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Top 5 Reasons it Sucks to be an Engineering Student

blog.wired.com — For many students, earning a degree in engineering is less than enjoyable and far from what they expected. Here are our biggest complaints about the educational rite of passage.

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  • orlyfactor, on 03/24/2008, -7/+2616. No chicks in your classes.
    • zoom1928, on 03/24/2008, -3/+55There are a few, but the vast majority of the time while they're most likely a great person they're not much to look at.
      • TypeEE, on 03/24/2008, -2/+39Or if there was one that is worth to look at, it is crowded with layers of guys.
        • commenter01, on 03/24/2008, -4/+24It? They are usually referred to as "she"...
          lol talk about a self perpetuating stereotype
        • surKaz, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1most of the freshmen are already dating older guys by the time I see em... I see a Trend..
      • novahh, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2I'd say that you should go to my school then, but you'd probably be one of those dudes who stares at my butt when I'm leaning over to write on the board. Thanks, guys, you make getting called to do an example problem that much more awkward.
    • yabos, on 03/24/2008, -1/+27Unless you're in chemical, thats' where most of them go at my school
      • warriorscot, on 03/24/2008, -1/+11Yeah like two per year.
        • Tyr7BE, on 03/24/2008, -0/+950/50 split in chem eng at my school, and the chem girls were always FIT to look at
      • kinerry, on 03/24/2008, -0/+8They want to "save the planet"
      • Batiu-Drami, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1Dugg because I'm in chemical.
    • johnedc, on 03/24/2008, -1/+34When the highlight of the day is getting to class early cause theres a nursing class there before yours, then this should really be #1
      • tgui, on 03/24/2008, -0/+30It was probably the nursing students least fav class for similar reasons.
      • zeroduck, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2Go to MSOE?

        I think my school, Kettering, needs a nursing program. Campus would beautify instantly.
        • surKaz, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1All the Liberal arts and sciences majors have all of 'em.. Engineering.. not so much.. Try not at all.. Maybe that's changing.. can't tell
      • antdude, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3Funny. My university's CS department was next to the nursing department in the same building. Good place for it to be. :) Too bad I didn't get any of those hot female nurses and I am still single and virgin. :(
    • kojaa, on 03/24/2008, -3/+5this is #1 for me anyway.
    • TypeEE, on 03/24/2008, -0/+71#7. Professor who can't speak proper English.
      • vincekiessling, on 03/24/2008, -1/+9Everybody has that one.
      • ZeroNeo, on 03/24/2008, -0/+5or lab technicians (usually postgrad students) that can't even understand what you are asking them
      • bagboyrebel, on 03/25/2008, -0/+1definitely true. I've only had 1 CS TA who actually was understandable. I think some of the TA's know that it's a problem though, one of my classes had the TA apologize for his bad English at the end of a couple classes.
    • d03boy, on 03/24/2008, -0/+14This is even worse when you go to an engineering SCHOOL
    • mulletmusketeer, on 03/24/2008, -0/+54for the few women in engineering: "The odds are good, but the goods are odd"
      • imLissy, on 03/24/2008, -2/+4Now that's not true. I liked the CS classes that were CS + Engineering b/c the Engineering majors were so much cuter than the CS majors. Most of them were dumb as doornails (our school must have had a bad engineering department), but cute.
        • antdude, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2Which school is this?
        • surKaz, on 03/24/2008, -3/+1@ school of "DAD"... Dumb as Doornails... Yay!.. CS sucks.. Engg rocks..
          me
          • bagboyrebel, on 03/25/2008, -0/+1good luck getting your work done without a computer.
    • neko6, on 03/24/2008, -0/+24A girl engineer is like a sea-lion - not a sea and not a lion.

      (I was told this by a girl engineer, mind you).
    • antdude, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2Same with CS classes. :P
      • doshindude, on 03/24/2008, -0/+5Counter-Strike class? Yeah, we all know what it really means.
        • bagboyrebel, on 03/25/2008, -0/+1My freinds and I call playing Counter-Strike "Studying CS". It makes us feel better about not doing the wrok we should be doing.
    • BTraina, on 03/24/2008, -1/+12Thats why you major in engineering and minor in women studies.
    • sevun, on 03/24/2008, -0/+5No women in your classes OR at the job once you get out!
    • reaperhatch, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1http://www.eatliver.com/i.php?n=2302
    • jgzman, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2Actually, the basic engineering course at my school contains at least six really damn hot girls. The class is about 95 students, though. 6/95 is not a good percentage.
    • Sporky023, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3Engineering girls are the best; it is only natural they should be the rarest. I'll take a geek girl over a theater major any day of the week. http://xkcd.com/
    • wishninja, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1ON the bright side engineers always get the best weed!
      • ucg1, on 03/25/2008, -0/+1Damn right. And we also figure out the best ways to consume the weed.
    • Seidoger, on 03/25/2008, -0/+1Yeah but We are, we are, we are, we are, we are the engineers,
      So We can, we can, we can, we can, demolish forty beers to forget about it.
    • notouch, on 03/25/2008, -0/+3On the other hand, being a girl in Engineering isn't as fun as it sounds, 1/3 of the male classmates turn out to be sexists, who don't think you can do anything because you are female.
      1/3 get nervous when talking to a girl, 1/3 don't even know there is a girl in the class. :P
      • Dexterp37, on 04/02/2008, -0/+0Yes, I agree. But I don't think that's going to change anytime soon :(
  • FeartheKnighted, on 03/24/2008, -5/+184***** professors who think their course is the only class you are taking
    • vandy, on 03/24/2008, -4/+24This can be true for pretty much any college course.
      • Shurikane, on 03/24/2008, -1/+21I dunno. I'm at a non-engie college right now and the workload is very appropriate.

        In engineering, we were taught electrical circuits by a foreigner with a doctorate. When he gave us our first homework, he said, and I quote: "I did it myself, and it took me about eight hours."

        Now imagine how long it would have taken a student who formerly knew nothing about the course matter...
        • tektalk, on 03/26/2008, -0/+1So who figured it out in less than eight hours?
        • Shurikane, on 03/29/2008, -0/+1No one.

          When I went to the teacher's box to hand in my semblance of homework, fifteen minutes before due time, I discovered barely enough sheets in it to account for a fifth of the class.

          Took a quick glance, and found that everyone had answered some questions, but no one had answered all the questions.
      • sinrtb, on 03/24/2008, -1/+9I have taken a lot of extra curricular courses and I get twice the GPA for 1/4 of the work in those classes.
    • zeroduck, on 03/24/2008, -1/+12***** profs that give you problems not in the required course books that are also not in the library.

      *****.
    • satanatnmtedu, on 03/24/2008, -7/+21Lame. I heard this complaint while I was an engineering student. It is ***** as are most of those "top 5 reasons". If you are in engineering and you hate math, then you have the wrong major. If you are in engineering and think the homework is too hard, then you are in the wrong major. And, if you are in engineering for the women, then you are definitely in the wrong major.
      • sinrtb, on 03/24/2008, -2/+3Its not that I hate math in fact I love math, however when all of the classes I have taken in the previous 2 years required calculus it get kinda of tedious.
      • whickywhickyjim, on 03/24/2008, -1/+2Maybe it would be harder if you went to a top tier school. I've never heard of new mexico tech.
    • rpebble, on 03/24/2008, -1/+5Maybe, but you're gonna see that in any major. I agree with satanatnmtedu, this list is dumb. I'm a chemical engineering senior, and numbers 2 and 3 are just plain false. As for grade inflation, I'm not even sure that's true, but even if it is...who cares? If you're getting a job as an engineer or applying to grad school, they all know what kind of GPA ranges they can expect, so what difference does it make? Unless you're applying for law school or med school, then you might be screwed, but you probably should have planned for that in the first place. I'm not sure what school the person who made this list went to but I seriously doubt that their experience warrants this much whining.
      • Dissonance, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2Law schools and Med schools are aware that engineering programs have heavier work loads. Admission committees are usually aware of which schools inflate grades and which don't. Even Harvard has had some significant grade inflation over the years. A straight A average at Harvard in 2008 doesn't mean the same as a straight A average at Harvard in the 70s.
    • allengeer, on 03/24/2008, -0/+9I specifically enjoyed profs, right before spring break, with this classic move:
      "Well I hate to give you an assignment over spring break, but I figure all the other professors wont give you an assignment so I can sneak one in. Due Monday morning at 7:45am."
  • chicken101, on 03/24/2008, -11/+6My brother was a biomedical engineering major, suffice it to say I did Chemistry instead of chemical engineering because it seemed like he had no fun.
    • nickmv, on 03/24/2008, -0/+6chem is the exact reason I dropped BME. If chemistry aint your thing and you have trouble in gen chem 1 and 2, organic chem is gonna be absolute hell to learn
    • jgzman, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3I'm doing Chemical Engineering; I just wish they would quit pushing Biology on me.
    • djk21108, on 03/24/2008, -5/+3Reason 6:

      Good chance you'll be shot in class by some crazy asian.
  • shempey, on 03/24/2008, -3/+133Dude in that picture is making life even more difficult by not having a Ti-89.
    • prleet, on 03/24/2008, -19/+1Ti92, better for use, it does 3D, Hellewpackard 48G--Does 3D. Ti-89, its okay but not good enough, its good for checking steps low level maths... ..i feel like a calculator head..
      • JigoroKano, on 03/24/2008, -0/+19The 89 and the 92 are the exact same calculator.
      • vortex22222, on 03/24/2008, -1/+19Ti-89 does 3D graphing.
      • InorganicMatter, on 03/24/2008, -0/+7I hope you're not an engineering student...
      • surKaz, on 03/24/2008, -1/+3Alot of schools don't allow Ti-92s... simply because they look like portable computers...
        The Engineering Teachers know that the 89 can do quite a bit but allow them anyway....
        • sinrtb, on 03/24/2008, -0/+4Also most standardized tests do not allow any calculator with a QWERTY keyboard.
    • mk2ja, on 03/24/2008, -0/+11Eh... at Rose-Hulman, I'd say the majority of people are still using TI-83s and 84s that they got in high school. If we need do anything more complicated, the mandatory freshman laptop includes Maple, which can do almost anything.
      • tidu, on 03/24/2008, -1/+3***** Maple.
        • wishninja, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2What? Maple is awesome! You must be a Mathcad guy right?
        • gvsudahc, on 03/25/2008, -0/+1TI-83 and Maple is all I need. It would take me a year to learn how to use a TI-89. All of our calc classes required Maple for lab.
        • BTraina, on 04/26/2008, -0/+1agreed. ***** matlab too.
      • clockb0x, on 03/25/2008, -0/+1And then you get to upper level ECE classes where the profs don't let you have laptops, so an 89 becomes pretty nice to have. Also, dugg for a fellow Fightin' Engineer!!
    • schnikies79, on 03/24/2008, -4/+1.
    • santaliqueur, on 03/24/2008, -0/+9HP-48GX for me.
      • PJ1967, on 03/24/2008, -0/+5Still have my HP-48G and just did my taxes with it! Bought it back in 1994.
        • santaliqueur, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3I love mine. I don't use it as much anymore, but the Postfix (RPN) Notation is why I love it so much.
      • unique172, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1Hey! I'm not the only one! I teach HS math and I'm not a huge fan of the TI, to be honest.
    • dsl145, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2You called that one correctly... never again will I try to isolate a variable!
    • warriorscot, on 03/24/2008, -0/+9Not allowed them at my uni.
      • iamtherealwoody, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3ouch
      • navster15, on 03/24/2008, -4/+4Same here. These pussies with their fancy graphing calculators, it takes all the thinking out of it. Scientific calculators FTW! :)
        • itsthebrod, on 03/25/2008, -2/+2Okay. Take your 20 minutes and solve your set of equations by hand. I'll be busy getting a solution in half the time with the same amount of "thinking."
    • ElectricC0wb0y, on 03/24/2008, -6/+1Correct me if I'm wrong, but I belive thta the Ti-83 plus does not do complex numbers. Depending on your engineering discipline, this can make all the difference. Other than that the only advantage of the Ti-89 is symbolic math.

      I could have got by grad school with a basic scientific calc that handled complex numbers. Graphing ability did score me a minute a few times in undergrad, but it wasn't anything that I couldn't have done by hand in a couple minutes.

      Matlab et al on the laptop is much more important than a good calculator.
      • kinerry, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1Ti-89s are programmable

        You can put a textbook in there if you wanted to, and they already do your work AND show the steps
        • dalaeth, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2That's why I failed Calc 2. I wrote programs to do the work and show the steps in Calc 1, but never actually learned how do the math itself.
      • bowe, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3it does do complex numbers, you just have to change the mode to a+bi.
      • JackHarkness, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2you're wrong, Ti-83 plus does do complex numbers
    • willy3121, on 03/24/2008, -3/+383+SE ftw. Because the 83 was so popular, there's a boatload of software out there to increase functionality, making it comparable to what can be done with an 89... or at least how much my friends knew how to do with theirs. Mine does complex numbers, solves polynomials, simultaneous equations, and lots of other stuff I haven't checked out yet. Oh, and pheonix, the game that got me through DLD.
      • doshindude, on 03/24/2008, -1/+183 sucks. 84+Silver has about 32x more memory, is faster, has an updated interface and has pretty much replaced the 83.
      • gordystylz, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1good call willy, i love my 83+ got me through middle school, high school and all of my college so far (knock on wood) and yes pheonix rules, check out block dude that got me through HS trig
    • slothlovechunk, on 03/24/2008, -7/+5TI s suck.
      RPN is faster and more intuitive.
      Real engineers use HPs.
      • DeathMote, on 03/24/2008, -3/+1RPN was good for the days when computers didn't have the computational power to perform math how we are used to.

        It's a relic now.

        Programs and calculators should be designed so that it's easy for people to use, not the other way around.
        • slothlovechunk, on 03/24/2008, -2/+1Huh?

          If you did the calculation in RPN, you know you did it right, and you took less time doing it. If you do it algebraically, half the time you sit there seeing if you got your parenthesis in the right place. Even if you can see the whole equation graphically, I guarantee that entering it took longer than me entering it in RPN and I got to control the order of operations and know exactly what I'm doing.

          You enter RPN like you think. Algebraic is hardly intuitive because you are just putting the equation in this black box that the calculator has to interpret and there is a layer of obfuscation.
          • noumuon, on 03/25/2008, -0/+2i find the algebraic method to be far more intuitive. to each their own.
      • allengeer, on 03/24/2008, -1/+2I knew when a calculator thread was starting, that inevitable reverse polish notation guy would show up and declare the superior benefits of 7 8 + 9 1 + / to
        (7 + 8) / (9 + 1)
        I agree with you by the way. :)
      • ryan83189, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1once you go rpn you can't go back again.
    • rpebble, on 03/24/2008, -0/+7The solver function on the TI-89 works like magic, i love that thing.
    • noumuon, on 03/24/2008, -2/+2i'm still using a ti-81 ... of course, i'm also a math major and not a complete tool who can only use a calculator.
      • itsthebrod, on 03/25/2008, -0/+1That's great that your entire major is math. For some of us, math is but a part of our major, and we don't have time to waste on tedious calculations.
    • theneb29, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2I dont know wtf u guys are talking about, they did not let us use any calculators for any of of engineering courses (EE), try doing DFT's, FFT's, Maxwell equations on these. Seriously though, i would assume it would be easier to do it by hand (obviously, no calculators meant easier variables to solve )
    • MxM111, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3I never could understand, why people use calculators for homework when you have PC with programs like mathematica, mathcad, matlab... That series in the picture could be solved in one line in mathematica or mathcad...
      • jjz8706, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1a computer is not quite as easy to carry in a back pack
        • bagboyrebel, on 03/25/2008, -0/+2what kind of engineering student are you if your backpack doesn't have a laptop pouch.
    • cyyip, on 03/24/2008, -0/+0I don't even have a graphing calculating. I just use my scientific.
    • jjz8706, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1as my cal prof says,
      "A Ti-89 is a full fledged citizen"
    • gbro, on 03/25/2008, -0/+2Casio fx-82 super (aww yeah)

      http://os36.grafisis.nl/calculators/pictures/casio ...
    • bagboyrebel, on 03/25/2008, -0/+2The highest level calculator that is guaranteed to be allowed in tests(at least the ones that allow graphign calculators) is the 84. The other ones are nice, but I would rather not have to buy 2 graphing calculators.
    • caponumen, on 03/25/2008, -0/+2Yes, but my slide rule also doubles as a fly swapper and a Ninja dart.
  • anteyekon4myst, on 03/24/2008, -1/+15Waiting for the flood of U Waterloo
    • navster15, on 03/24/2008, -6/+4U of T all the way bitches!
    • Shadosong, on 03/24/2008, -0/+0ahh U of T... i feel bad for u

      waterloo all da way! although 100% agreed with the article
  • Hologram0110, on 03/24/2008, -5/+85The number 1 reason should have been "Sausage fest".
    • d03boy, on 03/24/2008, -1/+226% females at my school.. and trust me, that's only because somewhere along the line we decided to incorporate a nursing degree into our school
      • surKaz, on 03/24/2008, -0/+46%?.. oh my god.. .Freaking transfer....
    • superRoot, on 03/25/2008, -1/+1Agreed
  • chemnerd, on 03/24/2008, -9/+746. Foreign professors that have difficulty with English.

    Also: TI-83? really? That won't cut it in any Engineering field these days.
    • tgui, on 03/24/2008, -0/+20In my ME and CS courses the professors made every effort to stop us from using anything BUT a basic calculator. And definitely NO calculators on tests, ever. I believe I am a better engineer because of this.

      Ohhh, and HP48GX all the way, sound, gray scale and IR transmission (TV remote).. man that was nerd heaven.
      • prleet, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1HP48GX is da best......i used it since I was in 9th grade....lol
    • cawpin, on 03/24/2008, -2/+12Actually, yes, it will. You don't NEED anything more. I had an 86 and didn't use all of it's capabilities. The English thing drove me nuts in a few of my classes. I had a guy fresh off the boat from China in one of my LABS. The first day I actually called him over to repeat what the hell we were supposed to be doing because I couldn't understand what he had said at the front of the room. He got done and I said ok. He walked away and the guy that was my partner said "Thanks for ding that, I had no idea what he said before."
      • satanatnmtedu, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1You don't even need that. I did just fine with a generic calculator ($10 or less - solar). Those special calcs are a crutch that show you really don't understand the material.
    • schnikies79, on 03/24/2008, -0/+10In my math classes(calc I and beyond), we were not allowed to use anything beyond a single line calc so I went for the ti-30xa . For everything else, I used the ti-83.

      Once you get good at it, you can do the math in on paper about as fast as you can punch it in a calc. Beyond that, I just used Mathematica.
      • below413, on 03/24/2008, -1/+3Mathematica ftw.
      • thegreatgazoo, on 03/24/2008, -1/+0What's fun is when you get past Mathematica as an undergrad. I was trying to run some robotics formulas through it and it didn't like them.

        But then 4 equations with 6 unknowns (multiple answers) was fun back then.
    • itsthebrod, on 03/24/2008, -1/+8I'm not sure about what kind tests you all are required to take, but my TI-89 has saved me multiple times on different tests. I'm talking about multi-part problems where one tiny part requires you to solve several sets of equations simultaneously or do complex matrix processes. Without my TI-89, I'd have spent 90% of my time on algebra and never got to the actual test material I'm being tested on!
      • satanatnmtedu, on 03/24/2008, -3/+4That algebra should be second nature by this time. If it isn't, then you are in the wrong major.
        • itsthebrod, on 03/24/2008, -1/+5It's a matter of time. Sure, I could spend 10 minutes solving a large set of equations by hand and then have no time to finish the rest of the problems, or I could let my calculator do the tedious work. By your logic, I guess no engineer should use a calculator or computer to aid them in design work, after all, it should be "second nature."
        • below413, on 03/24/2008, -0/+5If it's second nature then why should we be required to use up test time on it when we should be focusing on understanding how to set up and work through analytical problems? The math is just busy work. The hard part is understanding a problem and setting it up correctly, which is what we are being tested on.
      • BTraina, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1I probably take the same one, except my teacher knows not to let any students use ti 89s. Hence why the averages on my tests are around 40%
        • rpebble, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2We see averages around 40% all the time, and we are usually allowed calculators. The problems should be difficult regardless of whether or not you have a calculator to do the simple math for you.
    • OneLess, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2I've been using a basic Sharp scientific calculator for the past two years and been doing fine. The ability to program or graph would be nice, but it hasn't been essential.
    • kinerry, on 03/24/2008, -1/+6Everything above is programmable and therefore banned
    • BTraina, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1I don't know about you, but im not allowed to use a calculator in any of my engineering math classes. Only in physics and in chemistry.
    • noumuon, on 03/24/2008, -3/+1"TI-83? really? That won't cut it in any Engineering field these days." - ti-81 ftw. learn to do math.
    • casuallyevil, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1Structures and fluids... the integration and differential capabilities of the TI-89 are a lifesaver.
    • macbayboy, on 03/24/2008, -0/+4I don't know about YOU all, but calculators were allowed, but were useless if you didn't know how to solve the problems. Our teachers were more concerned about the steps we took to get the answer instead of the final answer. I probably used my TI-85 more in Stats class instead of my engineering and math classes beyond doing simple math. As I'm remembering, I did use it alot when dealing with matrices, but then we used Matlab mostly for that.
    • tchiseen, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1Holy hell, I'm doing Engineerng at the University of Sydney in Australia, and we aren't allowed programmable calculators ever.
    • bolray, on 04/03/2008, -0/+0I feel the level of calculation depends on what type of engineering you are doing. I have tried my hand in almost everything offered under electrical computer engineering (everything except power including sliding mode controls) and level of computation i needed in controls and communication [needed matlab] was very different compared to solid state devices and photonics [basic calculator if that].
  • deviouskoopa, on 03/24/2008, -9/+34No weeknight parties due to homework loads.
    • cawpin, on 03/24/2008, -7/+8You're an idiot.
    • ClemsonRocker, on 03/24/2008, -1/+31You're doing it wrong
    • fudsak, on 03/24/2008, -0/+9Totally not true.
    • synyster, on 03/24/2008, -2/+3never heard of work hard, party hard(maybe you are too geek)
    • deviouskoopa, on 03/24/2008, -0/+7I don't think I have the strength/time to work hard AND party hard. Some people do... I have to go to my morning classes and take notes and get good grades though, so it is impossible for me. I'm just speaking from personal experience, I'm sure many other engineers have time to party during the week. I still have time to party on most weekends though...
    • MyExSucks, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3it helps when you have class at 1 pm 4 days a week and 2 pm the other day
      • deviouskoopa, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2Yeah I got screwed royally this semester :-/
    • allengeer, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3I was a personal fan of "hard core Sundays"
      Step 1... A round of beer pong (play till you lose)
      Step 2.... A problem from the problem set.
      Step 3.... Repeat from Step 1.
    • egosumliber, on 03/24/2008, -0/+4Key to surviving an engineering major: work hard during the week, party hard on the weekend. repeat.
    • mercurysquad, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1Well.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqNeeoT92gc
      You've gotta find alternatives :P
  • zoom1928, on 03/24/2008, -0/+67#0. Professors that don't speak English!

    At least where I went to school that was the number 1 problem. I had several professors who had trouble with the English words for transistor or resistor or just plain numbers. Considering they taught EE classes, that made attending their classes next to useless.
    • ell0bo, on 03/24/2008, -0/+15My freshman year i had a TA with a incredibly thick Indian accent. I am great at math, but I was having a hell of a time in that Physics because i couldn't get any work done during the lab times. Once i asked him a question, and he asked me a question right back. I had no idea what he was saying, and he kept asking me it. my friends, whom could understand him better the I could, were all laughing. Eventually I just got so frustrated I just said "I have no idea, i'm just stupid ok" and stormed out. Turns out he was asking me for the formula for circumference of a circle, at least I got a B in that class...
      • thegreatgazoo, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3Yeah. A friend of mine didn't realize a 'direvtev' was a derivative until midway through the semester.

        The boofers and comperAters were entertaining.
    • Gerz1219, on 03/24/2008, -0/+4The problem is that it seems vaguely racist and uncomfortable to talk about this, but I think it puts American science and engineering students at an enormous competitive disadvantage. Remember, when that Indian or Chinese professor was an undergrad, he very likely was being instructed in his native language, by native speakers of his language. We have to import these professors because we don't have enough credentialed native-born American professors. In turn, the high number of non-native professors in math, science, and engineering fields is probably a contributing factor to a lot of students changing their major to history or creative writing.
    • noumuon, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3yea... i had a russian professor once. loogra-itim = logarithm apparently...
    • egosumliber, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3I would agree that there are a lot of foreign professors in the EE department (I had to take a couple classes in there), but in mine (Mechanical and Aerospace) its not nearly as bad.
    • IronUvula, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3This is just to prepare engineers for their future co-workers that also will not speak English.

      I did have a Chinese professor in grad school for computer architecture that was constantly talking about "crock screw". It took us several classes before we contextually decided it was "clock skew".
    • sleepygup, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2I guess this should be sorted in the starting classes itself. And if we are taking engineering, I guess most of us will be smart enough to figure out what is being said by context and not get lost every time.
    • pilesAREbetter, on 03/24/2008, -1/+2I had a professor that taught most of my upper level digital EE courses and he had a thick Indian accent and a stutter. Other than him all of my other professors were foreign but spoke understandable English.
  • kojaa, on 03/24/2008, -3/+50professors who think they are geniuses just beacause they graduated engineering.
    • OneLess, on 03/24/2008, -0/+11Ever had a professor who graduated MIT? I've only had 2, but they were both giant dicks.
      • allengeer, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3The one MIT prof I had was a waves and optics guy. He would talk about his big multi THz laser he played with and how amazing it was. He was very pro laser. And every time he tried to use his laser pointer... it wouldnt work. He would have to hit it against the palm of his hand several times. Mr MIT laser man, cant get his laser pointer to work ever.

        Dr. Daniel Mittleman for all that are interested.
      • rpebble, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1I had one who was a great guy, but then again I'm pretty sure he hated it there so who knows...
    • Square47, on 03/24/2008, -0/+10Don't worry. Most engineers think they are geniuses once they get in the real world as well. Plenty of electrical engineers put together shotty fixture schedules and one line diagrams. They throw it out to the bidders and wait for us to tell them that their poor work is incorrect. I have one engineering firm I deal with that will only put a singular occupancy sensor in any room (e.g. gym). They just cover themselves with a footnote stating that manufacture must make sure everything works. Then, they charge US a "release fee" for the CAD file so that we can do THEIR WORK. It’s a freaking racket. I don't know if the mob could come up with a better idea. Code requires sensors on new work. You just put a single diagram in every room you want sensors. Force the factory reps to do your work. Then, charge them for the pleasure. Sorry, but I hate some of the engineers I have to deal with. They have too much ego and power over projects. If you don't endlessly suck up or fix their problems (even when you can prove it is THEIR mistake)....they just write you out of their spec on future work. There is no one to complain to...no ethics board to register your beef with. You just can't sell your products because you won't eat the money it takes to fix their mistake. Sorry if I don’t feel bad for you guys because your teachers aren’t very nice to you.
    • Pake, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2I like the professors who think their geniuses, but when asked about practical uses of what they teach, they have no idea because they lack experience outside of being a teacher. That's one of my biggest pet peeves about the teachers is when they have no real world experience, so the only examples they know how to give are straight from the book.
    • bowe, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3My professors were borderline geniuses.(Well most of them.)
  • schnikies79, on 03/24/2008, -9/+1Hence why I didn't take engineering and went chemistry. More or less the same stuff though except I had a professor that loved to advise, even more he liked teaching.

    No sausage fest either. Half of the chemistry majors and more than half of the professors were female.
  • Brian48216, on 03/24/2008, -1/+59The only one I can agree with is #2.

    Otherwise it comes with the territory. You don't get one of the highest starting salaried majors without sacrificing some here and there.
    • mk2ja, on 03/24/2008, -1/+14Awwww yeeaaahhhh.... engineers FTW!
    • warriorscot, on 03/24/2008, -1/+9Doesn't have to be a sacrifice, Ive been trying to get a cehmical engineering degree for three years now and Ive learned enough that they could make life allot easier by making some small changes and making the aim of the course your learning not your passing tests and assesments at every turn. You could make it allot more enjoyable for students without sacrificing the starting salary at the end of it.
      • trispear, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3Lots of Professors come the "No Pain, No Gain" School of Teaching.
      • below413, on 03/24/2008, -0/+4Engineers need to be held to strict quality standards when it comes to knowledge and problem solving skills, seeing as this is why they are hired by countless companies at high starting wages. How would you suggest that engineers be evaluated if not for tests and assignments?
    • ElectricC0wb0y, on 03/24/2008, -6/+4#2 is BS. All the other points are true to some extent. Grade inflation is only a problem if mommy and daddy are yelling at you because your sister is doing a better job studying say criminal justice.

      Learning to cope with failure and working carefully to avoid it are integral parts of the engineering curriculum. These concepts are also prevalent in other 'hardcore' disciplines like nursing. That's why an engineering degree says more about your work ethic than a business or history degree.
    • below413, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3Yeah #2 is probably the only one that applies for my school. It also sucks here because the ChemE program used to be a 5-year program, but they shortened it to 4 years. Instead of shortening the course load they just made all the ChemE classes worth less credits so you have to take more each semester. That means my Chemical Kinetics & Reactor Design course is worth 3 credits, while my easy-as-***** intro to econ elective is worth 4.
  • lowandgrin, on 03/24/2008, -5/+0It's a good thing they don't have to write book reports...
    "walz" "ovehead"...
    I almost changed to chemical engineering, 6. would have sucked...
  • martoq, on 03/24/2008, -16/+6To continue the list from comments:
    6. No chicks in your classes.
    7. Not a chance in hell of finding a job that will pay well enough to pay back your tuition.
    • NathanielJ, on 03/24/2008, -0/+14#7 goes doubly for any other major, so I don't think it counts.
      • DemonWasp, on 03/24/2008, -3/+3Disagree. My CS Major is actually earning me money - I'm in second year and I have more money now than I did before entering university (despite dropping thousands on shiny things - two new computers). For some reason, CS students just get a ***** of cash up here. I don't understand it, but I like it, and I'm hoping it lasts for a goodly while.
    • ClemsonRocker, on 03/24/2008, -0/+13Speak for yourself... As an engineer comparing myself to my peers who got business or other generic degrees, I can tell you the money is much better as an engineer.
    • mk2ja, on 03/24/2008, -4/+2Haha, false.

      Top 20 paying jobs - http://jobs.aol.com/article/_a/theyre-earning-what ...
      My school's avg starting salary? $56k - http://www.rose-hulman.edu/admissions/facts/facts. ...
      • itsthebrod, on 03/24/2008, -0/+4And you're going to need a much larger average starting salary if you ever plan on paying back that massive and ridiculously overpriced tuition from Rose-Hulman.
    • ElectricC0wb0y, on 03/24/2008, -1/+4The issue with salary comes after a few years of work. A good business major will be making 6+ figures and getting regular 'raises' of some sort as he matures. A good, mature engineer will be lucky to make more than an undergrad unless he expands his education or slides over to the business/management side of things.
      • below413, on 03/24/2008, -0/+4Exactly the reason I don't plan to spend my entire career in a research lab. Truly successful engineers will inevitably shift into more leadership roles and transition into management roles in large corporations or break off and create startups of their own. An engineer who goes into business can achieve far more with the technical background than someone with a basic business degree.
    • below413, on 03/24/2008, -1/+8What are you talking about? Engineers command some of the highest paid starting salaries out there. That's why most disciplines of engineering are infuriatingly difficult.
  • fudsak, on 03/24/2008, -7/+12I'm a mechanical engineering student and that doesn't apply to me even a little. I have a very engaging curriculum, (mostly) great professors and a engineering department that really helps students figure out their career. I knew walking in that their would be a lot of math and bland textbooks. Whoever wrote this sounds like someone who just made a poor decision declaring their major
    • ersatzphi, on 03/24/2008, -1/+13You are one of the lucky ones. I did mechanical as well, and sure I had a few engaging professors but I think most professors fit the stereotypes set forth in this list. You really have to do your research before registering your courses. Ratemyprofessor.com or something.
    • TypeEE, on 03/24/2008, -1/+9You are one in 10s or even 100s
    • d03boy, on 03/24/2008, -1/+7you clearly got really lucky
    • chuckDontSurf, on 03/24/2008, -1/+5Or maybe he's just not a goddamn whiner.
    • physco827, on 03/24/2008, -5/+6You obviously don't go to a very good engineering school then.
      • Jadhar, on 03/24/2008, -3/+1bingo!
      • rpebble, on 03/24/2008, -1/+3I go to a top ten chemical engineering school and I agree completely with fudsak. People need to stop whining so much.
      • fudsak, on 03/24/2008, -0/+4I go to the University of Michigan, rated top 10.
      • busket, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2Actually, it sounds like he goes to a good engineering school, you know, with good professors and a supportive counseling staff.
      • bagboyrebel, on 03/25/2008, -2/+1apparently sarcasm is lost on some people, well I thought it was funny.
    • rpebble, on 03/24/2008, -3/+3Agreed, I'm a chem engineering senior at a top 10 school (if that makes a difference) and this list is dumb. I don't know anyone in my major or any other engineering major who complains about all this stuff.
    • egosumliber, on 03/24/2008, -2/+0Totally agree. It really depends on your school. Smaller, private schools on average have better professors (and easier to access/get to know).
      • rpebble, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1While it does depend what school you go to, I think your generalization about small vs. big schools is off base. I'm not at a small private school, my department has 26 professors, which is a pretty good number, and many of them are exceptional. I've never felt like they were unaccessible or hard to get to know, that's the student's decision more than anything else.
    • helgers7, on 03/25/2008, -0/+1As a fellow ME student, I'd say that this list is pretty accurate. Of course my college stakes its reputation on their engineering graduates, so they will openly tell you that the professors are encouraged to be overly difficult. Their logic being, the tougher the course load, the better the students who do make it through will actually be. Unfortunately this isn't really true. I've seen some people who would have made brilliant engineers just get fed up and switch majors.
    • InsaneOni, on 03/25/2008, -0/+1Not in my experience at all. I'm currently a senior in Mech E and I've considered dropping out multiple times because of how much ***** there is to put up with. Not only that, but once you graduate you're probably going to end up in a boring job designing god knows what. I thought engineering would enlighten me, instead it's mostly just crushed my spirit and made me wish that the credits transfered to another major.

      Not to mention that there are NO hands on classes anymore, everything is behind a computer now (not that I don't like computers).
      • chuckDontSurf, on 03/25/2008, -0/+1"but once you graduate you're probably going to end up in a boring job designing god knows what."
        Yeah, designing something. Who woulda figured, with an engineering degree.
  • ozydingo, on 03/24/2008, -2/+11Dude I don't know about this article-- "lengthy equations with symbols that are different from those used by the professor during lectures." Is that really a problem? Come on. I'll give credit to the grade inflation and partial credit to the textbook point (I've had to use some awful but some terrific textbooks), but the rest weren't really issues at my program at least. I think orlyfactor's comment (first in the list) is more on the ball.
    • warriorscot, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2Can't say it is always a problem for me either althouhgh it can be for certain problems but they are confusingly different but you use them the same way.
    • ozydingo, on 03/24/2008, -0/+5Ah...now what really was confusing was one class where there was no textbook but the instructor gave class notes, and in those notes he would switch what symbols he used without defining them. So in one equation P referred to pressure, and in the next equation in the same section P referred to power. Nothing in the text defined that P now referred to power.
      • eir574, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1I took a waves and optics class once that was being given for the first time using a textbook that was in its first edition. There were proofs in the textbook where a negative sign would appear suddenly in one step, disappear in the next, and then come back again sometime later. Much fun!
  • MioTheGreat, on 03/24/2008, -1/+36Generic "core" engineering courses that have little to do with your discipline. This is really only an issue for electrical, computer, and chemical engineers though. The "core" ***** seems to have pretty important applications for everyone else. (***** you, Mechanics of Solids. If I wanted to know how to build a truss, I would not have picked EE)
    • jbmcb, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1That's why I switched to CS from ECE - I wanted to learn about computers, not how power transmission works, the thermodynamic properties of carbon, or the EM dispersion patterns of a single radiator. After two years of ECE and having two classes that even had a computer in a lab (one of which was a "core" engineering course on basic) I bailed. I just taught myself digital design - it's not that hard. The CS computer labs were run better, anyways.
    • TypeEE, on 03/24/2008, -2/+6Computer engineering was not a bit practical. For hardware, you are not as good as the EE guys, for softwares, you are not as good as the CS guys.
      • MioTheGreat, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1I always figured CPE was for Wireless or Embedded Systems or Network Design
      • zeroduck, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1Yeah, but on average, we have higher starting salaries.

        My school requires you have an internship... and to be honest, you learn more on the job. But then, I work in Systems Engineering, which has turned out to be equal parts of Mechanical, Electrical, Software, and Industrial Engineering.
    • JWhempner, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1The reason you learn all of these extra things outside of your discipline is because you will be forced to work with other engineers. And to do so means you must have at least some idea what their job/discipline encompasses.
      • MioTheGreat, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1I don't know. I'm going into Microelectronics. I'm not sure how many civil or mechanical engineers I'm going to be working with.
    • Dmaulchris, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1Man, its all about mechanical!
    • novahh, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1Aw, but I LIKED Macaulay's method! A lot more than I like DFTs, in fact.

      I do not expect to be building complex logic circuits after my current classes end, so just remember....we have to put up with your stupid circuits just like you have to put up with our stupid trusses (;
  • JedicodeWarrior, on 03/24/2008, -0/+11Most of the problem isn't the assignments or professors, it's our society that does little if anything to promote science education and therefore resulting in a decline of interest of students to get engineering degrees. Engineering, science and medical degrees are some of the hardest to get and students who just want to get a degree are less likely to pursue these majors.
    • TypeEE, on 03/24/2008, -1/+2declining interest only comes from relatively declining pay.
    • sinrtb, on 03/24/2008, -1/+1Not to mention our society discourages geeks from being geeky.
  • scottperezfox, on 03/24/2008, -1/+119As an engineering graduate, here's my translation to the following list:
    5. Text books written by the professor himself.
    4. Teaching Assistants from the deep south ... of India.
    3. No one cares about e.students. Only the business majors wind up on the brochure.
    2. We bust our asses. No one notices.
    1. Machine-like training and the concept of homework in general.

    And a few more for good measure:
    6. 8 am classes are par for the course
    7. Obscurity. No one knows what engineers actually do.
    8. Labs. No one likes labs and the reports are graded as if they are going to save the planet!
    9. Mostly men. In fact, mostly dull, ordinary, tragically normal men.
    10. That fifth year is often required. I can haz extra year's tuition?
    • kojaa, on 03/24/2008, -1/+24#7 very true,
      im a second year communication engineering student and i honestly dont know what communication engineers do.
      • slapded, on 03/24/2008, -0/+25they talk about engineering
        • mahdaeng, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1Correction: They complain about engineering.
      • Kajarago, on 03/24/2008, -1/+42nd year is too early to say you know anything about your major, IMO
      • doshindude, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3time to abandon ship then?
      • allengeer, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3Assuming communication engineering is going to be somewhere around Shannon Information Coding and Analog/Digital communications, you should have probably already taken at least an intro class on this topic by first semester sophomore year.

        Unless of course you want to be a creepy fifth year.
      • theneb29, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3i am a rf engineer and did do a couple of communication classes in college, i had no clue what to do with that information. As far as communication field goes, it all becomes clear once you get your "hands on" experience. meanwhile enjoy doing all that math by hand now, you will be soon feeding it all into simulators and waiting for them to run, while you sip your coffee. if you want a good overall information on communcations as such, i would suggest reading fundamental application notes from agilent, anristu, and other test equipment manufacturers.
    • d03boy, on 03/24/2008, -1/+9i think they communicate between normal people and engineers to establish project requirements
    • DemonWasp, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2Actually, most of those apply to other technical fields. I've definitely noticed #1, 2, 4-10. The only reason I haven't noticed #3 is because people in my program tend to make an outrageous amount of cash during coop, and so we're excellent promotional material.

      At least the jobs we get afterwards suck a lot less.
    • kinerry, on 03/24/2008, -0/+21My girlfriend is an engineer major

      They basically hand you money and a job if you're female
      • rpebble, on 03/24/2008, -1/+5They basically hand you money and a job if you graduate.
    • joebme, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3I agree with your #7. I have yet to find someone outside of engineering to know what a civil engineer actually does. *roll eyes*
      And when I tell these folk that its with infrastructure and such, they still think i just point at a map and have workers magically build a freeway there without any fancy calculations or the need for such a degree.: (
      • LankySmurf, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2Civil engineers make targets, other engineers make weapons
        • rpebble, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2Nonono it goes mechanical engineers make weapons. Us chemical engineers dont design weapons, and haven't for decades, regardless of how many dumb questions people manage to ask to that effect.
    • zeroduck, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3#6 I've been able to avoid 8am's since my freshman year. This term: 11:20 MTRF, 3:35 W. WIN.

      The dangerous thing, as I found out this term, is when you don't have to be into school until 11:20 encourages you to get drunk too often.
      • theneb29, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2we were one of the ***** up universities to have 7:30am classes. walking in the snow (its in the midwest) when the wind chill is 20 below at 7:30am to your classes, priceless!
    • satanatnmtedu, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3Labs are where you learn the real concepts. If you can't do the labs, then you will fail in the real word. IMO, labs should be worth more than a single credit and should be taught by profs.
    • BTraina, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2#10.... yea whatsup with that.
      • Kajarago, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1word, goin on semester #9 myself...to take 2 ***** required core classes (history and philosophy)...
    • notouch, on 03/25/2008, -0/+1I loved Labs, and hated lectures. I learn so much more with hands-on stuff than listening to a boring professor with thick accent.
  • jschaff, on 03/24/2008, -29/+6WTF!!!!! What makes this story SO important that it makes it to the TOP of the front page. THIS is what makes Digg so frustrating. THIS IS A NON STORY!!
    I am an ER doc who majored in Mechanical Engineering with a focus on Biomedical Engineering. I got a straightforward great education. Engineering is the most fair, least political or subjective discipline out there. You know exactly where you stand all the time. You answer the problems right and you get a grade. Very little chance for the teachers to jack with your grade, and no amount of brown nosing will make it better for you.
    What a stupid article about NOTHING!!
    • ClemsonRocker, on 03/24/2008, -2/+3Unless your female...Sucking up works just fine for them in engineering.
    • NathanielJ, on 03/24/2008, -0/+6You majored in Mechanical Engineering and are asking why this was on the *top* of the front page? Were you expecting it to time-warp down to the bottom?

      Also, math is less subjective, for the record.
    • Blowupologist, on 03/24/2008, -0/+8Somebody needs a cookie.
    • warriorscot, on 03/24/2008, -0/+10Look at you super genius at super school. The rest of us engineering students and engineers that went to perhaps good unis like me but had ***** courses where you were driven half mad by too much work and no help kind of have a moderate chip on our shoulders because its ruined some of the best years of our life or at least had a good try at it.

      But your opinion is the only one that should matter of course all engineers are like you so you must be right this is ***** and diggs ***** too.
    • zeroeth, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3Which is more likely:
      (1) A Medical doctor with two undergrads in the engineering field which says statements like: "Very little chance for the teachers to jack with your grade". Or
      (2) A lying 20-something posting comments on Digg.
      the choice is yours.
    • unclefire, on 03/24/2008, -0/+0The point about being subjective DOES come into play on most core stuff -- calculus, hard science, programming, circuits, etc. You get the problem "right" and you get a good grade. Compare that to- I didn't like your opinion of Twain, or Black Elk Speaks-- you get a D.
  • Eldoucho, on 03/24/2008, -7/+1haha funny but also true
  • vincew, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3This pretty much summed up my experience while pursuing my BSME. I'm actually shocked none of this has been fixed since I graduated 10+ years ago. I guess successful business people can go back with credibility and say you need to change the way you're doing things, but a successful engineer never has that chance since a PhD is probably a prerequisite for that distinction.
  • NathanielJ, on 03/24/2008, -1/+11"1. Every Assignment Feels the Same
    Nearly every homework assignment and test question is a math problem..."

    Wired thinks it must REALLY suck to me a math student, I guess.
  • Sunsetter, on 03/24/2008, -0/+22I'll have a B.S. in computer engineering in May and when I started I was very excited about it. Now, I can't wait to be done with this nonsense. I now hate this field and have no interest in it what so ever. The article, as well as the comments about teachers that don't speak English is spot-on accurate.
  • hokie47, on 03/24/2008, -4/+44I will give you guys credit that your major is difficult especially electrical engineering, but I also think you guys spend at least 25% of your time bitching about how hard your major is and how everyone else has easy majors. Look at it this way, you are working a little harder for the next 4 or 5 years so you don't have to have a ***** cold calling sales job for the next 40.
    • prleet, on 03/24/2008, -0/+10thank you i feel appreciated...
    • panicofficer, on 03/24/2008, -6/+8Oddly enough, when I switched from engineering to graphic design I had a much harder time. For once in my life I actually had to work hard to make the grade. With most of my egn classes I could glance at my notes before a test and do fine. With GD you couldn't skimp on a project without it showing.
      • abyss478, on 03/24/2008, -1/+10obviously you weren't EE
      • apache2, on 03/25/2008, -0/+2Obviously you weren't ME either. My tests I usually have to prepare for at least a week in advance.
    • Kajarago, on 03/24/2008, -2/+8You know, I'd say 99% of the time I complain about engineering is because I hear some retarded business or drama major talking about how hard *they* have it...
      • sinrtb, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3How about when the math class in the room before yours is Business calc and they are complaining about how difficult it is.
    • surKaz, on 03/24/2008, -2/+5EEs.. are complainers...
    • allengeer, on 03/24/2008, -0/+14Actually, EEs complain 100% of the time. When we do problem sets, we complain to each other about how unclear the lecture was, or how unclear the text is, or how unclear our minds are...
      When we're in class, we complain while taking notes
      Before class we complain about going to class
      After class we complain about having gone to such a useless class
      In the evening we complain about how much work we have to get done
      After doing the work we complain about how hard that was, or how much time it took
      In our sleep, our brain complains about how convoluted it has become.
      • Shyne, on 03/24/2008, -0/+4You just explained my life.
        Having nightmares about numbers sure is fun.
    • cam0man, on 03/24/2008, -0/+14I'll never forget one of the most bone chilling statements I heard from a roommate. Granted I did Comp Engineering and my roommates were business, business, and poli sci.

      It was during finals week and I thought I was going to kill myself. The poli sci roommate was yelling at his business roommate saying 'I have to study! You're businessn and I'm science, it's A LOT harder!'

      Once I got over shuddering, my own roommate looked to me and said 'the worst part about finals week is that because everyone has different schedules, we can never figure out who to have lunch with!'

      really? that's the worst part of finals?? REALLY??
    • tchiseen, on 03/24/2008, -3/+2Unless you're doing Mining Engineering, noone is hiring. I have mates (more then one) who've graduated with an B.E.Aeronautical and are being paid minimum wage. I'm not exagerating.
    • helgers7, on 03/25/2008, -0/+1Actually, I don't know anyone in my college who wold say that EE is harder than ME or ChemE, and that's including the EE majors I know
  • esbern1, on 03/24/2008, -17/+8i'm in a PhD program for engineering right now and I can tell you most of this is *****. Its written by somebody who writes for ***** wired magazine...sounds like a bitter ex-engineer who wanted to be a liberal arts major to me
    .
  • muzzik, on 03/24/2008, -13/+0I'm an engineering student and so far I've built a torsion bar suspension, a radio, designed a medical pda and also done gait analysis with vicon motion capture equipment (used in most games and some films).
    This stuff aside, I don't see how the books and professors are any more boring than any other subject
    • santaliqueur, on 03/24/2008, -0/+14Bragging is most of your post. Nobody cares.
    • NathanielJ, on 03/24/2008, -0/+20I'm a math student and so far I've built a piece of paper with theorems on it.
    • dattaway, on 03/24/2008, -0/+7I drank lots of alcohol. Seemed good at the time.
  • Seventus, on 03/24/2008, -1/+15All of college is flawed. I received an engineering degree, and I can think of a 100 things to add to that list, easily. I'll say I had good counsel though. As far as calculators go. Engineering students should be forced not to use a calculator for quite a while. Most of the math can be done symbolically. Students are too calculator dependent, myself included. Doing math by hand is good for the brain, and allows a good engineer to come up with rough estimates much quicker.
    • prleet, on 03/24/2008, -1/+2Good point...one i concur.
    • warriorscot, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1Think Ill keep my old fx85 but if you want to work out all the logs and exponentials in every second equation good on you maybe you shoud do math.
    • chrisaug18, on 03/24/2008, -0/+4While I kind of agree, look at it this way: In the field are you really going to sit at a desk crunching numbers? No, your going to plug it into a computer program.
    • fuzzynyanko, on 03/24/2008, -0/+5Once I hit Calculus, the calculator was mostly good for checking work, but not for solving problems.
    • andrewmac44, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2I'm a first year engineering student, and we're not allowed to use any calculators in calculus. :(
    • VAXcat, on 03/24/2008, -0/+5 HA! My borther is a EE at a major company. He's getting toward retirement age and they have assigned him a dozen young engineers to mentor - seems the kids coming out of the school of engines have much to learn these days.. A month ago, he needed a gnarly integration done, something about radiation cross sections of circuit elements in a system. He assigned it to one of his "mentees". THe youngster promptly whipped out his calculator and started looking at it. My brother laughed and said "you're not going to find a button on that thing that will help with this problem". THe mentee replied - "then how do I do it?" My brother told him "you have to think and figure it out". MY brother loaned him the math CRC book with the table of inegrals in it and sent him away. The kid said "tell us again, oh might mentor, how you slew the dinosaurs with your slide rule back in the day".
      • surKaz, on 03/24/2008, -0/+4Dude, there will be smart kids and average kids and so forth in every major.. in every group 9(large enough). ..I'd have to refer to world rankings/ test averages or stuff before generalizing about EEs... or any engineer ..or group

        EE here..
    • rpebble, on 03/24/2008, -0/+5How often do working engineers hear this:

      "I want you to figure out a way to cut costs on this heat exchanger, but I need you to tell me in 90 minutes exactly, you can't use a calculator, and you need to show all your work"

      Not often.
    • unclefire, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1I was an ECE major-- graduated in 88. 90% of what we did was w/out a calculator. It was only used when you actually needed one (e.g. log tables in calcs, non-integer type things). The vast majority of the time, profs would write tests where results had integers in them or easy fractions (e.g. you don't need a calculator). It was a also a good way to gauge if you got it right-- if you ended up with with some gooffy 1.3494843 type of number, chances are you got it wrong.
  • jrskblx125, on 03/24/2008, -0/+5hahaha yeah i think im workin on the five year plan... im on time with 3 semester to go but something tells me a curve ball is in my immediate future.
  • tugger, on 03/24/2008, -0/+25There were two girls on my course, but they were bigger and had more testosterone than most of us guys. I did get the chance to do an exchange in Germany and about 30% of the students were girls, and most of them were pretty and very friendly too.
    • thisoneisunique, on 03/24/2008, -1/+4Where did you stay?
    • tchiseen, on 03/24/2008, -1/+1All girls in Germany are pretty and friendly, it's a known fact.
  • annflower, on 03/24/2008, -1/+9One more reason: http://doseng.org/uploads/posts/1188059784_1187963 ... an Engineering Student
    • surKaz, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2blocked.. .NOOOO!.. yeah,yeah,,. I'm getting my work done too..
    • ryan83189, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1so, electrical or computer?
  • Spetz, on 03/24/2008, -1/+9Some classes like Digital Signal/Discrete Time Analysis are so much harder than the other classes so if you pick it or are forced to take it, your grade suffers a lot. The thing about engineering is there are chicks in your classes, but no HOT chicks in your classes. I've considered doing a 1 year masters or something in business studies when I finish for that very reason... ;)

    Oh yes and Graduate Employers giving the same weighting to a First (1:1) in English/Literature and Engineering...
    • panicofficer, on 03/24/2008, -7/+1Maybe you should have a picked a better school. I was an engineering student, am female, and have been called "hot". Oh, and I'm blond.
      • greenlight2001, on 03/24/2008, -1/+7Pics (naked) or I don't believe you...
      • surKaz, on 03/24/2008, -1/+4problem with a lotta engg students.. call alotta girls hot.. Our standards fall really low at times...
        *Sigh* the life of an engg student..
      • bowe, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3Every girl in engineering thinks they're hot.
    • titopuente, on 03/24/2008, -0/+5I'm taking that class right now with a woman from Romania who has never taught a single class before, much less an engineering class. She has no grasp of English and she has a phobia of examples, apparently. Even if we ask for examples she just keeps writing out more and more theory, and we're lucky if, after an hour and 15 minutes, we've written down a single number that actually signified a number. And everybody has to get a C or better in the class to move on. They just want my (out-of-state) money.
      • greenlight2001, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2Don't worry, they'll scale...
  • prleet, on 03/24/2008, -1/+14"2. Other Disciplines Have Inflated Grades
    Brilliant engineering students may earn surprisingly low grades while slackers in other departments score straight As for writing book reports and throwing together papers about their favorite zombie films." lmao

    One of the biggest problem I seen was how hard EE/math courses is comparable to other classes and does not reflect the intelligence to grade when compared to grades received from other courses or other majors. Often some professors realized this and would curve it heavily. On the other hand, try getting a EE student interested in English
    • sinrtb, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2The sad thing is that I love my math engineering programming etc.. classes but I am a straight C student, I go every day, do horribly on the tests but great on the homework. When i was taking my intro classes (english history econ etc...) I would go a bare minimum if there was not an attendance requirement (Economics had 3 tests and 3 large homework assignments so i only went 6 days that quarter), do only the work that was assigned got A's on the tests and A's in the class.
      I know my career prospects will not care about my GPA nearly as much as financial Aid does. However I will not get to the Career prospects without the Financial Aid.
    • tchiseen, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1It seems to me that my engineering profs actually WANT to give low grades. I had one that said he would never ever give 100% to any student, and in general, it seems that they push for the average on any given assignment to be just above a fail.
  • mattmac24, on 03/24/2008, -5/+20#6 You and ur fellow engineering buddies often drink the local pub dry(NOBODY can drink like eng students)
    • tgui, on 03/24/2008, -0/+27We actually NEED to drink :(
    • d03boy, on 03/24/2008, -0/+4it's true.
    • Scroogl, on 03/24/2008, -4/+4Yeah, I'm an engineering student, and if it's one thing I hate about engineering students, it's that they constantly think they're hardcore 'cos they drink. It's like they really have to prove to everyone that they know how to have a good time, a time that they couldn't embrace sober.
      • tidu, on 03/24/2008, -1/+1Opposite for me, a bunch of my peers act so condescendingly toward people who drink. They have much much more fun sitting at home watching someone play a video game all night :|
      • bagboyrebel, on 03/25/2008, -0/+1not true for everyone. Most of my friends at school are engineering students and almost none of us drink. Doesn't mean we don't have fun, we just don't have to be drunk. I don't have anything against drinking, just the assholes who think it's their business to make sure everyone in earshot knows that they're drunk.
    • synyster, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2this is so true! i am a electronic engineering student, i used to go to pubs everyday during exam period, the result is i actually get better marks in exams, (when you work really hard you actually need to go for a drink to reward yourself - work hard, party hard, and you won't feel guilty about it).
    • thegreatgazoo, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3Yep. We were the only school on campus that was allowed to advertise 'BEvERages' for off campus quasi official parties. As long as we invited the profs.

    • waydee, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2Here the engineering students are all ill looking asian kids, they're not out drinking anyone. Some of them even have matching jackets, they're a bit of a joke.
    • Zap88, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2engineering students have to party hard enough to get all of the derivatives out of there head so they can have fun. Therefore we work hard and party harder.
    • allengeer, on 03/24/2008, -0/+10You can't spell bEEr without double E.
  • EnderMB, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2At my university Engineers are treated like Gods when compared to us Computer Scientists. My university gives no choice of Maths, Software Engineering, or HCI classes for its second years, yet engineers not only get to do it, they get to choose from options. If anyone here is from the UK and is interested in Computer Science do NOT go to the University of the West of England.
  • khail250, on 03/24/2008, -0/+18your job will get outsourced by someone that will for 14 hour days for half your pay. this is why i left engineering and went over to finance last may. My company stopped hiring americans and only hired people from china, taiwan, india and singapore. the indians literally made 3x less for the same role and the singaporians made 2x less than me. And worked harder!!!!
    • khail250, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2woops missed the word "work" just wanted to save my fellow engineers before there were too many comments.
    • blackinthmiddle, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2Unfortunately in today's economy, there are very few jobs that are immune from being outsourced. Teachers, plumbers, nurses, cops, electricians, firefighters...that's about it! It hasn't started really affecting doctors yet, but many major surgeries are considered routine nowadays, regardless of where it's done. Imagine a 55 year old man being told that his heart bypass surgery is covered, but only by the doctor in India!
      • khail250, on 03/24/2008, -1/+2finance cant get outsourced, they buy the person. you don't see a desperate looking dude in finance, is confidence. thank god this will not get outsourced.
        • DeathMote, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2Um, except that finance majors (econ) are a dime a dozen because it's easy ..

          They all seem to have the idea that they'll be working for one of the "big four" and pulling down 100k a year out of college.
        • dbalaski, on 03/26/2008, -0/+1That is because business is still a little touchy at allowing other outside their realm of legal/judicial control access to their primary funds..
          Tight control and audits has always been the policy there , because when they loose that, they've lost it all.
          Only a fool doesn't keep close watch on his $$$ and who has access to it.
  • hydrokayak, on 03/24/2008, -1/+10These are all true for my school. I was an EE major.

    I quit -- and am now a nursing student. Some say I took a turn for the worse -- but I love it.
    • trispear, on 03/24/2008, -2/+8Congrats. I'll be paying you in several years to change my grandfather's diapers:)
      • whickywhickyjim, on 03/24/2008, -2/+1congratulations, your "awesome" engineering job has already been outsourced.
    • rockefeller2, on 03/24/2008, -2/+1Have fun making $17/hour changing diapers, while I make $35 designing electronics.
      • whickywhickyjim, on 03/24/2008, -1/+2have fun figuring out how badly engineering jobs in the real world suck ass, douche.
        • rpebble, on 03/25/2008, -0/+1Such anger...also, I never understand why people add those catchy one word insults at the end of your comments, as if they couldn't speak for themselves.
        • rockefeller2, on 03/25/2008, -0/+1You can argue it all you want, but it's a capitalist society and all jobs suck. Why not whore yourself out to make the most you can, so you can reach financial freedom that much sooner.
          • whickywhickyjim, on 03/25/2008, -0/+1what's sad is you'll (hopefully) eventaully discover someday that you can make much more money doing just about anything. and you'll end up envying people everyone that had fun in school studying other subjects that don't suck. maybe you'll figure that out after you check schematics at lockheed martin for twenty years.
      • nexxau, on 03/25/2008, -0/+1I was wondering how long it would take before an eng student started putting ***** on somebody because they don't do engineering. Money isn't everything.

        It's not only grades that are inflated, it's egos too.
  • daxsymbiont, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2The Internet as a source is excellent only for Computing courses, because they simply developed the internet and it's their realm.

    Engineering students are still in the 90s-80s in that regard. A few internet sources, most are on old books. Not just books, most of the information is still in the 80s, 70s and back books.

    Yeah, consider yourself lucky if you're on computing courses.
    • allengeer, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2I know at my university, every book I had was written year 2000+ and most of them were online. Except for analog electronics. That class was tought by a fossil. And he used a 1992 text.
      (http://cnx.org)
  • ucg1, on 03/24/2008, -0/+7I got an B.S. in Computer Engineering and I loved it. Yeah, there were one or two bad professors, my advisers sucked, but that's college for you. Once I got all the core requirements out of the way and got to concentrate on computer-related classes it was extremely interesting and fun. Of course it helps to be interested in the subject matter. I was learning more about what I do for fun, and now I make a living off it.

    College students need to quit being pussies (they were pussies when I was in school 10 years ago too, so its not just this generation), especially engineering students. Engineering students may actually be challenged by their coursework, unlike some other majors, but once you've actually earned your degree it's actually something to be proud of and something that will actually bring you solid job opportunities. Can't say the same for many other degrees that are easy to achieve and almost completely useless in actually getting you a job.
    • blackinthmiddle, on 03/24/2008, -0/+3I still remember a speaker coming in once and he told us that 95% of us would not get jobs in our chosen profession. We all looked at him with horror! Then he explained how with a degree in engineering the doors were wide open and you could do anything. I had two jobs in mechanical engineering out of college, but today, I program.
    • InsaneOni, on 03/25/2008, -0/+1The problem is that most of my engineering professors make their classes hard by expecting us to know stuff that was never taught in our prerequisites. Most of my proffs are so out of touch with with the curriculum that they think our linear algebra class actually taught us theory, WRONG. So many of my classes consist of the professor talking vaguely about something or other and then expecting us to know what we're doing after not even teaching the material in the homework (or on the tests for that matter).
    • caponumen, on 03/25/2008, -0/+1Good points.
      If you are not excited about the possibilities an engineering degree avails, then things are going to be more difficult and maybe impossible.


  • daxsymbiont, on 03/24/2008, -3/+1btw I think this person wanted an art school.
  • tomjm5000, on 03/24/2008, -4/+3What happened to never having sex?
  • tommy0486, on 03/24/2008, -6/+4#6. You're a nerd.
  • thespiff, on 03/24/2008, -0/+43Four words: Minor in Political Science.
    1) Hot girls
    2) 18 credits worth of GPA boost

    Worked for me.
    • andyrunner, on 03/24/2008, -1/+2Poly Sci Minor FTW
      I'm in a sausage major full of nerds and douchebags and taking a few poly sci classes was a lifesaver
  • captric, on 03/24/2008, -1/+18Engineering has always been a hard row to hoe, but you can basically get a job anywhere doing most anything. Everyone recognizes engineering and science majors usually have good analytical minds and can learn and accomplish any task you give them from sales to brain surgery. Its the art history and archeology majors, foreign language majors and business majors that have a difficult time in the job market.
    • cadmiumpaint, on 03/24/2008, -4/+3i'd disagree...there will always be that guy from a third world country who can crunch huge numbers for 5 cents an hour. Creatives, conceptual thinkers and leaders are the ones who will be in demand. Engineering and Science can be outsourced. Creative thinking can't.
      • bowe, on 03/24/2008, -1/+4engineering is creative thinking.
        • cadmiumpaint, on 03/24/2008, -2/+1its different kind of thinking. The scientific method and design are very unrelated things.
    • captric, on 03/24/2008, -1/+7You are talking about innate qualities that are found as often in engineers as the overall general population.Engineers don't crunch huge numbers - that is mathematicians and you cant outsource engineering projects such as Airplanes, Highway Tunnels and Bridges, Space Programs, Automobiles, Petrochemicals, etc. Engineering and Science will never be outsourced.....sewing yes, tech support yes, but never engineering and science.
      • Badger1492, on 03/27/2008, -0/+0Never be outsourced? Are you kidding? It is happening right now. Our in-house mechanical engineering position was outsourced to China just last month. All the things you mention are currently being outsourced.
    • unclefire, on 03/24/2008, -1/+6@cadmiumpaint: Sorry you only get partial credit for that answer....

      Good engineers and software people are VERY creative. One could argue that it is just as creative as any of the pseudo-sciences. Engineering is the application of science to solve problems in a creative way.

      Sure there are engineers/programmers that should just stay in their cube and have jolt and cold pizza thrown at them. The value-add folks are the onces who can come up with solutions and communicate with non-engineering people.

      Now, on the flip side, all those marketing "creative thinkers" are quite often the onces coming up with crap engineers pull their hair out to try and make work. It's those, who don't have a clue on how things work, that want us to "make a baby with 9 women in 1 month". "What do you mean you can't have that software written in 1 month, put more people on it".

      Lastly, one of my favorite sayings when I hear complaints on "story problems".

      Life is a story problem
      • cadmiumpaint, on 03/24/2008, -3/+1I think this is a back and forth argument. The programmers will argue that without them the creatives are nothing but an idea. The creatives argue that without them they have lines of functionless code. Its very very very rare to meet a person who can do both.

        I've never met a programmer who could actually design a website.....and i mean more than just plugging in values into a wysiwyg interface. I mean someone actually designing the interface and doing all the programming stuff too.

        I disagree that engineers and software programmers are highly creative people. From my experience software and huge web corps have creative and programming teams. The two talk to each other, but its the creatives that make all the choices. The programmers just figure it out. Its the responsibility of the creatives to understand some basic limitations....but honestly....from a creative p.o.v. finding someone to do the work is a dime a dozen. Production is the most disposable and replaceable part of a team.
        • bagboyrebel, on 03/25/2008, -0/+1the creativity that programmers have doesn't have to be about design, it's usually more about implementation. They are creative about how they approach what they are given, how they make the program more efficient, etc.
  • itsthebrod, on 03/24/2008, -0/+12I enjoy my major (mechanical) but all too often, a class that I'm looking forward to taking ends up being torture due to having crap professors who spend the entire lecture either copying the examples and equations straight from the book onto the board (thanks, remind me again what the point of coming to this class was if I could just stay at home and look through the book myself?) OR even worse, those who spend an entire hour and 15 minutes deriving equations. Seriously, why can't class time be used towards EXPLAINING the concepts (and not just with equations) and working example problems NOT already in the book? The few teachers I've had who have taught class this way have made a much bigger impact on me and I still remember various things from those classes because I actually still paid attention.

    If there are any teachers reading this, know this: every time you go into deriving an equation, I'd say a good 90% of your students immediately tune out until a final equation is written on the board with a rectangle around it. Skip it, especially if it's in the book already. That time could have been much better spent just explaining the concepts and assumptions the formulas make.
    • chilledcynicism, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2Aerospace engineering here... And I have the same exact problem with a few professors pretty much slapping EXAMPLE problems from the book onto the board. I pretty much stopped going to their classes and use my friends to turn in homework and learn when to show up for tests.
  • carrotmadman6, on 03/24/2008, -7/+1Stupid points... (except for the girls)
    If there weren't engineers, no one would have Dugg this... (Digg wouldn't exist).

    Btw I'm a Mechatronics student (aka Robotics).
    • Kajarago, on 03/24/2008, -1/+3Robotics major?
      I call BS, sir.
    • bagboyrebel, on 03/25/2008, -0/+1The article isn't complaining about engineers, it's engineering studnets complaining about the bs they have to go through in order to graduate.
  • priegog, on 03/24/2008, -0/+7I think number 2 is the biggest wrongdoing when facing real-life resume building and job hunting. It's a problem that's shared with a few other majors, including medicine. Dunno what the solution would be, but it definitely needs fixing. On a less serious note, I'm tired of my auntie saying things like: "look at your cousin! at this pace he'll be graduating suma cum laude... maybe he can give you tips to better use your study time" ARRRGGGGGG!!!!!
    • d03boy, on 03/24/2008, -0/+2aha yeah. My cousin has been taking child education classes and other BS stuff and bragging about her 3.5
  • blackinthmiddle, on 03/24/2008, -0/+9I got my degree in mechanical engineering and definitely experienced number 2 (on the list, that is!). We had one professor who said, "I'm not interested in finding out if you learned the course material. I want to separate the geniuses from the average students." Then you have the dicks who feel that *nobody* was smart enough to get an A. When I took linear algebra and vector calculus, I ran into such a dick. As? Zero! Bs? 2 (I got one of them). Cs? Four. Everyone else? F! Now this was a small class of about 20 students so maybe we just weren't good enough. However, he also had THREE third year calculus classes, over 100 students total. As? Again, ZERO!

    There was one professor (can't even begin to spell his name) who was even worse. Thank God I never had him. Guys would come in with 3.75+ gpas and would walk away ECSTATIC to get a D in his class. It was a mandatory class taught once a year and he'd routinely fail 95% of his students.
    • d03boy, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1i wish every teacher was consistent with grades
    • Kajarago, on 03/24/2008, -0/+5***** prof's, but ***** administration that doesn't fire these assholes.
      • unclefire, on 03/24/2008, -0/+1One word-- Tenure....

        My "everybody fails" class was a 400 level Electromagnetic fields and waves. Most tests had a top score in the D range-- it was curved of course, but still.
    • apache2, on 03/25/2008, -0/+1*****, D's at my univ. = Retake class
    • bagboyrebel, on 03/25/2008, -0/+1A lot of teachers try to pass the blame to the students. the teacher in my physics class is in her first year teaching here, and on the first midterm the average was low Ds, so she asks why we aren't listening to her.
  • warriorscot, on 03/24/2008, -1/+4