional mail - daveisfera, on 08/23/2008, -0/+3They do. You can do it by calling (888) 5-OPTOUT or (888) 567-8688 to opt out of pre-approved offers of credit or go online to http://www.optoutprescreen.com/
You can read more about what legal and what's not at http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs6-crdt.htm#5 or https://www.dmachoice.org/MPS/proto1.php - UtahApocalyse, on 08/23/2008, -1/+4That would be the mail man. its a federal offense to refuse mail delivary
- david76, on 08/23/2008, -0/+3Interesting article, no actionable information.
If you're going to discuss a problem, discuss what people can do about it.
The Direct Marketing Association has an opt-out feature. Not sure how well it's followed.
https://www.dmachoice.org/MPS/proto1.php - Tarnum, on 08/23/2008, -1/+4Spam = free firestarters for the wood-fired bbq.
- GardenRetreat, on 08/23/2008, -0/+2thanks for info
- ByrcheWroot, on 08/23/2008, -0/+2If you're sick of credit card offers, look closely at the bottom of one. There is an "opt out" option at the bottom of each. Call that number. It took a couple months for the result but, I went from probably a dozen mailers a week to zero.
- MaxIsBored, on 08/23/2008, -1/+3Technically it does, because email companies use advertising (popups, and ads) to pay for their email servers :(
- arkaycee, on 08/23/2008, -2/+4Trees may (in some places) be renewable ... but logging them generates air pollution (I don't think anyone is using hand saws to cut them down for over a century now). Making them into paper, and bleaching that paper white or coloring it generates a f*ckton of water pollution. Then flying it (mostly for the long distance parts) and driving it around and you're back to air pollution. And for all that's not recycled, you're filling up landfills unnecessarily; and ever for what IS recycled, that still uses energy and generates some pollution ... all for something that was mostly never ever useful in the first place (like 1 piece in 100 or 1000 may actually do something for the company).
- Witchboy, on 08/23/2008, -1/+3This is another way in which companies are not fairly paying for the damage they're inflicting: They've externalized the costs, making someone else pay for the deforestation.
And, as far as driving up the cost of stamps by capping/reducing junk mail, so what? The Postal Service would need a lot fewer employees, trucks, gas etc if they didn't have to carry all that meaningless crap from door to door too. So it all works out. - GardenRetreat, on 08/23/2008, -0/+2thanks for information on do not mail list...and your side of the story
- jamesL70, on 08/23/2008, -0/+2Yes tree's grow and keep growing, thats not the whole point. It takes energy to move a fallen tree to the paper mill (fossil fuels), it takes energy to operate the paper mill (fossil fuels), got to get that paper to the printers (fossil fuels), got to get the junk mail to my mailbox (fossil fuels), the garbage men have to haul it to a land fill (fossil fuels).
If we could put that energy to more productive uses, we would have less pollution and less dependence on foreign oil. - DrJG, on 08/23/2008, -0/+2As long as it is not reaponsible for chopping trees, it is only irritating.
- inactive, on 08/23/2008, -0/+2no they are not
especially since so much communication is done by email - inactive, on 08/23/2008, -0/+2@Audio, how do you explain clearcutting then?
http://journal.davidbyrne.com/images/09_30_06_b_ad ...
My friend is a retired arborist and while he'll be the first person to agree with you that tree farms are the best way to go, but you cannot assume that all of your paper goods come from "green" farms like the ones you speak of. Clear cutting is a real problem and it destroys the environment and habitats of wildlife and the amount of illegal logging that goes on in the industry is a disgrace. - inactive, on 08/23/2008, -0/+2Right, and absolutely no energy is used to grow these trees, cut them down, process them and make them into paper? If you check out the real statistics on the matter, you will find that even though the trees are planted, the overall effect on the environment is negative. You would have to plant a surplus of what you've cut in order to make a dent on the pollution and waste that is created by all of the machines and factories which are part of the process.
- inactive, on 08/24/2008, -0/+1Leave it to the government to ban anything which threatens the status quo. You can't even get high from it.
- mabhatter, on 08/25/2008, -0/+1spam is not pops and ads don't confuse the two, those are chosen to be there by the web page author to help pay the bills the same as commercials on TV and Radio.
- mabhatter, on 08/25/2008, -0/+1they put $1 thru to verify your real mailing address against the credit card then put it right back when it clears. This way you are not signing up to stop mail services that are not yours to cancel... that would be credit card fraud, wire fraud and postal fraud...now would you!
- mabhatter, on 08/25/2008, -0/+1If you live in the USA, it's illegal to put anything except mail into mailboxes. Like one poster said below, many boxes have little hooks for fliers and such although the USPS is cracking down on anything attached to an official mailbox. There is some junkmail that is sent loose, but includes one postcard with the postage on it. That is probably what you are not liking.
- marklad2020, on 08/24/2008, -0/+1Every month or so, I dispose of a very large and heavy pile of paper that I keep in a recycling bin in the corner of my home office. 90% of the bulk of this is junk mail. It drives me completely mad that these people just continue to send me this useless crap day after day. What a waste of everybody's time & resources - junk mail should be banned.. I, for one, refuse to buy products from firms that market themselves in this way..
- djAnakin, on 08/24/2008, -0/+1All my junk mail get's any plastic removed and tossed into my compost bin. I'm no hippy, but I do realize what they're doing.
- DrJG, on 08/23/2008, -0/+1On a serious note, with all the problems the planet faces, shouldn't tree cutting be made a serious action not to be indulged in without serious overview and expert decisions for every single case? Or else the warming, the tsunamis, the landslides, the whole carbon problem is going up exponentially and will continue exponentially.
What paper is needed can be made from recycling of cloth and bricks are best for planet for constructing homes anyway. There can be other solutions for other usages too. - mabhatter, on 08/25/2008, -0/+1the post office has awesome service in general when you realize the scope and volume of what they do. A letter tossed in any blue mailbox generally gets across the county in 3-5 days for under 50 cents, and they deliver on Saturday to your house! Neither FedEx or UPS does that without extra charge of way more than a stamp. Without Junk mail padding the mailman's paycheck the post office would have to cut service down to once a week or make most people go to some kind of kiosk or post office box to get mail because it just wouldn't pay. If you count up the pieces of junk mail you'd probably find the cost for first class to be about the same as UPS.
I'd agree we don't need junk mail, but then we'd have to make the choice to have postal service only 2 days a week and pay 5-10 times a much for delivery. This would save massive amounts of fuel and trees though and might be a good idea. - inactive, on 08/24/2008, -0/+1i tried http://www.dmachoice.org/
they want a valid credit card and 'as in all transactions your card might be charged'
ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME - GardenRetreat, on 08/23/2008, -0/+1this is a problem that exists because marketers believe in persistance..that they will wear you down to buy..for me NEVER..But i say this with sadness as I know it will continue at the cost of trees..I recycle to try to offset it a little
- BillE3, on 08/27/2008, -0/+1Well then lets make it like in Russia, junk mail does not exist. You go to the post office to pick up any mail, there are no P.O. boxes. Postal officals can open mail for inspection and keep anything they decide you should not have or they want, of course they have second choice over the federal government and customs officals.
- mabhatter, on 08/25/2008, -0/+1that's the key difference between email spam and junk mail. Junk mail still pays postage to the mailman to be delivered, therefore it may be a hassle, but the mail service is compensated for its delivery and it actually subsidizes real mail.
Email Spam is sent from one machine, often not paid for or from a bot, and then passed out at the expense of everybody in the system. Spam senders do not contribute to operation of the system in proportion to their usage of it. - DrJG, on 08/23/2008, -0/+1Funny, I gave you an up and it went from 0 to -1!
This story is worth repeating until junk mail and tree cutting stops, so the planet can get some health back. - inactive, on 08/23/2008, -0/+1I called Globe Direct, which is the company which does the mailings around Boston and I was told to throw out the flyers if I didn't want to receive them anymore. The point is, that I don't want to contribute to clear cutting and I don't want to have to expend the energy to carry a huge bag of recycling out to the recycling bin on the other side of the complex. All of my bills come to me via e-mail. The only thing I get in my mailbox is my excise tax bill and junk mail. It's very frustrating.
- inactive, on 08/23/2008, -0/+1If you want to find out where your junk mail is coming from, do what I did. I started using the wrong middle initial when I ordered things online. As soon as I got my first piece of junk mail with the wrong initial, I immediately started making phone calls and handing people their asses for sharing my information. It's a fairly easy way to track down who is doing it (just have to remember which initial you are using with each website).
- DrJG, on 08/23/2008, -0/+1It happened again - the digg up and the 0 jumping to -1! Someone setting you up for fall.
Anyway - that is quite a story, but perhaps mine is not bad either - I got called for juty duty, and could have attended and participated, but was too sincere and informed them I was not even a permanent resident let alone citizen. They excused me. (If they had said "oh that is all right, after all you do live here, do some work" - might just have.)
So this is more than just the junk flyer senders, it is more ubiquitous. - DrJG, on 08/23/2008, -0/+1We live in another country now and get the irritating flyers folded in newspapers, and have to pick them up off the floor where they flutter down invariably. With a bad back it is a curse every time.
- inactive, on 08/23/2008, -0/+1I tried to opt out of several weekly distributions (grocery store flyers & coupons for local restaurants) and they actually told me I should just throw it out instead of going through the lengthy opt-out process. I told them, "You don't understand, you are killing trees and the environment and I want nothing to do with your business as a result." Do you think they stopped? Hell no.
- DrJG, on 08/23/2008, -0/+1So to the point accurate, who was the idiot that dug you down I wonder! No - I am serious! Logger, maybe, or junk printer.
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